drug safety
rpaul
>>I have a few things to say. I don't know if any of the things I am goingto say are actually at odds with much in the previous post.>>
We disagree immensely.
>> I know Ihave had numerous (when young) experiences of just missing out on being
drugged by my own paranoid tendencies, cookies, punch, bottles of beer,
I always was paranoid at the right moment on qt least 4 separate
occasions. Drugs didn't agree with me...except alcohol which I
absolutely loved at first drink. That being said......<<
Glad to hear of your credentials. I too have had much experience, with
friends, relatives, and I've counseled.
<<Most people who experiment with drugs (in the broadest definition of
drugs e.g. nicotine, caffeine, alcohol,) do not become addicted. Of all
of the available drugs nicotine is the most addictive and dangerous in
terms of health consequences. Alcohol would come second. "Hard" drugs
do not come close to destroying as many lives as nicotine and alcohol.<<
This is terribly untrue. It has now been proven that cocaine is addictive.
Acid is horrifically dangerous. Heroin is addictive...
Nevertheless, my topic wasn't on "addiction". However, I have known of
many many high school and college students, who died on their first try -
healthy (not heart problems or asthmatics. Athletes were some.
One experience with acid can result in flashbacks for life.
<<Inhalants are very dangerous.<<
Glad you agree.
<<Addicted individuals who are unable to deal with their addictions are
often people who have histories of physical, mental, emotional, and/ or
sexual abuse which contributes to their addiction problems.<<
This is grossly untrue! Again, many casual uses lead to addiction -
physical addiction (not mental). I've known adults who will admit to being
raised in as fair a fashion as their siblings, and did not suffer any of
the things you sight.
Nevertheless. Furthermore, it has been proven that certain chemical
makeups are more prone to certain addictions than others (not all cases,
some).
<<There are strong puritanical, anti-pleasure, Calvinistic currents within
some of the anti-drug thinking that currently holds sway with many
people. This confuses the issue and makes it difficult to educate
people as to the real dangers of drugs.>>
I am far far from anti-pleasure. I thank God for the example he used me as
in college to show friends that they could have a wonderful and better time
without drugs and alcohol!
I pray to the good Lord, that my son find pleasure in life and health, and
the joy - not in drugs.
Those who chose the advice I mentioned fine. Those who don't, fine. I for
one am GRATEFUL for all that my father taught me about drugs.
Incidentally, as a college student, I met many many students who began
using drugs recreationally, not out of psychological problems. I know of
some who became addicted; some who had braindamage from sheer pleasure use
(not addicted in any way). Some die; some quit.
<<Generally people who come from intact, functional families (not a huge
number) don't have major drug problems. Of course many people who come
from grossly dysfunctional families don't think that they do because
mystification is a common phenomena in dysfunctional families.>>
Not true. And again, "casual" "recreational" use has many many tragedies.
<<Children have been lied to about the nature of drugs, drug use,
addiction in the same ways they have been lied to about the nature of
learning, education, and things as basic as "feelings". This greatly
increases the risks of them throwing out the rational cautions with the
silly hogwash.>>
My father did not lie to me, nor do I lie to my son. I pray to God he
knows he can enjoy life far and safely with the joy of the Lord and the
life He has given us, and that drugs could never offer this pleasure, and
they are dangerous.
As for alcohol, I do not say folks should not drink. However, when they
do, they need to be taught NOT to drink and drive. I've know of children
killed by a drunk driver, out drinking for the "first time". There's a lot
to be said for first time users of drugs and alcohol.
I would pray that parents would teach their children not to use drugs.
Furthermore, I recall my parents telling me as a teenager: if I ever wanted
to smoke cigarettes, I was NEVER to take one from a friend. They would buy
them for me. This was told to me right after they found out I had tried
smoking. I had never smoked again. Nevertheless, I am grateful for what
they taught me, and for the Lord's protection. In this case, I've never
seen in personally, but have heard reliable sources (and my father being a
police officer and one major source, and none more honest than he, never
exaggerated or lied about what he saw) aside from my many first hand
experiences as a teacher, councilor and friend, that folks lace cigarettes
and than pass them on to friends.
I find it very sad that you link "anti-drug" with "anti-pleasure".
Actually, the opposite is true. My dh was a very strong cocaine user years
ago. He did not come from an "abused" family. He can tell you that true
pleasure comes when you have a good time with your full faculties
functioning, and not downed with drugs.
Diane
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
>We disagree immensely.My goodness! What was that all about? I was under the impression that we
>Diane
were having a friendly discussion here. People are free to have diverse
opinions aren't they? Everyone's experience in life leads them to draw
certain conclusions about things based on what they have directly learned.
Everyone has a different life and different experiences, so naturally we
all have differing opinions.
In MY opinion, strongly disagreeing with someone is no reason to go on a
tirade, nor unsubscribe. Ah well, some folks cannot handle diversity of
ideas or any sort of debate.
Nanci K.
Joel Hawthorne
goodness...again.
I think she's gone but for the record....
This is terribly untrue. It has now been proven that cocaine is
addictive. Acid is horrifically dangerous. Heroin is addictive...
Yes of course heroin and cocaine are addictive. Yes one experience with
psychedelics can result in lifelong problems.
<Addicted individuals who are unable to deal with their addictions are
often people who have histories of physical, mental, emotional, and/ or
sexual abuse which contributes to their addiction problems.<<
This is grossly untrue! Again, many casual uses lead to addiction -
physical addiction (not mental). I've known adults who will
admit to being raised in as fair a fashion as their siblings, and did
not suffer any of the things you sight.
There are certainly people who use drugs casually who become addicted.
As for self reporting as a means of getting a clear picture of a persons
history it leaves much to be desired. I recall one individual telling
me about her model childhood telling me that I might get to meet her
mother who would be visiting her in hospital if they could get a matron
as she was doing time for murder. However there are of course people
from pretty stable loving families who have problems with addictions.
Nevertheless. Furthermore, it has been proven that certain chemical
makeups are more prone to certain addictions than others
(not all cases, some).
We agree. some people are more prone to addiction than others.
<<There are strong puritanical, anti-pleasure, Calvinistic currents
within
some of the anti-drug thinking that currently holds sway with many
people. This confuses the issue and makes it difficult to educate
people as to the real dangers of drugs.>> I still stand by this
statement although certainly people can and do find enormous pleasure
and joy in living completely drug free.
Incidentally, as a college student, I met many many students who began
using drugs recreationally, not out of psychological
problems. I know of some who became addicted; some who had braindamage
from sheer pleasure use (not addicted in any way).
Some die; some quit.
Yep I agree lots of people use drugs recreationally, those with
problems fare less well in terms of addiction. Yep some people brain
damage themselves from drug use.
My father did not lie to me, nor do I lie to my son. I pray to God he
knows he can enjoy life far and safely with the joy of the Lord
and the life He has given us, and that drugs could never offer this
pleasure, and they are dangerous.
Some people maintain that God created drugs for the use of his people.
I find it very sad that you link "anti-drug" with "anti-pleasure".
Actually, the opposite is true. My dh was a very strong cocaine
user years ago. He did not come from an "abused" family.
Same problem as above. People have a hard time recognizing abuse when
they see it. There are many "normal" ways of raising children which are
horrendously abusive. Alice Miller writes extensively on the difficulty
that people have with identifying the abuse to which they are subjected.
Again putting it all in the big perspective. Many, many thousands more
people die each year from tobacco related illness than from all of the
other drug related illnesses, overdoses, sudden deaths, etc. combined.
60,000 people in Canada alone compared with about 1000 deaths directly
linked with drug use. The illness related deaths connected with drug
use is higher but can't hold a candle to the big legal killer, champion
of premature death in the world. Tobacco.
We do disagree immensely. I can live with this. I do consider that you
may be right in your view. I don't think so but I have changed my mind
on a number of subjects on a number of occasions.
rpaul wrote:
best wishes
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
I think she's gone but for the record....
This is terribly untrue. It has now been proven that cocaine is
addictive. Acid is horrifically dangerous. Heroin is addictive...
Yes of course heroin and cocaine are addictive. Yes one experience with
psychedelics can result in lifelong problems.
<Addicted individuals who are unable to deal with their addictions are
often people who have histories of physical, mental, emotional, and/ or
sexual abuse which contributes to their addiction problems.<<
This is grossly untrue! Again, many casual uses lead to addiction -
physical addiction (not mental). I've known adults who will
admit to being raised in as fair a fashion as their siblings, and did
not suffer any of the things you sight.
There are certainly people who use drugs casually who become addicted.
As for self reporting as a means of getting a clear picture of a persons
history it leaves much to be desired. I recall one individual telling
me about her model childhood telling me that I might get to meet her
mother who would be visiting her in hospital if they could get a matron
as she was doing time for murder. However there are of course people
from pretty stable loving families who have problems with addictions.
Nevertheless. Furthermore, it has been proven that certain chemical
makeups are more prone to certain addictions than others
(not all cases, some).
We agree. some people are more prone to addiction than others.
<<There are strong puritanical, anti-pleasure, Calvinistic currents
within
some of the anti-drug thinking that currently holds sway with many
people. This confuses the issue and makes it difficult to educate
people as to the real dangers of drugs.>> I still stand by this
statement although certainly people can and do find enormous pleasure
and joy in living completely drug free.
Incidentally, as a college student, I met many many students who began
using drugs recreationally, not out of psychological
problems. I know of some who became addicted; some who had braindamage
from sheer pleasure use (not addicted in any way).
Some die; some quit.
Yep I agree lots of people use drugs recreationally, those with
problems fare less well in terms of addiction. Yep some people brain
damage themselves from drug use.
My father did not lie to me, nor do I lie to my son. I pray to God he
knows he can enjoy life far and safely with the joy of the Lord
and the life He has given us, and that drugs could never offer this
pleasure, and they are dangerous.
Some people maintain that God created drugs for the use of his people.
I find it very sad that you link "anti-drug" with "anti-pleasure".
Actually, the opposite is true. My dh was a very strong cocaine
user years ago. He did not come from an "abused" family.
Same problem as above. People have a hard time recognizing abuse when
they see it. There are many "normal" ways of raising children which are
horrendously abusive. Alice Miller writes extensively on the difficulty
that people have with identifying the abuse to which they are subjected.
Again putting it all in the big perspective. Many, many thousands more
people die each year from tobacco related illness than from all of the
other drug related illnesses, overdoses, sudden deaths, etc. combined.
60,000 people in Canada alone compared with about 1000 deaths directly
linked with drug use. The illness related deaths connected with drug
use is higher but can't hold a candle to the big legal killer, champion
of premature death in the world. Tobacco.
We do disagree immensely. I can live with this. I do consider that you
may be right in your view. I don't think so but I have changed my mind
on a number of subjects on a number of occasions.
rpaul wrote:
>--
>
> >>I have a few things to say. I don't know if any of the things I am
> going
> to say are actually at odds with much in the previous post.>>
>
> We disagree immensely. <snip>
> Diane
best wishes
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Joel Hawthorne
Did you think it was a tirade? I think I upset her and she disagreed
immensely. And maybe when she cools off (if she was hot under the collar)
she will be back. I think I may have touched a sensitive area.
When I get really ticked off I try to reflect on what is bugging me
especially if I feel it personally.
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: November 14, 1999 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] drug safety
immensely. And maybe when she cools off (if she was hot under the collar)
she will be back. I think I may have touched a sensitive area.
When I get really ticked off I try to reflect on what is bugging me
especially if I feel it personally.
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: November 14, 1999 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] drug safety
>From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
>
>>We disagree immensely.
>>Diane
>
>
>My goodness! What was that all about? I was under the impression that we
>were having a friendly discussion here. People are free to have diverse
>opinions aren't they? Everyone's experience in life leads them to draw
>certain conclusions about things based on what they have directly learned.
>Everyone has a different life and different experiences, so naturally we
>all have differing opinions.
>
>In MY opinion, strongly disagreeing with someone is no reason to go on a
>tirade, nor unsubscribe. Ah well, some folks cannot handle diversity of
>ideas or any sort of debate.
>
>Nanci K.
>
>>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
>