Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] how do I handle pressure to control - was Tools of c...
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/02 1:18:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
ghal9720@... writes:
Second, I wonder how a therapist can ask you to keep the kids out of the
issue of homeschooling, when the kids are the issue!? It sounds like the
therapist is already judging you (although, we don't have the other two sides
of the story) and that isn't her job. Her job is to help you and your husband
learn to communicate with each other, so you can learn to work through your
problems.
I would gather a good list of books and web sites that deal with unschooling
and non-coercive parenting and give this to the therapist and your husband at
your next session. I would tell them both that you would be more than willing
to discuss their concerns after they have read a few selections from your
list. Because you feel that the discussion would be more productive after
everyone is more informed and on the same page with these issues. You should
probably go over the list as well and be able to present your *arguement* in
a clear, concise manner, without being defensive.
I would also try looking into finding a therapist who is open and supportive
of attachment, non-corecive parenting and alternative education philosophies.
Do you guys see her together only, or do you each meet with her seperately
and then together? Years ago, when Darin and I were having problems, we saw a
therapist who would meet with us for about 5 minutes or so each, at the
beginning of the session and then we would all go in together. As we learned
to air our differences without all the *he said she said* crap, we didn't
meet separate as much. It was a huge help to be able to articulate what was
bothering us without the other sitting there making the typical *noises*
(sighs, snorts and groans) and the angry body language (crossed arms, raised
eyebrows, tapping feet, rolling eyes) And the therapist didn't comment then,
she would wait till we were together and present the problem in better words,
to the other person, than we knew how to use at the time.
Hope this helps, FWIW.
Good Luck! :o)
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ghal9720@... writes:
> When I couldn't answer the questionFirst, I hate to hear you are feeling that way, but I really understand.
> because of the ambiguities - particularly her desire to "leave the
> children out of the issue" and I became annoyed with her insistence she
> ends up telling me that it sounds to her that I have made the
> homeschooling choice because of my own experiences and that I am afraid
> to compromise with my dh because of a control issue relating to the way
> my father was! At the end of that session she intended to "consult"
> with her colleagues and now I'm wondering what all she wants to consult
> on, and I hate the paranoia of wondering if she is checking out whether
> and how to interfere with our (boys & I) educational choice!
>
> I'm feeling vulnerable and uncertain
Second, I wonder how a therapist can ask you to keep the kids out of the
issue of homeschooling, when the kids are the issue!? It sounds like the
therapist is already judging you (although, we don't have the other two sides
of the story) and that isn't her job. Her job is to help you and your husband
learn to communicate with each other, so you can learn to work through your
problems.
I would gather a good list of books and web sites that deal with unschooling
and non-coercive parenting and give this to the therapist and your husband at
your next session. I would tell them both that you would be more than willing
to discuss their concerns after they have read a few selections from your
list. Because you feel that the discussion would be more productive after
everyone is more informed and on the same page with these issues. You should
probably go over the list as well and be able to present your *arguement* in
a clear, concise manner, without being defensive.
I would also try looking into finding a therapist who is open and supportive
of attachment, non-corecive parenting and alternative education philosophies.
Do you guys see her together only, or do you each meet with her seperately
and then together? Years ago, when Darin and I were having problems, we saw a
therapist who would meet with us for about 5 minutes or so each, at the
beginning of the session and then we would all go in together. As we learned
to air our differences without all the *he said she said* crap, we didn't
meet separate as much. It was a huge help to be able to articulate what was
bothering us without the other sitting there making the typical *noises*
(sighs, snorts and groans) and the angry body language (crossed arms, raised
eyebrows, tapping feet, rolling eyes) And the therapist didn't comment then,
she would wait till we were together and present the problem in better words,
to the other person, than we knew how to use at the time.
Hope this helps, FWIW.
Good Luck! :o)
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mica
I've picked up on non-coercive parenting from TCS list years ago,
unschooling discussion lists and gleanings from a multitude of other
topic books. What books are a best reference for this parenting
philosophy (that make it clear that it is not the dismissed
"permissive/passive" parenting).
Mica
ghal9720@...
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
unschooling discussion lists and gleanings from a multitude of other
topic books. What books are a best reference for this parenting
philosophy (that make it clear that it is not the dismissed
"permissive/passive" parenting).
Mica
ghal9720@...
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
Betsy
**I've picked up on non-coercive parenting from TCS list years ago,
unschooling discussion lists and gleanings from a multitude of other
topic books. What books are a best reference for this parenting
philosophy (that make it clear that it is not the dismissed
"permissive/passive" parenting).**
I'm not up on all the details, because I've decided that I don't
subscribe to the main TCS idea... BUT...
I think it would probably help you with the therapist and maybe your
husband if you call it "looking for win-win solutions" and "creative
problem solving". (Popular American buzzwords. You may have to
translate them into your local lingo, but I hope you can get my drift.
Use really nice-sounding psychologist speech if you can. It takes away
one of the psychologist's most effective weapons. <g>)
It's over-simplified and maybe a bit misleading but you could describe
TCS as looking for a solution that meets everyone's needs. [1] Then,
if such a solution can't be found, a **compromise** would be reached.
(Flatter the therapist a little by sounding like you are incorporating
her ideas.) I would downplay the idea that compromise would almost
never be required. I don't think she's likely to believe that.
Betsy
footnote [1] I think this idea, finding a solution that meets all
needs, can be philosophically connected back to what the therapist was
trying to change/fix about your problem solving process with your
husband. I'm guessing, since you said that things are messed up, the
two of you **don't** work together constructively to find mutually
satisfactory solutions to stuff -- right? Does he not "take you
seriously"? Or do you not take him seriously? Does he start right off
the bat yelling, or does he aggravate you so that you end up yelling in
one minute flat? (Don't answer my questions, I know that's personal.)
But you WISH you could successfully work stuff out with him -- right?
Or do you just think it would be tons easier to be single? (Don't
answer that either!) I think the therapist, at least somewhat, supports
your desire to have interpersonal differences solved in a respectful
way. I think, like Sandra pointed out, that process may be what the
therapist wants to focus on.
unschooling discussion lists and gleanings from a multitude of other
topic books. What books are a best reference for this parenting
philosophy (that make it clear that it is not the dismissed
"permissive/passive" parenting).**
I'm not up on all the details, because I've decided that I don't
subscribe to the main TCS idea... BUT...
I think it would probably help you with the therapist and maybe your
husband if you call it "looking for win-win solutions" and "creative
problem solving". (Popular American buzzwords. You may have to
translate them into your local lingo, but I hope you can get my drift.
Use really nice-sounding psychologist speech if you can. It takes away
one of the psychologist's most effective weapons. <g>)
It's over-simplified and maybe a bit misleading but you could describe
TCS as looking for a solution that meets everyone's needs. [1] Then,
if such a solution can't be found, a **compromise** would be reached.
(Flatter the therapist a little by sounding like you are incorporating
her ideas.) I would downplay the idea that compromise would almost
never be required. I don't think she's likely to believe that.
Betsy
footnote [1] I think this idea, finding a solution that meets all
needs, can be philosophically connected back to what the therapist was
trying to change/fix about your problem solving process with your
husband. I'm guessing, since you said that things are messed up, the
two of you **don't** work together constructively to find mutually
satisfactory solutions to stuff -- right? Does he not "take you
seriously"? Or do you not take him seriously? Does he start right off
the bat yelling, or does he aggravate you so that you end up yelling in
one minute flat? (Don't answer my questions, I know that's personal.)
But you WISH you could successfully work stuff out with him -- right?
Or do you just think it would be tons easier to be single? (Don't
answer that either!) I think the therapist, at least somewhat, supports
your desire to have interpersonal differences solved in a respectful
way. I think, like Sandra pointed out, that process may be what the
therapist wants to focus on.
Rachel Ann
The tcs site lists some books which are good.
Here: http://www.eeng.dcu.ie/~tcs/Books/booklist.html
I have always wanted to try the books by Jan Fortune-Wood, but couldn't. I do believe that would be a good place to start.
I use to subscribe to the list but my children actually were against it, despite the number of times I tried to tell them about it, and have them write the list and get them involved. I really have come to the conclusion that we are the parents and do need to set some boundaries, however, I think micro-control is bad, and talking is the best and most effective method for most children to discipline.
But these books should satisfy your needs...
Be well,
hope everything works out...
Rachel Ann
Here: http://www.eeng.dcu.ie/~tcs/Books/booklist.html
I have always wanted to try the books by Jan Fortune-Wood, but couldn't. I do believe that would be a good place to start.
I use to subscribe to the list but my children actually were against it, despite the number of times I tried to tell them about it, and have them write the list and get them involved. I really have come to the conclusion that we are the parents and do need to set some boundaries, however, I think micro-control is bad, and talking is the best and most effective method for most children to discipline.
But these books should satisfy your needs...
Be well,
hope everything works out...
Rachel Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: Mica
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 11:14 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Non-coercive parenting resources?
I've picked up on non-coercive parenting from TCS list years ago,
unschooling discussion lists and gleanings from a multitude of other
topic books. What books are a best reference for this parenting
philosophy (that make it clear that it is not the dismissed
"permissive/passive" parenting).
Mica
ghal9720@...
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
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Samantha Stopple
--- Mica <ghal9720@...> wrote:
by Marshall Rosenberg
This isn't a parenting book specifically but it is
very similar to _Parent Effectiveness Training_
Following link will give you some info about NVC:
http://www.cnvc.org/main.htm
I am willing to answer any questions you might have
about it. I have found using the NVC process in my
life transforming.
Samantha
sammimag@...
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
> I've picked up on non-coercive parenting from TCS_Non Violent Communication: A Language of Compassion_
> list years ago,
> unschooling discussion lists and gleanings from a
> multitude of other
> topic books. What books are a best reference for
> this parenting
> philosophy (that make it clear that it is not the
> dismissed
> "permissive/passive" parenting).
by Marshall Rosenberg
This isn't a parenting book specifically but it is
very similar to _Parent Effectiveness Training_
Following link will give you some info about NVC:
http://www.cnvc.org/main.htm
I am willing to answer any questions you might have
about it. I have found using the NVC process in my
life transforming.
Samantha
sammimag@...
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Samantha Stopple
--- Mica <ghal9720@...> wrote:
by Marshall Rosenberg
This isn't a parenting book specifically but it is
very similar to _Parent Effectiveness Training_
Following link will give you some info about NVC:
http://www.cnvc.org/main.htm
I am willing to answer any questions you might have
about it. I have found using the NVC process in my
life transforming.
Samantha
sammimag@...
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
> I've picked up on non-coercive parenting from TCS_Non Violent Communication: A Language of Compassion_
> list years ago,
> unschooling discussion lists and gleanings from a
> multitude of other
> topic books. What books are a best reference for
> this parenting
> philosophy (that make it clear that it is not the
> dismissed
> "permissive/passive" parenting).
by Marshall Rosenberg
This isn't a parenting book specifically but it is
very similar to _Parent Effectiveness Training_
Following link will give you some info about NVC:
http://www.cnvc.org/main.htm
I am willing to answer any questions you might have
about it. I have found using the NVC process in my
life transforming.
Samantha
sammimag@...
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com