careers and college
james e thomas
Deb K,
I certainly understand where your daughter is coming from. Our 15yod
has thought for a long time it was a waste to go to college and spend
tons of money...most likely come out with debt and end up doing what she
wants in the first place ~ be a mom!
She would be pressed to use her "skills" later on when she would rather
be at home with her children anyway. She is very much a people person and
would love to be working in the public even around minimum wage and happy
than having to settle on a career to pay a college debt.
I have wondered though whether many of the "big" advocates of college
are from those that either never went or did not finish and feel they
missed out on higher paying jobs. Kind of unfulfilled I guess!
Our daughter is working p/t in a consignment shop and has helped
customers put together outfits. The owner is thrilled (more sales) my
daughter loves it and a N.Y. City designer came in and heard her talking
to a customer. He listened awhile and then later told my daughter she has
a natural talent and should go into designing or interior decorating.
Neither of which appeals to her...she just loves people and putting
things together to make an outfit, decorate her room etc.
Our desire for her and the other children is to find what they want to
do and then go for it. Is that too simplistic?
sharon
________________________________________________________________
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I certainly understand where your daughter is coming from. Our 15yod
has thought for a long time it was a waste to go to college and spend
tons of money...most likely come out with debt and end up doing what she
wants in the first place ~ be a mom!
She would be pressed to use her "skills" later on when she would rather
be at home with her children anyway. She is very much a people person and
would love to be working in the public even around minimum wage and happy
than having to settle on a career to pay a college debt.
I have wondered though whether many of the "big" advocates of college
are from those that either never went or did not finish and feel they
missed out on higher paying jobs. Kind of unfulfilled I guess!
Our daughter is working p/t in a consignment shop and has helped
customers put together outfits. The owner is thrilled (more sales) my
daughter loves it and a N.Y. City designer came in and heard her talking
to a customer. He listened awhile and then later told my daughter she has
a natural talent and should go into designing or interior decorating.
Neither of which appeals to her...she just loves people and putting
things together to make an outfit, decorate her room etc.
Our desire for her and the other children is to find what they want to
do and then go for it. Is that too simplistic?
sharon
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
MO Milligans
At 11:35 AM 9/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
Nope, not too simplistic in my eyes. Then again, that's what we want for
our children as well :)
Todd
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I will choose Free Will" -Rush (& Todd)
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
>Our desire for her and the other children is to find what they want to==
>do and then go for it. Is that too simplistic?
>sharon
Nope, not too simplistic in my eyes. Then again, that's what we want for
our children as well :)
Todd
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I will choose Free Will" -Rush (& Todd)
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
Alan & Brenda Leonard
> I have wondered though whether many of the "big" advocates of collegeI think it's the same thing we see with public schools, really. The
> are from those that either never went or did not finish and feel they
> missed out on higher paying jobs. Kind of unfulfilled I guess!
they-didn't-hurt-me-so-they'll-be-good-for-you-too syndrome. The folks who
went to college and got the degree are now working, making it, etc. and so
they can't see outside that box. They can't see the damage it does to many
people, and also may have done to them. They did it, and they're making big
bucks, so everybody should.
It's only when you step outside that box, step out of the path that
everybody else walks that you see the problems with it. If all these
"happy" college-educated people are so happy, why do self-help books sell so
well? Why do people feel unfulfilled by all the stuff they've acquired and
want more, more, more? Why are so many people searching for some sort of
meaningful in their lives?
Unjobbing and unschooling college make complete sense to us because we've
already stepped outside the accepted norm. It's trying to get our friends,
family, colleagues, etc. to see that there is life outside that norm, and
really, it's better out here!
At least that's my take on the situation.
brenda
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/27/02 3:17:26 PM, abtleo@... writes:
<< The
they-didn't-hurt-me-so-they'll-be-good-for-you-too syndrome. >>
Or maybe "I just lived through the pain, and so it's only fair others have to
also."
<<If all these
"happy" college-educated people are so happy, why do self-help books sell so
well? Why do people feel unfulfilled by all the stuff they've acquired and
want more, more, more? >>
I had another example this week of my kids NOT being spoiled even though we
let them have tons of stuff and freedom.
Kirby saved $330 over a year. I had a rice box I was putting change in.
That was $70, when we counted it, and that was for him too, for taking to an
anime convention in Denver, over 300 miles away.
He came back with almost $175. He had bought gifts for those who had helped
him out, he had bought gasoline and meals, helped pay for the room he shared,
etc., and brought back just three things for himself, a CD of music of one of
the Final Fantasy games, and two lapel pins.
He went last year too. He wants definitely to go next year.
First thing he did when he came back was tell us all stories for hours, and
pay me and his dad back for some money we had fronted him, for leather for
armor (his dad) and for a superdy-renewal of his Nintendo Power (which I had
put on a charge card), which came with a video game.
So he was out of debt, still had pocket money, good memories, we were all
happy with him...
Not needy.
But if we had said "NO, you don't need to go there, stay home," or "You take
$150 and make it stretch," or "We're not fronting you money," he WOULD have
been stressed and more needy and less secure.
Sandra
<< The
they-didn't-hurt-me-so-they'll-be-good-for-you-too syndrome. >>
Or maybe "I just lived through the pain, and so it's only fair others have to
also."
<<If all these
"happy" college-educated people are so happy, why do self-help books sell so
well? Why do people feel unfulfilled by all the stuff they've acquired and
want more, more, more? >>
I had another example this week of my kids NOT being spoiled even though we
let them have tons of stuff and freedom.
Kirby saved $330 over a year. I had a rice box I was putting change in.
That was $70, when we counted it, and that was for him too, for taking to an
anime convention in Denver, over 300 miles away.
He came back with almost $175. He had bought gifts for those who had helped
him out, he had bought gasoline and meals, helped pay for the room he shared,
etc., and brought back just three things for himself, a CD of music of one of
the Final Fantasy games, and two lapel pins.
He went last year too. He wants definitely to go next year.
First thing he did when he came back was tell us all stories for hours, and
pay me and his dad back for some money we had fronted him, for leather for
armor (his dad) and for a superdy-renewal of his Nintendo Power (which I had
put on a charge card), which came with a video game.
So he was out of debt, still had pocket money, good memories, we were all
happy with him...
Not needy.
But if we had said "NO, you don't need to go there, stay home," or "You take
$150 and make it stretch," or "We're not fronting you money," he WOULD have
been stressed and more needy and less secure.
Sandra
Kelli Traaseth
Thank you Sandra for this post,, this is why I am on this list.
this one is going on my fridge!!
Kelli
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 9/27/02 3:17:26 PM, abtleo@... writes:
<< The
they-didn't-hurt-me-so-they'll-be-good-for-you-too syndrome. >>
Or maybe "I just lived through the pain, and so it's only fair others have to
also."
<<If all these
"happy" college-educated people are so happy, why do self-help books sell so
well? Why do people feel unfulfilled by all the stuff they've acquired and
want more, more, more? >>
I had another example this week of my kids NOT being spoiled even though we
let them have tons of stuff and freedom.
Kirby saved $330 over a year. I had a rice box I was putting change in.
That was $70, when we counted it, and that was for him too, for taking to an
anime convention in Denver, over 300 miles away.
He came back with almost $175. He had bought gifts for those who had helped
him out, he had bought gasoline and meals, helped pay for the room he shared,
etc., and brought back just three things for himself, a CD of music of one of
the Final Fantasy games, and two lapel pins.
He went last year too. He wants definitely to go next year.
First thing he did when he came back was tell us all stories for hours, and
pay me and his dad back for some money we had fronted him, for leather for
armor (his dad) and for a superdy-renewal of his Nintendo Power (which I had
put on a charge card), which came with a video game.
So he was out of debt, still had pocket money, good memories, we were all
happy with him...
Not needy.
But if we had said "NO, you don't need to go there, stay home," or "You take
$150 and make it stretch," or "We're not fronting you money," he WOULD have
been stressed and more needy and less secure.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
this one is going on my fridge!!
Kelli
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 9/27/02 3:17:26 PM, abtleo@... writes:
<< The
they-didn't-hurt-me-so-they'll-be-good-for-you-too syndrome. >>
Or maybe "I just lived through the pain, and so it's only fair others have to
also."
<<If all these
"happy" college-educated people are so happy, why do self-help books sell so
well? Why do people feel unfulfilled by all the stuff they've acquired and
want more, more, more? >>
I had another example this week of my kids NOT being spoiled even though we
let them have tons of stuff and freedom.
Kirby saved $330 over a year. I had a rice box I was putting change in.
That was $70, when we counted it, and that was for him too, for taking to an
anime convention in Denver, over 300 miles away.
He came back with almost $175. He had bought gifts for those who had helped
him out, he had bought gasoline and meals, helped pay for the room he shared,
etc., and brought back just three things for himself, a CD of music of one of
the Final Fantasy games, and two lapel pins.
He went last year too. He wants definitely to go next year.
First thing he did when he came back was tell us all stories for hours, and
pay me and his dad back for some money we had fronted him, for leather for
armor (his dad) and for a superdy-renewal of his Nintendo Power (which I had
put on a charge card), which came with a video game.
So he was out of debt, still had pocket money, good memories, we were all
happy with him...
Not needy.
But if we had said "NO, you don't need to go there, stay home," or "You take
$150 and make it stretch," or "We're not fronting you money," he WOULD have
been stressed and more needy and less secure.
Sandra
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Liz Reid and Errol Strelnikoff
Has everyone on this list had such unhappy experiences at College? I am
amazed!
Personally, I found that as far as teaching me a subject (in my case
Japanese language and political systems)it was not very successful. For my
husband, however, the opposite is true. He is a natural student and soaked
it all up like a sponge. As for a social time, it was excellent for both of
us.
From what I observed in friends and family there is both good and bad in
college. If you have a few good teachers (and there are some great ones to
be found) then it can be worth every minute. I can't speak for every penny
as I went to college in Australia where the costs to the individual are
almost nil. Some engineering and technical schools can provide a training
that you would be hard pressed to get on your own. It can also be a huge
waste of time.
I don't doubt that there could be far better alternatives to college, but
our society is not set up for much else. I am not willing for my kids to
not go to college out of some kind of principle, so I am looking at the
ability to get into a college as a benchmark in our homeschooling. Whether
they ever choose to go to college or not is another question, I don't want
to be blamed at some future date for having failed to prepare them for life
adequately and I think that university is too much a part of our culture to
dismiss it so easily.
Liz
amazed!
Personally, I found that as far as teaching me a subject (in my case
Japanese language and political systems)it was not very successful. For my
husband, however, the opposite is true. He is a natural student and soaked
it all up like a sponge. As for a social time, it was excellent for both of
us.
From what I observed in friends and family there is both good and bad in
college. If you have a few good teachers (and there are some great ones to
be found) then it can be worth every minute. I can't speak for every penny
as I went to college in Australia where the costs to the individual are
almost nil. Some engineering and technical schools can provide a training
that you would be hard pressed to get on your own. It can also be a huge
waste of time.
I don't doubt that there could be far better alternatives to college, but
our society is not set up for much else. I am not willing for my kids to
not go to college out of some kind of principle, so I am looking at the
ability to get into a college as a benchmark in our homeschooling. Whether
they ever choose to go to college or not is another question, I don't want
to be blamed at some future date for having failed to prepare them for life
adequately and I think that university is too much a part of our culture to
dismiss it so easily.
Liz
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/28/02 10:48:24 AM, lizanderrol@... writes:
<< I am not willing for my kids to
not go to college out of some kind of principle, so I am looking at the
ability to get into a college as a benchmark in our homeschooling. >>
The ability to get in is not the issue with us. They can get in. Kids can
start at any little junior college, trades school, state college, and with
good grades (if they're liking it enough to do that) can transfer to a
university.
<<I don't want
to be blamed at some future date for having failed to prepare them for life
adequately and I think that university is too much a part of our culture to
dismiss it so easily.>>
I don't think anyone's saying they want to purposely prevent their children
being prepared for college. The only people I've EVER heard say anything
even near that was Christian families who didn't want their *girls* to go to
college, at all.
<<Some engineering and technical schools can provide a training
that you would be hard pressed to get on your own. It can also be a huge
waste of time.>>
All absolutely true.
What I'm understanding the attitude to be about college, when it seems like
"whatever" from some homeschoolers, is that they hope their children are
growing up to see value in people and professions and jobs and hobbies
WITHOUT first asking "Do they have a college degree?"
Too many people have NO idea what they like or want when they graduate from
high school. All they've been encouraged to want or need is to get into
college, and some get out of college STILL without a clue or direction.
I enjoyed school, personally. Enjoyed college, and am glad I didn't drop
out. Finished at 20. Paid off my own loans. Still have friends from those
times. Still in touch with a couple of professors. Went to the funeral of
one a few years back.
My kids know there are specialties that need training. They know some need
college, some need other training. They are not "preparing for college" in
that focussed, memorizing, cramming way most people think of it. They are
preparing for life. College is a part of life. It doesn't have to begin at
17 or 18. It doesn't have to happen in four years.
I majored in English. I went to school with people who had never ever
written a single word that wasn't assigned by a teacher. There were people
there who ONLY knew how to read assigned books. Instead of having read for
fun, things they just came across, they always chose their reading off lists
of books that were supposed to be read. "Classics." WHY!? Because they
were school-trained up to their ears in the idea that at each decision point
there was a "right" decision (traditional, conservative, leading toward "a
goal,") and the wrong (time wasting, creative, personal, frivolous).
They weren't thinking, they were reacting the right way.
Some of them were in their 20's and still waiting for permission to be
individual humans.
I think probably THAT is what people are trying to avoid when they say they
don't care whether their kids go to college.
Sandra
<< I am not willing for my kids to
not go to college out of some kind of principle, so I am looking at the
ability to get into a college as a benchmark in our homeschooling. >>
The ability to get in is not the issue with us. They can get in. Kids can
start at any little junior college, trades school, state college, and with
good grades (if they're liking it enough to do that) can transfer to a
university.
<<I don't want
to be blamed at some future date for having failed to prepare them for life
adequately and I think that university is too much a part of our culture to
dismiss it so easily.>>
I don't think anyone's saying they want to purposely prevent their children
being prepared for college. The only people I've EVER heard say anything
even near that was Christian families who didn't want their *girls* to go to
college, at all.
<<Some engineering and technical schools can provide a training
that you would be hard pressed to get on your own. It can also be a huge
waste of time.>>
All absolutely true.
What I'm understanding the attitude to be about college, when it seems like
"whatever" from some homeschoolers, is that they hope their children are
growing up to see value in people and professions and jobs and hobbies
WITHOUT first asking "Do they have a college degree?"
Too many people have NO idea what they like or want when they graduate from
high school. All they've been encouraged to want or need is to get into
college, and some get out of college STILL without a clue or direction.
I enjoyed school, personally. Enjoyed college, and am glad I didn't drop
out. Finished at 20. Paid off my own loans. Still have friends from those
times. Still in touch with a couple of professors. Went to the funeral of
one a few years back.
My kids know there are specialties that need training. They know some need
college, some need other training. They are not "preparing for college" in
that focussed, memorizing, cramming way most people think of it. They are
preparing for life. College is a part of life. It doesn't have to begin at
17 or 18. It doesn't have to happen in four years.
I majored in English. I went to school with people who had never ever
written a single word that wasn't assigned by a teacher. There were people
there who ONLY knew how to read assigned books. Instead of having read for
fun, things they just came across, they always chose their reading off lists
of books that were supposed to be read. "Classics." WHY!? Because they
were school-trained up to their ears in the idea that at each decision point
there was a "right" decision (traditional, conservative, leading toward "a
goal,") and the wrong (time wasting, creative, personal, frivolous).
They weren't thinking, they were reacting the right way.
Some of them were in their 20's and still waiting for permission to be
individual humans.
I think probably THAT is what people are trying to avoid when they say they
don't care whether their kids go to college.
Sandra
MO Milligans
At 09:54 AM 9/28/02 -0700, you wrote:
Oh, I don't know about that. I can dismiss it quite easily. <g> Here I am,
at 37, have a beautiful homestead, family, etc. and I've only attended
college for 1.5 years. And I was always thinking I would rather be
somewhere else :) I consider my life to be a "success", and the minimal
time I spent in college had *nothing* to do with it.
Todd
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I will choose Free Will" -Rush (& Todd)
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
>I think that university is too much a part of our culture to==
>dismiss it so easily.
>
>Liz
Oh, I don't know about that. I can dismiss it quite easily. <g> Here I am,
at 37, have a beautiful homestead, family, etc. and I've only attended
college for 1.5 years. And I was always thinking I would rather be
somewhere else :) I consider my life to be a "success", and the minimal
time I spent in college had *nothing* to do with it.
Todd
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I will choose Free Will" -Rush (& Todd)
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
Jeff & Kate Kerr
***I think that university is too much a part of our culture to
dismiss it so easily.
Liz
==
Oh, I don't know about that. I can dismiss it quite easily. <g> Here I
am,
at 37, have a beautiful homestead, family, etc. and I've only attended
college for 1.5 years. And I was always thinking I would rather be
somewhere else :) I consider my life to be a "success", and the minimal
time I spent in college had *nothing* to do with it.
Todd***
If I may,
I went to college, majored in Cultural Anthropology because that's what
I was interested in (after the fine art degree and the barber's license)
and I loved it. My husband is just now finishing his degree in a field
that interests him. Our children have college funds set up for them by
their papa (my father). I think it's all great - if that's what you
want and where you want to be. If not, then college isn't for you.
My husband, my father and I don't care if the kids use the college fund
for college, or traveling, or house payments, or books, whatever they
choose - it's theirs. They will not be pressured into going. As a
matter of fact our youngest is saying she will never go to school, ever,
even college (she decided to try kindergarten this year and went one
day. She walked out of the classroom saying she got hit by another
student three times, they only got to read one book, they spent most of
their time waiting for other people and she's bored and doesn't want to
go back - so she didn't. I'm so proud of her.).
What I'm trying to say, is that whether you go or not should be a
personal choice, and just because you decide to go does not mean you
need to finish it with a degree in your hand. One of the smartest men I
know took classes that interested him over a ten year period and then -
1 class away from his degree - he quit because he was done. That's the
way to do it in my book - just go after what interests you.
2 cents from CA
Kate
dismiss it so easily.
Liz
==
Oh, I don't know about that. I can dismiss it quite easily. <g> Here I
am,
at 37, have a beautiful homestead, family, etc. and I've only attended
college for 1.5 years. And I was always thinking I would rather be
somewhere else :) I consider my life to be a "success", and the minimal
time I spent in college had *nothing* to do with it.
Todd***
If I may,
I went to college, majored in Cultural Anthropology because that's what
I was interested in (after the fine art degree and the barber's license)
and I loved it. My husband is just now finishing his degree in a field
that interests him. Our children have college funds set up for them by
their papa (my father). I think it's all great - if that's what you
want and where you want to be. If not, then college isn't for you.
My husband, my father and I don't care if the kids use the college fund
for college, or traveling, or house payments, or books, whatever they
choose - it's theirs. They will not be pressured into going. As a
matter of fact our youngest is saying she will never go to school, ever,
even college (she decided to try kindergarten this year and went one
day. She walked out of the classroom saying she got hit by another
student three times, they only got to read one book, they spent most of
their time waiting for other people and she's bored and doesn't want to
go back - so she didn't. I'm so proud of her.).
What I'm trying to say, is that whether you go or not should be a
personal choice, and just because you decide to go does not mean you
need to finish it with a degree in your hand. One of the smartest men I
know took classes that interested him over a ten year period and then -
1 class away from his degree - he quit because he was done. That's the
way to do it in my book - just go after what interests you.
2 cents from CA
Kate
MO Milligans
At 05:50 PM 9/28/02 -0700, you wrote:
I agree w/that completely. The reason *I* personally don't feel the need to
go, is because I can't think of anything that interests me enough to go
through the hassle of getting enrolled. Mostly I just hate paperwork. LOL.
My wife would love to go to hone her wheel-pottering skills. However, she
hasn't been able to find a college that would let her take just *one*
class, without doing the entrance test, or aiming for a degree, so she
doesn't go. If a person knows what they want to study, then by all means,
they should go. I just don't think the "collective we" should be *expected*
to go to college because "that's what our society says is necessary". Ya
know? :)
We can't afford to build a trust-fund for the kids'. So, when the time
comes that they want to try college, we'll be looking hard into grants :-)
Else they could start saving their allowances for it, but they'd rather buy
fun things right now. <g>
Todd
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I will choose Free Will" -Rush (& Todd)
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
>What I'm trying to say, is that whether you go or not should be a==
>personal choice, and just because you decide to go does not mean you
>need to finish it with a degree in your hand. One of the smartest men I
>know took classes that interested him over a ten year period and then -
>1 class away from his degree - he quit because he was done. That's the
>way to do it in my book - just go after what interests you.
>
>2 cents from CA
>Kate
I agree w/that completely. The reason *I* personally don't feel the need to
go, is because I can't think of anything that interests me enough to go
through the hassle of getting enrolled. Mostly I just hate paperwork. LOL.
My wife would love to go to hone her wheel-pottering skills. However, she
hasn't been able to find a college that would let her take just *one*
class, without doing the entrance test, or aiming for a degree, so she
doesn't go. If a person knows what they want to study, then by all means,
they should go. I just don't think the "collective we" should be *expected*
to go to college because "that's what our society says is necessary". Ya
know? :)
We can't afford to build a trust-fund for the kids'. So, when the time
comes that they want to try college, we'll be looking hard into grants :-)
Else they could start saving their allowances for it, but they'd rather buy
fun things right now. <g>
Todd
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I will choose Free Will" -Rush (& Todd)
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
mabeitzel
I wanted to make a comment here. Although we are new to hs (and
uns) when I think about my college history....I went to college
right after highschool and did it only because it was "what you
did." I felt pressured and did not like the fact that I was now in
college with the same people I was in hs with and I didn't even
really know what I wanted to do. I had not experienced enough of
life to have a clue. My hs counselor talked to us about college as
if it were this prerequisite to life in general. I very shortly
after starting dropped out. Now at 32 I am back in (well it has
been a ten year process). Over the years I have gone back for a
while working towards a degree and then not. I still had no idea
what I wanted. I would have liked to have the ability to make that
decision 14 years ago, but it just never happened. Now however I am
so glad to be in college and pursuing the degree that I am. It is a
wonderful feeling to be working towards something you really want
and a career I want to be in. I'll stop blabbing...the post just
made me think of my circumstances. Of course if my children know
what they want sooner and want to enter college - great! But I do
not want them to feel they have to go to get a 4 yr. degree that
means nothing to them just to get on with their lives.
Just my thoughts
Michelle B.
uns) when I think about my college history....I went to college
right after highschool and did it only because it was "what you
did." I felt pressured and did not like the fact that I was now in
college with the same people I was in hs with and I didn't even
really know what I wanted to do. I had not experienced enough of
life to have a clue. My hs counselor talked to us about college as
if it were this prerequisite to life in general. I very shortly
after starting dropped out. Now at 32 I am back in (well it has
been a ten year process). Over the years I have gone back for a
while working towards a degree and then not. I still had no idea
what I wanted. I would have liked to have the ability to make that
decision 14 years ago, but it just never happened. Now however I am
so glad to be in college and pursuing the degree that I am. It is a
wonderful feeling to be working towards something you really want
and a career I want to be in. I'll stop blabbing...the post just
made me think of my circumstances. Of course if my children know
what they want sooner and want to enter college - great! But I do
not want them to feel they have to go to get a 4 yr. degree that
means nothing to them just to get on with their lives.
Just my thoughts
Michelle B.
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/28/02 10:48:24 AM, lizanderrol@c... writes:
>
> << I am not willing for my kids to
> not go to college out of some kind of principle, so I am looking
at the
> ability to get into a college as a benchmark in our
homeschooling. >>
>
> The ability to get in is not the issue with us. They can get in.
Kids can
> start at any little junior college, trades school, state college,
and with
> good grades (if they're liking it enough to do that) can transfer
to a
> university.
>
> <<I don't want
> to be blamed at some future date for having failed to prepare them
for life
> adequately and I think that university is too much a part of our
culture to
> dismiss it so easily.>>
>
> I don't think anyone's saying they want to purposely prevent their
children
> being prepared for college. The only people I've EVER heard say
anything
> even near that was Christian families who didn't want their
*girls* to go to
> college, at all.
>
> <<Some engineering and technical schools can provide a training
> that you would be hard pressed to get on your own. It can also be
a huge
> waste of time.>>
>
> All absolutely true.
>
> What I'm understanding the attitude to be about college, when it
seems like
> "whatever" from some homeschoolers, is that they hope their
children are
> growing up to see value in people and professions and jobs and
hobbies
> WITHOUT first asking "Do they have a college degree?"
>
> Too many people have NO idea what they like or want when they
graduate from
> high school. All they've been encouraged to want or need is to
get into
> college, and some get out of college STILL without a clue or
direction.
>
> I enjoyed school, personally. Enjoyed college, and am glad I
didn't drop
> out. Finished at 20. Paid off my own loans. Still have friends
from those
> times. Still in touch with a couple of professors. Went to the
funeral of
> one a few years back.
>
> My kids know there are specialties that need training. They know
some need
> college, some need other training. They are not "preparing for
college" in
> that focussed, memorizing, cramming way most people think of it.
They are
> preparing for life. College is a part of life. It doesn't have
to begin at
> 17 or 18. It doesn't have to happen in four years.
>
> I majored in English. I went to school with people who had never
ever
> written a single word that wasn't assigned by a teacher. There
were people
> there who ONLY knew how to read assigned books. Instead of
having read for
> fun, things they just came across, they always chose their reading
off lists
> of books that were supposed to be read. "Classics." WHY!?
Because they
> were school-trained up to their ears in the idea that at each
decision point
> there was a "right" decision (traditional, conservative, leading
toward "a
> goal,") and the wrong (time wasting, creative, personal,
frivolous).
>
> They weren't thinking, they were reacting the right way.
>
> Some of them were in their 20's and still waiting for permission
to be
> individual humans.
>
> I think probably THAT is what people are trying to avoid when they
say they
> don't care whether their kids go to college.
>
> Sandra
Kelli Traaseth
Kate,
I agree with you. I was the first in my family(baby of the family) of four to go to college/uni.
I had to fight my whole way there because no one else had gone, including my parents. They couldn't understand why I would want to go. I just loved the wealth of knowledge there! I didn't much get into the clickiness (sp?), it was a small liberal arts college. But there were so many talented individuals there sharing those talents.
For me that was my desire and I got lots of financial aid because my parents couldn't afford it.
On the flip side, I have a business and English degree, and sometimes as I was making student loan payments I would wonder was it worth it? Being a stay at home mom and not making any income. And you know what? I probably wouldn't be the person I am today, good or bad, I'm happy with me.
My husband and I both went to college but if our children don't want to....more power to them! All I want for them is to be happy ... hopefully growing up in an unschooling/open environment will do that for them!
Take Care,
Kelli
Jeff & Kate Kerr wrote: ***I think that university is too much a part of our culture to
dismiss it so easily.
Liz
==
Oh, I don't know about that. I can dismiss it quite easily. <g> Here I
am,
at 37, have a beautiful homestead, family, etc. and I've only attended
college for 1.5 years. And I was always thinking I would rather be
somewhere else :) I consider my life to be a "success", and the minimal
time I spent in college had *nothing* to do with it.
Todd***
If I may,
I went to college, majored in Cultural Anthropology because that's what
I was interested in (after the fine art degree and the barber's license)
and I loved it. My husband is just now finishing his degree in a field
that interests him.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I agree with you. I was the first in my family(baby of the family) of four to go to college/uni.
I had to fight my whole way there because no one else had gone, including my parents. They couldn't understand why I would want to go. I just loved the wealth of knowledge there! I didn't much get into the clickiness (sp?), it was a small liberal arts college. But there were so many talented individuals there sharing those talents.
For me that was my desire and I got lots of financial aid because my parents couldn't afford it.
On the flip side, I have a business and English degree, and sometimes as I was making student loan payments I would wonder was it worth it? Being a stay at home mom and not making any income. And you know what? I probably wouldn't be the person I am today, good or bad, I'm happy with me.
My husband and I both went to college but if our children don't want to....more power to them! All I want for them is to be happy ... hopefully growing up in an unschooling/open environment will do that for them!
Take Care,
Kelli
Jeff & Kate Kerr wrote: ***I think that university is too much a part of our culture to
dismiss it so easily.
Liz
==
Oh, I don't know about that. I can dismiss it quite easily. <g> Here I
am,
at 37, have a beautiful homestead, family, etc. and I've only attended
college for 1.5 years. And I was always thinking I would rather be
somewhere else :) I consider my life to be a "success", and the minimal
time I spent in college had *nothing* to do with it.
Todd***
If I may,
I went to college, majored in Cultural Anthropology because that's what
I was interested in (after the fine art degree and the barber's license)
and I loved it. My husband is just now finishing his degree in a field
that interests him.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/28/02 10:21:45 PM, Ozarkren@... writes:
<< However, she
hasn't been able to find a college that would let her take just *one*
class, without doing the entrance test, or aiming for a degree, so she
doesn't go. >>
The magic word is "audit."
She asks if she can audit the class, which means pay tuition and be there,
but not get a grade or credit.
Sandra
<< However, she
hasn't been able to find a college that would let her take just *one*
class, without doing the entrance test, or aiming for a degree, so she
doesn't go. >>
The magic word is "audit."
She asks if she can audit the class, which means pay tuition and be there,
but not get a grade or credit.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/29/02 1:59:05 AM, mabeitzel@... writes:
<< I do
not want them to feel they have to go to get a 4 yr. degree that
means nothing to them just to get on with their lives. >>
AMEN.
And there is not really any big rush.
If we lived way out in the middle of nowhere and my kids had never had lots
of interaction with others, I'd be hoping they'd want to got to college for
sure. But in our case, we're in a college town, and they DO have lots of
interaction with people their own ages and younger and older, and adult and
in college, so they see it, they know it's available, and nobody's stressing.
My husband started buying the savings bonds you can use on education years
and years ago, so although we don't have enough to get anyone through four
years, we DO have enough to allow all three to dabble and see what they want!
Sandra
<< I do
not want them to feel they have to go to get a 4 yr. degree that
means nothing to them just to get on with their lives. >>
AMEN.
And there is not really any big rush.
If we lived way out in the middle of nowhere and my kids had never had lots
of interaction with others, I'd be hoping they'd want to got to college for
sure. But in our case, we're in a college town, and they DO have lots of
interaction with people their own ages and younger and older, and adult and
in college, so they see it, they know it's available, and nobody's stressing.
My husband started buying the savings bonds you can use on education years
and years ago, so although we don't have enough to get anyone through four
years, we DO have enough to allow all three to dabble and see what they want!
Sandra
Jennifer Green
Very well said Sandra!
Jen
In a message dated 9/28/02 10:48:24 AM, lizanderrol@... writes:
<< I am not willing for my kids to
not go to college out of some kind of principle, so I am looking at the
ability to get into a college as a benchmark in our homeschooling. >>
The ability to get in is not the issue with us. They can get in. Kids can
start at any little junior college, trades school, state college, and with
good grades (if they're liking it enough to do that) can transfer to a
university.
<<I don't want
to be blamed at some future date for having failed to prepare them for life
adequately and I think that university is too much a part of our culture to
dismiss it so easily.>>
I don't think anyone's saying they want to purposely prevent their children
being prepared for college. The only people I've EVER heard say anything
even near that was Christian families who didn't want their *girls* to go to
college, at all.
<<Some engineering and technical schools can provide a training
that you would be hard pressed to get on your own. It can also be a huge
waste of time.>>
All absolutely true.
What I'm understanding the attitude to be about college, when it seems like
"whatever" from some homeschoolers, is that they hope their children are
growing up to see value in people and professions and jobs and hobbies
WITHOUT first asking "Do they have a college degree?"
Too many people have NO idea what they like or want when they graduate from
high school. All they've been encouraged to want or need is to get into
college, and some get out of college STILL without a clue or direction.
I enjoyed school, personally. Enjoyed college, and am glad I didn't drop
out. Finished at 20. Paid off my own loans. Still have friends from those
times. Still in touch with a couple of professors. Went to the funeral of
one a few years back.
My kids know there are specialties that need training. They know some need
college, some need other training. They are not "preparing for college" in
that focussed, memorizing, cramming way most people think of it. They are
preparing for life. College is a part of life. It doesn't have to begin at
17 or 18. It doesn't have to happen in four years.
I majored in English. I went to school with people who had never ever
written a single word that wasn't assigned by a teacher. There were people
there who ONLY knew how to read assigned books. Instead of having read for
fun, things they just came across, they always chose their reading off lists
of books that were supposed to be read. "Classics." WHY!? Because they
were school-trained up to their ears in the idea that at each decision point
there was a "right" decision (traditional, conservative, leading toward "a
goal,") and the wrong (time wasting, creative, personal, frivolous).
They weren't thinking, they were reacting the right way.
Some of them were in their 20's and still waiting for permission to be
individual humans.
I think probably THAT is what people are trying to avoid when they say they
don't care whether their kids go to college.
Sandra
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jen
In a message dated 9/28/02 10:48:24 AM, lizanderrol@... writes:
<< I am not willing for my kids to
not go to college out of some kind of principle, so I am looking at the
ability to get into a college as a benchmark in our homeschooling. >>
The ability to get in is not the issue with us. They can get in. Kids can
start at any little junior college, trades school, state college, and with
good grades (if they're liking it enough to do that) can transfer to a
university.
<<I don't want
to be blamed at some future date for having failed to prepare them for life
adequately and I think that university is too much a part of our culture to
dismiss it so easily.>>
I don't think anyone's saying they want to purposely prevent their children
being prepared for college. The only people I've EVER heard say anything
even near that was Christian families who didn't want their *girls* to go to
college, at all.
<<Some engineering and technical schools can provide a training
that you would be hard pressed to get on your own. It can also be a huge
waste of time.>>
All absolutely true.
What I'm understanding the attitude to be about college, when it seems like
"whatever" from some homeschoolers, is that they hope their children are
growing up to see value in people and professions and jobs and hobbies
WITHOUT first asking "Do they have a college degree?"
Too many people have NO idea what they like or want when they graduate from
high school. All they've been encouraged to want or need is to get into
college, and some get out of college STILL without a clue or direction.
I enjoyed school, personally. Enjoyed college, and am glad I didn't drop
out. Finished at 20. Paid off my own loans. Still have friends from those
times. Still in touch with a couple of professors. Went to the funeral of
one a few years back.
My kids know there are specialties that need training. They know some need
college, some need other training. They are not "preparing for college" in
that focussed, memorizing, cramming way most people think of it. They are
preparing for life. College is a part of life. It doesn't have to begin at
17 or 18. It doesn't have to happen in four years.
I majored in English. I went to school with people who had never ever
written a single word that wasn't assigned by a teacher. There were people
there who ONLY knew how to read assigned books. Instead of having read for
fun, things they just came across, they always chose their reading off lists
of books that were supposed to be read. "Classics." WHY!? Because they
were school-trained up to their ears in the idea that at each decision point
there was a "right" decision (traditional, conservative, leading toward "a
goal,") and the wrong (time wasting, creative, personal, frivolous).
They weren't thinking, they were reacting the right way.
Some of them were in their 20's and still waiting for permission to be
individual humans.
I think probably THAT is what people are trying to avoid when they say they
don't care whether their kids go to college.
Sandra
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> << However, sheThe community college I went to way back when offered a number of pottery
> hasn't been able to find a college that would let her take just *one*
> class, without doing the entrance test, or aiming for a degree, so she
> doesn't go. >>
>
> The magic word is "audit."
> She asks if she can audit the class, which means pay tuition and be there,
> but not get a grade or credit.
classes. You didn't have to be a full-time student or pass any entrance
tests or anything.
Tia