Kids With LDs and Unschooling
Julie Woolfolk
Hi all
This post is so hard to write, I'm not even sure
if it will come out sounding right.
My ds is 10 and we've always homeschooled. Last
week I had him tested for LDs. The results came
back as severely learning disabled (I really don't
have the particulars yet, I'm waiting for the
report).1st grade reading/ 2nd grade math. I knew
what it would be but for some reason having
someone else tell me put me into a tailspin. Maybe
it was their insistence that only a "special
education teacher" was the only one who could help
ds. I spent days coming up with a new "learning
program" to work with him that would include more
and more phonics practice. sigh, It was harder
that everyone who unschooled, that I knew, had
kids who were not having any problem picking up
reading. Whereas with ds it was and is like the
printed english language was a foreign language to
him.
I could cry. We started out saying we were
unschoolers but never really seemed to embrace it.
I kept saying I was unschooling but I have never
really trusted ds enough to truly give him his
lead. I always had to be trying to teach him to
read or do "a little" math with him. Once I
finally admitted we were not unschoolers I plunged
ds into "school at home" but he has never taken to
it or reading or math. School is what he does
around the things he wants to do.
Is it the schooling that makes the dyslexic? Maybe
ds would not be having problems with reading and
math if I had just followed his lead. He's always
said he's not interested in reading, does not
really care if he can't (Of course I've always put
that down to him not wanting to do something that
he fails at so he's got a type of "learned
helplessness" that he uses as a way to protect
himself)
In the last few days I've had to rethink
everything. I'm kinda lost right now. I'm not
really sure where we are heading. Is it that
school at home caused the LDs or does he really
have some processing problems that need to be
addressed? Is it still the problem of not working
with ds's strengths? Everything I read about
dyslexia/language disabilities states how you need
to be working with these kids in intensive phonics
programs like Spaulding or Orton-Gilliham(sp) and
the older they get the less chance there will ever
be for them to read fluently. I had a long talk
with a friend who has known us for years who just
belives ds needs more time.
Can I really drop the reading and math and let him
take his time to find his way with our help? Is it
still "unschooling" if your still insisting that
the child does his therapies (audiblox, braingym,
and earobics in our case) that will help in
processing if ds does really have Dyslexia. Kinda
like medicine for the brain. I guess I was
wondering if anyone with ld kids have been able to
let go and relax?
I hope I can lurk for awhile while I sort this all
out.
Julie W in AR
This post is so hard to write, I'm not even sure
if it will come out sounding right.
My ds is 10 and we've always homeschooled. Last
week I had him tested for LDs. The results came
back as severely learning disabled (I really don't
have the particulars yet, I'm waiting for the
report).1st grade reading/ 2nd grade math. I knew
what it would be but for some reason having
someone else tell me put me into a tailspin. Maybe
it was their insistence that only a "special
education teacher" was the only one who could help
ds. I spent days coming up with a new "learning
program" to work with him that would include more
and more phonics practice. sigh, It was harder
that everyone who unschooled, that I knew, had
kids who were not having any problem picking up
reading. Whereas with ds it was and is like the
printed english language was a foreign language to
him.
I could cry. We started out saying we were
unschoolers but never really seemed to embrace it.
I kept saying I was unschooling but I have never
really trusted ds enough to truly give him his
lead. I always had to be trying to teach him to
read or do "a little" math with him. Once I
finally admitted we were not unschoolers I plunged
ds into "school at home" but he has never taken to
it or reading or math. School is what he does
around the things he wants to do.
Is it the schooling that makes the dyslexic? Maybe
ds would not be having problems with reading and
math if I had just followed his lead. He's always
said he's not interested in reading, does not
really care if he can't (Of course I've always put
that down to him not wanting to do something that
he fails at so he's got a type of "learned
helplessness" that he uses as a way to protect
himself)
In the last few days I've had to rethink
everything. I'm kinda lost right now. I'm not
really sure where we are heading. Is it that
school at home caused the LDs or does he really
have some processing problems that need to be
addressed? Is it still the problem of not working
with ds's strengths? Everything I read about
dyslexia/language disabilities states how you need
to be working with these kids in intensive phonics
programs like Spaulding or Orton-Gilliham(sp) and
the older they get the less chance there will ever
be for them to read fluently. I had a long talk
with a friend who has known us for years who just
belives ds needs more time.
Can I really drop the reading and math and let him
take his time to find his way with our help? Is it
still "unschooling" if your still insisting that
the child does his therapies (audiblox, braingym,
and earobics in our case) that will help in
processing if ds does really have Dyslexia. Kinda
like medicine for the brain. I guess I was
wondering if anyone with ld kids have been able to
let go and relax?
I hope I can lurk for awhile while I sort this all
out.
Julie W in AR
Rachel Ann
My feeling is, your son will probably be better for dropping it for awhile, and while he is just doing his own thing, watch him. He may just surprise you on the math and reading skills he does have.
My daugther is also a late to read child...she isn't quite up to where other kids her age are. Of course she is also a gesalt learner, and won't consider herself reading until she is able to read H.P. on her own.
We started penpalling, and neopets, and both have offered her more relaxed opportunities to read. In fact the other day I typed out a letter for her that she dictated, and she found my spelling and grammar errors. Welll, at least some. Realized I said mine istead of my, that I wrote I not I'm. Pretty cool to me. She also is reading the short descriptions under the pets when the eat something.
Did you, or does anyone know of the site which recommends using a colored transperancy over the writing to help a child read. I don't remember the URL. I did ask my daughter, as she was watching BETWEEN THE LIONS, taking in how the show highlighted the words of the book they were reading, whether that made it clearer to her, and she felt it did. I don't know all the particulars. You may simply want to cut out a pale colored piece of transparency and place it over the words. Try different colors etc, lengthening the transparency as he becomes better at reading the words.
Also, as far as math goes, how does his difficulties manifest itself? Does he understand the concepts but doesn't get the memorization? That will come from naturally working with numbers. I would let him use a calculator or other device to find the answer to the times tables/addition tables etc. whatever else he is doing. My concern would be that he knows how to carry and borrow, and when. But other problems may masquarade as an inability in math. He may have a tactile aversion to paper (so he wouldn't like holding or touching books either) he may not be able to grip the pencil comfortably. There are grips that may writing a pleasure, that are fairly cheap. He may not like the sound of pen/cil against paper. You can try doing these things on a white board, chalk board, with paint or plain or magnetic number tiles...see if he can do it then. His hand may tire more easily than the next person, so writing more than one or two sentences or one or two problems will become annoying.
He will, by the way, most likely outgrow the aversion as he gets older. My son also had this difficulty.
Finally, while it helps to have a label sometimes, do keep reminding yourself that what matters is he is learning, not how or when he gets to a specific goal. That is the beauty of unschooling. There is, really, no such thing as being behind or, for that matter, ahead. There is just the child being the child.
be well,
Rachel Ann
Can I really drop the reading and math and let him
take his time to find his way with our help? Is it
still "unschooling" if your still insisting that
the child does his therapies (audiblox, braingym,
and earobics in our case) that will help in
processing if ds does really have Dyslexia. Kinda
like medicine for the brain. I guess I was
wondering if anyone with ld kids have been able to
let go and relax?
I hope I can lurk for awhile while I sort this all
out.
Julie W in AR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My daugther is also a late to read child...she isn't quite up to where other kids her age are. Of course she is also a gesalt learner, and won't consider herself reading until she is able to read H.P. on her own.
We started penpalling, and neopets, and both have offered her more relaxed opportunities to read. In fact the other day I typed out a letter for her that she dictated, and she found my spelling and grammar errors. Welll, at least some. Realized I said mine istead of my, that I wrote I not I'm. Pretty cool to me. She also is reading the short descriptions under the pets when the eat something.
Did you, or does anyone know of the site which recommends using a colored transperancy over the writing to help a child read. I don't remember the URL. I did ask my daughter, as she was watching BETWEEN THE LIONS, taking in how the show highlighted the words of the book they were reading, whether that made it clearer to her, and she felt it did. I don't know all the particulars. You may simply want to cut out a pale colored piece of transparency and place it over the words. Try different colors etc, lengthening the transparency as he becomes better at reading the words.
Also, as far as math goes, how does his difficulties manifest itself? Does he understand the concepts but doesn't get the memorization? That will come from naturally working with numbers. I would let him use a calculator or other device to find the answer to the times tables/addition tables etc. whatever else he is doing. My concern would be that he knows how to carry and borrow, and when. But other problems may masquarade as an inability in math. He may have a tactile aversion to paper (so he wouldn't like holding or touching books either) he may not be able to grip the pencil comfortably. There are grips that may writing a pleasure, that are fairly cheap. He may not like the sound of pen/cil against paper. You can try doing these things on a white board, chalk board, with paint or plain or magnetic number tiles...see if he can do it then. His hand may tire more easily than the next person, so writing more than one or two sentences or one or two problems will become annoying.
He will, by the way, most likely outgrow the aversion as he gets older. My son also had this difficulty.
Finally, while it helps to have a label sometimes, do keep reminding yourself that what matters is he is learning, not how or when he gets to a specific goal. That is the beauty of unschooling. There is, really, no such thing as being behind or, for that matter, ahead. There is just the child being the child.
be well,
Rachel Ann
Can I really drop the reading and math and let him
take his time to find his way with our help? Is it
still "unschooling" if your still insisting that
the child does his therapies (audiblox, braingym,
and earobics in our case) that will help in
processing if ds does really have Dyslexia. Kinda
like medicine for the brain. I guess I was
wondering if anyone with ld kids have been able to
let go and relax?
I hope I can lurk for awhile while I sort this all
out.
Julie W in AR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/25/02 11:08:30 PM, jwoolfolk@... writes:
<< Is it the schooling that makes the dyslexic? Maybe
ds would not be having problems with reading and
math if I had just followed his lead. >>
He might not be reading, but he wouldn't have been branded "disabled."
Liam McClure. Never labelled, 18, reading fine. Was NOT reading fine at 10.
http://www.unschooling.com/library/index.shtml
http://sandradodd.com/reading
Growing Without Schooling used to have lots of accounts of and by teens who
hadn't learned to read UNTIL they were teens, and were caught up in a year or
two so that no one would ever know they "read late."
<<Is it that
school at home caused the LDs or does he really
have some processing problems that need to be
addressed? >>
I think it's that trying to keep him on school's timetable showed him not to
be mid-curve/average, and now you're freaking out.
Unschooling needs for people to allow kids to develop in their own time and
in their own ways.
<< Is it still the problem of not working
with ds's strengths? >>
Yes.
For seeing reading as more important as learning.
Can't he learn from videos and games and in-person explorations of places and
things? Can't reading wait?
<<Everything I read about
dyslexia/language disabilities states how you need
to be working with these kids in intensive phonics
programs like Spaulding or Orton-Gilliham(sp) and
the older they get the less chance there will ever
be for them to read fluently. >>
What you're reading has to do with TRYING (very often unsuccessfully) to get
kids "back on schedule" so they can "succeed in school."
You brought school home, and school can hurt you at home the same way it can
down the street where it lives.
<<I had a long talk
with a friend who has known us for years who just
belives ds needs more time.>>
I agree. But the labelling, pressure and testing will make it take longer,
because he'll have to recover now from the attempts to help him.
<<Can I really drop the reading and math and let him
take his time to find his way with our help? >>
Your help hasn't been as helpful as you had hoped so far.
I think if a bridge falls down three times in the same place, don't put up a
fourth one. Shake loose of the idea that something needs to be there. It's
not working. Change course and philosophy.
<<Is it
still "unschooling" if your still insisting that
the child does his therapies (audiblox, braingym,
and earobics in our case) that will help in
processing if ds does really have Dyslexia.>>
Insisting?
Does he like it? Do you see any immediate benefits?
Do you see any harm? (Like frustration or time waste?)
Offering and accepting "No, thanks" would be more productive, I think, than
insisting.
Insisting got you where you are today, and you don't sound very happy.
<<Kinda
like medicine for the brain. >>
Medicine? or school training?
<<I guess I was
wondering if anyone with ld kids have been able to
let go and relax?>>
Carol Rice.
http://www.unschooling.com/library/index.shtml
I've known her since she only had three kids. Read that. Read it twice.
Sandra
<< Is it the schooling that makes the dyslexic? Maybe
ds would not be having problems with reading and
math if I had just followed his lead. >>
He might not be reading, but he wouldn't have been branded "disabled."
Liam McClure. Never labelled, 18, reading fine. Was NOT reading fine at 10.
http://www.unschooling.com/library/index.shtml
http://sandradodd.com/reading
Growing Without Schooling used to have lots of accounts of and by teens who
hadn't learned to read UNTIL they were teens, and were caught up in a year or
two so that no one would ever know they "read late."
<<Is it that
school at home caused the LDs or does he really
have some processing problems that need to be
addressed? >>
I think it's that trying to keep him on school's timetable showed him not to
be mid-curve/average, and now you're freaking out.
Unschooling needs for people to allow kids to develop in their own time and
in their own ways.
<< Is it still the problem of not working
with ds's strengths? >>
Yes.
For seeing reading as more important as learning.
Can't he learn from videos and games and in-person explorations of places and
things? Can't reading wait?
<<Everything I read about
dyslexia/language disabilities states how you need
to be working with these kids in intensive phonics
programs like Spaulding or Orton-Gilliham(sp) and
the older they get the less chance there will ever
be for them to read fluently. >>
What you're reading has to do with TRYING (very often unsuccessfully) to get
kids "back on schedule" so they can "succeed in school."
You brought school home, and school can hurt you at home the same way it can
down the street where it lives.
<<I had a long talk
with a friend who has known us for years who just
belives ds needs more time.>>
I agree. But the labelling, pressure and testing will make it take longer,
because he'll have to recover now from the attempts to help him.
<<Can I really drop the reading and math and let him
take his time to find his way with our help? >>
Your help hasn't been as helpful as you had hoped so far.
I think if a bridge falls down three times in the same place, don't put up a
fourth one. Shake loose of the idea that something needs to be there. It's
not working. Change course and philosophy.
<<Is it
still "unschooling" if your still insisting that
the child does his therapies (audiblox, braingym,
and earobics in our case) that will help in
processing if ds does really have Dyslexia.>>
Insisting?
Does he like it? Do you see any immediate benefits?
Do you see any harm? (Like frustration or time waste?)
Offering and accepting "No, thanks" would be more productive, I think, than
insisting.
Insisting got you where you are today, and you don't sound very happy.
<<Kinda
like medicine for the brain. >>
Medicine? or school training?
<<I guess I was
wondering if anyone with ld kids have been able to
let go and relax?>>
Carol Rice.
http://www.unschooling.com/library/index.shtml
I've known her since she only had three kids. Read that. Read it twice.
Sandra
Cathy Hilde
Hi Julie,
I read your post and my heart goes out to you because it sounds like you are
really struggling right now.
I'm sure others will come through with better words for you. But I wanted to
let you know a couple things. First, the *testing* he went through is not
the end all be all. It is a snapshot in time with many variables involved.
Is there really such a thing as "1st grade reading"? My oldest (10 years
old) has developmental delays and was in public school for a few years. He
was constantly tested and we always treated that information as just another
tidbit to add to the other tidbits of information to gain knowledge on how
he learns.
Second, your ds is the same person to day as he was the time before the
tests. Sometimes I would let a particular test or report get to me. I found
myself responding to my son a little differently. It was like I was viewing
him in a different light. Boy did he pick up on that. I was pressuring him
to work harder...learn more. He was pushing back and just wanted me to quit.
Soon he would "shut down". He began to think that I thought there was
something wrong with him.
Now that he is home the only learning clock he is on is his own. We are
still working together to gain his confidence and love of learning back.
But he is so happy. Which brings me to my last thought. Don't let the
special ed folks interfere at all. You are a very smart, intuitive mom who
loves her son. Just relax and let him shine his own light.
Good luck!
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Woolfolk [mailto:jwoolfolk@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Kids With LDs and Unschooling
Hi all
This post is so hard to write, I'm not even sure
if it will come out sounding right.
My ds is 10 and we've always homeschooled. Last
week I had him tested for LDs. The results came
back as severely learning disabled (I really don't
have the particulars yet, I'm waiting for the
report).1st grade reading/ 2nd grade math. I knew
what it would be but for some reason having
someone else tell me put me into a tailspin. Maybe
it was their insistence that only a "special
education teacher" was the only one who could help
ds. I spent days coming up with a new "learning
program" to work with him that would include more
and more phonics practice. sigh, It was harder
that everyone who unschooled, that I knew, had
kids who were not having any problem picking up
reading. Whereas with ds it was and is like the
printed english language was a foreign language to
him.
I could cry. We started out saying we were
unschoolers but never really seemed to embrace it.
I kept saying I was unschooling but I have never
really trusted ds enough to truly give him his
lead. I always had to be trying to teach him to
read or do "a little" math with him. Once I
finally admitted we were not unschoolers I plunged
ds into "school at home" but he has never taken to
it or reading or math. School is what he does
around the things he wants to do.
Is it the schooling that makes the dyslexic? Maybe
ds would not be having problems with reading and
math if I had just followed his lead. He's always
said he's not interested in reading, does not
really care if he can't (Of course I've always put
that down to him not wanting to do something that
he fails at so he's got a type of "learned
helplessness" that he uses as a way to protect
himself)
In the last few days I've had to rethink
everything. I'm kinda lost right now. I'm not
really sure where we are heading. Is it that
school at home caused the LDs or does he really
have some processing problems that need to be
addressed? Is it still the problem of not working
with ds's strengths? Everything I read about
dyslexia/language disabilities states how you need
to be working with these kids in intensive phonics
programs like Spaulding or Orton-Gilliham(sp) and
the older they get the less chance there will ever
be for them to read fluently. I had a long talk
with a friend who has known us for years who just
belives ds needs more time.
Can I really drop the reading and math and let him
take his time to find his way with our help? Is it
still "unschooling" if your still insisting that
the child does his therapies (audiblox, braingym,
and earobics in our case) that will help in
processing if ds does really have Dyslexia. Kinda
like medicine for the brain. I guess I was
wondering if anyone with ld kids have been able to
let go and relax?
I hope I can lurk for awhile while I sort this all
out.
Julie W in AR
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I read your post and my heart goes out to you because it sounds like you are
really struggling right now.
I'm sure others will come through with better words for you. But I wanted to
let you know a couple things. First, the *testing* he went through is not
the end all be all. It is a snapshot in time with many variables involved.
Is there really such a thing as "1st grade reading"? My oldest (10 years
old) has developmental delays and was in public school for a few years. He
was constantly tested and we always treated that information as just another
tidbit to add to the other tidbits of information to gain knowledge on how
he learns.
Second, your ds is the same person to day as he was the time before the
tests. Sometimes I would let a particular test or report get to me. I found
myself responding to my son a little differently. It was like I was viewing
him in a different light. Boy did he pick up on that. I was pressuring him
to work harder...learn more. He was pushing back and just wanted me to quit.
Soon he would "shut down". He began to think that I thought there was
something wrong with him.
Now that he is home the only learning clock he is on is his own. We are
still working together to gain his confidence and love of learning back.
But he is so happy. Which brings me to my last thought. Don't let the
special ed folks interfere at all. You are a very smart, intuitive mom who
loves her son. Just relax and let him shine his own light.
Good luck!
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Woolfolk [mailto:jwoolfolk@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Kids With LDs and Unschooling
Hi all
This post is so hard to write, I'm not even sure
if it will come out sounding right.
My ds is 10 and we've always homeschooled. Last
week I had him tested for LDs. The results came
back as severely learning disabled (I really don't
have the particulars yet, I'm waiting for the
report).1st grade reading/ 2nd grade math. I knew
what it would be but for some reason having
someone else tell me put me into a tailspin. Maybe
it was their insistence that only a "special
education teacher" was the only one who could help
ds. I spent days coming up with a new "learning
program" to work with him that would include more
and more phonics practice. sigh, It was harder
that everyone who unschooled, that I knew, had
kids who were not having any problem picking up
reading. Whereas with ds it was and is like the
printed english language was a foreign language to
him.
I could cry. We started out saying we were
unschoolers but never really seemed to embrace it.
I kept saying I was unschooling but I have never
really trusted ds enough to truly give him his
lead. I always had to be trying to teach him to
read or do "a little" math with him. Once I
finally admitted we were not unschoolers I plunged
ds into "school at home" but he has never taken to
it or reading or math. School is what he does
around the things he wants to do.
Is it the schooling that makes the dyslexic? Maybe
ds would not be having problems with reading and
math if I had just followed his lead. He's always
said he's not interested in reading, does not
really care if he can't (Of course I've always put
that down to him not wanting to do something that
he fails at so he's got a type of "learned
helplessness" that he uses as a way to protect
himself)
In the last few days I've had to rethink
everything. I'm kinda lost right now. I'm not
really sure where we are heading. Is it that
school at home caused the LDs or does he really
have some processing problems that need to be
addressed? Is it still the problem of not working
with ds's strengths? Everything I read about
dyslexia/language disabilities states how you need
to be working with these kids in intensive phonics
programs like Spaulding or Orton-Gilliham(sp) and
the older they get the less chance there will ever
be for them to read fluently. I had a long talk
with a friend who has known us for years who just
belives ds needs more time.
Can I really drop the reading and math and let him
take his time to find his way with our help? Is it
still "unschooling" if your still insisting that
the child does his therapies (audiblox, braingym,
and earobics in our case) that will help in
processing if ds does really have Dyslexia. Kinda
like medicine for the brain. I guess I was
wondering if anyone with ld kids have been able to
let go and relax?
I hope I can lurk for awhile while I sort this all
out.
Julie W in AR
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Woolfolk
>OMG...that is exactly what I needed to hear (well
> <<Can I really drop the reading and math and let
> him
> take his time to find his way with our help? >>
>
> Your help hasn't been as helpful as you had
> hoped so far.
>
or read). It has not been helpful and dare I say
it may have been harmful. Another friend reminds
me that ds has always been very sure that he is
not ready to read nor does he care to
read.....what is it about the "reading" that gets
us so tense.
You know its really pathetic I've become like
everyone I disdained when we 1st started
homeschooling..."oh those "schoolathomers" sniff
sniff. Serves me right.
DS likes the idea of unschooling, always has,
maybe that's been the problem all along...ds the
unschooler and has pretty much ignored my attemps
to "help" him. I can remember when he 1st tyed his
shoes and rode a bike. Ds, of course, did it on
his timetable and taught himself.
He was pretty happy today with the conversation.
Now if I can just keep my hands off for awhile.
Thanks
Julie W in AR
Deb K.
I've decided there is nothing so magical about what the "professionals"
do. Don't be intimidated by them. My oldest son is 17 now, reads with no
problems, makes movies, writes scripts, etc., but it wasn't always like
that. At 10 years old he was severely struggling, at that time I was
convinced that he was dyslexic. (His dad is dyslexic.) He didn't get
anywhere with reading and spelling until I backed off and let him read only
things of interest to him - comic books, video game guides, etc.! He also
discovered when editing his own books recently that his spelling had
improved dramatically over the course of about two years.
Now, it is happening with my younger son, 11 years old. I am positive
that if I had him tested the results would only take away his confidence
(and mine).
Even my husband - after putting public school many years behind him - has
improved (in his reading and spelling skills). There was a time when I
NEVER saw him read. Now he currently has three books going at a time!
My suggestion is to not look at that report when it comes. Lock the
results away or burn them! The "professionals" don't know your son. He is
so lucky to be at home with you and not in the "system".
Deb K.
...My ds is 10 and we've always homeschooled.
Last
week I had him tested for LDs. The results came
back as severely learning disabled (I really don't
have the particulars yet, I'm waiting for the
report).1st grade reading/ 2nd grade math. I knew
what it would be but for some reason having
someone else tell me put me into a tailspin. Maybe
it was their insistence that only a "special
education teacher" was the only one who could help
ds. I spent days coming up with a new "learning
program" to work with him that would include more
and more phonics practice. sigh, It was harder
that everyone who unschooled, that I knew, had
kids who were not having any problem picking up
reading. Whereas with ds it was and is like the
printed english language was a foreign language to
him...
Julie W in AR
do. Don't be intimidated by them. My oldest son is 17 now, reads with no
problems, makes movies, writes scripts, etc., but it wasn't always like
that. At 10 years old he was severely struggling, at that time I was
convinced that he was dyslexic. (His dad is dyslexic.) He didn't get
anywhere with reading and spelling until I backed off and let him read only
things of interest to him - comic books, video game guides, etc.! He also
discovered when editing his own books recently that his spelling had
improved dramatically over the course of about two years.
Now, it is happening with my younger son, 11 years old. I am positive
that if I had him tested the results would only take away his confidence
(and mine).
Even my husband - after putting public school many years behind him - has
improved (in his reading and spelling skills). There was a time when I
NEVER saw him read. Now he currently has three books going at a time!
My suggestion is to not look at that report when it comes. Lock the
results away or burn them! The "professionals" don't know your son. He is
so lucky to be at home with you and not in the "system".
Deb K.
...My ds is 10 and we've always homeschooled.
Last
week I had him tested for LDs. The results came
back as severely learning disabled (I really don't
have the particulars yet, I'm waiting for the
report).1st grade reading/ 2nd grade math. I knew
what it would be but for some reason having
someone else tell me put me into a tailspin. Maybe
it was their insistence that only a "special
education teacher" was the only one who could help
ds. I spent days coming up with a new "learning
program" to work with him that would include more
and more phonics practice. sigh, It was harder
that everyone who unschooled, that I knew, had
kids who were not having any problem picking up
reading. Whereas with ds it was and is like the
printed english language was a foreign language to
him...
Julie W in AR
Liz Reid and Errol Strelnikoff
I posed this question to an alternative learning list I am on. This is the
most comprehensive of the answers I received. Regards,
Liz
for help as a mature student reading for my Degree.
Literally - Dyslexia means word blindness. Its not just a reluctance to
learn to read and or write it has within it a number of specific
difficulties which are characteristic of Dyslexia as well as some
characteristics which may be regarded as beneficial (for example in the
mid 1980's it was noted that 9 out of ten of the worlds highest paid
architects were profoundly Dyslexic. The man who produced the
motherboard for the first Apple Mac was dyslexic) a remarkably high
proportion of Nobel Laureates are dyslexic.
While there are some who believe that it is a product of poor teaching
there are others who believe that it is physiological. It is certainly
true that the brains of Dyslexics are structured differently to those of
non-dyslexics - this has been known to be the case since the mid 1970's.
This could however be an effect rather than a cause as the brain is
dynamic - it changes its structure depending upon the environment it
finds itself in - so as far as I understand it the jury is out.
Either way dyslexia presents real problems for which there are specific
methods which can be used to help solve them. There are some specific
teaching methods for this problem - you need to know what they are -
some are very effective - there are some good mailing lists in the
internet where these are discussed (there is a good group run by the UK
home education community)
His self esteem is probably low and needs a boost, find an activity in
which he excels. Encourage him to be in situations where he can gain
peer status. I used to do First aid up to competition level and was team
captain and loved it - no writing involved and a useful skill. In the UK
we have Red Cross and St. Johns organisations who do this for example -
it also put me top of the year at school for anatomy by the age of 15 I
probably know more anatomy than any pupil the school had ever had and
gave the science teacher who had a remarkably low opinion of me quite a
surprise when I know the Latin names of nearly all 206 bones of the body
:).
Use computers with spell checking facilities - get a full copy of
Outlook perhaps where the email facility uses Word to write the emails,
thus spell checking occurs as it does in word - while you are actually
typing the email - this assists the child to analyse their mistakes as
they write them and gives them confidence to actually write. Remember
that when he does write anything you must approach the subject
separately to the way he express's himself. It is common for example for
dyslexics find alternative words to those they find difficult - this
makes written work look idiosyncratic at best - a word I came to loath
at school (Michael has an idiosyncratic way of expressing himself...) to
be fair on re reading my work my sentences were so convoluted it looked
like a poor attempt to copy the style of Charles Dickens.
Remember using a PC is very useful but since typing uses a different
part of the brain to writing with pen and paper it means that one may
learn a spelling on a PC but still have difficulties on paper.
I would not send a child with dyslexia to a state school for a couple of
reasons. Firstly children in school can be very cruel - he will appear
to be stupid to them and will be constantly pointed out either by
insensitive teaching staff of by his separate teaching regime - he is
therefore likely to be bullied and treated as stupid by the other
children.
He will probably be grouped together with children with other learning
difficulties - this fails to recognise his real intelligence and
abilities to learn. He will become bored and frustrated. He may even
become disruptive and difficult to teach. Schools rarely recognise this
chain of events and will probably believe that he is ADHD or some such
pseudo scientific label. Schools rarely have the staff with enough
training to be able to provide a sufficiently high quality of help. And
its remarkable how many teachers are totally ignorant of Dyslexia.
Use visual teaching methods pictures and experiential learning methods
for example, film media is probably one of the best. I used to watch TV
documentaries - I was practically addicted to them. I'd say that most of
my early education was gained from the BBC.
Above all don't pressure him into reading or writing - it won't work, he
will come around to it eventually. He will come to realise that he needs
it for daily functionality. Encourage him when he shows an interest.
Best Wishes
Mike FW
your man in the hammock
http://www.home-education.org.uk
mike@...
http://www.learning-unlimited.org<<
most comprehensive of the answers I received. Regards,
Liz
>>Just some thoughtsI am Dyslexic, for me it was only diagnosed when I approached a doctor
for help as a mature student reading for my Degree.
Literally - Dyslexia means word blindness. Its not just a reluctance to
learn to read and or write it has within it a number of specific
difficulties which are characteristic of Dyslexia as well as some
characteristics which may be regarded as beneficial (for example in the
mid 1980's it was noted that 9 out of ten of the worlds highest paid
architects were profoundly Dyslexic. The man who produced the
motherboard for the first Apple Mac was dyslexic) a remarkably high
proportion of Nobel Laureates are dyslexic.
While there are some who believe that it is a product of poor teaching
there are others who believe that it is physiological. It is certainly
true that the brains of Dyslexics are structured differently to those of
non-dyslexics - this has been known to be the case since the mid 1970's.
This could however be an effect rather than a cause as the brain is
dynamic - it changes its structure depending upon the environment it
finds itself in - so as far as I understand it the jury is out.
Either way dyslexia presents real problems for which there are specific
methods which can be used to help solve them. There are some specific
teaching methods for this problem - you need to know what they are -
some are very effective - there are some good mailing lists in the
internet where these are discussed (there is a good group run by the UK
home education community)
His self esteem is probably low and needs a boost, find an activity in
which he excels. Encourage him to be in situations where he can gain
peer status. I used to do First aid up to competition level and was team
captain and loved it - no writing involved and a useful skill. In the UK
we have Red Cross and St. Johns organisations who do this for example -
it also put me top of the year at school for anatomy by the age of 15 I
probably know more anatomy than any pupil the school had ever had and
gave the science teacher who had a remarkably low opinion of me quite a
surprise when I know the Latin names of nearly all 206 bones of the body
:).
Use computers with spell checking facilities - get a full copy of
Outlook perhaps where the email facility uses Word to write the emails,
thus spell checking occurs as it does in word - while you are actually
typing the email - this assists the child to analyse their mistakes as
they write them and gives them confidence to actually write. Remember
that when he does write anything you must approach the subject
separately to the way he express's himself. It is common for example for
dyslexics find alternative words to those they find difficult - this
makes written work look idiosyncratic at best - a word I came to loath
at school (Michael has an idiosyncratic way of expressing himself...) to
be fair on re reading my work my sentences were so convoluted it looked
like a poor attempt to copy the style of Charles Dickens.
Remember using a PC is very useful but since typing uses a different
part of the brain to writing with pen and paper it means that one may
learn a spelling on a PC but still have difficulties on paper.
I would not send a child with dyslexia to a state school for a couple of
reasons. Firstly children in school can be very cruel - he will appear
to be stupid to them and will be constantly pointed out either by
insensitive teaching staff of by his separate teaching regime - he is
therefore likely to be bullied and treated as stupid by the other
children.
He will probably be grouped together with children with other learning
difficulties - this fails to recognise his real intelligence and
abilities to learn. He will become bored and frustrated. He may even
become disruptive and difficult to teach. Schools rarely recognise this
chain of events and will probably believe that he is ADHD or some such
pseudo scientific label. Schools rarely have the staff with enough
training to be able to provide a sufficiently high quality of help. And
its remarkable how many teachers are totally ignorant of Dyslexia.
Use visual teaching methods pictures and experiential learning methods
for example, film media is probably one of the best. I used to watch TV
documentaries - I was practically addicted to them. I'd say that most of
my early education was gained from the BBC.
Above all don't pressure him into reading or writing - it won't work, he
will come around to it eventually. He will come to realise that he needs
it for daily functionality. Encourage him when he shows an interest.
Best Wishes
Mike FW
your man in the hammock
http://www.home-education.org.uk
mike@...
http://www.learning-unlimited.org<<
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/29/02 9:47:20 AM, lizanderrol@... writes:
<< Best Wishes
Mike FW
your man in the hammock >>
I posed this question to an alternative learning list I am on. This is the
most comprehensive of the answers I received. Regards,
Is that online somewhere?
If so, could you ask this Mike if I can link to it?
If not, could you ask Mike if I can put it online?
It's incredible.
My dad could hardly read, but he could build and fix and THINK up a storm.
Sandra
<< Best Wishes
Mike FW
your man in the hammock >>
I posed this question to an alternative learning list I am on. This is the
most comprehensive of the answers I received. Regards,
Is that online somewhere?
If so, could you ask this Mike if I can link to it?
If not, could you ask Mike if I can put it online?
It's incredible.
My dad could hardly read, but he could build and fix and THINK up a storm.
Sandra
Liz Reid and Errol Strelnikoff
Below I have pasted two more responses to the question I posed the other
alt. ed. list.
Liz
answer to your question under this subject heading. I'm writing in
support of his response and because I think your topic is such an
important one (hey, it's motivated me to actually say something to the
list for the first time in a while).
Here at PSCS in Seattle we have tended to attract a lot of young people
who have been classified in other settings as "dyslexic" (btw, we
absolutely stay away from labels when talking about our students). In
some cases the right approach has been to back off and let them find their
way, believing that the pressure put on them in these other settings is
the root of the problem. But this "one size fits all" approach, which
seems to be what is being suggested on the other mailing list, is not
always right.
I won't repeat the list of other causes and contributing factors that
Chris mentioned (see below), but I will say what he said about trying to
find the best way to teach each child. Me, my educational background is
in Special Ed (a misnomer if ever there was one). As an ungrad at The
Evergreen State College I did extensive research into "special education"
across cultures and, not surprisingly, discovered how much more prevalent
learning problems are now than in the past. There are certainly a lot of
theories as to why this is, but that is not relevant here. The personal
result of my research left me believing that our current system is
basically backwards and horribly disrespectful (not too groundbreaking for
people on this list, obviously). It nearly took me in another
professional direction.
This past year, having shied away from what I saw as "canned approaches"
to addressing children with learning differences since college, I started
studying the work of Mel Levine and his colleagues. I am very impressed
with what they are doing, especially after having attended their "Schools
Attuned" training in Palo Alto in June. Certainly, their focus is on the
mainstream school systems but many of their applications fit well for
those of us working in free schools.
In short, the Levine approach takes a neurodevelopmental perspective to
addressing students with learning differences, believing that every
person's brain is uniquely "wired." A profile of the child is developed
based on input from the child, the child's parents, and teachers. From
that profile, the child's strengths and weaknesses are highlighted.
Helpful accommodations (things the school should do to assist the child)
are suggested and specific interventions (strategies designed to help the
child) are offered. The child is involved in the most respectful and
honoring way every step of the process. Strengths are emphasized.
Labels are avoided.
My simplistic explanation does not give the concept justice and,
certainly, parents and educators should adapt things to fit their needs
and settings. And I recognize that such an approach may run counter to
how most people in the free/alternative school world think. Regardless,
I'd encourage you, Liz (and others interested), to check out:
http://www.allkindsofminds.org/
Kindest regards,
Andy Smallman
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
Puget Sound Community School
1115 E Denny Way, Seattle, WA 98122
www.pscs.org pscs@...
206.324.4350
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
alt. ed. list.
Liz
>>Liz et al,First, I've included Chris's message below because I think it's a perfect
answer to your question under this subject heading. I'm writing in
support of his response and because I think your topic is such an
important one (hey, it's motivated me to actually say something to the
list for the first time in a while).
Here at PSCS in Seattle we have tended to attract a lot of young people
who have been classified in other settings as "dyslexic" (btw, we
absolutely stay away from labels when talking about our students). In
some cases the right approach has been to back off and let them find their
way, believing that the pressure put on them in these other settings is
the root of the problem. But this "one size fits all" approach, which
seems to be what is being suggested on the other mailing list, is not
always right.
I won't repeat the list of other causes and contributing factors that
Chris mentioned (see below), but I will say what he said about trying to
find the best way to teach each child. Me, my educational background is
in Special Ed (a misnomer if ever there was one). As an ungrad at The
Evergreen State College I did extensive research into "special education"
across cultures and, not surprisingly, discovered how much more prevalent
learning problems are now than in the past. There are certainly a lot of
theories as to why this is, but that is not relevant here. The personal
result of my research left me believing that our current system is
basically backwards and horribly disrespectful (not too groundbreaking for
people on this list, obviously). It nearly took me in another
professional direction.
This past year, having shied away from what I saw as "canned approaches"
to addressing children with learning differences since college, I started
studying the work of Mel Levine and his colleagues. I am very impressed
with what they are doing, especially after having attended their "Schools
Attuned" training in Palo Alto in June. Certainly, their focus is on the
mainstream school systems but many of their applications fit well for
those of us working in free schools.
In short, the Levine approach takes a neurodevelopmental perspective to
addressing students with learning differences, believing that every
person's brain is uniquely "wired." A profile of the child is developed
based on input from the child, the child's parents, and teachers. From
that profile, the child's strengths and weaknesses are highlighted.
Helpful accommodations (things the school should do to assist the child)
are suggested and specific interventions (strategies designed to help the
child) are offered. The child is involved in the most respectful and
honoring way every step of the process. Strengths are emphasized.
Labels are avoided.
My simplistic explanation does not give the concept justice and,
certainly, parents and educators should adapt things to fit their needs
and settings. And I recognize that such an approach may run counter to
how most people in the free/alternative school world think. Regardless,
I'd encourage you, Liz (and others interested), to check out:
http://www.allkindsofminds.org/
Kindest regards,
Andy Smallman
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
Puget Sound Community School
1115 E Denny Way, Seattle, WA 98122
www.pscs.org pscs@...
206.324.4350
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Chris Mercogliano wrote:
> I think it's important to remember that "dyslexia" simply means
> difficulty with reading. Here at the Albany Free School we don't sweat
> it if a ten year old isn't reading fluently yet. But we do ask why
> not. Of course the first question is does the child have his or her
> own reasons for wanting to learn? If he or she does, then the next
> question is, is there something blocking the learning? Is the child
> too anxious, too riled up, too distractible? Or has someone turned
> reading into an onerous chore? There are more possiblities of course,
> depending on the child, but this gives you an idea of our thinking.
> Then if a child is intent on learning to read but it isn't coming
> easily -- which is usually the case because kids whose brains are
> naturally attuned to reading learn to read almost automatically --
> then we figure out the best way to teach that particular child (there
> are an infinite number of ways to do it), making sure of course that
> it is a freely chosen, pleasurable, successful, unhurried experience.
> Two things we never do: We don't say the child has a reading problem,
> and we don't take the child's process away from him or her.
>
> So here, it's of little concern to us when a child learns to read. The
> only limitation sometimes is that we end after the eighth grade and if
> kids are going on to high school after they leave us, then they
> obviously need to master reading before they go. In our thirty-three
> years, it has rarely been a problem. Reading just isn't that
> difficult, once the impediments if there are any have been addressed.
>
>
> Chris Mercogliano<<
Liz Reid and Errol Strelnikoff
> Is that online somewhere?I doubt it is online as he wrote it in response to my question. I shall ask
> If so, could you ask this Mike if I can link to it?
> If not, could you ask Mike if I can put it online?
>
> It's incredible.
> My dad could hardly read, but he could build and fix and THINK up a storm.
>
> Sandra
him for you if you like.
Liz
mabeitzel
We went to the Student Success Center with our son before we left
the states. This is part of all kinds of minds program under Dr.
Mel Levine. I have the book "All Kinds of Minds." I also have a
few of the tapes i.e. self-esteem. The assessment they did was
extremely helpful in that it came at a time when I was needing help
desparately. The school psy. had just told me our son would need to
carry either learning disabled or mentally disabled. I was assured
by the center that our son was in NO way mentally disabled. They
were able to highlight his strengths and they never used labels.
They were all very nice and genuinely concerned. The only part I
was not too keen on was the fact that the med.doctor did recommend
medication, but he did so respectively. I thought it strange when
he said, "it was recommended that our own child be medicated, but we
chose not to." Nevertheless, he respected my decision to not go
that route. One other thing...the report suggested that the teacher
talk to the children in the class about how my son learns
differently while he was not in the classroom. I'm don't think I
like that idea...it seems it would really set him apart and kids can
be terribly cruel. To his teacher's credit at the time, she felt
the same and did not do it. Their learning specialist came out to
my son's school and talked with his spec. needs team and teacher
about things they could do and how to approach his learning. His
teacher at the time was already doing most of it. I find now as I
look over the report (in giving it to the school here) that some of
the tactics I am sure a school the size of the one here would laugh
at. Just because it would be near to impossible to enforce them.
Here they group the spec. needs kids together in one classroom with
a few reg. ed kids. The big problem that presented for us is that
many of the children he was in class with had major behavior issues
(wonder why?) and he was showing an attitude he had NEVER shown
before. He was dealing with a lot more aggressive, mean behavior
and comments. Anyway, Dr. Levine's program helped me to understand
better how my son perceives things and processes things. It gave me
a confidence that I greatly needed. I met with the principal of his
school (there not here)prior to the year starting and she said to
me, never having met my son, "Just be prepared that he is going to
have to repeat 2nd grade and then I am not sure THAT will even be
enough." Just makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over! So we are
here now, unschooling.
Michelle B.
the states. This is part of all kinds of minds program under Dr.
Mel Levine. I have the book "All Kinds of Minds." I also have a
few of the tapes i.e. self-esteem. The assessment they did was
extremely helpful in that it came at a time when I was needing help
desparately. The school psy. had just told me our son would need to
carry either learning disabled or mentally disabled. I was assured
by the center that our son was in NO way mentally disabled. They
were able to highlight his strengths and they never used labels.
They were all very nice and genuinely concerned. The only part I
was not too keen on was the fact that the med.doctor did recommend
medication, but he did so respectively. I thought it strange when
he said, "it was recommended that our own child be medicated, but we
chose not to." Nevertheless, he respected my decision to not go
that route. One other thing...the report suggested that the teacher
talk to the children in the class about how my son learns
differently while he was not in the classroom. I'm don't think I
like that idea...it seems it would really set him apart and kids can
be terribly cruel. To his teacher's credit at the time, she felt
the same and did not do it. Their learning specialist came out to
my son's school and talked with his spec. needs team and teacher
about things they could do and how to approach his learning. His
teacher at the time was already doing most of it. I find now as I
look over the report (in giving it to the school here) that some of
the tactics I am sure a school the size of the one here would laugh
at. Just because it would be near to impossible to enforce them.
Here they group the spec. needs kids together in one classroom with
a few reg. ed kids. The big problem that presented for us is that
many of the children he was in class with had major behavior issues
(wonder why?) and he was showing an attitude he had NEVER shown
before. He was dealing with a lot more aggressive, mean behavior
and comments. Anyway, Dr. Levine's program helped me to understand
better how my son perceives things and processes things. It gave me
a confidence that I greatly needed. I met with the principal of his
school (there not here)prior to the year starting and she said to
me, never having met my son, "Just be prepared that he is going to
have to repeat 2nd grade and then I am not sure THAT will even be
enough." Just makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over! So we are
here now, unschooling.
Michelle B.
Betsy
**
This past year, having shied away from what I saw as "canned approaches"
to addressing children with learning differences since college, I started
studying the work of Mel Levine and his colleagues.**
Didn't he publish a book about either education or learning sometime in
the last year? I don't remember the details. Has anyone read his book?
Or heard of it and remembers the title?
Betsy
This past year, having shied away from what I saw as "canned approaches"
to addressing children with learning differences since college, I started
studying the work of Mel Levine and his colleagues.**
Didn't he publish a book about either education or learning sometime in
the last year? I don't remember the details. Has anyone read his book?
Or heard of it and remembers the title?
Betsy
mabeitzel
Yes, Dr. Levine has written several, one being "All Kinds of Minds"
and a newer one that I am blanking on. The website to check is
www.allkindsofminds.org and I believe their is a link for a
bookstore on there where you will can find his books and more.
Michelle B.
and a newer one that I am blanking on. The website to check is
www.allkindsofminds.org and I believe their is a link for a
bookstore on there where you will can find his books and more.
Michelle B.
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Betsy <ecsamhill@e...> wrote:
> **
>
> This past year, having shied away from what I saw as "canned
approaches"
> to addressing children with learning differences since college, I
started
> studying the work of Mel Levine and his colleagues.**
>
> Didn't he publish a book about either education or learning
sometime in
> the last year? I don't remember the details. Has anyone read his
book?
> Or heard of it and remembers the title?
>
> Betsy
Liz Reid and Errol Strelnikoff
> Is that online somewhere?Sandra,
> If so, could you ask this Mike if I can link to it?
> If not, could you ask Mike if I can put it online?
>
> It's incredible.
> My dad could hardly read, but he could build and fix and THINK up a storm.
>
> Sandra
He said you could. Here is the version:
>>This is a more thought out version of what I wrote the other day.Since a couple of people have approached me off list regarding this.
Best Wishes
Mike FW
your man in the hammock
*********************************
Some thoughts about Dyslexia
I am Dyslexic, for me it was only diagnosed when I approached a doctor
for help as a mature student reading for my Degree. This meant that my
experience of school was miserable. However having run a Home education
website in the UK for more than two years I have come to the conclusion
that for many children even when they are diagnosed and provided with
special help it is still a difficult time.
Literally - Dyslexia means word blindness. Its not just a reluctance to
learn to read and or write it has within it a number of specific
difficulties characteristic of Dyslexia as well as some characteristics
which may be regarded as beneficial. for example Dyslexics tend to have
higher than average IQ and significantly better spatial awareness. In
the mid 1980's it was noted that nine out of ten of the worlds highest
paid architects were profoundly Dyslexic. The man who produced the
motherboard for the first Apple Mac was dyslexic a remarkably high
proportion of Nobel Laureates are dyslexic. It has even been argued that
Einstein, Leonardo De Vincy and Shakespeare were dyslexic. Shakespeare
rarely even used the same spelling of his name twice.
Dyslexia manifests itself in different ways. Some children find reading
difficult others find spelling impossible, yet others will find both
difficult. Generally my reading was good but my spelling was very poor.
Under pressure however my ability to read accurately declined. This
meant that under exam conditions I would frequently mis-read the
questions I was being asked - thus my answers were wrong.
While there are some who believe that dyslexia is a product of poor
teaching there are others who believe that it is physiological. It has
been known since the mid 1970's that the brains of Dyslexics are
structured differently to those of non-dyslexics. This could however be
an effect rather than a cause as the brain is dynamic - it changes its
structure depending upon the environment it finds itself in - so as far
as I understand it the jury is out.
Either way dyslexia presents real problems for which there are specific
teaching methods which can be used to help solve them. Parents of
Dyslexic children need to know what they are as I understand that some
are very effective - there are some good mailing lists in the internet
where these are discussed (there is a good group run by the UK home
education community).
The self esteem of Dyslexic children is often low and needs a boost.
Parents can help by finding an activity in which s/he excels. Encourage
your child to be in situations where s/he can gain peer status. I used
to do First aid up to competition level and was captain of a successful
team and loved it - no writing was involved and it was a useful skill -
it put me top of the year at school for anatomy. By the age of 15 I
probably know more anatomy than any pupil the school had ever had and
gave the science teacher who had a remarkably low opinion of me quite a
surprise when I know the Latin names of nearly all 206 bones of the body
:). For my English verbal test at the age of sixteen I chose the subject
of the Lymph nodes.
Use computers with spell checking facilities and grammar checking. A
full copy of Outlook perhaps where the email facility uses Word to write
the emails, thus spell grammar checking and occurs as it does in word -
while you are actually typing the email - this assists the child to
analyse their mistakes as they write them and gives them confidence to
actually write remember Latter and Later are both correct spellings of
words but the dyslexic child will not know which is which so a grammar
checker is essential. It is also common for example for dyslexics find
alternative words to those they find difficult - this makes written work
look idiosyncratic at best - a word I came to loath at school (Michael
has an idiosyncratic way of expressing himself...) to be fair on re
reading my work my sentences were so convoluted it looked like a poor
attempt to copy the style of Charles Dickens.
When s/he does write anything you must approach the subject separately
to the way he express's himself. There is nothing worse for a Dyslexic
child to write a great story than to find that the parent concentrates
on the mis-spellings and ignores his creative effort - s/he will soon
stop writing altogether if the result is ridiculed and there is no
reward for doing so.
Remember using a PC is very useful but since typing uses a different
part of the brain to writing with pen and paper it means that one may
learn a spelling on a PC but still have difficulties on paper. In my
professional life no one ever ever sees anything I write by hand - even
memos.
I would not send a child with dyslexia to a state school for a couple of
reasons. Firstly children in school can be very cruel - he will appear
to be stupid to them and will be constantly pointed out either by
insensitive teaching staff of by his separate teaching regime - he is
therefore likely to be bullied and treated as stupid by the other
children.
He will probably be grouped together with children with other learning
difficulties - this fails to recognise his real intelligence and
abilities to learn. He will become bored and frustrated. He may even
become disruptive and difficult to teach. Schools rarely recognise this
chain of events and will probably believe that he is ADHD or some such
pseudo scientific label. Schools rarely have the staff with enough
training to be able to provide a sufficiently high quality of help. And
its remarkable how many teachers are totally ignorant of Dyslexia. Even
at University I was consistently marked down by a Politics lecturer who
insisted that I was just careless - this after a half dozen re-writes,
with fresh mistakes each time. Without the computer I bought in my
second year at incredible cost in those days - I would not have been
able to complete my degree.
Use visual teaching methods, pictures and experiential learning methods
for example; film media is probably one of the best. I used to watch TV
documentaries - I was practically addicted to them. I'd say that most of
my early education was gained from the BBC.
Above all don't pressure him into reading or writing - it won't work, he
will come around to it eventually. He will come to realise that he needs
it for daily functionality. Encourage him when he shows an interest. And
praise his efforts.
Having Dyslexia does not mean that your child is doomed to go through
life unable to spell or read. It normally improves over time. As time
goes by your child will develop strategies for dealing with certain
problems. Technology today is a terrific boon. Personally I'd recommend
marrying someone who is a walking dictionary.
Best Wishes
Mike FW
your man in the hammock
http://www.home-education.org.uk
mike@...
http://www.learning-unlimited.org<<
Tia Leschke
> Did you, or does anyone know of the site which recommends using a coloredtransperancy over the writing to help a child read. I don't remember the
URL. I did ask my daughter, as she was watching BETWEEN THE LIONS, taking
in how the show highlighted the words of the book they were reading, whether
that made it clearer to her, and she felt it did. I don't know all the
particulars. You may simply want to cut out a pale colored piece of
transparency and place it over the words. Try different colors etc,
lengthening the transparency as he becomes better at reading the words.
Irlen's Syndrome. Try googling it. I had my son tested, and he had it. He
said the coloured overlays helped, but not enough to make it worth using
them.
Tia
Vicki A. Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 7:48 AM
But the labeling, pressure and testing will make it take longer,
because he'll have to recover now from the attempts to help him.
I felt compelled to paste this in all by itself so it might be easily read or read again.
I cringe at the obsession with intensive phonics as a cure-all. My younger was recently given a battery of standardized tests (he is now in college) so that he could have the magic paper allowing him to use a keyboard instead of handwriting for ANY class. For what it is worth, standardized tests have usually ranked his reading comprehension extremely high. The M. Ed. testing him thought he needed all sorts of remedial phonics work since he had difficulty on the subtest for "decoding nonsense words". Yes, let me try to make this clear. He reads English fluently....both silently and aloud.
He has an impressive vocabulary and usually has the "correct" pronunciation for any unfamiliar words he might encounter in text. But because he can not sound out what someone else would consider the proper pronunciation for a string of letters that do not form any word known to English speakers, he is supposed to undergo intensive remediation. I think some followers of the phonics cult have it backward. Phonics should be one or many tools that might be tried to make reading easier. Supposed to be the means to an end............not the end itself!
I firmly believe that many of the 8-12 year olds with "severe problems with reading" would probably BE reading well if there had not been such intensive intervention at ages 5-7!! Or even younger it seems nowadays.
I DO recognize it is hard NOT to be worried. My older son (who intermittently attended out of home private schools and occasionally took standardized tests) went from basically being a non-reader at age 9 to reading at what the standardized test ranked as "college freshman" at age 10. Despite my recognizing that the older one was reading fluently, I still was sometimes uncomfortable when the younger one turned 6 and 7 and 8 and was "still" not reading.
Hard to "keep the faith" even when evidence is before your eyes.
By age 10, HE was sometimes upset although I would try to assure him that he could read more than he was giving himself credit for and that the day would come when it would be easier. In the meantime, it was sensible to utilize his strengths (such as an incredible memory) in getting on with exploring life.
I don't really remember exactly when he started reading "full-length" "adult" books in addition to manuals and magazines and "trivia" books but it was definitely in his teens.
Yes, he does have some processing difficulties...... the kind that give him a "professionally diagnosed reading disability" even at age 18. However, he has pretty well worked out his own means of compensating. Watching his peers over the years (many who had reading tutors at age 7), I figure that had we bought into "early intervention" , it is possible he would be truly handicapped by an inability to read for himself. Instead, he reads for pleasure AND is able to read whatever he wants. His reading speed might not be optimum (his silent reading not terribly faster than vocalized reading) but he does NOT find reading to be unpleasant or a duty. And no, at present we are not doing any "treatment" for the diagnosed disabilities.
I think it was important that I not only avoided "therapies" and "remediation" but that I was consistent in assuring him that he "would" be able to read. That if he wasn't reading yet, it was because it was not yet time for him to. And that when it WAS time, it would not be so difficult.
vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/9/03 11:19:09 PM, mamaxaos@... writes:
<< because he can not sound out what someone else would consider the proper
pronunciation for a string of letters that do not form any word known to
English speakers, he is supposed to undergo intensive remediation. >>
My first thought was " test of faith of the Phonics Inquisition!"
and then I read the next line, which was...
<<I think some followers of the phonics cult have it backward>>
<<I firmly believe that many of the 8-12 year olds with "severe problems with
reading" would probably BE reading well if there had not been such intensive
intervention at ages 5-7!! Or even younger it seems nowadays. >>
Yes, and MANY adults just don't want to read any more than they would want to
get shots for fun or drink yucky medicine for snacks. They have reading
filed under "horrible torture to be avoided at all costs as soon as I am out
of this prison," and to some that comes upon them very, very early.
Carol Rice, who wrote about her four children all reading late, got her first
piece of critical feedback yesterday. She was upset, and I was expecting
something HORRIBLE, but it wasn't so bad. It was a kindergarten teacher
telling her that if she had used this or that her kids would have read
sooner, like THIS woman's kids, one of whom as a teen is a messed up human
who left home early... (why she included that, I don't know; Carol has GREAT
relationships with all her kids, the 18 year old are still living at home...)
BUT the clincher was a mention of them missing great literature. Like
Clifford books.
Now I haven't read a lot of Clifford books, although I've seen a couple, but
they offering life lessons children couldn't be without.
Carol wrote, " She is stupid to think I didn't read to my kids. I read a
huge array of books to my kids. And none of them turned out to be
nightmares. "
So it seems the defenses of those who are sure they are right and we are
wrong are weak even when they have time to prepare an argument, proofread it
and launch it away.
But our luxury is being off the assembly line. If Holly wasn't reading at
nine, she had other ways to learn and tons of other things to do, because
nobody was setting her down in a desk and giving her fourth grade busywork
which requires reading at a fourth grade level.
Some skills are only needed in school.
Sandra
<< because he can not sound out what someone else would consider the proper
pronunciation for a string of letters that do not form any word known to
English speakers, he is supposed to undergo intensive remediation. >>
My first thought was " test of faith of the Phonics Inquisition!"
and then I read the next line, which was...
<<I think some followers of the phonics cult have it backward>>
<<I firmly believe that many of the 8-12 year olds with "severe problems with
reading" would probably BE reading well if there had not been such intensive
intervention at ages 5-7!! Or even younger it seems nowadays. >>
Yes, and MANY adults just don't want to read any more than they would want to
get shots for fun or drink yucky medicine for snacks. They have reading
filed under "horrible torture to be avoided at all costs as soon as I am out
of this prison," and to some that comes upon them very, very early.
Carol Rice, who wrote about her four children all reading late, got her first
piece of critical feedback yesterday. She was upset, and I was expecting
something HORRIBLE, but it wasn't so bad. It was a kindergarten teacher
telling her that if she had used this or that her kids would have read
sooner, like THIS woman's kids, one of whom as a teen is a messed up human
who left home early... (why she included that, I don't know; Carol has GREAT
relationships with all her kids, the 18 year old are still living at home...)
BUT the clincher was a mention of them missing great literature. Like
Clifford books.
Now I haven't read a lot of Clifford books, although I've seen a couple, but
they offering life lessons children couldn't be without.
Carol wrote, " She is stupid to think I didn't read to my kids. I read a
huge array of books to my kids. And none of them turned out to be
nightmares. "
So it seems the defenses of those who are sure they are right and we are
wrong are weak even when they have time to prepare an argument, proofread it
and launch it away.
But our luxury is being off the assembly line. If Holly wasn't reading at
nine, she had other ways to learn and tons of other things to do, because
nobody was setting her down in a desk and giving her fourth grade busywork
which requires reading at a fourth grade level.
Some skills are only needed in school.
Sandra
Bill and Diane
>There are also some risks with reading early. I know a young 3-year-old
>
><<I firmly believe that many of the 8-12 year olds with "severe problems with
>reading" would probably BE reading well if there had not been such intensive
>intervention at ages 5-7!! Or even younger it seems nowadays. >>
>
who recognizes many words, and one of those is "danger." She becomes
frightened of many things (a train ride with a "danger--bridge out"
sign, the bunk beds with their warning labels, the warning label on the
Little Tykes slide). She's afraid of many really age-appropriate things,
because she has access to information that's not intended for her, and
lacks the capacity to process it and to discriminate.
Anyway, that's my rant of the day, and yes, I know if she wants to read
she'll learn, and I know she'll learn to process this fearful
information, but it's just frustrating to me right now.
:-) Diane