Lee Roversi

Aloha dear listmates-

I need some help from you veterans (and maybe even some not-so-veterans!)

My son, Bay, is just turned 12. He a kind, centered, precious boy. I am
feeling those old qualms about this schooling path come up for me, however
(partially brought on by an ex-husband who is not understanding unschooling).

A bit of background . . . son Sky (19) and daughter Nell (16) went to our
local small Waldorf school through 6th grade . . . had really positive
experiences and when the options for jr/high school ran out - they came
home and did a curriculum for a bit, then went to Not Back to School Camp
and were inspired to throw the whole thing out and unschool, which has
really gone well for them both, with me in a supportive position. Bay went
to the same Waldorf school and really disliked it from the beginning -
resisted the form from the get-go. So, I cajolled him for a time and then
saw the idiocy in that and brought him home when the signs were clear, in
4th grade, that it was insane. He has never done a curriculum. He dislikes
sitting down to 'do' math - but seems to have a good grasp of the way it
works. He reads really well, but doesn't enjoy reading much (in this family
- that is downright bizarre!) He has an electric guitar, but doesn't play
it much and doesn't seem to want to try another instrument. He doesn't like
to write. What he likes to do is move - surf, skateboard. His greatest
passion now is dirtbiking. He has saved from his landscape maintenance jobs
almost enough money to buy his own! He mows and weedwhacks our entire 4
acres. He is interested in motors and such. He likes the computer - plays
Motocross Madness and Age of Empires and such with his brother and his
friends. Likes his Gameboy. He is social to the max - and is the only
homeschooled boy his age on the entire northshore of Kauai. He likes
television, but the good opportunities for viewing are rare. He likes
storytapes and, even more, the stories his older brother weaves for him all
the time. When nothing is 'happening' around here, he has a lament of "I'm
bored - what can I do?" My suggestions are often met with disdane.

I am feeling like he is not getting a strong educational experience - will
be 'weak' in his language arts and math skills. (Go easy on me, folks -
these are my deep-seated fears from decades of conditioning and too many
recent conversations/attacks with ex-husband! - and, remember, his siblings
unschooling experiences came later, when their skills/learning patterns
were in place.) I worry that Bay is easily bored and would spend hours only
on the computer, if he were able (we have to share one computer for all 4
of us, so that is not possible). With the children's help, I run three home
businesses, so my time is maxed out often, although I am here.

Any ideas/thought/suggestions/support would be really appreciated. Let me
give you any more background, if it would help - I'm really needing some
input from this great list.

Warmly, Lee
North Country Farms
An Organic Family Farm & Tropical B&B Cottages
. . . an eco-tourism destination . . .
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, HI 96754
http://www.northcountryfarms.com
808-828-1513 phone and voice mail

Valerie

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Lee Roversi <ncfarms@a...> wrote:
>
> Aloha dear listmates-
>
> I need some help from you veterans (and maybe even some not-so-
veterans!)
>
> My son, Bay, is just turned 12. He a kind, centered, precious boy.
I am
> feeling those old qualms about this schooling path come up for me,
however
> (partially brought on by an ex-husband who is not understanding
unschooling).

******* Hi Lee... here's a bit of my background so you'll see where
I'm coming from. My daughter Laurie is 22 and was unschooled all of
her life. She now has a BS in Sociology and is continuing her
education. Her father (now my ex) pushed me to put her in school too.
When she was midway through college, he thanked me for not listening
to him. Ask him to read some books about unschooling? Mine wouldn't
read them.. he already knew everything. (sarcasm bigtime)

When nothing is 'happening' around here, he has a lament of "I'm
> bored - what can I do?" My suggestions are often met with disdane.

******* I've found that when someone says they are bored, they don't
want suggestions, they just want to know someone hears them. Someone
to empathize with what they're feeling.

> I am feeling like he is not getting a strong educational
experience - will be 'weak' in his language arts and math skills.

*******If he's allowed to pursue his true interests, he will become
strong in language arts and math skills when he needs them. Right now
he's too busy to care. He's interested in motors, he'll learn math
without even realizing it. A strong educational experience is not a
good thing when it's forced upon someone. It becomes torture.

> I worry that Bay is easily bored and would spend hours only
> on the computer, if he were able

******* We bought Laurie a computer at age 11. She was an avid reader
before getting the computer but rarely read a book for the next eight
years. She was immersed in the computer, playing games all night and
learning how a computer works. At age 18 she built two computers and
fully understood them. She helped professors in college with computer
skills. She taught her Computer Basics Professor quite a few tricks.
Now the computer is a tool and she never just sits and surfs for fun.
A game will get her attention when she needs some chilling out time,
but that's it. She reads books constantly now.

I think you already know this, but trust him to get what he needs
from life. Tell ex is he's really concerned that there are many books
to enlighten him.

love, Valerie

MO Milligans

At 07:46 AM 9/23/02 -1000, you wrote:

>Any ideas/thought/suggestions/support would be really appreciated. Let me
>give you any more background, if it would help - I'm really needing some
>input from this great list.
>
>Warmly, Lee
==
To me, it sounds like your newly unschooled son is doing fine. He's able to
save money doing "jobs", he's got a passion (dirt bikes), good on
computers, etc. etc., and he's *only* 12. That's way more than I was doing
at that age, and I think I turned out okay :) Give it another year,
breathe, relax, and so on, and then re-evaluate. Has *he* said, "This
unschooling isn't working...fix it!" ? If not, I would talk *in-depth*
w/him about your worries. Maybe he can also help alleviate some of them.
<hugs>

Todd

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I will choose Free Will" -Rush (& Todd)
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html

kc85022

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Lee Roversi <ncfarms@a...> wrote:
>
> Aloha dear listmates-
>
> I need some help from you veterans (and maybe even some not-so-
veterans!)
>
> My son, Bay, is just turned 12. He a kind, centered, precious boy.
I am
> feeling those old qualms about this schooling path come up for me,
however
> (partially brought on by an ex-husband who is not understanding
unschooling).
>


Dear Lee,

First I'd like to say that I've visited your website and I am truly
envious of where you live. It looks beautiful!! A true paradise. Our
family has never visited Hawaii, not for lack of wanting! But we talk
about going "some day". If and when we do, your Tropical B&B Cottages
sound lovely and we'll consider staying at your farms.

Now about your son Bay. He sounds so much like my boys Ben (11) and
Jon (9). My boys have never been to school and I did school-at-home
with the for 5 years before unschooling for the past year. I was so
happy to find unschooling because our homeschooling efforts were
making us all miserable.

>He dislikes sitting down to 'do' math - but seems to have a good
>grasp of the way it works. >>

This describes both of my sons. They do basically understand math.
They even sit down occasionally with a math curriculum and do a page
or two. But they won't open the book again for a month or more.
Sometimes they surprise me when they do a quick calculation in their
head without even thinking hard - because it's relevant to them. They
are whizzes when it comes to money and buying things they want. They
have it all figured out.

>He reads really well, but doesn't enjoy reading much (in this family
> - that is downright bizarre!) >>

My older son Ben reads well, but also doesn't read much. He likes to
read Calvin and Hobbes and skateboard books from the library, and
lots of cheats that he looks up on the internet (by himself). Lately
he also checked out a bunch of books on How to do Card Tricks at the
library - and learned some good tricks on his own!

My younger son Jon has slowly been learning to read this past year of
unschooling, on his own, just by reading while he's playing his
Gameboy or his computer games.


>He has an electric guitar, but doesn't play
> it much and doesn't seem to want to try another instrument. >>

Ben and Jon both started played instruments for a year and then they
just decided they didn't want to anymore. They were playing so well!
Ben played the trumpet and Jon played the clarinet. They even played
duets together. I was sad to see them quit playing but knew that
making them play when they didn't want to anymore would ruin any fun
they had experienced with their instruments the year before. They do
want to learn to play the sax with my husband, though.

>He doesn't like to write. >>

My boys don't like to write either, except they are already working
on their Christmas lists. <g>

>What he likes to do is move - surf, skateboard. His greatest
> passion now is dirtbiking. >>

Yes, Yes! My boys love roller blading, scootering and are trying to
get better at skateboarding (it's really hard!). They love riding
bikes and I'm sure would love surfing if given a chance (we live in
Arizona). They love playing games, running, jumping, and generally
moving. We belong to a homeschool PE group that meets once a week and
participating in that is the highlight of their week (unlike my
torturous memories of PE in school. LOL)


>He likes the computer - plays Motocross Madness and Age of Empires
>and such with his brother and his friends. Likes his Gameboy. >>

Yes again. They like Monster Truck Madness, Age of Empires,
Rollercoaster Tycoon, Skateboard Tycoon, and Microsoft Flight
Simulator just to name a few. Then there's Tony Hawkes 1, 2 & 3 on
Playstation and Gameboy, and also many different Pokemon games for
their Gameboy. They are also heavily into card collecting, even
getting back into Pokemon cards (thank goodness they listened to me
when I talked them out of selling their collection a year ago, LOL),
and Harry Potter cards.

I've also been trying to watch more movies with them - whatever
they'll watch with me. I just rented Merlin and maybe we'll see that
tonight. And we still need to watch Monsters, Inc. that we picked up
at Blockbuster yesterday.

>He is social to the max - and is the only
> homeschooled boy his age on the entire northshore of Kauai. He likes
> television, but the good opportunities for viewing are rare.
He likes
> storytapes and, even more, the stories his older brother weaves for
him all
> the time. >>

It's getting redundant, I know, but yes again. They love their
friends and take any opportunity to play with them. They play long
and hard. Last week after PE a few of us stayed at the park and the
kids all chose swords (sticks) and were having sword fights for at
least an hour or two. They get along so well with their friends. They
even play happily with the 6 year girl who is homeschooled and lives
across the street (they were doing that this morning).

And yes, they love listening to storytapes, too, but only in the car.
They hate listening at home because it's too confining to have to
stay in the same room for any length of time.

>When nothing is 'happening' around here, he has a lament of "I'm
> bored - what can I do?" My suggestions are often met with disdane.>>

Can you believe that with all this activity going on I still
hear "I'm bored" often enough? Sometimes I'll suggest something they
could do or something I could do with them. Sometimes I just leave
them be and tell them I'm sorry that they feel bored.


> I am feeling like he is not getting a strong educational
experience - will
> be 'weak' in his language arts and math skills. (Go easy on me,
folks -
> these are my deep-seated fears from decades of conditioning and too
many
> recent conversations/attacks with ex-husband!

I hear ya, I still get those feelings, too, sometimes. And I realize
that it only happens when I fall for the comparison trap. When I
start comparing them to others, I feel like they should know how to
spell better by now, or be reading certain books, or know how to do
this math concept, or WHATEVER. And then I read something that
someone else has written either here or at unschooling.com and my
fears are calmed. And we can go on happily living our unschooling
lives.


>I worry that Bay is easily bored and would spend hours only
> on the computer, if he were able (we have to share one computer for
>all 4 of us, so that is not possible). >>

My boys do have unlimited computer access because they each have
their own computer, and sometimes they do spend hours on the
computer, but some days it doesn't even get turned on! The same with
TV. They love their shows like Spongebob and a few other shows on
NICK, some on PBS, but they probably watch about 1-2 hours a day. Not
excessive, IMO.

> Any ideas/thought/suggestions/support would be really appreciated.
Let me
> give you any more background, if it would help - I'm really needing
some
> input from this great list. >>

I don't know if what I've written here today can help you in any way,
but I can tell you that I'm going through many similar things with my
boys. And as far as I can tell, they are happy - and so I'm happy.

Best Wishes,

Karin

[email protected]

>When nothing is 'happening' around here, he has a lament of "I'm
> bored - what can I do?" My suggestions are often met with disdane.>>

http://sandradodd.com/BoredNoMore.html

It probably looks better on the webpage, but here's the text:


BORED NO MORE


by SandraDodd, 1998

Another homeschooling mom once wrote, “It's a valuable lesson to learn to
deal with boredom, just like all other emotions.”

Until I read that, I hadn’t ever thought of boredom as an emotion. I liked
the idea. When a child comes to me seeking advice on how to deal with any
emotional state, I'm flattered and glad for the opportunity.

Traditionally in this culture boredom is seen as a state of sin. “I’m bored”
is met by unthinking parents with, “Then mop the kitchen,” or “You have a
thousand dollars’ worth of toys, you can’t be bored,” or “Boredom’s good
for you.” I believe the VERY common habit of belittling children who use the
word “bored” should be rethought (or “thought,” since it seems many parents
have never considered it carefully but just repeat what their parents said to
them).

If a child came and said she was heartbroken would you tell her she was a
brat and should clean the garage? If a child came and said he was angry
enough to hit would you say, “Then sit down and read a book whether you want
to or not”? Wouldn’t you try to help them? It's nonsensical to me that some
parents shame their children for saying they are at a loss about what to do
next.

The most to be accomplished from punishing or sending bored kids away is that
the kids will learn not to go to that parent for advice and ideas.

Sometimes the real message behind "I'm bored" is "I'm little and feeling
agitated and vaguely unhappy and I don't know what I can do to get over this
uncomfortable feeling. What would you do if you were my age, in this house,
on a day like this?"

I think that deserves a helpful, respectful response.

It is rare that my children say, “I’m bored,” but when they do I walk with
them where they are, or to some other part of the house, thinking quickly
about what I might have that they have never seen, or haven’t seen for a
while. I think of art supplies or games or toys or musical instruments they
haven’t thought of for a long time. I scan my mind and the house for things
which would provide some visual, auditory, olfactory, or mental stimulation,
preferably two or three of those. Tactile stimulation is good too--perhaps
the offer of a shower or bath with new/different toys, or different soap or
something. Sometimes “watering the yard” (playing with the hose) will do.
When a baby cries for no clear reason, parents will often joyfully see
whether the baby means “I’m uncomfortable.” They’ll try a change of cloth
es, physical contact, a change of temperature, more air, less air, hot
food, cold food, a stroll outside, a car ride, SOMETHING different. Older
kids have the same needs, and the expression of that need might come through
as whining, irritability, or a claim of boredom.
Maybe it’s not physical need, but intellectual need. Boredom is a desire for
input which unschooling parents should welcome. It’s a child saying “How can
I add excitement to my life?” This can be a big opportunity to introduce a
new subject, activity, or thought-collection.
Maybe it’s an emotional need, and the parent’s undivided attention for a
little while will solve the problem. A walk, some joking, a hug, inquiries
about progress on the child’s projects or plans or friends might serve many
purposes at once. If after a walk and a talk the child is not quite
refreshed, you still had that time together, which made “I’m bored” a useful
invitation to bonding.
Sometimes “bored” means tired, low on energy, needing a break from conscious
thought and responsibility. Arranging a nap, or putting on a soothing video
(even for older kids--a romance instead of an action flick, or light drama
instead of comedy), leaving a pillow on the couch and herding the rest of the
family in other directions might result in an unplanned but needed nap.
I’m grown. I still get bored occasionally. Thinking about why I’m bored and
forgiving myself for being bored have helped me assist my children in
learning some coping skills they can use in their own lives. I have also used
my occasional boredom as a trigger to seek out the kids. If there’s a lull in
my life now I should fill it with those children who will be gone too soon.
Welcome opportunities to learn about when and why your child asks for your
advice and stimulation. The threshhold of needing the parent will change over
time, and parents can really use knowing where it is and seeing the benefit
in it. One complaint of parents of school kids is that communications are
lacking or are misunderstood. Homeschoolers have the fulltime luxury of the
chance to do better. Unschoolers have the added advantage of “counting”
every interaction as a learning experience. Self awareness, interpersonal
skills, creativity and compassion all come into play when a child and a
parent can build an uplifting memory from “I’m bored.”

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Next unschooling stop? Radical Unschooling
Other Articles by Sandra Dodd
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