Joel Hawthorne

This topic again brings at least two books to mind which I think we'd all be much
better if everybody read .....

"Real Boys" by William Pollack

"I Don't Want to Talk About It" by Terrence Real.

Has anybody read these? The first is about the stifling "code" which boys are
raised under in this culture. This code in many ways is a code of silence. The
learned inability to express feelings (except mad) openly. The derision that
awaits any boy who expresses all of his feelings.

The second is a parsing apart of "covert male depression" which is amazingly
widespread. There are all these families with depressed men wherein the men do not
experience their depression directly but inflict it on their families in a blind
fashion which corrodes relationships. The assignment would appear, for men, to be
experiencing pain in order to be freed from it. The unexpressed grief, among other
feelings, of men is like an affliction on the world. Men often act out in some
form of violence that which they will not experience directly.

I would love to get some feed back from people on these books. I found them very
important.

"A. Yates" wrote:

> From: "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>
>
> Both my boys love their babies. They play with them differently than my
> daughter does, but they do enjoy them.
> I never encouraged them to play with or hid dolls from them. They both want
> carriers and beds for their babies. Hubby slightly disapproves, but not enough
> to say anything. I think his feelings are just throw backs to the way he was
> raised. He's learning :)
> My four yr old in particular is very nurturing. I love seeing him like this.
> He is also the one that is *ell on wheels too! Interesting.
> And, after all, they will most likely grow up to be Daddies some day!
> Ann
>
> Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall wrote:
>
> > From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
> >
> > At 08:38 PM 11/07/1999 -0500, you wrote:
> > >From: "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>
> > >
> > >I need help finding something for my son. He is turning 5 in a couple
> > >weeks, and wants a backpack carrier for his baby.
> > >Natural Baby used to carry one, but don't anymore. Does anyone know
> > >where I might find one?
> > >Thanks,
> > >Ann
> >
> > I know that there is a doll sold in major toy stores which comes with a
> > back pack carrier, but I don't know about buying one seperately. Let me
> > say though, that it is nice to hear someone else who has a son who is
> > attached to his doll(s.) I get those same sideways looks and amused smiles
> > from my ex-playgroup aobut my son's dolls as I do about him kissing the
> > other children (boys too!)
> >
> > An uncomfortable sort of, "Oh! You're teaching him to be sensative! Well
> > I suppose it's allright at this age, but he'll be too old for that sort of
> > thing soon. And you don't want to encourage that sort of un-masculine
> > behavior too long...."
> >
> > It really sickens me, and was the last straw for me with that previous
> > group. I mean, why should boys be treated differently simply by virtue of
> > the fact that they are boys? I believe in treating each child as an
> > individual and parenting them each to their unique personalities and
> > interests, not directing their play and guiding their interests. Luckily I
> > have a very wonderful husband who does not feel that his or his sons'
> > masculinity are threatented in any way by being sensative, showing emotion,
> > or doubt, being caring and affectionate, etc. Our boys play rough and
> > tumble sometimes, but they are just as likely to want a cuddle, to nurture
> > or parent their dolls or stuffed animals, or play cooking as they are to
> > play sports or build with blocks. I hope to raise them to be well rounded
> > and whole men, not particularly macho men.
> >
> > Nanci K. in Idaho
> >
> > > Check it out!
> > http://www.unschooling.com
>
> > Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com

--
best wishes
Joel

For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html

All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/9/99 8:39:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jhawthorne@... writes:

<< I would love to get some feed back from people on these books. I found
them very
important. >>

You recommended them to me before. I just borrowed them from the library but
have not had time yet. I am interested in what you say about depressed men.
Does the book offer suggestions? The men I know would never admit to it if
they were or go for any help.

Laura

Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst

I, too, have Real Boys on my reading list. I've heard the author speak and
thought his principles and ideas were wonderful. However, parenting only
daughters puts me in a bit of an akward position. I probably err on the
side of 'no comment' when it comes to rearing boys because many parents
think if have no idea what it's like to have a son. (I disagree, though I
don't have a son, I did grow up with three brothers and frequently interact
with other people's sons.)
Then of course, I feel strongly about how all children are brought
up....knowing they'll be the 'movers and shakers' on this planet someday.
And on a more personal level....I hope there are healthy, responsible,
loving young men out there when my daughters are older!
Suz
-----Original Message-----


>From: Joel Hawthorne <jhawthorne@...>
>
>This topic again brings at least two books to mind which I think we'd all
be much
>better if everybody read .....
>
>"Real Boys" by William Pollack
>
>"I Don't Want to Talk About It" by Terrence Real.
>
>Has anybody read these? The first is about the stifling "code" which boys
are
>raised under in this culture. This code in many ways is a code of