RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2360
Edward and April Bell
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2360
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Re: bedtimes
From: MO Milligans <Ozarkren@...>
2. Re: Sh*t
From: MO Milligans <Ozarkren@...>
3. Re: the f word
From: "Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
4. Kama Sutra
From: starsuncloud@...
5. Unschoolers and college
From: starsuncloud@...
6. foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the discussion
it was, please
From: "Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
7. Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
From: Leonie Bury <burysleojbab@...>
8. Re: Husband wants to put son on medication
From: "Gerard Westenberg" <westen@...>
9. Re: Boys/Girls (was Re: Another Intro, while we're at it...
From: "Gerard Westenberg" <westen@...>
10. siblings
From: "Annette Naake" <naake1999@...>
11. food choices
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
12. Re: Swear words & kids
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
13. Re: foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the
discussion it was, please
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
14. Re: Naming parental units :)
From: Dnowens@...
15. Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
16. Re: Swear words & kids
From: Dnowens@...
17. Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
From: Dnowens@...
18. Re: Re: Australian groups (late!)
From: Leonie Bury <burysleojbab@...>
19. Re: Digest Number 2359
From: PSoroosh@...
20. Re: Please remove me from your list!
From: Bj4kids@...
21. Re: curfews
From: <ElissaJC@...>
22. Re: Unschoolers and college
From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
23. Re: foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the
discussion it was, please
From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
24. Autism (was different children)
From: "Nora or Devereaux Cannon" <dcannon@...>
25. Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:23:59 -0500
From: MO Milligans <Ozarkren@...>
Subject: Re: Re: bedtimes
At 09:00 PM 9/10/02 +0000, you wrote:
That's why we usually tell them to pick a good video and watch that. <g>
Todd
Our HOME page
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:36:01 -0500
From: MO Milligans <Ozarkren@...>
Subject: Re: Sh*t
At 04:46 PM 9/10/02 -0600, you wrote:
Exactly! Nice to meet you :-)
Todd
Our HOME page
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:15:19 -0700
From: "Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
Subject: Re: the f word
hateful and mean ways bothers me. However, what bothers me more is the
thought that there is a double standard on women or men saying the word
in question. I am very surprised to see all hateful words used so
freely by PEOPLE. I am not, however, bothered by these words being used
in a discussion tone or when a situation deems them appropriate (where a
person is deliberately trying to be mean and hateful).
-Lisa in AZ, who got in trouble as a child for saying "cursive" and
"screw"
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:22:30 EDT
From: starsuncloud@...
Subject: Kama Sutra
In a message dated 9/10/02 10:51:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Whether or not your Karma Sutra game does that, I don't know.
I just assumed it was more of a *kinky* game not for Christians. >>
That's the problem when one assumes. As one of my teachers said "assume
means
making an ass out of u and me" LOL
I suppose it depends on your definition of kinky.
I think it's an incredibly sensual game....very into communication, tender
touching and helps couple be not only creative, but more in touch with each
others feelings.
It's classy in my view, but you have to be very comfortable with your bodies
and talking openly about what you like.
I wasn't trying to say it is a parents place to teach how to pleasure your
partner, I was trying to make the point that that is where books and games
can be important aids in the process.
Ren
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:38:25 EDT
From: starsuncloud@...
Subject: Unschoolers and college
I have this link to a young lady's webpage that was unschooled her entire
life and chose college.
She ended up winning all sorts of awards, being on the deans list and such.
She's done with school for the time being, but you can contact her and read
a
bit about her if you go to her page.
http://www.geocities.com/nikleba
So there is one example. Peter Kowalke recently wrote an article about a
girl
that unschooled her college, I think? I'll look in my recent HEM issues to
see if I can find it for you.
My personal opinion is that unschoolers are going to be a LOT more creative
in regards to getting the knowledge and training they need for whatever they
do in this life.
If college becomes interesting/important to them, they'll do great at it.
I suppose many will become entrepreuners too.
It's going to be interesting to see what route my kids go...
Ren
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:00:31 -0700
From: "Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
Subject: foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the discussion
it was, please
stop buying them!). We have, over the past 6 years, become very
conscious in what foods we put in our mouths. In the store and at home,
I talk to my kids about what different foods do to our bodies.
Different foods make us feel differently. I should stress the *us* in
that sentence, because some people seem to be able to eat anything and
everything to no ill effect (lucky bums!). Anyway, sugar makes us need
to use the restroom more frequently. Lack of protein makes us starving
lunatics. Lack of fiber makes us constipated. I could go on.
My oldest (only 6) knows that it is good to eat when you are hungry, but
to not eat when you aren't hungry. She has understood this her whole
life. I breastfed her on demand as a baby and she feeds herself on
demand now. She understands her bodies cues. If only we all did! (I'm
still relearning my own body cues.)
As for unhealthy ingredients (partially hydrogenated oils, etc.), if you
don't buy it, they can't eat vast quantities of it (while they are
little). We buy lots of snack foods in this household, but my 6 yo
would rather have a piece of fruit. The inevitable goldfish cracker (or
whatever) will show up around other people (Grandparents, Girl Scouts,
etc.) and I don't forbid it and I usually have a few myself, but we have
discussed it and consider those foods to be foods that are only eaten
once in a while (and not every day). I "forced" my infants/toddlers to
have a vegetarian diet, but as soon as my 6 yo started asking about
foods that other people were eating, we allowed her to make that choice
herself (at first she thought that it was a joke that people ate meat,
she just couldn't fathom someone wanting to eat a chicken). She has
chosen vegetarianism on her own and should she change her mind I will
voice my opinions, but it is her life ultimately. (And I won't shame
her, afterall I ate all meats until just before she was born)
It is our responsibility as parents to let our children know how we feel
about various issues, whether that be food, religion, schooling, or
whatever. We cannot force our children to have the same views, but they
should be aware of why we are living the way we are (they have a right
to know what makes us tick!). I don't lecture my kids, but they see me
looking at bags in the grocery store and ask what it is that I am
looking for and I tell them and they help find the alternatives that are
the healthiest for all of us.
I feel that my children are at a huge food advantage over myself. I
truly had no idea what a healthy diet looked like as a child and most
children nowadays still don't. It is a shame since that information is
so readily available. Funny story: kids and adults were talking about
Ding-Dongs and Ho-Hos and Twinkies in front of my daughter. She asked
what they were and we told her, she thought that it might be fun to try
them sometime. So, next time we saw them in the store, we bought some.
She tried a bit of each and about gagged. She thought the Twinkie
tasted like air and the Ho-Ho and Ding-Dong tasted like plastic. She
wonders why anyone would want to eat things with virtually no flavor and
she immediately stopped eating them. DH and I, however, remember how
these were the best food in our childhoods (and how they were rationed
out and made out to be SO GOOD).
-Lisa in AZ, the rambler once I get started
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:07:36 +1000 (EST)
From: Leonie Bury <burysleojbab@...>
Subject: Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
Hi Mary, it's probably not relevant to you in the US but our organisation
here called Australian Vaccination Network has a website www.avn.org.au and
they will sell you a conscientious objector pack which is what we need to do
here. It may have helpful ideas in for you. It's a terrible fear to live
with that by doing what you believe to be right you may lose the ones that
you are working so hard to protect. I send you a "spirit link" to the
universal parents of all places and ages who I call upon whenever I need
parenting help of the most dire kind. They have helped me frequently. All
the best to you in your difficulties.
Leonie (oz)
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:37:23 +0930
From: "Gerard Westenberg" <westen@...>
Subject: Re: Husband wants to put son on medication
<My son has some angerissues so sometimes he has a melt down not very
often.But he had one the other night and my husbandsuggested medication>
Leslie, Your son sounds like one of my sons...He, too, has meltdowns...My dh
loves the idea of unschooling and loves this son but does find some of ds's
behaviour hard to understand...I think its easier for me, because I am with
this son all the time...Anyway, what has really helped my dh *see* this son,
and not his meltdown behaviour, has been books and videos - fiction.
Stories often illustrate ideas and dh and I hav eread and seen things that I
have been able to use as egs for this ds's differences The Ramona kids
books are funny and incredably touching - dh *saw that it was not fair for
Ramona to get into trouble ( nneed medication?) for her differences - and
could apply this to our son...The movies October Sky and Stand and Deliver
held other 'aha' moments...Leonie W.
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:41:27 +0930
From: "Gerard Westenberg" <westen@...>
Subject: Re: Boys/Girls (was Re: Another Intro, while we're at it...
<I can say that I am havinga different experience with my only girl than I
did with my 4 boys.>
Now, that's interesting..Different in what way?..I often wonder how and if
my sons' childhood , with all brothers in a large family, is different to my
childhood in a small single parent two child, one of each sex, family...They
*do have the advantage of unschooling/homeschooling, which I would have
loved...Leonie W.
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 00:49:12 -0500
From: "Annette Naake" <naake1999@...>
Subject: siblings
Mine are also 4.5 yrs apart - now 5 and 9. I agree that this is a tough age
gap because their interests are so different, and reading out loud is
especially difficult because of varying interests and attention spans.
However, mine have become very good friends -- the older guy is a
responsible older brother, the younger one prefers his company to anyone
else's, and they love to play games together (video, cards, imaginary,
chasing, etc.).
It is really hard to feel like you don't have time for what everyone needs.
That includes kids, husband and coworkers. To say nothing of oneself --
another topic altogether. I have had to make what once seemed like major
compromises. When I worked at night, I used to read stories at breakfast
because I wasn't home at bedtime. Today, by the time work and dinner were
over, it was dark, but the guys wanted to go to the park so we went, in the
dark. (It was fun -- we had it to ourselves.) Their dad is home with them
during the day, but of course since I've been gone all day, there's a
thundering race to the front door when they hear my key in the lock and then
a wrestling match to see who can hug me first (the upside of a job outside
the house!).
I don't think you should feel bad about giving one less attention if the
other needs more for the moment. It balances out over time. The reality is
that people have to satisfy their own needs sometimes and often must wait
for what they need. The family is an organic unit and parts must always
accommodate each other.
And the younger child makes up for less parental attention with all that
sibling attention. They learn a lot from their older siblings.
Our younger child has definitely gotten less of the concentrated attention
than his older sibling did. I can't say he's worse off for it. He's learned
to find things to do on his own and he's much more self-sufficient and
easy-going than our older one, who always seemed to need someone to help him
figure out how to keep busy.
Annette
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:11:11 +0000
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
Subject: food choices
Just wanted to add something about the whole food issue. Just in case anyone
is wondering about the choices their children are making.
Tara, my oldest was a great eater as a baby. She ate everything put in front
of her, veggies and whatever it was. When she turned 2, it was like a
different child. Within a week, she cut out all meat to only meatballs.
Within the next month after that, she cut out just about everything else she
ate. She cut out milk, meat of any kind, veggies except for corn, fruit
except for baby peaches. (I mean baby food) She started to survive on french
fries, spaghettio's without the meatballs, pasta with sauce and no meat in
the sauce. Lunches were a chore as she was going to school. From the 2nd
grade up to last year, (she's almost 17)she took peanut butter and jelly to
school every day of her life. When she was young, I thought it was phase.
Whn I realized it was going to be a very long one, I let her go. What was I
going to do, force food into her?? I would feed her before going anywhere
else to eat like someone's house and even would send her with food if she
went visiting. Very gradually she started to add some things on her own. She
started with chicken tenders from BK and went from there.
Now she can eat out at any restuarant and manages quite well. She added some
veggies and fruit along the way. She doesn't "pig out" on snacks, drinks
only water and ice tea, and has even gone as far as to eat steak now. The
only other meat from chicken she'll touch. Doesn't eat any kind of seafood
at all. Point is it all worked for her. Even though she's a school kid,
she's healthier than most I know. Most of the time, the whole house can
catch a cold and she gets nothing. So it certainly hasn't hurt her any and
we've saved countless hours of fighting over nothing.
Mary B
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:16:51 +0000
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
Subject: Re: Swear words & kids
it, as long as it's not in front of the little ones. The little ones hear
some in movies and know it's not something they use. If they hear the word
shit from anyone, which is mostly daddy, they make him pay a dollar. Not
sure where this came from, maybe something on TV. I would feel uncomfortable
hearing my 6 year old use the word shit or anything else without saying it
was a word she heard or asked what it meant. But for the 6 and 7 year olds
to actually talk that way right now, would make me feel uneasy.
Mary B
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:24:09 +0000
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
Subject: Re: foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the
discussion it was, please
From: "Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
She thought the Twinkie
Mary B
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:33:21 EDT
From: Dnowens@...
Subject: Re: Naming parental units :)
In a message dated 9/10/02 9:40:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
Ozarkren@... writes:
~Nancy
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:38:10 +0000
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
Subject: Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
about? Didn't see anything in archives.
Mary B
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:40:43 EDT
From: Dnowens@...
Subject: Re: Swear words & kids
In a message dated 9/10/02 9:41:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
Ozarkren@... writes:
kids, but it was a hard habit to break. I finally decided that I wouldn't
make a big deal of it, now I rarely cuss, but it happens. <g> I think
because
I don't make a fuss over it, my kids see it as no big deal and as such they
don't cuss too much either. Although the other day, Moly dropped a heavy
book
on her foot, tripped over it, fell and hit her elbow on the side of the
coffee table. She said f*** very loudly and began to cry. Darin called out
from the computer room and asked if she was okay, and then said "Did she
just
say what I though she said!" Jack said, "Yeah Dad, Moly said f***!" The
windows were open, and my little brother was just about to walk in the
house.
I heard him on the porch laughing. <g>
~Nancy
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:47:52 EDT
From: Dnowens@...
Subject: Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
In a message dated 9/11/02 1:38:46 AM Central Daylight Time,
mummyone24@... writes:
Sometimes something I post doesn't show up for hours or even a day, but I
get
replies to it. Sometimes, I see replies to others posts but don't see the OP
until much later. And sometimes I don't see a post others are replying too
ever!
~Nancy~ who is used to being out in left field! <g>
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:03:09 +1000 (EST)
From: Leonie Bury <burysleojbab@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Australian groups (late!)
Hi Sandra, sorry it's taken me weeks to reply to your query. We have been
very busy and I got behind with this busy group's post! Of course the more
behind I get the less likely I am to approach the task! Until today. Yes, I
have found two good groups in Australia: one unschool one homeschool. Of
course there are others but this may help.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/australianunschoolers/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/australianhomeschool/
I am finding the posts here about unschooling helpful, sorry to be lurking
at teh moment!
Cheers
Leonie (Oz)
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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:01:23 EDT
From: PSoroosh@...
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2359
In a message dated 9/10/2002 7:41:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
having self-control and point THAT out to him, so you're supporting what he
IS able to do rather than focusing on the times he blows it.
Another thing -- when he DOES blow it, I'd assume he feels bad about doing
so
and I'd comfort him specifically for that. If you punish him in some way,
he's going to feel punished for something he didn't actually have control
over and that is going to just add to the pressure on him when he's next
faced with a similar situation.
Try to articulate reasons why it isn't acceptable behavior- go deep, beyond
just that it isn't nice. What is it about hitting that is so bad? What
feelings is he having when he hits? I'd bet on "frustation" --- notice
frustration happening in stories you're reading -- use the word
"frustration"
as in "Wow, so-and-so was probably really frustrated when his freckle juice
didn't work <G>, what would you do if that happened to you? --- make up
stories together about frustrations that happen to kids, make it only thinly
veiled about him - use his name, even. Let HIM finish the stories
sometimes -
and don't cringe if he finishes them violently on occasion.
--pam
The National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:49:52 EDT
From: Bj4kids@...
Subject: Re: Please remove me from your list!
Please remove me from your list.
Thank-you
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 07:58:55 -0400
From: <ElissaJC@...>
Subject: Re: curfews
Mary, It sounds like there are two issues here that may not even be related!
Curfew
and
Trust
If she has done some things in the past that makes you not feel trustful,
that needs to be addressed seperately. A curfew is just an arbitrary time
that doesn't prevent anything "bad" from happening. I know for a fact that
kids have sex in the afternoon, smoke pot in the basement at 7:30 pm and
drink beer at the river while their parent's think they are at the Library
doing homework. My high school best friend had the earliest curfew of us all
(10:00 on weekends) and she packed it all into those early evening hours!
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:23:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
Subject: Re: Unschoolers and college
Don't you all think this web site and also Pam S. post Digest Number 2357,
regarding her experience with college and unschooling would be great
material for those doubting in-laws, friends and such. I know Pam's post is
going up on my fridge for my ps teaching inlaws to read.
Also thought I'd mention that my dh is coming around to our thinking, he is
now sounding like me(to his dad). They were eating dinner last night and
his father brought up the old socializing thing and dh asked him to think
back to his own school days. I think it really hit a chord with him.
People always jump on the socializing bit when they hear hs. But I think
its because its the only thing they know of to ask. I love pointing out
that all the kids are told that they aren't supposed to socialize in school.
That my kids get to do more socializing! I was just so excited to hear my
dh be excited about our unschooling!!!
OK, now this might be a stupid question but would anyone feel like
informing me on some abbreviations? I've been reading posts for many months
now and still don't know what the d stands for in dh, dd, ds, and don't know
alot of other abbreviations. Thanks to anyone who has the time to explain
these to me.
Kelli
starsuncloud@... wrote:I have this link to a young lady's webpage that
was unschooled her entire
life and chose college.
She ended up winning all sorts of awards, being on the deans list and such.
She's done with school for the time being, but you can contact her and read
a
bit about her if you go to her page.
http://www.geocities.com/nikleba
So there is one example. Peter Kowalke recently wrote an article about a
girl
that unschooled her college, I think? I'll look in my recent HEM issues to
see if I can find it for you.
My personal opinion is that unschoolers are going to be a LOT more creative
in regards to getting the knowledge and training they need for whatever they
do in this life.
If college becomes interesting/important to them, they'll do great at it.
I suppose many will become entrepreuners too.
It's going to be interesting to see what route my kids go...
Ren
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:34:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
Subject: Re: foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the
discussion it was, please
Thank you Lisa for this post, I am constantly struggling with the food
issue in our family. I am just now at 34 figuring out my body signs.
Because my upbringing was like yours, the dessert was for good behavior or
eating everything. And I feel like I've been on a diet my whole like(which
is a whole 'nother post). But I think its because I was never allowed to
eat on queu with my own hunger. Had to fit into my mothers schedule. I am
also going to stop buying certain things, my problem is when dh goes
shopping. He likes a 'good' deal, so when he finds the cheap sugared
cereals on sale, he goes crazy. And my kids and he will eat it for
breakfast and 1 hour later they are starving maniacs, so they eat some
white bread or something else sugary(sp). Duhhhh, I have to try and help
them see how this kind-of eating makes us feel. I would easily be a veg. if
I could only have a good enough arsenal of recipes to fix for my fam.
Kelli, who also tends to ramble on.
"Lisa M. C. Bentley" wrote:> I still don't have rules. But I fear I've
done as much damage in talking
stop buying them!). We have, over the past 6 years, become very
conscious in what foods we put in our mouths. In the store and at home,
I talk to my kids about what different foods do to our bodies.
Different foods make us feel differently. I should stress the *us* in
that sentence, because some people seem to be able to eat anything and
everything to no ill effect (lucky bums!). Anyway, sugar makes us need
to use the restroom more frequently. Lack of protein makes us starving
lunatics. Lack of fiber makes us constipated. I could go on.
My oldest (only 6) knows that it is good to eat when you are hungry, but
to not eat when you aren't hungry. She has understood this her whole
life. I breastfed her on demand as a baby and she feeds herself on
demand now. She understands her bodies cues. If only we all did! (I'm
still relearning my own body cues.)
As for unhealthy ingredients (partially hydrogenated oils, etc.), if you
don't buy it, they can't eat vast quantities of it (while they are
little). We buy lots of snack foods in this household, but my 6 yo
would rather have a piece of fruit. The inevitable goldfish cracker (or
whatever) will show up around other people (Grandparents, Girl Scouts,
etc.) and I don't forbid it and I usually have a few myself, but we have
discussed it and consider those foods to be foods that are only eaten
once in a while (and not every day). I "forced" my infants/toddlers to
have a vegetarian diet, but as soon as my 6 yo started asking about
foods that other people were eating, we allowed her to make that choice
herself (at first she thought that it was a joke that people ate meat,
she just couldn't fathom someone wanting to eat a chicken). She has
chosen vegetarianism on her own and should she change her mind I will
voice my opinions, but it is her life ultimately. (And I won't shame
her, afterall I ate all meats until just before she was born)
It is our responsibility as parents to let our children know how we feel
about various issues, whether that be food, religion, schooling, or
whatever. We cannot force our children to have the same views, but they
should be aware of why we are living the way we are (they have a right
to know what makes us tick!). I don't lecture my kids, but they see me
looking at bags in the grocery store and ask what it is that I am
looking for and I tell them and they help find the alternatives that are
the healthiest for all of us.
I feel that my children are at a huge food advantage over myself. I
truly had no idea what a healthy diet looked like as a child and most
children nowadays still don't. It is a shame since that information is
so readily available. Funny story: kids and adults were talking about
Ding-Dongs and Ho-Hos and Twinkies in front of my daughter. She asked
what they were and we told her, she thought that it might be fun to try
them sometime. So, next time we saw them in the store, we bought some.
She tried a bit of each and about gagged. She thought the Twinkie
tasted like air and the Ho-Ho and Ding-Dong tasted like plastic. She
wonders why anyone would want to eat things with virtually no flavor and
she immediately stopped eating them. DH and I, however, remember how
these were the best food in our childhoods (and how they were rationed
out and made out to be SO GOOD).
-Lisa in AZ, the rambler once I get started
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:49:01 -0500
From: "Nora or Devereaux Cannon" <dcannon@...>
Subject: Autism (was different children)
Autism is a spectrum disorder - meaning that the symptoms have a
wide range of severity. The extent to which a person with autism
is able to function in typical surroundings can vary from being
entirely dependent on supports for all activities of daily living
to the weird computer geek down the street.
http://www.teacch.com/
http://www.autism-society.org/
http://click.topica.com/maaavc3aaTkI0a4T3KNb/.
Non verbal kids with autism definitely need early intervention,
because autism frequently leads to explosive behavior if the kids
can't communicate. Other than the non-verbal kids or the ones
with such deficits that they need tube feeding, diapers, and the
like, separating them from the mainstream of life has never been
demonstrated to benefit the kid (although it does keep folks from
seeing weird kids).
Rather than addressing the issue globally ("I think your kids has
a disability") how about more specific bits and see how it goes:
"I was uncomfortable that Jane wandered away from where we were
and went into another part of the house; you might want to expose
her to more social setting so she can pick up those cues
asily." -or- "It seemed like Jane had a hard time settling down
to play 'with' Mary and Sue, why don't we go to the park and see
if they interact more easily when there are fewer distractions of
an unfamiliar place." Lots of folks seem to have great social
skills hard wired into them, but tips and techniques can help the
rest of us, LOL.
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2360
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Re: bedtimes
From: MO Milligans <Ozarkren@...>
2. Re: Sh*t
From: MO Milligans <Ozarkren@...>
3. Re: the f word
From: "Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
4. Kama Sutra
From: starsuncloud@...
5. Unschoolers and college
From: starsuncloud@...
6. foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the discussion
it was, please
From: "Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
7. Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
From: Leonie Bury <burysleojbab@...>
8. Re: Husband wants to put son on medication
From: "Gerard Westenberg" <westen@...>
9. Re: Boys/Girls (was Re: Another Intro, while we're at it...
From: "Gerard Westenberg" <westen@...>
10. siblings
From: "Annette Naake" <naake1999@...>
11. food choices
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
12. Re: Swear words & kids
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
13. Re: foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the
discussion it was, please
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
14. Re: Naming parental units :)
From: Dnowens@...
15. Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
16. Re: Swear words & kids
From: Dnowens@...
17. Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
From: Dnowens@...
18. Re: Re: Australian groups (late!)
From: Leonie Bury <burysleojbab@...>
19. Re: Digest Number 2359
From: PSoroosh@...
20. Re: Please remove me from your list!
From: Bj4kids@...
21. Re: curfews
From: <ElissaJC@...>
22. Re: Unschoolers and college
From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
23. Re: foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the
discussion it was, please
From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
24. Autism (was different children)
From: "Nora or Devereaux Cannon" <dcannon@...>
25. Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:23:59 -0500
From: MO Milligans <Ozarkren@...>
Subject: Re: Re: bedtimes
At 09:00 PM 9/10/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I just spoke about this subject with my oldest daughter. She was ratherglad
>we didn't disappear for awhile. She said, "I know you two love each other==
>but I certainly don't want to hear it!!!" LOL!!
>
>Mary B
That's why we usually tell them to pick a good video and watch that. <g>
Todd
Our HOME page
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:36:01 -0500
From: MO Milligans <Ozarkren@...>
Subject: Re: Sh*t
At 04:46 PM 9/10/02 -0600, you wrote:
>LOL Actually, that's how I feel about the word f**k. <vbeg> It's just so==
>darn vesratile. It's a noun, a verb, an adjective...you name it. ;-)
>
>Life is good.
>~Mary
Exactly! Nice to meet you :-)
Todd
Our HOME page
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:15:19 -0700
From: "Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
Subject: Re: the f word
> On that note, is anyone else bothered my the freely used "f" wordAll use of derogatory terms (no matter the the actual word) used in
> on these postings? I am very surprised to see it used so freely by
> women today. Or am I the only one it bothers?????>>
hateful and mean ways bothers me. However, what bothers me more is the
thought that there is a double standard on women or men saying the word
in question. I am very surprised to see all hateful words used so
freely by PEOPLE. I am not, however, bothered by these words being used
in a discussion tone or when a situation deems them appropriate (where a
person is deliberately trying to be mean and hateful).
-Lisa in AZ, who got in trouble as a child for saying "cursive" and
"screw"
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:22:30 EDT
From: starsuncloud@...
Subject: Kama Sutra
In a message dated 9/10/02 10:51:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Whether or not your Karma Sutra game does that, I don't know.
I just assumed it was more of a *kinky* game not for Christians. >>
That's the problem when one assumes. As one of my teachers said "assume
means
making an ass out of u and me" LOL
I suppose it depends on your definition of kinky.
I think it's an incredibly sensual game....very into communication, tender
touching and helps couple be not only creative, but more in touch with each
others feelings.
It's classy in my view, but you have to be very comfortable with your bodies
and talking openly about what you like.
I wasn't trying to say it is a parents place to teach how to pleasure your
partner, I was trying to make the point that that is where books and games
can be important aids in the process.
Ren
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:38:25 EDT
From: starsuncloud@...
Subject: Unschoolers and college
I have this link to a young lady's webpage that was unschooled her entire
life and chose college.
She ended up winning all sorts of awards, being on the deans list and such.
She's done with school for the time being, but you can contact her and read
a
bit about her if you go to her page.
http://www.geocities.com/nikleba
So there is one example. Peter Kowalke recently wrote an article about a
girl
that unschooled her college, I think? I'll look in my recent HEM issues to
see if I can find it for you.
My personal opinion is that unschoolers are going to be a LOT more creative
in regards to getting the knowledge and training they need for whatever they
do in this life.
If college becomes interesting/important to them, they'll do great at it.
I suppose many will become entrepreuners too.
It's going to be interesting to see what route my kids go...
Ren
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:00:31 -0700
From: "Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
Subject: foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the discussion
it was, please
> I still don't have rules. But I fear I've done as much damage in talkingSlowly stop buying the products that you don't approve of (or suddenly
> about this being less nutritious than that as my friends did in having all
> those rules. How do others handle these kinds of issues?
stop buying them!). We have, over the past 6 years, become very
conscious in what foods we put in our mouths. In the store and at home,
I talk to my kids about what different foods do to our bodies.
Different foods make us feel differently. I should stress the *us* in
that sentence, because some people seem to be able to eat anything and
everything to no ill effect (lucky bums!). Anyway, sugar makes us need
to use the restroom more frequently. Lack of protein makes us starving
lunatics. Lack of fiber makes us constipated. I could go on.
My oldest (only 6) knows that it is good to eat when you are hungry, but
to not eat when you aren't hungry. She has understood this her whole
life. I breastfed her on demand as a baby and she feeds herself on
demand now. She understands her bodies cues. If only we all did! (I'm
still relearning my own body cues.)
As for unhealthy ingredients (partially hydrogenated oils, etc.), if you
don't buy it, they can't eat vast quantities of it (while they are
little). We buy lots of snack foods in this household, but my 6 yo
would rather have a piece of fruit. The inevitable goldfish cracker (or
whatever) will show up around other people (Grandparents, Girl Scouts,
etc.) and I don't forbid it and I usually have a few myself, but we have
discussed it and consider those foods to be foods that are only eaten
once in a while (and not every day). I "forced" my infants/toddlers to
have a vegetarian diet, but as soon as my 6 yo started asking about
foods that other people were eating, we allowed her to make that choice
herself (at first she thought that it was a joke that people ate meat,
she just couldn't fathom someone wanting to eat a chicken). She has
chosen vegetarianism on her own and should she change her mind I will
voice my opinions, but it is her life ultimately. (And I won't shame
her, afterall I ate all meats until just before she was born)
It is our responsibility as parents to let our children know how we feel
about various issues, whether that be food, religion, schooling, or
whatever. We cannot force our children to have the same views, but they
should be aware of why we are living the way we are (they have a right
to know what makes us tick!). I don't lecture my kids, but they see me
looking at bags in the grocery store and ask what it is that I am
looking for and I tell them and they help find the alternatives that are
the healthiest for all of us.
I feel that my children are at a huge food advantage over myself. I
truly had no idea what a healthy diet looked like as a child and most
children nowadays still don't. It is a shame since that information is
so readily available. Funny story: kids and adults were talking about
Ding-Dongs and Ho-Hos and Twinkies in front of my daughter. She asked
what they were and we told her, she thought that it might be fun to try
them sometime. So, next time we saw them in the store, we bought some.
She tried a bit of each and about gagged. She thought the Twinkie
tasted like air and the Ho-Ho and Ding-Dong tasted like plastic. She
wonders why anyone would want to eat things with virtually no flavor and
she immediately stopped eating them. DH and I, however, remember how
these were the best food in our childhoods (and how they were rationed
out and made out to be SO GOOD).
-Lisa in AZ, the rambler once I get started
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:07:36 +1000 (EST)
From: Leonie Bury <burysleojbab@...>
Subject: Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
Hi Mary, it's probably not relevant to you in the US but our organisation
here called Australian Vaccination Network has a website www.avn.org.au and
they will sell you a conscientious objector pack which is what we need to do
here. It may have helpful ideas in for you. It's a terrible fear to live
with that by doing what you believe to be right you may lose the ones that
you are working so hard to protect. I send you a "spirit link" to the
universal parents of all places and ages who I call upon whenever I need
parenting help of the most dire kind. They have helped me frequently. All
the best to you in your difficulties.
Leonie (oz)
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger for SMS- Now send & receive IMs on your mobile via SMS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:37:23 +0930
From: "Gerard Westenberg" <westen@...>
Subject: Re: Husband wants to put son on medication
<My son has some angerissues so sometimes he has a melt down not very
often.But he had one the other night and my husbandsuggested medication>
Leslie, Your son sounds like one of my sons...He, too, has meltdowns...My dh
loves the idea of unschooling and loves this son but does find some of ds's
behaviour hard to understand...I think its easier for me, because I am with
this son all the time...Anyway, what has really helped my dh *see* this son,
and not his meltdown behaviour, has been books and videos - fiction.
Stories often illustrate ideas and dh and I hav eread and seen things that I
have been able to use as egs for this ds's differences The Ramona kids
books are funny and incredably touching - dh *saw that it was not fair for
Ramona to get into trouble ( nneed medication?) for her differences - and
could apply this to our son...The movies October Sky and Stand and Deliver
held other 'aha' moments...Leonie W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:41:27 +0930
From: "Gerard Westenberg" <westen@...>
Subject: Re: Boys/Girls (was Re: Another Intro, while we're at it...
<I can say that I am havinga different experience with my only girl than I
did with my 4 boys.>
Now, that's interesting..Different in what way?..I often wonder how and if
my sons' childhood , with all brothers in a large family, is different to my
childhood in a small single parent two child, one of each sex, family...They
*do have the advantage of unschooling/homeschooling, which I would have
loved...Leonie W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 00:49:12 -0500
From: "Annette Naake" <naake1999@...>
Subject: siblings
Mine are also 4.5 yrs apart - now 5 and 9. I agree that this is a tough age
gap because their interests are so different, and reading out loud is
especially difficult because of varying interests and attention spans.
However, mine have become very good friends -- the older guy is a
responsible older brother, the younger one prefers his company to anyone
else's, and they love to play games together (video, cards, imaginary,
chasing, etc.).
It is really hard to feel like you don't have time for what everyone needs.
That includes kids, husband and coworkers. To say nothing of oneself --
another topic altogether. I have had to make what once seemed like major
compromises. When I worked at night, I used to read stories at breakfast
because I wasn't home at bedtime. Today, by the time work and dinner were
over, it was dark, but the guys wanted to go to the park so we went, in the
dark. (It was fun -- we had it to ourselves.) Their dad is home with them
during the day, but of course since I've been gone all day, there's a
thundering race to the front door when they hear my key in the lock and then
a wrestling match to see who can hug me first (the upside of a job outside
the house!).
I don't think you should feel bad about giving one less attention if the
other needs more for the moment. It balances out over time. The reality is
that people have to satisfy their own needs sometimes and often must wait
for what they need. The family is an organic unit and parts must always
accommodate each other.
And the younger child makes up for less parental attention with all that
sibling attention. They learn a lot from their older siblings.
Our younger child has definitely gotten less of the concentrated attention
than his older sibling did. I can't say he's worse off for it. He's learned
to find things to do on his own and he's much more self-sufficient and
easy-going than our older one, who always seemed to need someone to help him
figure out how to keep busy.
Annette
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:11:11 +0000
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
Subject: food choices
Just wanted to add something about the whole food issue. Just in case anyone
is wondering about the choices their children are making.
Tara, my oldest was a great eater as a baby. She ate everything put in front
of her, veggies and whatever it was. When she turned 2, it was like a
different child. Within a week, she cut out all meat to only meatballs.
Within the next month after that, she cut out just about everything else she
ate. She cut out milk, meat of any kind, veggies except for corn, fruit
except for baby peaches. (I mean baby food) She started to survive on french
fries, spaghettio's without the meatballs, pasta with sauce and no meat in
the sauce. Lunches were a chore as she was going to school. From the 2nd
grade up to last year, (she's almost 17)she took peanut butter and jelly to
school every day of her life. When she was young, I thought it was phase.
Whn I realized it was going to be a very long one, I let her go. What was I
going to do, force food into her?? I would feed her before going anywhere
else to eat like someone's house and even would send her with food if she
went visiting. Very gradually she started to add some things on her own. She
started with chicken tenders from BK and went from there.
Now she can eat out at any restuarant and manages quite well. She added some
veggies and fruit along the way. She doesn't "pig out" on snacks, drinks
only water and ice tea, and has even gone as far as to eat steak now. The
only other meat from chicken she'll touch. Doesn't eat any kind of seafood
at all. Point is it all worked for her. Even though she's a school kid,
she's healthier than most I know. Most of the time, the whole house can
catch a cold and she gets nothing. So it certainly hasn't hurt her any and
we've saved countless hours of fighting over nothing.
Mary B
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________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:16:51 +0000
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
Subject: Re: Swear words & kids
>From: MO Milligans <Ozarkren@...>And how old are your kids? My 16 year old is like that and we're okay with
>Gosh, that's how I feel about it too :) How do you (the universal you) feel
>about your kids using it (or other such words for that matter)? For us, if
>they us the words *in context* and not as a slur, or insult, then we're
>okay with them saying them. Oddly enough, it *very* rare for them to use
>swear words anyway.
it, as long as it's not in front of the little ones. The little ones hear
some in movies and know it's not something they use. If they hear the word
shit from anyone, which is mostly daddy, they make him pay a dollar. Not
sure where this came from, maybe something on TV. I would feel uncomfortable
hearing my 6 year old use the word shit or anything else without saying it
was a word she heard or asked what it meant. But for the 6 and 7 year olds
to actually talk that way right now, would make me feel uneasy.
Mary B
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:24:09 +0000
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
Subject: Re: foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the
discussion it was, please
From: "Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
She thought the Twinkie
>tasted like air and the Ho-Ho and Ding-Dong tasted like plastic.Oh I could never do without my air and plastic!!! LOL!
Mary B
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________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:33:21 EDT
From: Dnowens@...
Subject: Re: Naming parental units :)
In a message dated 9/10/02 9:40:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
Ozarkren@... writes:
> Our kids sometimes (when talking to each other) call us 'parents'.<g> Asbecause
> in, "Maybe we should go help parents". Doesn't bother me (too much)
> more times than not they call us mommy and daddy :-)That is really cute! :o)
>
> Todd
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:38:10 +0000
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
Subject: Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
>From: Leonie Bury <burysleojbab@...>Am I missing posts again? Could someone clue me in on what this one is
>Hi Mary, it's probably not relevant to you in the US but our organisation
>here called Australian Vaccination Network has a website www.avn.org.au
>and they will sell you a conscientious objector pack which is what we need
>to do here. It may have helpful ideas in for you. It's a terrible fear to
>live with that by doing what you believe to be right you may lose the ones
>that you are working so hard to protect. I send you a "spirit link" to the
>universal parents of all places and ages who I call upon whenever I need
>parenting help of the most dire kind. They have helped me frequently. All
>the best to you in your difficulties.
>
>Leonie (oz)
about? Didn't see anything in archives.
Mary B
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:40:43 EDT
From: Dnowens@...
Subject: Re: Swear words & kids
In a message dated 9/10/02 9:41:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
Ozarkren@... writes:
> >For me, it's just another word.feel
> ==
> Gosh, that's how I feel about it too :) How do you (the universal you)
> about your kids using it (or other such words for that matter)? For us, ifI cuss. I used to make a concentrated effort to not do that in front of the
> they us the words *in context* and not as a slur, or insult, then we're
> okay with them saying them. Oddly enough, it *very* rare for them to use
> swear words anyway.
>
> Todd
kids, but it was a hard habit to break. I finally decided that I wouldn't
make a big deal of it, now I rarely cuss, but it happens. <g> I think
because
I don't make a fuss over it, my kids see it as no big deal and as such they
don't cuss too much either. Although the other day, Moly dropped a heavy
book
on her foot, tripped over it, fell and hit her elbow on the side of the
coffee table. She said f*** very loudly and began to cry. Darin called out
from the computer room and asked if she was okay, and then said "Did she
just
say what I though she said!" Jack said, "Yeah Dad, Moly said f***!" The
windows were open, and my little brother was just about to walk in the
house.
I heard him on the porch laughing. <g>
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:47:52 EDT
From: Dnowens@...
Subject: Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
In a message dated 9/11/02 1:38:46 AM Central Daylight Time,
mummyone24@... writes:
> Am I missing posts again? Could someone clue me in on what this one isYou and me both Mary! (come on over and sit by me on the confusion couch!)
> about? Didn't see anything in archives.
>
> Mary B
Sometimes something I post doesn't show up for hours or even a day, but I
get
replies to it. Sometimes, I see replies to others posts but don't see the OP
until much later. And sometimes I don't see a post others are replying too
ever!
~Nancy~ who is used to being out in left field! <g>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:03:09 +1000 (EST)
From: Leonie Bury <burysleojbab@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Australian groups (late!)
Hi Sandra, sorry it's taken me weeks to reply to your query. We have been
very busy and I got behind with this busy group's post! Of course the more
behind I get the less likely I am to approach the task! Until today. Yes, I
have found two good groups in Australia: one unschool one homeschool. Of
course there are others but this may help.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/australianunschoolers/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/australianhomeschool/
I am finding the posts here about unschooling helpful, sorry to be lurking
at teh moment!
Cheers
Leonie (Oz)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:01:23 EDT
From: PSoroosh@...
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2359
In a message dated 9/10/2002 7:41:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
> Huh......I don't really know. Can't really say Pam. I do know there areMary - that's exactly what I was thinking. Maybe you can try to catch him
> times when he does come to me and say "she's bothering me" and times when
> he
> does just "quit" and go in his room. So I guess I need to start keeping
> track of how often each happens. Like I did think of, it seems to be at
> least a week since a hitting incident happened. I guess I was looking for
> an
> answer thinking what we did wasn't working and maybe it is afterall.
> Thanks.
having self-control and point THAT out to him, so you're supporting what he
IS able to do rather than focusing on the times he blows it.
Another thing -- when he DOES blow it, I'd assume he feels bad about doing
so
and I'd comfort him specifically for that. If you punish him in some way,
he's going to feel punished for something he didn't actually have control
over and that is going to just add to the pressure on him when he's next
faced with a similar situation.
Try to articulate reasons why it isn't acceptable behavior- go deep, beyond
just that it isn't nice. What is it about hitting that is so bad? What
feelings is he having when he hits? I'd bet on "frustation" --- notice
frustration happening in stories you're reading -- use the word
"frustration"
as in "Wow, so-and-so was probably really frustrated when his freckle juice
didn't work <G>, what would you do if that happened to you? --- make up
stories together about frustrations that happen to kids, make it only thinly
veiled about him - use his name, even. Let HIM finish the stories
sometimes -
and don't cringe if he finishes them violently on occasion.
--pam
The National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:49:52 EDT
From: Bj4kids@...
Subject: Re: Please remove me from your list!
Please remove me from your list.
Thank-you
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 07:58:55 -0400
From: <ElissaJC@...>
Subject: Re: curfews
Mary, It sounds like there are two issues here that may not even be related!
Curfew
and
Trust
If she has done some things in the past that makes you not feel trustful,
that needs to be addressed seperately. A curfew is just an arbitrary time
that doesn't prevent anything "bad" from happening. I know for a fact that
kids have sex in the afternoon, smoke pot in the basement at 7:30 pm and
drink beer at the river while their parent's think they are at the Library
doing homework. My high school best friend had the earliest curfew of us all
(10:00 on weekends) and she packed it all into those early evening hours!
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:23:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
Subject: Re: Unschoolers and college
Don't you all think this web site and also Pam S. post Digest Number 2357,
regarding her experience with college and unschooling would be great
material for those doubting in-laws, friends and such. I know Pam's post is
going up on my fridge for my ps teaching inlaws to read.
Also thought I'd mention that my dh is coming around to our thinking, he is
now sounding like me(to his dad). They were eating dinner last night and
his father brought up the old socializing thing and dh asked him to think
back to his own school days. I think it really hit a chord with him.
People always jump on the socializing bit when they hear hs. But I think
its because its the only thing they know of to ask. I love pointing out
that all the kids are told that they aren't supposed to socialize in school.
That my kids get to do more socializing! I was just so excited to hear my
dh be excited about our unschooling!!!
OK, now this might be a stupid question but would anyone feel like
informing me on some abbreviations? I've been reading posts for many months
now and still don't know what the d stands for in dh, dd, ds, and don't know
alot of other abbreviations. Thanks to anyone who has the time to explain
these to me.
Kelli
starsuncloud@... wrote:I have this link to a young lady's webpage that
was unschooled her entire
life and chose college.
She ended up winning all sorts of awards, being on the deans list and such.
She's done with school for the time being, but you can contact her and read
a
bit about her if you go to her page.
http://www.geocities.com/nikleba
So there is one example. Peter Kowalke recently wrote an article about a
girl
that unschooled her college, I think? I'll look in my recent HEM issues to
see if I can find it for you.
My personal opinion is that unschoolers are going to be a LOT more creative
in regards to getting the knowledge and training they need for whatever they
do in this life.
If college becomes interesting/important to them, they'll do great at it.
I suppose many will become entrepreuners too.
It's going to be interesting to see what route my kids go...
Ren
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:34:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
Subject: Re: foods, long Re: Re: ask again, or remind us where in the
discussion it was, please
Thank you Lisa for this post, I am constantly struggling with the food
issue in our family. I am just now at 34 figuring out my body signs.
Because my upbringing was like yours, the dessert was for good behavior or
eating everything. And I feel like I've been on a diet my whole like(which
is a whole 'nother post). But I think its because I was never allowed to
eat on queu with my own hunger. Had to fit into my mothers schedule. I am
also going to stop buying certain things, my problem is when dh goes
shopping. He likes a 'good' deal, so when he finds the cheap sugared
cereals on sale, he goes crazy. And my kids and he will eat it for
breakfast and 1 hour later they are starving maniacs, so they eat some
white bread or something else sugary(sp). Duhhhh, I have to try and help
them see how this kind-of eating makes us feel. I would easily be a veg. if
I could only have a good enough arsenal of recipes to fix for my fam.
Kelli, who also tends to ramble on.
"Lisa M. C. Bentley" wrote:> I still don't have rules. But I fear I've
done as much damage in talking
> about this being less nutritious than that as my friends did in having allSlowly stop buying the products that you don't approve of (or suddenly
> those rules. How do others handle these kinds of issues?
stop buying them!). We have, over the past 6 years, become very
conscious in what foods we put in our mouths. In the store and at home,
I talk to my kids about what different foods do to our bodies.
Different foods make us feel differently. I should stress the *us* in
that sentence, because some people seem to be able to eat anything and
everything to no ill effect (lucky bums!). Anyway, sugar makes us need
to use the restroom more frequently. Lack of protein makes us starving
lunatics. Lack of fiber makes us constipated. I could go on.
My oldest (only 6) knows that it is good to eat when you are hungry, but
to not eat when you aren't hungry. She has understood this her whole
life. I breastfed her on demand as a baby and she feeds herself on
demand now. She understands her bodies cues. If only we all did! (I'm
still relearning my own body cues.)
As for unhealthy ingredients (partially hydrogenated oils, etc.), if you
don't buy it, they can't eat vast quantities of it (while they are
little). We buy lots of snack foods in this household, but my 6 yo
would rather have a piece of fruit. The inevitable goldfish cracker (or
whatever) will show up around other people (Grandparents, Girl Scouts,
etc.) and I don't forbid it and I usually have a few myself, but we have
discussed it and consider those foods to be foods that are only eaten
once in a while (and not every day). I "forced" my infants/toddlers to
have a vegetarian diet, but as soon as my 6 yo started asking about
foods that other people were eating, we allowed her to make that choice
herself (at first she thought that it was a joke that people ate meat,
she just couldn't fathom someone wanting to eat a chicken). She has
chosen vegetarianism on her own and should she change her mind I will
voice my opinions, but it is her life ultimately. (And I won't shame
her, afterall I ate all meats until just before she was born)
It is our responsibility as parents to let our children know how we feel
about various issues, whether that be food, religion, schooling, or
whatever. We cannot force our children to have the same views, but they
should be aware of why we are living the way we are (they have a right
to know what makes us tick!). I don't lecture my kids, but they see me
looking at bags in the grocery store and ask what it is that I am
looking for and I tell them and they help find the alternatives that are
the healthiest for all of us.
I feel that my children are at a huge food advantage over myself. I
truly had no idea what a healthy diet looked like as a child and most
children nowadays still don't. It is a shame since that information is
so readily available. Funny story: kids and adults were talking about
Ding-Dongs and Ho-Hos and Twinkies in front of my daughter. She asked
what they were and we told her, she thought that it might be fun to try
them sometime. So, next time we saw them in the store, we bought some.
She tried a bit of each and about gagged. She thought the Twinkie
tasted like air and the Ho-Ho and Ding-Dong tasted like plastic. She
wonders why anyone would want to eat things with virtually no flavor and
she immediately stopped eating them. DH and I, however, remember how
these were the best food in our childhoods (and how they were rationed
out and made out to be SO GOOD).
-Lisa in AZ, the rambler once I get started
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:49:01 -0500
From: "Nora or Devereaux Cannon" <dcannon@...>
Subject: Autism (was different children)
Autism is a spectrum disorder - meaning that the symptoms have a
wide range of severity. The extent to which a person with autism
is able to function in typical surroundings can vary from being
entirely dependent on supports for all activities of daily living
to the weird computer geek down the street.
http://www.teacch.com/
http://www.autism-society.org/
http://click.topica.com/maaavc3aaTkI0a4T3KNb/.
Non verbal kids with autism definitely need early intervention,
because autism frequently leads to explosive behavior if the kids
can't communicate. Other than the non-verbal kids or the ones
with such deficits that they need tube feeding, diapers, and the
like, separating them from the mainstream of life has never been
demonstrated to benefit the kid (although it does keep folks from
seeing weird kids).
Rather than addressing the issue globally ("I think your kids has
a disability") how about more specific bits and see how it goes:
"I was uncomfortable that Jane wandered away from where we were
and went into another part of the house; you might want to expose
her to more social setting so she can pick up those cues
asily." -or- "It seemed like Jane had a hard time settling down
to play 'with' Mary and Sue, why don't we go to the park and see
if they interact more easily when there are fewer distractions of
an unfamiliar place." Lots of folks seem to have great social
skills hard wired into them, but tips and techniques can help the
rest of us, LOL.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:48 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] different children
| >From: SandraDodd@...
|
| >>The autistic child wouldn't have been in the normal range for
his age in
| the "your seven year old" books, but because my kids were aware
that there
| are some things younger kids are still not good at and they
were able to
| treat him as being at an earlier developmental stage, it worked
out.>>
|
|
|
| Now that this has been brought up, I have another question.
What a
| shocker!!!
| My kids also have no problem with children that are different
in so far any
| kind of way they have encounterd. Autistic, special needs or
CP. I had a
| fellow homeschooler come over to our house for a day of play
and swimming.
| She has a 6year old daughter that my daughter was thrilled to
meet. Most her
| age are boys in our group. I hadn't remembered this child but
for once at a
| park when she was 4. At that time I did notice she was happier
to be alone
| but when the mother said she was immature for age, I never
thought twice
| about it. She just seemed like she wasn't into playing with
other kids at
| that time.
|
| Well as soon as the mother and daughter walked into my house, I
knew there
| was something different. At the end of our play day, the mother
and daughter
| had fun, I was uncomfortable and my kids really didn't seem
different aside
| from the fact that they had no one to play with when they
thought they were
| going to. The child to me, as far as the info I have which
isn't much, seems
| slightly autistic. She doesn't interact at all with anyone. She
talks but
| not to anyone, not the kids or me or even her mom. She never
makes eye
| contact and just goes very quickly from one thing to another
like no one
| else is around. It was a bit uncomfortable for me because her
mother doesn't
| really watch her as if there is a problem. (my mother has a
connecting MIL
| quarters to our house and this little girl just walked right in
never saying
| a word and went into my mother's bedroom for awhile and then
just left) I
| found this out later. I've never had any child, whether
schoooled or not go
| through my house like that. So I had to watch her and make
comments when she
| did what we don't do here in the house. Like push people and
grab things
| from others and so on.
|
| My kids tried to play with her but it just wasn't possible.
They had nothing
| to say other than she seemed to not like them. The mother gives
no
| indication at all that she sees a problem. She just says being
an only
| child, that the girl is immature. Now the only autistic
children I know go
| to special classes daily. I'm not sure if that's the best thing
or not but I
| can't help but wonder that maybe this child could benefit from
some other
| type of help the mother isn't giving. The mother unschools in
as far as I
| know of, only not having work to do. I know nothing else of how
she is with
| the child.
|
| Do I say something to this mother? She frequently calls me for
advice and
| marvles at how I do it with 4 kids and thanks me greatly for
suggestions I
| have made that help her. Now I see things differently and
realize why she
| seems to need help with things. Not usre if it's for me to say
something or
| what I would exactly say.
|
| Mary B
|
|
|
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please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll
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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:33:02 -0000
From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
Subject: Re: About Immunizing, or NOT, and school requirements
If you aren't sure what message someone is replying to, go to the
messages on yahoo, and click threads. It will sort everything by
threads so you can see where everything started. What I do is click
on the message that I want to see, then go back to the message index
and then click thread. Then I don't have to go all over the place
looking for the thread I want, it's right there.
Sheila
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@h...> wrote:
> >From: Leonie Bury <burysleojbab@y...>
>
> >Hi Mary, it's probably not relevant to you in the US but our
organisation
> >here called Australian Vaccination Network has a website
www.avn.org.au
> >and they will sell you a conscientious objector pack which is what
we need
> >to do here. It may have helpful ideas in for you. It's a terrible
fear to
> >live with that by doing what you believe to be right you may lose
the ones
> >that you are working so hard to protect. I send you a "spirit
link" to the
> >universal parents of all places and ages who I call upon whenever
I need
> >parenting help of the most dire kind. They have helped me
frequently. All
> >the best to you in your difficulties.
> >
> >Leonie (oz)
>
>
>
> Am I missing posts again? Could someone clue me in on what this one
is
> about? Didn't see anything in archives.
>
> Mary B
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
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~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
email and you will see a link to unsub. Click the link, and email will open
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~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
MO Milligans
At 12:13 PM 9/11/02 -0400, you wrote:
Send a blank email to [email protected]
Then reply to the return-message, and you're all set :)
Take care :)
Todd
Our HOME page
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
>Please remove me from your list..................==
Send a blank email to [email protected]
Then reply to the return-message, and you're all set :)
Take care :)
Todd
Our HOME page
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html