Lisa M. C. Bentley

> I still don't have rules. But I fear I've done as much damage in talking
> about this being less nutritious than that as my friends did in having all
> those rules. How do others handle these kinds of issues?

Slowly stop buying the products that you don't approve of (or suddenly
stop buying them!). We have, over the past 6 years, become very
conscious in what foods we put in our mouths. In the store and at home,
I talk to my kids about what different foods do to our bodies.
Different foods make us feel differently. I should stress the *us* in
that sentence, because some people seem to be able to eat anything and
everything to no ill effect (lucky bums!). Anyway, sugar makes us need
to use the restroom more frequently. Lack of protein makes us starving
lunatics. Lack of fiber makes us constipated. I could go on.

My oldest (only 6) knows that it is good to eat when you are hungry, but
to not eat when you aren't hungry. She has understood this her whole
life. I breastfed her on demand as a baby and she feeds herself on
demand now. She understands her bodies cues. If only we all did! (I'm
still relearning my own body cues.)

As for unhealthy ingredients (partially hydrogenated oils, etc.), if you
don't buy it, they can't eat vast quantities of it (while they are
little). We buy lots of snack foods in this household, but my 6 yo
would rather have a piece of fruit. The inevitable goldfish cracker (or
whatever) will show up around other people (Grandparents, Girl Scouts,
etc.) and I don't forbid it and I usually have a few myself, but we have
discussed it and consider those foods to be foods that are only eaten
once in a while (and not every day). I "forced" my infants/toddlers to
have a vegetarian diet, but as soon as my 6 yo started asking about
foods that other people were eating, we allowed her to make that choice
herself (at first she thought that it was a joke that people ate meat,
she just couldn't fathom someone wanting to eat a chicken). She has
chosen vegetarianism on her own and should she change her mind I will
voice my opinions, but it is her life ultimately. (And I won't shame
her, afterall I ate all meats until just before she was born)

It is our responsibility as parents to let our children know how we feel
about various issues, whether that be food, religion, schooling, or
whatever. We cannot force our children to have the same views, but they
should be aware of why we are living the way we are (they have a right
to know what makes us tick!). I don't lecture my kids, but they see me
looking at bags in the grocery store and ask what it is that I am
looking for and I tell them and they help find the alternatives that are
the healthiest for all of us.

I feel that my children are at a huge food advantage over myself. I
truly had no idea what a healthy diet looked like as a child and most
children nowadays still don't. It is a shame since that information is
so readily available. Funny story: kids and adults were talking about
Ding-Dongs and Ho-Hos and Twinkies in front of my daughter. She asked
what they were and we told her, she thought that it might be fun to try
them sometime. So, next time we saw them in the store, we bought some.
She tried a bit of each and about gagged. She thought the Twinkie
tasted like air and the Ho-Ho and Ding-Dong tasted like plastic. She
wonders why anyone would want to eat things with virtually no flavor and
she immediately stopped eating them. DH and I, however, remember how
these were the best food in our childhoods (and how they were rationed
out and made out to be SO GOOD).

-Lisa in AZ, the rambler once I get started

Mary Bianco

From: "Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>

She thought the Twinkie
>tasted like air and the Ho-Ho and Ding-Dong tasted like plastic.


Oh I could never do without my air and plastic!!! LOL!

Mary B

_________________________________________________________________
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Kelli Traaseth

Thank you Lisa for this post, I am constantly struggling with the food issue in our family. I am just now at 34 figuring out my body signs. Because my upbringing was like yours, the dessert was for good behavior or eating everything. And I feel like I've been on a diet my whole like(which is a whole 'nother post). But I think its because I was never allowed to eat on queu with my own hunger. Had to fit into my mothers schedule. I am also going to stop buying certain things, my problem is when dh goes shopping. He likes a 'good' deal, so when he finds the cheap sugared cereals on sale, he goes crazy. And my kids and he will eat it for breakfast and 1 hour later they are starving maniacs, so they eat some white bread or something else sugary(sp). Duhhhh, I have to try and help them see how this kind-of eating makes us feel. I would easily be a veg. if I could only have a good enough arsenal of recipes to fix for my fam.

Kelli, who also tends to ramble on.
"Lisa M. C. Bentley" wrote:> I still don't have rules. But I fear I've done as much damage in talking
> about this being less nutritious than that as my friends did in having all
> those rules. How do others handle these kinds of issues?

Slowly stop buying the products that you don't approve of (or suddenly
stop buying them!). We have, over the past 6 years, become very
conscious in what foods we put in our mouths. In the store and at home,
I talk to my kids about what different foods do to our bodies.
Different foods make us feel differently. I should stress the *us* in
that sentence, because some people seem to be able to eat anything and
everything to no ill effect (lucky bums!). Anyway, sugar makes us need
to use the restroom more frequently. Lack of protein makes us starving
lunatics. Lack of fiber makes us constipated. I could go on.

My oldest (only 6) knows that it is good to eat when you are hungry, but
to not eat when you aren't hungry. She has understood this her whole
life. I breastfed her on demand as a baby and she feeds herself on
demand now. She understands her bodies cues. If only we all did! (I'm
still relearning my own body cues.)

As for unhealthy ingredients (partially hydrogenated oils, etc.), if you
don't buy it, they can't eat vast quantities of it (while they are
little). We buy lots of snack foods in this household, but my 6 yo
would rather have a piece of fruit. The inevitable goldfish cracker (or
whatever) will show up around other people (Grandparents, Girl Scouts,
etc.) and I don't forbid it and I usually have a few myself, but we have
discussed it and consider those foods to be foods that are only eaten
once in a while (and not every day). I "forced" my infants/toddlers to
have a vegetarian diet, but as soon as my 6 yo started asking about
foods that other people were eating, we allowed her to make that choice
herself (at first she thought that it was a joke that people ate meat,
she just couldn't fathom someone wanting to eat a chicken). She has
chosen vegetarianism on her own and should she change her mind I will
voice my opinions, but it is her life ultimately. (And I won't shame
her, afterall I ate all meats until just before she was born)

It is our responsibility as parents to let our children know how we feel
about various issues, whether that be food, religion, schooling, or
whatever. We cannot force our children to have the same views, but they
should be aware of why we are living the way we are (they have a right
to know what makes us tick!). I don't lecture my kids, but they see me
looking at bags in the grocery store and ask what it is that I am
looking for and I tell them and they help find the alternatives that are
the healthiest for all of us.

I feel that my children are at a huge food advantage over myself. I
truly had no idea what a healthy diet looked like as a child and most
children nowadays still don't. It is a shame since that information is
so readily available. Funny story: kids and adults were talking about
Ding-Dongs and Ho-Hos and Twinkies in front of my daughter. She asked
what they were and we told her, she thought that it might be fun to try
them sometime. So, next time we saw them in the store, we bought some.
She tried a bit of each and about gagged. She thought the Twinkie
tasted like air and the Ho-Ho and Ding-Dong tasted like plastic. She
wonders why anyone would want to eat things with virtually no flavor and
she immediately stopped eating them. DH and I, however, remember how
these were the best food in our childhoods (and how they were rationed
out and made out to be SO GOOD).

-Lisa in AZ, the rambler once I get started

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

But when you don't buy certain things that you know your kids would
like to eat, isn't that a kind of subtle coercion? Kind of not
subscribing to cable tv and only buying education videos, because you
don't think that tv is good for kids?
Sheila


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@y...>
wrote:
>
> Thank you Lisa for this post, I am constantly struggling with the
food issue in our family. I am just now at 34 figuring out my body
signs. Because my upbringing was like yours, the dessert was for
good behavior or eating everything. And I feel like I've been on a
diet my whole like(which is a whole 'nother post). But I think its
because I was never allowed to eat on queu with my own hunger. Had
to fit into my mothers schedule. I am also going to stop buying
certain things, my problem is when dh goes shopping. He likes
a 'good' deal, so when he finds the cheap sugared cereals on sale, he
goes crazy. And my kids and he will eat it for breakfast and 1 hour
later they are starving maniacs, so they eat some white bread or
something else sugary(sp). Duhhhh, I have to try and help them see
how this kind-of eating makes us feel. I would easily be a veg. if I
could only have a good enough arsenal of recipes to fix for my fam.
>
> Kelli, who also tends to ramble on.
> "Lisa M. C. Bentley" wrote:> I still don't have rules. But I fear
I've done as much damage in talking
> > about this being less nutritious than that as my friends did in
having all
> > those rules. How do others handle these kinds of issues?
>
> Slowly stop buying the products that you don't approve of (or
suddenly
> stop buying them!). We have, over the past 6 years, become very
> conscious in what foods we put in our mouths. In the store and at
home,
> I talk to my kids about what different foods do to our bodies.
> Different foods make us feel differently. I should stress the *us*
in
> that sentence, because some people seem to be able to eat anything
and
> everything to no ill effect (lucky bums!). Anyway, sugar makes us
need
> to use the restroom more frequently. Lack of protein makes us
starving
> lunatics. Lack of fiber makes us constipated. I could go on.
>
> My oldest (only 6) knows that it is good to eat when you are
hungry, but
> to not eat when you aren't hungry. She has understood this her
whole
> life. I breastfed her on demand as a baby and she feeds herself on
> demand now. She understands her bodies cues. If only we all did!
(I'm
> still relearning my own body cues.)
>
> As for unhealthy ingredients (partially hydrogenated oils, etc.),
if you
> don't buy it, they can't eat vast quantities of it (while they are
> little). We buy lots of snack foods in this household, but my 6 yo
> would rather have a piece of fruit. The inevitable goldfish
cracker (or
> whatever) will show up around other people (Grandparents, Girl
Scouts,
> etc.) and I don't forbid it and I usually have a few myself, but we
have
> discussed it and consider those foods to be foods that are only
eaten
> once in a while (and not every day). I "forced" my
infants/toddlers to
> have a vegetarian diet, but as soon as my 6 yo started asking about
> foods that other people were eating, we allowed her to make that
choice
> herself (at first she thought that it was a joke that people ate
meat,
> she just couldn't fathom someone wanting to eat a chicken). She has
> chosen vegetarianism on her own and should she change her mind I
will
> voice my opinions, but it is her life ultimately. (And I won't
shame
> her, afterall I ate all meats until just before she was born)
>
> It is our responsibility as parents to let our children know how we
feel
> about various issues, whether that be food, religion, schooling, or
> whatever. We cannot force our children to have the same views, but
they
> should be aware of why we are living the way we are (they have a
right
> to know what makes us tick!). I don't lecture my kids, but they
see me
> looking at bags in the grocery store and ask what it is that I am
> looking for and I tell them and they help find the alternatives
that are
> the healthiest for all of us.
>
> I feel that my children are at a huge food advantage over myself. I
> truly had no idea what a healthy diet looked like as a child and
most
> children nowadays still don't. It is a shame since that
information is
> so readily available. Funny story: kids and adults were talking
about
> Ding-Dongs and Ho-Hos and Twinkies in front of my daughter. She
asked
> what they were and we told her, she thought that it might be fun to
try
> them sometime. So, next time we saw them in the store, we bought
some.
> She tried a bit of each and about gagged. She thought the Twinkie
> tasted like air and the Ho-Ho and Ding-Dong tasted like plastic.
She
> wonders why anyone would want to eat things with virtually no
flavor and
> she immediately stopped eating them. DH and I, however, remember
how
> these were the best food in our childhoods (and how they were
rationed
> out and made out to be SO GOOD).
>
> -Lisa in AZ, the rambler once I get started
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line!
~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@e...), or the list
owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@h...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
address an email to:
> Unschooling-dotcom-unsubscribe@y...
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! - We Remember
> 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/11/02 10:20:18 AM, sheran@... writes:

<< But when you don't buy certain things that you know your kids would
like to eat, isn't that a kind of subtle coercion? Kind of not
subscribing to cable tv and only buying education videos, because you
don't think that tv is good for kids? >>

Sorry if I've missed some more buildup or some good responses.

We don't have cable because it's expensive and we can get reception without
it. We think TV is fine and dandy for kids.

We don't buy all the food in the whole store, but kids can request things.
If I'm willing to get them whatever they ask for, then what I choose to buy
in addition to that is bought because I know they'll eat it, it's good for
them, it's not expensive that week, whatever.

Giving kids freedom doesn't require hauling every item on earth into the
house.

I couldn't just buy "educational videos," because some of them are NOT
educational, they're boring and irritating and turn kids off to the subject
matter. Any book or video that's called anything vaguely resembling "History
can be Interesting!" or "Math doesn't have to Suck!" does NOT make it into my
house, as they are predicated on the idea that history is NOT interesting and
math DOES suck.

My kids like musicals and we have lots of them. If they liked musicals and I
hated them (as my parents did) and I refused to have any, that would be tacky
on my part, and selfish, and non-productive. But I've known them their
whole lives and I know what they like.

And to tie into just about every other thread for a week, one of the musicals
we have in our collection is "South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut."

I've never coerced them into watching it.

We don't force them to eat the food we have. The way they signal us not to
buy it is not to eat it. The way they teach us what to buy is by what they
eat. Our regular "staple" quick kid-foods are individual pizzas,
chimichangas, hot pockets, hot dogs, and sandwich stuff. Dr Pepper goes.
Organic various-flavored stuff goes when there are big groups of kids, but
not for individual kids, so I guess they drink that stuff to show off for the
couple of health-food kids in the crowd.

Somewhere between saying "NO, not in MY house" and driving kids out to look
for crack and prostitutes is a happy medium.

If each desire or item or experiment is dealt with on its own merits, with
advice and discussion between the children and parents, I don't see it as
coercion.

Sandra

Michael Millard

<staples are pizzas,chimichangas,hot pockets,hot dogs,etc.>
WOW! watch out for heart attacks! :) Mary in Va.

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/14/02 1:51:54 PM, nomads3@... writes:

<< <staples are pizzas,chimichangas,hot pockets,hot dogs,etc.> >>

Yeah. Marty was standing there reciting that stuff that was kinda making me
feel full just hearing it. They work it off in NO time.

Lisa M. C. Bentley

> But when you don't buy certain things that you know your kids would
> like to eat, isn't that a kind of subtle coercion? Kind of not
> subscribing to cable tv and only buying education videos, because you
> don't think that tv is good for kids?
> Sheila


I see your point, but no. I really don't think my kids would like
coffee, or whole cow's milk, or white bread, etc. (just examples that I
can think of off the top of my head). Why would they like them? I
don't. I buy my kids every kind of food that I think that they would
like (sometimes they do and sometimes they don't and they NEVER have to
eat it) and we are always exploring new foods (some healthy, some not so
much, but none dangerous) to try to find new ones that we'll like. I
buy a bunch of things that *only* the kids like, too. However, they do
happen to be relatively heathy. Would I buy cigarettes for my kids just
because they *might* like them? Uh, no. And, chances are, without
social forces to help them like bad things, they probably never will
("bad", of course, being very relative).

BTW, we don't subscribe to cable tv. I don't think that too much
television is good for anyone, and being that my children are only 6 and
2, it is my job as a parent to help them determine the quantity and
quality of the television and the food that the like. There are many
sides to this, including finances. I will, of course, admit to not
knowing every single television show or food item out there and I am
always open for suggestions to new ones (and my children are, too, but
they are quite good at walking away from the ones that they don't like).

Does this make since? I'd really like to know if someone feels this is
not an unschooling approach and why.

Many thanks.
-Lisa in AZ

Valerie

I don't think that too much
> television is good for anyone, and being that my children are only
6 and
> 2, it is my job as a parent to help them determine the quantity and
> quality of the television and the food that the like. > Does this
make since? I'd really like to know if someone feels this is
> not an unschooling approach and why.
>
> Many thanks.
> -Lisa in AZ

Hi Lisa,

Since you asked, :-) "I don't think" and "it is my job to
determine" are not my idea of radical unschooling approaches. It was
never my job to say how much tv was good for Laurie or what food she
would like. Everything was available and she chose wisely. It's when
people censor what someone sees, says or eats that the curiosity
peaks and it becomes almost an obsession to obtain or see the
forbidden. And if they decide they want it, it then becomes a moral
quandary for them. Do I do what I want to do and hide it from Mom
and lie about it if I'm caught? Or do I just accept that Mom is the
authority that I dare not cross? Neither one creates trust and
friendship with your children.
love, Valerie