B & S Nowicke

Ok - This is getting way too distorted for me -

My original post (intro - long) included a line about my kids squabbling - fighting, disagreeing - I forget the exact word used - but what I was - and still am trying to address is the typical every day squabbles that kids get into. Not some DOMESTIC VIOLENCE issue - give me a break already - talk abt an extreme and twisted version of the original post! My kids are 5 and 8 for God's sake! We're not talking domestic violence - GET IT?

What I said and still stand by is I don't take sides - I don't teach my kids a victim mentality - i.e., laying blame and excepting no responsibility for a situation. (And no Sandra - I did not say your kids have that mentality. I don't know you or your kids!) Quite frankly I don't need you passing judgment on me and mine or making a childhood squabble into a friggin' domestic violence issue.

Quit twisting and turning my original and subsequent posts into some kind of ultra-violent situation going on! For the couple of folks who offered an author or book recommendation - Thank you. That is what I was seeking in addition to needing to vent some steam after several VERY hot days the stretched little tempers to the snapping point on one to many occassions.

So here's the bottom line - I withdraw my post abt squabble in the interest of my own sanity and peoples delete fingers growing exhausted by this ridiculous escalation. From a childhood squabble to a domestic violence issue - Wow! Who would have ever thought it could happen? If the rest of you want to carry on with the topic - so be it - I will be using the delete key from this point forward.

I guess I am under the impression that this is an online support group for unschooling minded homeschoolers. In the past few days I've seen cheap shots taken at Christian homeschoolers and others and seen words twisted into an unrecognizable form - my own and others. There extremists in every avenue of education - ps, private, homeschool, school at home, unschoolers, etc. etc. In fact, that can be said about virtually any topic of life. I just didn't think this was an extremists forum, because that is in many instances how it is feeling to me.

Sandra, I sincerely need an answer to this question - What exactly is the role of this list....because maybe I'm the one in the wrong place?

Susan N.


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achisms5

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "B & S Nowicke" <snowicke@c...> wrote:

-=- Ok - This is getting way too distorted for me -=-

Even though you may have been the one who started this thread, the
responses aren't intended for you alone. It may be helpful to others-
-me for instance.


-=- My original post (intro - long) included a line about my kids
squabbling - fighting, disagreeing - I forget the exact word used -
but what I was - and still am trying to address is the typical every
day squabbles that kids get into. Not some DOMESTIC VIOLENCE issue -
give me a break already - talk abt an extreme and twisted version of
the original post! My kids are 5 and 8 for God's sake! We're not
talking domestic violence - GET IT?-=-


When I try to think of a way to resolve an issue or what general,
underlying, philosophy to use, I often think about how it would apply
in an extreme situation or in the world outside of our family
context. For instance, I don't say "Hitting is no way to solve a
problem." because in the rest of the world, in families that spank
and in dictators who want more power, hitting and violence do help
them get what they want (solve a problem). I do say "I don't think
hitting is the best way to solve a problem and in this house hitting
is not ok." I have told my children it is ok to hit in
self-defense or to protect others but I have also told them it is
never ok to hit (in the context of a sqabble with each other--
although I didn't make that clear to them). Sandra's point about not
saying to never hit helped me to see that I was sending a mixed
message.




-=- What I said and still stand by is I don't take sides - I don't
teach my kids a victim mentality - i.e., laying blame and excepting
no responsibility for a situation. (And no Sandra - I did not say
your kids have that mentality. I don't know you or your kids!) Quite
frankly I don't need you passing judgment on me and mine or making a
childhood squabble into a friggin' domestic violence issue.-=-

Again, take this to an extreme. If your bil was beating your sister
would you tell her to accept her part of the responsibility (that is
how many women stay in these situations) or would you tell her that
her husband was wrong and to get out? Isn't the latter taking sides?
If it were me, I would tell her to get out. After she was safely
away, I might ask her to examine why she allowed herself to be
treated that way and to work on figuring out a way to make better
choices in the future.

-=- Quit twisting and turning my original and subsequent posts into
some kind of ultra-violent situation going on! -=-

Nobody was turning *your* situation into an ultra-violent extreme.

-=- So here's the bottom line - I withdraw my post abt squabble -=-

Too late. Once you say something you can't take it back. That's
another thing I try to tell my children to help them be mindful of
what they say to others. I tell them they can change their mind or
clarify or apolgize tho. Someone said--I don't remember who-- that
they don't get involved with their children's arguements and leave
them to work it out for themselves. I think that is a lot to ask of
children. My son, seemingly, isn't as hurt by words as his sister
is. How will come to understand the difference in their sensibilities
if no one bothers to point this out to him?


-=- I will be using the delete key from this point forward.-=-

Your choice but isn't that avoidance? And aren't you failing to
accept your part of the responsibility for this squabble?


Mary

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/6/02 10:49:29 PM, snowicke@... writes:

<< From a childhood squabble to a domestic violence issue - Wow! Who would
have ever thought it could happen? >>

I doubt that you're suggesting that violence in adults has no roots in their
upbringing, experiences or frustrations.

And when the police are called because neighbors can hear arguing, the
neighbors call either because it's disturbing their peace (legitimate
complaint) or because they're afraid it could turn violent (as I called when
my neighbor was yelling full-throat at 6:30 in the morning, "Do you WANT me
to hit you? I think you just WANT me to hit you!"), the police call that,
legally, "A domestic disturbance."

What's described as a "squabble," if it has any violence or fear or
continuance, and if it's possible that it could turn violent (which any
argument could in an instant), that is the same as "a domestic disturbance,"
which is one action removed from "domestic violence."

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/7/2002 8:11:46 AM Central Standard Time,
marydan@... writes:


> Even though you may have been the one who started this thread, the
> responses aren't intended for you alone. It may be helpful to others-
> -me for instance.

I have to say I agree with this! This thread has been incredibly helpful to
me. I love how everyone questions each other and leads me to re-think my own
issues and convictions. I'm learning all the time too...

Elizabeth


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