Re: Intro - long
B & S Nowicke
Ok - I've been lurking for quite a few months and figure it's time to do an intro -
I'm Susan - mom to one ds - 8yo next week! and identical triplet daughters who just turned 5yo last week. I pulled my son from a private school last February and the youngest of my trio from ps special ed in May. Without all the gory details - our's is a story full of frustration and the crushing of a child's fragile spirit and a mother's search for answers when her heart was full of doubt....
It has taken alot of time to de-school my son and to re-ignite his interest in exploring life and all it has to offer. He still struggles at times - feeling "too dumb to know anything" (his words) - but those occasions are getting to be a rarity, thankfully. He has survived mom's "experimenting" with h/s methodologies - from school-at-home and rigid structure to no structure (and everything in-between). Though today at my dental appt - it was clear he has developed a new confidence in interacting w/ adults - he fired off questions for the dentist faster than he could answer them - everything from business management (go figure) to various tools and their functions. As we were leaving the dentist asked him if he wants to be a dentist when he grows up - he told him "Not a chance - I just want to know how your business works!" Sounds like a budding entrepreneur is in the house.
My girls having gone through 2.5 yrs of early intervention due to global developmental delays from being preemies and 1 daughter (the "baby" of the trio) has some medical issues including epilepsy - in which medications dulled her mental abilities to near zombie-hood before we connected and switched to full medical treatment & management through our neurological team in MO. (we live in CA). So, the girls had very "schoolish ideas" of what homeschooling was to be.... I think they are finally over the hump with expecting me to whip out the white board and the worksheets everyday. It was almost a "visionary-type moment" last week - All the neighborhood kids were preparing to head back to school and they wanted to know when homeschool would start! Yikes! I sat down with them at bedtime and explained that kids that go to school only get "x" number of hours in school of "learning time" and that the teacher dictates what and how and how much time they get to learn something - they do not get to play computer games all day (as Timon's Mazes is their latest passion on the pc) in fact, they might not even get to play on a computer at all! and even if they are really interested in something - the teacher will decide when they are "done" learning about it. I explained that at home - they can play, veg-out, tv, video, pc, experiment or tinker, etc. to "learn" from the moment they wake to the moment they fall asleep - and they can focus (or not) on anything they choose....no time limits - no switching "subjects at X:30" etc. They have all decided free structure homeschool is ok now - and that they actually have more learning time than the "school kids". That was a hurdle I never expected to have to jump with them....but now that we're over it they are much free-er in their play and not consumed with "doing school stuff". Amazing the impact societal expectations has on even the youngest child if we allow it!
I struggle with my dh asking - "What are you doing in school with the kids?" etc and have enjoyed the threads on this topic - perhaps I'll try the quotes idea.... I also struggle with the "no" thing - though I think I'm getting better. We still have battles here btwn the kids - I can't remember which thread I read someone say that doesn't happen to them? how do you accomplish that? My kids love to play and explore together but, they still squabble - call names and even hit each other when tempers flare. I try to stay out of it and encourage them to work out their differences "verbally" - especially since I don't always know who the instigator was.
I am trying to create a more learning friendly environment - taking things off the high shelves and making stuff as accessible as one can with a puppy in the house. We have several dolls and plastic animals ho have joined our "medic squad" with varying injuries and missing parts! LOL! Fortunately, gauze and bandages are great fun and the toys are much more patient than the pets are with receiving treatment!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm Susan - mom to one ds - 8yo next week! and identical triplet daughters who just turned 5yo last week. I pulled my son from a private school last February and the youngest of my trio from ps special ed in May. Without all the gory details - our's is a story full of frustration and the crushing of a child's fragile spirit and a mother's search for answers when her heart was full of doubt....
It has taken alot of time to de-school my son and to re-ignite his interest in exploring life and all it has to offer. He still struggles at times - feeling "too dumb to know anything" (his words) - but those occasions are getting to be a rarity, thankfully. He has survived mom's "experimenting" with h/s methodologies - from school-at-home and rigid structure to no structure (and everything in-between). Though today at my dental appt - it was clear he has developed a new confidence in interacting w/ adults - he fired off questions for the dentist faster than he could answer them - everything from business management (go figure) to various tools and their functions. As we were leaving the dentist asked him if he wants to be a dentist when he grows up - he told him "Not a chance - I just want to know how your business works!" Sounds like a budding entrepreneur is in the house.
My girls having gone through 2.5 yrs of early intervention due to global developmental delays from being preemies and 1 daughter (the "baby" of the trio) has some medical issues including epilepsy - in which medications dulled her mental abilities to near zombie-hood before we connected and switched to full medical treatment & management through our neurological team in MO. (we live in CA). So, the girls had very "schoolish ideas" of what homeschooling was to be.... I think they are finally over the hump with expecting me to whip out the white board and the worksheets everyday. It was almost a "visionary-type moment" last week - All the neighborhood kids were preparing to head back to school and they wanted to know when homeschool would start! Yikes! I sat down with them at bedtime and explained that kids that go to school only get "x" number of hours in school of "learning time" and that the teacher dictates what and how and how much time they get to learn something - they do not get to play computer games all day (as Timon's Mazes is their latest passion on the pc) in fact, they might not even get to play on a computer at all! and even if they are really interested in something - the teacher will decide when they are "done" learning about it. I explained that at home - they can play, veg-out, tv, video, pc, experiment or tinker, etc. to "learn" from the moment they wake to the moment they fall asleep - and they can focus (or not) on anything they choose....no time limits - no switching "subjects at X:30" etc. They have all decided free structure homeschool is ok now - and that they actually have more learning time than the "school kids". That was a hurdle I never expected to have to jump with them....but now that we're over it they are much free-er in their play and not consumed with "doing school stuff". Amazing the impact societal expectations has on even the youngest child if we allow it!
I struggle with my dh asking - "What are you doing in school with the kids?" etc and have enjoyed the threads on this topic - perhaps I'll try the quotes idea.... I also struggle with the "no" thing - though I think I'm getting better. We still have battles here btwn the kids - I can't remember which thread I read someone say that doesn't happen to them? how do you accomplish that? My kids love to play and explore together but, they still squabble - call names and even hit each other when tempers flare. I try to stay out of it and encourage them to work out their differences "verbally" - especially since I don't always know who the instigator was.
I am trying to create a more learning friendly environment - taking things off the high shelves and making stuff as accessible as one can with a puppy in the house. We have several dolls and plastic animals ho have joined our "medic squad" with varying injuries and missing parts! LOL! Fortunately, gauze and bandages are great fun and the toys are much more patient than the pets are with receiving treatment!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
Wow Susan,
Sounds like your hands are full and your heart as well. I do imagine though
that all will be fine in your house. Just something in your tone! Welcome to
unschooling and watching your children enjoy life every day.
Mary B
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Sounds like your hands are full and your heart as well. I do imagine though
that all will be fine in your house. Just something in your tone! Welcome to
unschooling and watching your children enjoy life every day.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/5/02 6:17:57 PM, snowicke@... writes:
Triplets! Triplets would be hard for losing the advantage of "rank" and
experience that you get with varying ages.
<< We still have battles here btwn the kids - I can't remember which thread
I read someone say that doesn't happen to them? how do you accomplish that?
. . . . I try to stay out of it and encourage them to work out their
differences "verbally" - especially since I don't always know who the
instigator was.>>
I never leave them to work out their own differences. Never.
I think it's one of the cruelist things a parent or a teacher can do.
That's one reason we don't have squabbles, is that squables aren't okay to
have. They can get away from the person and get adult help. And any adult
who says "that's not my problem, you work it out" is aiding and abetting
bullying, and leaving young children at the mercy of OTHER young children,
one of the prime complaints of homeschoolers about schools.
I had a cousin live with me who was two years younger and she was MEAN.
Vicious. And she hit, and lied, and was destructive of property. We
placated her until she was grown and then we stayed totally away from her.
Kids need help figuring out HOW to negotiate problems and situations. They
need modelling.
Since I don't want my kids saying "That's not my problem" to me or to
siblings or friends, I don't say it to them.
Sandra
Triplets! Triplets would be hard for losing the advantage of "rank" and
experience that you get with varying ages.
<< We still have battles here btwn the kids - I can't remember which thread
I read someone say that doesn't happen to them? how do you accomplish that?
. . . . I try to stay out of it and encourage them to work out their
differences "verbally" - especially since I don't always know who the
instigator was.>>
I never leave them to work out their own differences. Never.
I think it's one of the cruelist things a parent or a teacher can do.
That's one reason we don't have squabbles, is that squables aren't okay to
have. They can get away from the person and get adult help. And any adult
who says "that's not my problem, you work it out" is aiding and abetting
bullying, and leaving young children at the mercy of OTHER young children,
one of the prime complaints of homeschoolers about schools.
I had a cousin live with me who was two years younger and she was MEAN.
Vicious. And she hit, and lied, and was destructive of property. We
placated her until she was grown and then we stayed totally away from her.
Kids need help figuring out HOW to negotiate problems and situations. They
need modelling.
Since I don't want my kids saying "That's not my problem" to me or to
siblings or friends, I don't say it to them.
Sandra
KT
>I realize your girls are 5 now, but sometimes it helps to know where to
>
>My girls having gone through 2.5 yrs of early intervention due to global developmental delays from being preemies and 1 daughter (the "baby" of the trio) has some medical issues including epilepsy - in which medications dulled her mental abilities to near zombie-hood before we connected and switched to full medical treatment & management through our neurological team in MO. (we live in CA).
>
go to find other folks in similar situations. So I'll tell you about my
friend's website. www.thepreemieplace.org It just celebrated its one
year anniversary, and they are getting ready to partner with Abbot Labs
to place computers and resource rooms for parents in every
NICU-called-something-else in the UK. That program will be followed on
in the US in the next year or so.
And all started by a couple of moms who had preemies and needed the help
of other moms.
With that, I'm signing off the list, as our house was sold today and I
only have 24 days to move!
Tuck
Fetteroll
on 9/5/02 8:04 PM, B & S Nowicke at snowicke@... wrote:
Listen book helped me to see things from a child's point of view so I could
see how a child's "irrational" point of view and actions actually made sense
from their point of view and why my "sensible" point of view made very
little sense to a child. It will probably help you see the dynamics involved
more clearly and how the role you're playing has a different effect than
sense would suggest it should.
It has lots of practical ideas to try out too.
we mean or what we do, and can only go by what words we use. Replies often
tend to go beyond specifics of someone's particular situation to a bigger
picture discussion of that type of problem. Sometimes from that some people
can say "Oh, I hadn't seen it like that before!" Or they can say "Nope,
doesn't apply to us." (But it might apply to someone else who is reading
along in a similar situation.) Or "Let me explain that a little better." ;-)
squabble -- and undoubtedly *are* doing what seems to make sense -- but it's
not getting translated into something that they find meets the needs they
have in that situation. So they keep falling back on something (squabbling)
that offers some sort of satisfaction.
And yes, I know you're saying "Yes, I know it's not working. I'm asking what
I should do!" But often when we're certain we are doing it the right way but
it isn't working, it's because we aren't seeing things from the child's
point of view, only from our own. Which is why I often recommend the How to
Talk book.
(And I can't offer anything from personal experience since I only have one
child!)
Joyce
> I can't remember which thread I read someone say that doesn't happen to them?Have you read Siblings Without Rivalry? Their How To Talk So Kids Will
> how do you accomplish that? My kids love to play and explore together but,
> they still squabble - call names and even hit each other when tempers flare.
> I try to stay out of it and encourage them to work out their differences
> "verbally" - especially since I don't always know who the instigator was.
Listen book helped me to see things from a child's point of view so I could
see how a child's "irrational" point of view and actions actually made sense
from their point of view and why my "sensible" point of view made very
little sense to a child. It will probably help you see the dynamics involved
more clearly and how the role you're playing has a different effect than
sense would suggest it should.
It has lots of practical ideas to try out too.
> Sandra - first I never said - "It's not my problem". I do not use the "It'sIt's helpful when reading replies to recognize that people can't know what
> not my problem" response - quite the contrary - I say we must "use our words
> to work it out" i.e., not react physically to one another - or be assaultive
> verbally.
we mean or what we do, and can only go by what words we use. Replies often
tend to go beyond specifics of someone's particular situation to a bigger
picture discussion of that type of problem. Sometimes from that some people
can say "Oh, I hadn't seen it like that before!" Or they can say "Nope,
doesn't apply to us." (But it might apply to someone else who is reading
along in a similar situation.) Or "Let me explain that a little better." ;-)
> I can not solve every personal difference they have in life - instead I chooseAnd I suspect you *think* you're offering them the skills for the times they
> to equip them with the skills (and guidance until the skills are developed) to
> handle those challenges without losing it.
squabble -- and undoubtedly *are* doing what seems to make sense -- but it's
not getting translated into something that they find meets the needs they
have in that situation. So they keep falling back on something (squabbling)
that offers some sort of satisfaction.
And yes, I know you're saying "Yes, I know it's not working. I'm asking what
I should do!" But often when we're certain we are doing it the right way but
it isn't working, it's because we aren't seeing things from the child's
point of view, only from our own. Which is why I often recommend the How to
Talk book.
(And I can't offer anything from personal experience since I only have one
child!)
Joyce