debi watson

>>He's never asked for a gun. I would consider a florescent green one now!
But toy guns that look like real guns still bother me. A gun is not a toy,
and I think that can get blurred by realistic looking toy guns.

I totally agree with this, and it's not that I think guns are evil or some such -- just deserving of caution and a degree of respect. The kids actually took knife safety and gun safety, and own their own Moro knives (a real wood whittlin', survival type item -- not as cool as a dagger but still potentially dangerous) from their time in Junior Forest Wardens. They also use sharp knives in the kitchen, and have from the time they were three (thanks to The Continuum Concept by Jean Liedloff). I am still quite new to this unschooling thing, and evolving gradually. Thanks for everyone's patience as I try to "get it". Debi



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan & Brenda Leonard

> The trust between parent and child is worth way more than any rules about toy
> weapons, and when moms are calling all the rules and making dire predictions
> and shaming their kids, pretty much those predictions turn out NOT to be
> true, and so the child's trust in the mother erodes a little.

I think there's a lot to be considered about a child's age when banning
weapons or other things, too. We banned toy guns when Tim was very young.
I think a little kid is too young to be able to judge the difference between
a toy and the real thing, and I didn't want him picking one up. Part of my
fears may be related to my community; many military members own personal
weapons. Most store them safely, but all it takes is one who doesn't.

I can easily see how things change in many areas as a child becomes more
able to reason and be responsible. At 6, my son has had swords for years.
He's never asked for a gun. I would consider a florescent green one now!
But toy guns that look like real guns still bother me. A gun is not a toy,
and I think that can get blurred by realistic looking toy guns.

brenda

Tia Leschke

>
>But toy guns that look like real guns still bother me. A gun is not a toy,
>and I think that can get blurred by realistic looking toy guns.

They can also be dangerous. If a kid is playing with a realistic toy gun,
and someone thinks it's real, he could be shot. It's happened.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

marji

> >But toy guns that look like real guns still bother me. A gun is not a toy,
> >and I think that can get blurred by realistic looking toy guns.
>
>They can also be dangerous. If a kid is playing with a realistic toy gun,
>and someone thinks it's real, he could be shot. It's happened.
>

And...

>I had a no guns rule for - hmm, had to stop and think, here - for something
>close to 22 years of parenting. It held up until I finally had a kid who
>persisted and persisted and PERSISTED in being fascinated with guns in spite
>of prohibitions, rules, discussions, pleas, more discussions...

A friend of mine who abhorred guns had a young son who adored guns and was
also absolutely fascinated with them. She could see that she had to yield
in some way to his intense attraction and feed his head about this. Here's
one of the things she did. I was so impressed: She brought him to their
local police station and asked the cops there to talk with her son about
guns, to answer all his questions, and show him how they worked. Because
of his fascination, he did not allow any shyness to interfere with this
opportunity and he asked many questions. They spent a long time there. I
think it was a benefit for all.

I was so grateful to her for doing this because she inspired me (my son was
tiny at the time) to look at everything as an opportunity, not just the
things that attract me, but much more importantly, the things that attract
my son.

As an aside, this past summer we were witnesses to a small car accident
that a police office was also invited to. The cop was a real nice man. My
son was mighty shy, but he had never seen a cop up close before and had
lots of questions for me about the policeman, his car and his uniform, and
- of course - his gun. He was too shy to speak directly with the cop at
first, so I asked all the questions Liam had until he felt comfortable
enough to ask them on his own. The cop was just wonderful and took quite a
bit of time to show us stuff and answer Liam's questions in great
detail. My favorite was this.

Liam: What do you use your gun for?

Cop: I hope I never use it. I use it to protect me first and you
second. But, it's the very last thing I'll use, not the first.

Then, he proceeded to tell us about the techniques he will use before he
will reach for his gun (he had an interesting pepper spray story that Liam
and I still talk about).

This talk that we had was impressive enough to Liam that he will bring up
aspects of it from time to time.

~marji~

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/28/02 3:34:02 PM, abtleo@... writes:

<< A gun is not a toy,
and I think that can get blurred by realistic looking toy guns. >>

People say that a lot, and I know that young adults/teens have been injured
or killed for pointing a realistic looking gun at another teen or adult (or
policeman).

But my kids had realistic, full-size, anatomically correct baby dolls and
they didn't get confused. They had realistic full-size toy food and they
always knew the difference.

Sandra

[email protected]

<<But my kids had realistic, full-size, anatomically correct baby dolls and
they didn't get confused. They had realistic full-size toy food and they
always knew the difference.

Sandra>>

I'm not concerned about my KIDS knowing the difference, but strangers who
see my kids waving them.(fake guns not baby dolls) Same reason I ask Zack to
leave his laser pointers at home.
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160

Fetteroll

on 8/29/02 10:45 AM, ElissaJC@... at ElissaJC@...
wrote:

> I'm not concerned about my KIDS knowing the difference, but strangers who
> see my kids waving them.(fake guns not baby dolls) Same reason I ask Zack to
> leave his laser pointers at home.

My husband was holding a realistic looking baby doll for Kathryn once with
its neck tucked in the crook of his arm, body dangling down. He got a couple
of double takes and then laughter when people realized it was just a doll.

Joyce

Tia Leschke

>
>People say that a lot, and I know that young adults/teens have been injured
>or killed for pointing a realistic looking gun at another teen or adult (or
>policeman).
>
>But my kids had realistic, full-size, anatomically correct baby dolls and
>they didn't get confused. They had realistic full-size toy food and they
>always knew the difference.

I wouldn't worry about the child knowing the difference. The weight of the
thing would be a huge clue. <g> I would only be concerned about other
people telling the difference, and that could be solved by limiting *where*
the realistic gun was played with.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Leslie Avery

My 10 year old son loves guns, he has realistic guns
and water guns. He makes his own guns and enhances
guns with recyclable materials around the house like
paper towel and toilet paper holders. He has built
telescopes on his guns, it is amazing to me how
creative he is. I purchased a book called the The
History of Weapons and he loves it

We talk about what real guns do to people and we watch
movies about war and he sees what guns do to people.
He also knows that you don't point a gun at another
and that we do not take realistic guns out of the
house. I don't believe a gun makes a violent person.
I believe some boys are either hunters or farmers.
And that is an instinctual thing. We would have had
to be one or the other in order for our race to
survive. I often wonder if by denying their interest
in guns is going against their nature, it is in my
son's case.

Lack of respect and love trying to control those
things lead to violence. Going against what is
natural is also violence. Check out the summer issue
of Paths of Learning magazine, this is an excellent
issue about violence.



Leslie
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/28/02 3:34:02 PM,
> abtleo@... writes:
>
> << A gun is not a toy,
> and I think that can get blurred by realistic
> looking toy guns. >>
>
> People say that a lot, and I know that young
> adults/teens have been injured
> or killed for pointing a realistic looking gun at
> another teen or adult (or
> policeman).
>
> But my kids had realistic, full-size, anatomically
> correct baby dolls and
> they didn't get confused. They had realistic
> full-size toy food and they
> always knew the difference.
>
> Sandra
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/29/02 11:37:06 AM, ljbakavery@... writes:

<< Lack of respect and love trying to control those
things lead to violence. Going against what is
natural is also violence. Check out the summer issue
of Paths of Learning magazine, this is an excellent
issue about violence. >>

Richard Prystowsky is the publisher of that magazine. The list of tapes
posted this morning has a talk he and I did together called Peaceful
Parenting. We didn't mention guns or rough play a bit, but for those
pondering such questions, it might be worth a listen.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>Check out the summer issue
>of Paths of Learning magazine, this is an excellent
>issue about violence.

This is one I've never seen. Where can it be found?
Tia


No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Leslie Avery

Tia,

The website is www.great-ideas.org or their toll free
number is 1-800-639-4122. I just subscribed and their
spring issue was entitled Spirituality in Education.
After I read it I knew I was hooked. The editor
Richard P. (a long name I can't begin to spell) and
Sandra gave a workshop on Peaceful Parenting at the
recent Homeschooling Conference in Sacremento.

Leslie
--- Tia Leschke <leschke@...> wrote:
>
> >Check out the summer issue
> >of Paths of Learning magazine, this is an excellent
> >issue about violence.
>
> This is one I've never seen. Where can it be found?
> Tia
>
>
> No one can make you feel inferior without your
> consent.
> Eleanor Roosevelt
> *********************************************
> Tia Leschke
> leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
>
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

Pam Hartley

----------
>From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2308
>Date: Thu, Aug 29, 2002, 12:41 PM
>

> I wouldn't worry about the child knowing the difference. The weight of the
> thing would be a huge clue. <g> I would only be concerned about other
> people telling the difference, and that could be solved by limiting *where*
> the realistic gun was played with.


Real guns smell different, too (plastic smells different than
metal-with-gun-oil).

Pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/29/02 1:45:30 PM, ljbakavery@... writes:

<< Richard P. (a long name I can't begin to spell) >>

Prystowsky.

kinda pris TAO skee

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/29/02 12:37:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
ljbakavery@... writes:


> We talk about what real guns do to people and we watch
> movies about war and he sees what guns do to people.
> He also knows that you don't point a gun at another
> and that we do not take realistic guns out of the
> house. I don't believe a gun makes a violent person.

I agree with you very much, I grew up with guns. We hunted all the time, and
we ate what we got. Please don't take this as a criticism. I tell this to
anyone who says they watch movies about war with their children so they see
what guns do to people.
Obviously you know that movies aren't real. BUT sometimes people think that
some of the things portrayed in movies are. One thing most movies don't do is
show, realistically, what guns do to people who have been shot. My cousin was
shot by an abusive exboyfriend. Part of his defense at his trial was that he
didn't know he had actually shot her and killed her because when the gun went
off she didn't fall backwards or go flying backwards like in the movies.
(sick, I know.) He said she got a shocked look on her face and sat down. He
left, because he said he thought he had just *scared her real good.* He said
that had he known that she was injured he would have helped her. So I tell
people this because I want people to know that just because in movies people
stumble around, moan and groan, fly backwards, and all that, it doesn't
always happen like that in real life.
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
>The website is www.great-ideas.org or their toll free
>number is 1-800-639-4122. I just subscribed and their
>spring issue was entitled Spirituality in Education.

Thanks. I'll have a look.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Tia Leschke

>Part of his defense at his trial was that he
>didn't know he had actually shot her and killed her because when the gun went
>off she didn't fall backwards or go flying backwards like in the movies.
>(sick, I know.) He said she got a shocked look on her face and sat down. He
>left, because he said he thought he had just *scared her real good.* He said
>that had he known that she was injured he would have helped her.

Oh yikes! I guess it's ok to shoot someone just to scare them, just not to
kill them . . . sigh.
Tia


No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

se

Tia,
I got a couple of back issues at a curriculum fair out here in Halifax. I
thought it was a very impressive publication.
Susanna E. in Halifax, NS, Canada

>>
>>The website is www.great-ideas.org or their toll free
>>number is 1-800-639-4122. I just subscribed and their
>>spring issue was entitled Spirituality in Education.
>
>Thanks. I'll have a look.
>Tia
>
>No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
>Eleanor Roosevelt
>*********************************************
>Tia Leschke
>leschke@...
>On Vancouver Island
>
>
>
>
>
>
>