Luz Shosie and Ned Vare

on 8/26/02 9:28 AM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
Joyce writes:
> We are not an "us" that needs someone whose been there and done that to ask
> our questions for us. (That's feeling awfully schoolish to me.) Those of
> "us" who want to know will ask.
One post says,"all posts are for all list members" and when one person asks
or answers someone directly, you tell them that they should answer to All,
not just one person. But when I do it ( knowing that all posts are to all
listers) then for some reason it's wrong.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. I used the term "us" because I accept
the idea that Bj's response will be read by "us" and not just me.

Luz and I were treated similarly by one of this state's homeschooling groups
and the excuse they used was the same as yours -- that we are not
stakeholders any longer since our child was in college.

If you think that a group of neophites can help each other with no word from
those of us who have "been there and done that" then you are asking the
blind to lead the blind.

I believed that Bj has the perfect position (public school 2nd grade
teacher) from which to tell this list ("us") how to avoid doing to our
children what the schools do to them.

As a writer on the subject, I can use all the information I can get. As
unschoolers involved in the practice every day, many of the list members can
surely use Bj's help in NOT doing what the schools do to children -- namely
Stifling them and lining them up (intimidating them).

I think my post went to the heart of home/unschooling: How not to damage
children the way schools do. If you allow Bj to respond, I believe all of us
can learn a great deal from her, myself included. Frankly, I'm surprised
you didn't ask.

My post to Bj was this:
> You mention the reason you are keeping the kids home
> is so that you don't "stifle" them or have them "lined up." Please tell us
> more about that. Ned Vare

PS Having public school teachers homeschooling their own children lends a
huge amount of credibility to homeschooling. I believe that Bj's reasons
will reinforce, for many parents, their own suspicions about the schools and
their own reasons for homeschooling. If for no one else, let Bj's response
be for Tanya to give to her mother-in-law.

With all the kids being lured back into the public schools and away from
their homes, parents need what Bj seems eager to tell them -- reasons that
support the homeschooling choice.

Fetteroll

on 8/27/02 2:40 AM, Luz Shosie and Ned Vare at nedvare@... wrote:

> One post says,"all posts are for all list members" and when one person asks
> or answers someone directly, you tell them that they should answer to All,
> not just one person. But when I do it ( knowing that all posts are to all
> listers) then for some reason it's wrong.

Ned, this isn't about rules. It's just common sense. People ask questions
because they want an answer for themselves. The fact that they're doing it
in a public place means it isn't a private conversation between two people
and anyone can answer. Since people often have to guess and fill in the
blanks when they're offering suggestions, it's often helpful for people who
are reading the answers to realize that the answers may not apply
specifically to them but to others who have the same question.

> Luz and I were treated similarly by one of this state's homeschooling groups
> and the excuse they used was the same as yours -- that we are not
> stakeholders any longer since our child was in college.

And it wouldn't need said if you had any respect for the niche the list
serves. The list serves the function it was intended for.

This is a busy list, Ned. Just meeting the niche that it does generates a
lot of emails. That's why lists are devoted to specific purposes. So people
can read just about the aspects that they want.

> If you think that a group of neophites can help each other with no word from
> those of us who have "been there and done that" then you are asking the
> blind to lead the blind.

Who said that? I've been unschooling for many years Ned. Many people here
have been also.

> I think my post went to the heart of home/unschooling: How not to damage
> children the way schools do. If you allow Bj to respond, I believe all of us
> can learn a great deal from her, myself included. Frankly, I'm surprised
> you didn't ask.

Because I already know of many ways schools can damage kids. Because I've
been reading what parents have been saying for years and years and years.

(This is meant as no insult to BJ. If she feels it would be helpful to her
to tell her story, then she's more than welcome to do so. That's what people
do here. If Tanya thinks it would be helpful to ask BJ, no on is stopping
her. You asking questions that you feel others should be asking feels
condescending.)

The focus of this list *isn't* how schools damage kids. The focus is how to
move on. Anyone can dwell on the past. It's the moving on that's hard.
That's what we do here. It's what we've done here for 3 1/2 years.

> PS Having public school teachers homeschooling their own children lends a
> huge amount of credibility to homeschooling. I believe that Bj's reasons
> will reinforce, for many parents, their own suspicions about the schools and
> their own reasons for homeschooling. If for no one else, let Bj's response
> be for Tanya to give to her mother-in-law.

This isn't a general homeschooling list. It's *specifically* about
unschooling. *Specifically* about being with our kids and helping them
learn.

Why do you need *this* list to be other than that?

Joyce

Tia Leschke

Ned:

>Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

Ned:

>PS Having public school teachers homeschooling their own children lends a
>huge amount of credibility to homeschooling.

You've already stated that *all* public school teachers are just in it for
their own selfish, corrupt reasons. That would have to apply Bj if you're
going to be consistent. (I certainly wouldn't apply it to Bj, or any of
the many public school teachers who are doing what *they* believe is a
good thing.)
Tia


"Unschool: Live your life as if there were no such thing as school." Ned Vare
*********************************************************
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Tia Leschke

>
>(This is meant as no insult to BJ. If she feels it would be helpful to her
>to tell her story, then she's more than welcome to do so. That's what people
>do here. If Tanya thinks it would be helpful to ask BJ, no on is stopping
>her. You asking questions that you feel others should be asking feels
>condescending.)

This is where my frustration with Ned is coming from. If no one happens to
ask the "right" questions, then *he* asks them, not because he wants the
answers for himself, but because he wants other list members to *see* the
answers.

Reminds me of the typical teacher-led "discussion" in school. The whole
purpose of the discussion is to "bring out" certain points. The lesson
plans are always very clear on which points those are, so the teacher won't
need to do any thinking. (Of course the students aren't really supposed to
either.)
Tia


"Unschool: Live your life as if there were no such thing as school." Ned Vare
*********************************************************
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

zenmomma *

>>Reminds me of the typical teacher-led "discussion" in school. The whole
>>purpose of the discussion is to "bring out" certain points. The lesson
>>plans are always very clear on which points those are, so the teacher
>>won't need to do any thinking. (Of course the students aren't really
>>supposed to either.)>>

That's it! That's what I've been feeling here. I feel like each of those
posts should start with "Now settle down, people..."

Life is good.
~Mary


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