Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Practice what you preach!
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/02 1:01:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
It seems to me that Ned was trying to be supportive of an unschooler's
frustrating personal experience. Like it or not, the fact remains that many
unschoolers are affected by indirect association with public schools. Some
have been extremely wounded by having had their children in those schools and
need to vent and go through the process of working it out of their systems.
Others are affected by friends, neighbors, and relatives who are sold on the
school system. Many of these people (myself included) feel empowered by
"rantings" such as Ned's, after having been beaten down by the system and
baffled as to how to deal with its pervasiveness. I would think that a
feeling of empowerment will give these people the courage to go with the idea
of unschooling.
I think that a few of the long time regular posters are resentful that
someone new to the list has so much to say of interest, and is stealing their
thunder. As long as people are not profane or extremely vulgar, I wish you'd
get off their backs and stop trying to CONTROL everything they say. I keep
hearing unschoolers talk about trusting your children to run with their
ideas, and then you turn around and try to squash every idea posted that you
disagree with. I don't see you practicing what you preach.
Sherry
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> NED!Joyce,
>
> Talk about unschooling.
>
> The Unschooling. Com list is not your personal soap box from which to lob
> rants about the public schools.
>
> It's a place to share our personal experiences and help each other
> unschool.
>
>
It seems to me that Ned was trying to be supportive of an unschooler's
frustrating personal experience. Like it or not, the fact remains that many
unschoolers are affected by indirect association with public schools. Some
have been extremely wounded by having had their children in those schools and
need to vent and go through the process of working it out of their systems.
Others are affected by friends, neighbors, and relatives who are sold on the
school system. Many of these people (myself included) feel empowered by
"rantings" such as Ned's, after having been beaten down by the system and
baffled as to how to deal with its pervasiveness. I would think that a
feeling of empowerment will give these people the courage to go with the idea
of unschooling.
I think that a few of the long time regular posters are resentful that
someone new to the list has so much to say of interest, and is stealing their
thunder. As long as people are not profane or extremely vulgar, I wish you'd
get off their backs and stop trying to CONTROL everything they say. I keep
hearing unschoolers talk about trusting your children to run with their
ideas, and then you turn around and try to squash every idea posted that you
disagree with. I don't see you practicing what you preach.
Sherry
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cmkerin
It bothers me too that this list is for un'schoolers' but people can't seem
to say anything negative about 'school' or maybe not feel comfortable saying
anything knowing that Ned keeps being asked to be quiet.
I understand that some of us, including myself, aren't in the same place as
Ned or others that really dislike 'schools' at this point. This is a
unschooling list though and the fact that some people dislike schools is a
part of the unschooling imo.
I love this list except for the part that people can't seem to speak freely
about 'school's having negative aspects to them. If someone doesn't agree
with Ned or others it seems ok to say so but to to keep telling him to be
quiet, even if his posts annoy some, just doesn't seem *fair* to me either.
Joy(ce)
-----Original Message-----
From: FoxgloveStudio@... [mailto:FoxgloveStudio@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 9:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Practice what you preach!
In a message dated 8/23/02 1:01:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
It seems to me that Ned was trying to be supportive of an unschooler's
frustrating personal experience. Like it or not, the fact remains that many
unschoolers are affected by indirect association with public schools. Some
have been extremely wounded by having had their children in those schools
and
need to vent and go through the process of working it out of their systems.
Others are affected by friends, neighbors, and relatives who are sold on the
school system. Many of these people (myself included) feel empowered by
"rantings" such as Ned's, after having been beaten down by the system and
baffled as to how to deal with its pervasiveness. I would think that a
feeling of empowerment will give these people the courage to go with the
idea
of unschooling.
I think that a few of the long time regular posters are resentful that
someone new to the list has so much to say of interest, and is stealing
their
thunder. As long as people are not profane or extremely vulgar, I wish you'd
get off their backs and stop trying to CONTROL everything they say. I keep
hearing unschoolers talk about trusting your children to run with their
ideas, and then you turn around and try to squash every idea posted that you
disagree with. I don't see you practicing what you preach.
Sherry
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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to say anything negative about 'school' or maybe not feel comfortable saying
anything knowing that Ned keeps being asked to be quiet.
I understand that some of us, including myself, aren't in the same place as
Ned or others that really dislike 'schools' at this point. This is a
unschooling list though and the fact that some people dislike schools is a
part of the unschooling imo.
I love this list except for the part that people can't seem to speak freely
about 'school's having negative aspects to them. If someone doesn't agree
with Ned or others it seems ok to say so but to to keep telling him to be
quiet, even if his posts annoy some, just doesn't seem *fair* to me either.
Joy(ce)
-----Original Message-----
From: FoxgloveStudio@... [mailto:FoxgloveStudio@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 9:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Practice what you preach!
In a message dated 8/23/02 1:01:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
> NED!Joyce,
>
> Talk about unschooling.
>
> The Unschooling. Com list is not your personal soap box from which to lob
> rants about the public schools.
>
> It's a place to share our personal experiences and help each other
> unschool.
>
>
It seems to me that Ned was trying to be supportive of an unschooler's
frustrating personal experience. Like it or not, the fact remains that many
unschoolers are affected by indirect association with public schools. Some
have been extremely wounded by having had their children in those schools
and
need to vent and go through the process of working it out of their systems.
Others are affected by friends, neighbors, and relatives who are sold on the
school system. Many of these people (myself included) feel empowered by
"rantings" such as Ned's, after having been beaten down by the system and
baffled as to how to deal with its pervasiveness. I would think that a
feeling of empowerment will give these people the courage to go with the
idea
of unschooling.
I think that a few of the long time regular posters are resentful that
someone new to the list has so much to say of interest, and is stealing
their
thunder. As long as people are not profane or extremely vulgar, I wish you'd
get off their backs and stop trying to CONTROL everything they say. I keep
hearing unschoolers talk about trusting your children to run with their
ideas, and then you turn around and try to squash every idea posted that you
disagree with. I don't see you practicing what you preach.
Sherry
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
zenmomma *
>>I think that a few of the long time regular posters are resentful thatI think this comment is a bit off track (to put it politely). I think it's
>>someone new to the list has so much to say of interest, and is stealing
>>their thunder.>>
more that long time posters are intimately familiar with the workings and
purpose of this list *as stated by the list owner*. Long time posters are
also aware of what will take a discussion, and possibly the list itelf, so
far off track as to be unrecognizable.
>>As long as people are not profane or extremely vulgar, I wish you'dget off their backs and stop trying to CONTROL everything they say.>>
Do you really not see the difference between political grandstanding and
meaningful unschooling discussion?
>>I keep hearing unschoolers talk about trusting your children to run withI didn't see people disagreeing with the ideas, only the attempt to change
>>their ideas, and then you turn around and try to squash every idea posted
>>that you disagree with. I don't see you practicing what you preach.>>
this particular forum into a campaign for those ideas. (Well, maybe there
was disagreement with the all or nothing statements.) This is an
international list meant to share unschooling philosopy and ideas. IMHO
school bashing and political rabble rousing are better suited to lists aimed
at those purposes.
FWIW I have had a child who had a horrendous ps experience. If someone
posts an actual question or comment about their ps experiences, I will be
the first to chime in with empathy and support in their anger. I won't,
however, encourage that person to hold on to their anger. I will gently
suggest that it's okay to move on to the joy. That's what unschoooling has
done for me and my family. Allowed us to experience the joy of learning.
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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[email protected]
In a message dated 8/24/2002 1:31:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
sums it up for me. The joy of having my 9 y/o dd home with me and learning
together will be the greatest experience in my life. I am looking forward to
it and appreciate the ability to post and read posts of all different
opinions and ideas.
Thanks and Bless you all,
Collette
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
> it's okay to move on to the joyI am new to this list (a few days) and I think this pretty much
sums it up for me. The joy of having my 9 y/o dd home with me and learning
together will be the greatest experience in my life. I am looking forward to
it and appreciate the ability to post and read posts of all different
opinions and ideas.
Thanks and Bless you all,
Collette
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Helen Hegener
At 9:14 AM -0400 8/24/02, FoxgloveStudio@... wrote:
the schools are indeed rotten nasty places and they were right for
getting their kids out, along with suggestions for what to do next,
there are other lists which do a much, much better job of providing
that level of support and encouragement and empowerment than this one
could ever hope to, and all are deeply sympathetic to unschooling
sensitivities. I suggest checking out a few of them:
HEM-Networking
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HEM-Networking
NHEN-Speakout
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NHEN-Speakout
AHA-Discussion
http://www,groups.yahoo.com/group/AHA-Discussion
There is also much more support for unschooling, including discussion
boards to specifically address the frustrating personal experiences
of those who have, as you say, "been extremely wounded by having had
their children in school and need to vent," at the web site from
which this list was born:
http://www.unschooling.com
we're saying is that, while what Ned was posting might be of interest
to those who haven't heard it all before, there are many much better
places for him to elucidate (and he's doing so on some of those other
lists), but we'd like to keep this list focused on primarily
discussing unschooling.
understand what really happened on this list.
why we kept insisting that Ned not disrupt this list with his
politically charged essays. Ned himself very graciously deferred a
week or so ago - if you weren't on the list to read his reply to me I
can send you a copy of it.
Helen, listowner
>It seems to me that Ned was trying to be supportive of an unschooler'sIf, by a "feeling of empowerment," you mean lots of validation that
>frustrating personal experience. Like it or not, the fact remains that many
>unschoolers are affected by indirect association with public schools. Some
>have been extremely wounded by having had their children in those schools and
>need to vent and go through the process of working it out of their systems.
>Others are affected by friends, neighbors, and relatives who are sold on the
>school system. Many of these people (myself included) feel empowered by
>"rantings" such as Ned's, after having been beaten down by the system and
>baffled as to how to deal with its pervasiveness. I would think that a
>feeling of empowerment will give these people the courage to go with the idea
>of unschooling.
the schools are indeed rotten nasty places and they were right for
getting their kids out, along with suggestions for what to do next,
there are other lists which do a much, much better job of providing
that level of support and encouragement and empowerment than this one
could ever hope to, and all are deeply sympathetic to unschooling
sensitivities. I suggest checking out a few of them:
HEM-Networking
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HEM-Networking
NHEN-Speakout
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NHEN-Speakout
AHA-Discussion
http://www,groups.yahoo.com/group/AHA-Discussion
There is also much more support for unschooling, including discussion
boards to specifically address the frustrating personal experiences
of those who have, as you say, "been extremely wounded by having had
their children in school and need to vent," at the web site from
which this list was born:
http://www.unschooling.com
>I think that a few of the long time regular posters are resentful thatThis list is far too mature for attitudes like that, Sherry. All
>someone new to the list has so much to say of interest, and is stealing their
>thunder.
we're saying is that, while what Ned was posting might be of interest
to those who haven't heard it all before, there are many much better
places for him to elucidate (and he's doing so on some of those other
lists), but we'd like to keep this list focused on primarily
discussing unschooling.
>As long as people are not profane or extremely vulgar, I wish you'dI think this is an unfair analysis of the situation. Please try to
>get off their backs and stop trying to CONTROL everything they say.
understand what really happened on this list.
> I keepAgain, I don't think you really understand what the problem was or
>hearing unschoolers talk about trusting your children to run with their
>ideas, and then you turn around and try to squash every idea posted that you
>disagree with. I don't see you practicing what you preach.
why we kept insisting that Ned not disrupt this list with his
politically charged essays. Ned himself very graciously deferred a
week or so ago - if you weren't on the list to read his reply to me I
can send you a copy of it.
Helen, listowner
Helen Hegener
At 1:41 PM -0400 8/24/02, rayvenne@... wrote:
my life" - what a beautiful picture (and very warm memories) that
evokes!
I smiled at your wording too, Mary: "...move on to the joy." Nicely put.
Helen
> > it's okay to move on to the joyI love the way you put that, Collette - "the greatest experience in
> I am new to this list (a few days) and I think this pretty much
>sums it up for me. The joy of having my 9 y/o dd home with me and learning
>together will be the greatest experience in my life. I am looking forward to
>it and appreciate the ability to post and read posts of all different
>opinions and ideas.
my life" - what a beautiful picture (and very warm memories) that
evokes!
I smiled at your wording too, Mary: "...move on to the joy." Nicely put.
Helen
[email protected]
<< If someone
posts an actual question or comment about their ps experiences, I will be
the first to chime in with empathy and support in their anger. I won't,
however, encourage that person to hold on to their anger. I will gently
suggest that it's okay to move on to the joy. >>
Good point.
I had two phone calls last week from parents who were angry with school and
taking their kids out. I let them tell the story once through, and then I
steered the conversation to unschooling possibilities, and local in-person
resources.
From experience I know that they need to tell that story and they will
probably badmouth schools for a hundred hours before they get it out of their
system. But I didn't have a hundred hours, and I had some important
information they needed. They knew that, or they wouldn't have called me.
I don't think about school much at all, in my life. I can go weeks.
If I thought hard about school every day, it would steal time and energy
directly from my relationship with my children.
Unless people turn their backs on the schools and walk away, they are still
living their lives in relationship to, in opposition to, in spite of school.
I don't want school to be my nemesis, my adversary, my "final boss," or
anything else in my life. It's no more powerful in my life than other
buildings in our neighborhood I find no cause to enter.
This is a gift unschoolers can help other unschoolers find.
We who have children in our homes have way more important business than
watchdogging or harrassing schools.
Sandra
posts an actual question or comment about their ps experiences, I will be
the first to chime in with empathy and support in their anger. I won't,
however, encourage that person to hold on to their anger. I will gently
suggest that it's okay to move on to the joy. >>
Good point.
I had two phone calls last week from parents who were angry with school and
taking their kids out. I let them tell the story once through, and then I
steered the conversation to unschooling possibilities, and local in-person
resources.
From experience I know that they need to tell that story and they will
probably badmouth schools for a hundred hours before they get it out of their
system. But I didn't have a hundred hours, and I had some important
information they needed. They knew that, or they wouldn't have called me.
I don't think about school much at all, in my life. I can go weeks.
If I thought hard about school every day, it would steal time and energy
directly from my relationship with my children.
Unless people turn their backs on the schools and walk away, they are still
living their lives in relationship to, in opposition to, in spite of school.
I don't want school to be my nemesis, my adversary, my "final boss," or
anything else in my life. It's no more powerful in my life than other
buildings in our neighborhood I find no cause to enter.
This is a gift unschoolers can help other unschoolers find.
We who have children in our homes have way more important business than
watchdogging or harrassing schools.
Sandra
Cmkerin
Thank You ladies for talking about this. I finally understand where you are
coming from. I'm not sure I totally agree but that's not me to say and the
intro. to this group does indicate that Ned's kind of posts would not be
appreciated. I admit I didn't see that intro. the same way when I didn't
get what you were all on about. Hope I make sense now.<g>
And so, I now see just how patient many of the old-timers have actually
been. ;) (that is a joke to hopefully? lighten things up just a bit)
Joy(xx)
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 3:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Practice what you preach!
<< If someone
posts an actual question or comment about their ps experiences, I will be
the first to chime in with empathy and support in their anger. I won't,
however, encourage that person to hold on to their anger. I will gently
suggest that it's okay to move on to the joy. >>
Good point.
I had two phone calls last week from parents who were angry with school and
taking their kids out. I let them tell the story once through, and then I
steered the conversation to unschooling possibilities, and local in-person
resources.
From experience I know that they need to tell that story and they will
probably badmouth schools for a hundred hours before they get it out of
their
system. But I didn't have a hundred hours, and I had some important
information they needed. They knew that, or they wouldn't have called me.
I don't think about school much at all, in my life. I can go weeks.
If I thought hard about school every day, it would steal time and energy
directly from my relationship with my children.
Unless people turn their backs on the schools and walk away, they are still
living their lives in relationship to, in opposition to, in spite of school.
I don't want school to be my nemesis, my adversary, my "final boss," or
anything else in my life. It's no more powerful in my life than other
buildings in our neighborhood I find no cause to enter.
This is a gift unschoolers can help other unschoolers find.
We who have children in our homes have way more important business than
watchdogging or harrassing schools.
Sandra
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
coming from. I'm not sure I totally agree but that's not me to say and the
intro. to this group does indicate that Ned's kind of posts would not be
appreciated. I admit I didn't see that intro. the same way when I didn't
get what you were all on about. Hope I make sense now.<g>
And so, I now see just how patient many of the old-timers have actually
been. ;) (that is a joke to hopefully? lighten things up just a bit)
Joy(xx)
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 3:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Practice what you preach!
<< If someone
posts an actual question or comment about their ps experiences, I will be
the first to chime in with empathy and support in their anger. I won't,
however, encourage that person to hold on to their anger. I will gently
suggest that it's okay to move on to the joy. >>
Good point.
I had two phone calls last week from parents who were angry with school and
taking their kids out. I let them tell the story once through, and then I
steered the conversation to unschooling possibilities, and local in-person
resources.
From experience I know that they need to tell that story and they will
probably badmouth schools for a hundred hours before they get it out of
their
system. But I didn't have a hundred hours, and I had some important
information they needed. They knew that, or they wouldn't have called me.
I don't think about school much at all, in my life. I can go weeks.
If I thought hard about school every day, it would steal time and energy
directly from my relationship with my children.
Unless people turn their backs on the schools and walk away, they are still
living their lives in relationship to, in opposition to, in spite of school.
I don't want school to be my nemesis, my adversary, my "final boss," or
anything else in my life. It's no more powerful in my life than other
buildings in our neighborhood I find no cause to enter.
This is a gift unschoolers can help other unschoolers find.
We who have children in our homes have way more important business than
watchdogging or harrassing schools.
Sandra
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Tia Leschke
>I'll echo this one. And I've also been able to let go of most of the anger
>FWIW I have had a child who had a horrendous ps experience. If someone
>posts an actual question or comment about their ps experiences, I will be
>the first to chime in with empathy and support in their anger. I won't,
>however, encourage that person to hold on to their anger. I will gently
>suggest that it's okay to move on to the joy. That's what unschoooling has
>done for me and my family. Allowed us to experience the joy of learning.
and move on. Now how long ago did Ned have a kid in public school? I'm
pretty sure his younger one never went, and the older ones are in their
30's, aren't they. Time to move on. Holding anger against a person (or
institution) hurts only the person holding the anger.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
LLLindsey
i have been on this list several months now.. and i am amazed that SO MUCH
time is spent arguing over what SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be discussed on this
list..
i just dont understand when the complaint is wasting of others time... so
much time is continued to be wasted on this argument..
on the lists that i own, if i feel strongly enuf that a post should not be
there, i go and delete it.. i do not discuss it on the list because that
would be a further waste of my time and energy and that of others.
It seems to me that the basis of this ongoing discussion lies in the desire
to avoid conflict.... even as it creates MORE conflict.. if it is a matter
of ... "we must be democratic about it," WHY? If those who run the list
find something offensive.. why dont they take it off.. or ... use the method
i find MOST effective.. IGNORE IT...
hell, some of my posts have been ignored.. and they are not even
offensive..hahahahah..
why GIVE energy to offensive ones and not to ones that are only mildly
annoying?
i just dont get it ..
NOT LOGICAL
L
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
O*
Linda L Lindsey ~~( )~~
http://www.llindsey.com ( * )
\ /
/
time is spent arguing over what SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be discussed on this
list..
i just dont understand when the complaint is wasting of others time... so
much time is continued to be wasted on this argument..
on the lists that i own, if i feel strongly enuf that a post should not be
there, i go and delete it.. i do not discuss it on the list because that
would be a further waste of my time and energy and that of others.
It seems to me that the basis of this ongoing discussion lies in the desire
to avoid conflict.... even as it creates MORE conflict.. if it is a matter
of ... "we must be democratic about it," WHY? If those who run the list
find something offensive.. why dont they take it off.. or ... use the method
i find MOST effective.. IGNORE IT...
hell, some of my posts have been ignored.. and they are not even
offensive..hahahahah..
why GIVE energy to offensive ones and not to ones that are only mildly
annoying?
i just dont get it ..
NOT LOGICAL
L
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
O*
Linda L Lindsey ~~( )~~
http://www.llindsey.com ( * )
\ /
/
----- Original Message -----
From: "zenmomma *" <zenmomma@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Practice what you preach!
>
> >>I think that a few of the long time regular posters are resentful that
> >>someone new to the list has so much to say of interest, and is stealing
> >>their thunder.>>
>
> I think this comment is a bit off track (to put it politely). I think it's
> more that long time posters are intimately familiar with the workings and
> purpose of this list *as stated by the list owner*. Long time posters are
> also aware of what will take a discussion, and possibly the list itelf, so
> far off track as to be unrecognizable.
>
> >>As long as people are not profane or extremely vulgar, I wish you'd
> get off their backs and stop trying to CONTROL everything they say.>>
>
> Do you really not see the difference between political grandstanding and
> meaningful unschooling discussion?
>
> >>I keep hearing unschoolers talk about trusting your children to run with
> >>their ideas, and then you turn around and try to squash every idea
posted
> >>that you disagree with. I don't see you practicing what you preach.>>
>
> I didn't see people disagreeing with the ideas, only the attempt to change
> this particular forum into a campaign for those ideas. (Well, maybe there
> was disagreement with the all or nothing statements.) This is an
> international list meant to share unschooling philosopy and ideas. IMHO
> school bashing and political rabble rousing are better suited to lists
aimed
> at those purposes.
>
> FWIW I have had a child who had a horrendous ps experience. If someone
> posts an actual question or comment about their ps experiences, I will be
> the first to chime in with empathy and support in their anger. I won't,
> however, encourage that person to hold on to their anger. I will gently
> suggest that it's okay to move on to the joy. That's what unschoooling has
> done for me and my family. Allowed us to experience the joy of learning.
>
> Life is good.
> ~Mary
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
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>
>
zenmomma *
>>i have been on this list several months now.. and i am amazed that SOWe unschoolers DO like to discuss and debate, don't we. ;-) Actually, I feel
>>MUCH time is spent arguing over what SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be discussed on
>>this list..>>
like we're finally at the end of of rather long arc of understanding on this
particular matter. Helping someone get to a point of understanding what
you're trying to say doesn't feel like a time waster to me. YMMV
Of course, if this post is annoying, feel free to ignore it. ;-)
Life is good.
~Mary, who has never been accused of being overly logical
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/24/02 2:57:15 PM, llindsey3@... writes:
<< on the lists that i own, if i feel strongly enuf that a post should not be
there, i go and delete it.. i do not discuss it on the list because that
would be a further waste of my time and energy and that of others.
seen them?
Little lists seem always easier to manage than big ones. And non-emotional
topics are easier to steer or ride than those that involve whole children's
lives.
if this were the only list in the world, stakes would be higher. It's not
the only list in the world. But it's the only list associated with
www.unschooling.com, and that's the only HEM unschooling site in the world.
I'm kinda invested in it and I really care about its usefulness and integrity.
I'm not a moderator or list owner, but I'm a regular and send people to that
forum daily or more (who knows how often, with business cards, and website
links and articles and public announcements). I'm on a state list too, but
it's rarely useful to bring any state news or reports here. That's where the
practical day to day field trip and political news is. People can use both,
but they don't need them both in the same place.
Sandra
<< on the lists that i own, if i feel strongly enuf that a post should not be
there, i go and delete it.. i do not discuss it on the list because that
would be a further waste of my time and energy and that of others.
>>You have lists with 850 people and you can delete posts before they've all
seen them?
Little lists seem always easier to manage than big ones. And non-emotional
topics are easier to steer or ride than those that involve whole children's
lives.
if this were the only list in the world, stakes would be higher. It's not
the only list in the world. But it's the only list associated with
www.unschooling.com, and that's the only HEM unschooling site in the world.
I'm kinda invested in it and I really care about its usefulness and integrity.
I'm not a moderator or list owner, but I'm a regular and send people to that
forum daily or more (who knows how often, with business cards, and website
links and articles and public announcements). I'm on a state list too, but
it's rarely useful to bring any state news or reports here. That's where the
practical day to day field trip and political news is. People can use both,
but they don't need them both in the same place.
Sandra
Tia Leschke
>i have been on this list several months now.. and i am amazed that SO MUCHHave you even read what the list owner has to say about this? If I
>time is spent arguing over what SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be discussed on this
>list..
>i just dont understand when the complaint is wasting of others time... so
>much time is continued to be wasted on this argument..
>on the lists that i own, if i feel strongly enuf that a post should not be
>there, i go and delete it.. i do not discuss it on the list because that
>would be a further waste of my time and energy and that of others.
disagreed with what the list owner wanted for a list, I'd leave and find
another or start my own. Ned doesn't seem willing to leave his rants
behind when he comes here, even though he has been asked by the list owner
to do so.
Tia
What you think of me is none of my business.
*********************************************************
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
LLLindsey
ooooo mary.. ! you are just soooo annoying..
hahahahaahahahah ---------------NOT..
L
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
O*
Linda L Lindsey ~~( )~~
http://www.llindsey.com ( * )
\ /
/
hahahahaahahahah ---------------NOT..
L
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
O*
Linda L Lindsey ~~( )~~
http://www.llindsey.com ( * )
\ /
/
----- Original Message -----
From: "zenmomma *" <zenmomma@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Practice what you preach!
>
> >>i have been on this list several months now.. and i am amazed that SO
> >>MUCH time is spent arguing over what SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be discussed
on
> >>this list..>>
>
> We unschoolers DO like to discuss and debate, don't we. ;-) Actually, I
feel
> like we're finally at the end of of rather long arc of understanding on
this
> particular matter. Helping someone get to a point of understanding what
> you're trying to say doesn't feel like a time waster to me. YMMV
>
> Of course, if this post is annoying, feel free to ignore it. ;-)
>
> Life is good.
> ~Mary, who has never been accused of being overly logical
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Fetteroll
I'm sorry I haven't been around today to discuss my post but others seem to
have explained things well -- better than I could have.
I've been having a real tough time articulating what the problem is with
Ned's posting and my wording has left the impression that there are subjects
that are off topic and discussions that are taboo. Too many people have felt
the need to apologize for being off topic. No one should need to apologize.
Unschooling is life and the discussion can and will often range far and
wide. It will occasionally include religion, parenting (more than just
occasionally!), politics, even local politics in the -- as Sheila put it --
ebb and flow of conversation. (I've actually found it helpful over the years
to be passingly familiar with the laws in other states to at least be able
to say "That doesn't sound quite right," to a worried homeschooler and send
them onto better information.)
But it doesn't serve the needs of the list members who signed on for the
specific purpose of this list if one person *repeatedly* diverts the ebb and
flow towards their own personal soapbox topic rather than responding to and
respecting the needs of the list members.
Though the primary purpose of the list is discussing unschooling, the list
is sort of a little bit of everything else too since unschooling touches on
everything. But if one person keeps *repeatedly* steering the wide ranging
conversations back to one of those little bits, then the list starts to not
be about unschooling and starts being about that expanding bit.
I don't know if that made anything clearer or muddier or just made some
people more irritated.
Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator
have explained things well -- better than I could have.
I've been having a real tough time articulating what the problem is with
Ned's posting and my wording has left the impression that there are subjects
that are off topic and discussions that are taboo. Too many people have felt
the need to apologize for being off topic. No one should need to apologize.
Unschooling is life and the discussion can and will often range far and
wide. It will occasionally include religion, parenting (more than just
occasionally!), politics, even local politics in the -- as Sheila put it --
ebb and flow of conversation. (I've actually found it helpful over the years
to be passingly familiar with the laws in other states to at least be able
to say "That doesn't sound quite right," to a worried homeschooler and send
them onto better information.)
But it doesn't serve the needs of the list members who signed on for the
specific purpose of this list if one person *repeatedly* diverts the ebb and
flow towards their own personal soapbox topic rather than responding to and
respecting the needs of the list members.
Though the primary purpose of the list is discussing unschooling, the list
is sort of a little bit of everything else too since unschooling touches on
everything. But if one person keeps *repeatedly* steering the wide ranging
conversations back to one of those little bits, then the list starts to not
be about unschooling and starts being about that expanding bit.
I don't know if that made anything clearer or muddier or just made some
people more irritated.
Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/24/02 6:58:52 PM, leschke@... writes:
<< Holding anger against a person (or
institution) hurts only the person holding the anger. >>
And sometimes those it's poured out on.
Sandra
<< Holding anger against a person (or
institution) hurts only the person holding the anger. >>
And sometimes those it's poured out on.
Sandra