Re: 2253 - the hell of it
Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
on 8/16/02 11:21 AM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
Heather has answers:
I don't think anybody here believes that leaving children completely to
their own devices is going to teach them how to live well or happily. Your
kids seeem to be following your example (as you describe your own, shall we
say, "creative" routine and habits) a bit too much for their own good.
Yelling can help, if it is your nature to let off steam once in a while. I
recall a story told by the wife of an English diplomat living in Brazil in a
house with servants who spoke only Portugese. Every once in a while, after
noticing several things out of place or missing (stolen by the servants) she
simply screamed her feelings, in English, of course,
"Where's my whatchamacallit? etc, etc."
The servants, feeling guilty and believing she was threatening them with
terrible punishments for their misdeeds, returned everything to its proper
place by the next morning, and life carried on.
One of my former wives like to yell. She often became exasperated by things
-- usually the small twins and their incessant basic needs and demands --
and would simply yell her frustrations and tell them she was leaving them
alone until "later." Sometimes it was quite a long time. (a mother needs a
break!) It helped her a lot, and the kids got the message to get it together
on their own. They know we're in charge, but sometimes we need to remind
them. They bounce right back, better.
Heather, it's your house. The kids share it. There need to be rules --
spoken or unspoken. If you don't follow them, the kids won't. Your are not
unschooling problem, they're parenting problems, self-control problem. Kids
like to push the limits. That's OK, but they need to know that you are
conscious, too. Live in surroundings of order, cleanliness, peace -- all
that good stuff -- every day, if possible. That's a foundation for an
orderly, clean, peaceful, productive life.
I'm feeling a little preachy just now -- will someone throw some water on
me, please.
Bottom line: From what you describe, I think your kids are asking you for a
little more direction and for more of your time. They are having problems
raising themselves. Trust, but watch carefully and participate intimately.
Yell your own feelings about a situation, not to blame them for creating it.
"THIS IS A MESS !" instead of, "You kids are bad, and should be put in
horrible unloving homes where wretched people will beat you for all your
misbehavior and nastyness." Notice I didn't even get into them being born
in sin without any goodness, or any of that nonsense... (:-O)
You are their example in life. That's the hell of it. :)
Ned Vare
[email protected] wrote:
Heather has answers:
> I am letting it happen - I am trying to trust - - but in the meantime it canNed has questions:
> drive me nuts! Any ideas...
I don't think anybody here believes that leaving children completely to
their own devices is going to teach them how to live well or happily. Your
kids seeem to be following your example (as you describe your own, shall we
say, "creative" routine and habits) a bit too much for their own good.
Yelling can help, if it is your nature to let off steam once in a while. I
recall a story told by the wife of an English diplomat living in Brazil in a
house with servants who spoke only Portugese. Every once in a while, after
noticing several things out of place or missing (stolen by the servants) she
simply screamed her feelings, in English, of course,
"Where's my whatchamacallit? etc, etc."
The servants, feeling guilty and believing she was threatening them with
terrible punishments for their misdeeds, returned everything to its proper
place by the next morning, and life carried on.
One of my former wives like to yell. She often became exasperated by things
-- usually the small twins and their incessant basic needs and demands --
and would simply yell her frustrations and tell them she was leaving them
alone until "later." Sometimes it was quite a long time. (a mother needs a
break!) It helped her a lot, and the kids got the message to get it together
on their own. They know we're in charge, but sometimes we need to remind
them. They bounce right back, better.
Heather, it's your house. The kids share it. There need to be rules --
spoken or unspoken. If you don't follow them, the kids won't. Your are not
unschooling problem, they're parenting problems, self-control problem. Kids
like to push the limits. That's OK, but they need to know that you are
conscious, too. Live in surroundings of order, cleanliness, peace -- all
that good stuff -- every day, if possible. That's a foundation for an
orderly, clean, peaceful, productive life.
I'm feeling a little preachy just now -- will someone throw some water on
me, please.
Bottom line: From what you describe, I think your kids are asking you for a
little more direction and for more of your time. They are having problems
raising themselves. Trust, but watch carefully and participate intimately.
Yell your own feelings about a situation, not to blame them for creating it.
"THIS IS A MESS !" instead of, "You kids are bad, and should be put in
horrible unloving homes where wretched people will beat you for all your
misbehavior and nastyness." Notice I didn't even get into them being born
in sin without any goodness, or any of that nonsense... (:-O)
You are their example in life. That's the hell of it. :)
Ned Vare
Heather Woodward
Thanks Ned - and the others who answered here...
There have been many suggestions that have been made that I had been toying with - getting up and getting myself together BEFORE they get up... as well as - trying to create order in my own space - and leading by example instead of trying to make them behave in a way that I am not doing myself... It's amazing that it sometimes takes an outside opinion to make you see what you have already suspected.
I think so often I won't just say no to things because I am trying so hard not to be limiting. My mother never let me cook - because it was her kitchen. I always let my daughter cook - with supervision of course ;) but she is a great baker and I know she has learned fractions, measuring etc. by cooking. She also isn't afraid to just try things - if a recipe is 5 pages long, she will sit there and follow it step by step - and figure it out. I would tend to look at it and say - another day! So I am working towards a certain atmosphere here - but it is absolutley true that I can't expect from them what I am not modelling myself... It will be a bit of a learning experience here. I think sometimes it's a pyshcological battle of trying NOT to be "scheduled" - but I suppose unscheduled doesn't have to mean messy!
I have a friend whose childern had a basket of beanie babies in their room. ( at the time when they wer worth something ;) She always let her girls play with them. Now we had a bunch, but whenever my kids played with them - the tags got all ripped off - so I put them all away - Later in watching my friend I realized that she often sat down and played beanie babies with them. So they didn't learn the habits of being destructive when they played. Not that having the tags ripped off is incredibly destructive... I have never understood the mentality of having 100 beanie babies which we don't touch beause they are collectible - I have almost considered selling them all on ebay so I don't have to worry about it :)
Ayway, thanks for the thoughts...
Heather
Heather A. Woodward
Longaberger Independant Sales Consultant
http://www.longaberger.com/heatherwoodward
"Handcrafted, American-made products that both are beautiful and functional!"
There have been many suggestions that have been made that I had been toying with - getting up and getting myself together BEFORE they get up... as well as - trying to create order in my own space - and leading by example instead of trying to make them behave in a way that I am not doing myself... It's amazing that it sometimes takes an outside opinion to make you see what you have already suspected.
I think so often I won't just say no to things because I am trying so hard not to be limiting. My mother never let me cook - because it was her kitchen. I always let my daughter cook - with supervision of course ;) but she is a great baker and I know she has learned fractions, measuring etc. by cooking. She also isn't afraid to just try things - if a recipe is 5 pages long, she will sit there and follow it step by step - and figure it out. I would tend to look at it and say - another day! So I am working towards a certain atmosphere here - but it is absolutley true that I can't expect from them what I am not modelling myself... It will be a bit of a learning experience here. I think sometimes it's a pyshcological battle of trying NOT to be "scheduled" - but I suppose unscheduled doesn't have to mean messy!
I have a friend whose childern had a basket of beanie babies in their room. ( at the time when they wer worth something ;) She always let her girls play with them. Now we had a bunch, but whenever my kids played with them - the tags got all ripped off - so I put them all away - Later in watching my friend I realized that she often sat down and played beanie babies with them. So they didn't learn the habits of being destructive when they played. Not that having the tags ripped off is incredibly destructive... I have never understood the mentality of having 100 beanie babies which we don't touch beause they are collectible - I have almost considered selling them all on ebay so I don't have to worry about it :)
Ayway, thanks for the thoughts...
Heather
Heather A. Woodward
Longaberger Independant Sales Consultant
http://www.longaberger.com/heatherwoodward
"Handcrafted, American-made products that both are beautiful and functional!"
----- Original Message -----
From: Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 1:41 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: 2253 - the hell of it
on 8/16/02 11:21 AM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
Heather has answers:
> I am letting it happen - I am trying to trust - - but in the meantime it can
> drive me nuts! Any ideas...
Ned has questions:
I don't think anybody here believes that leaving children completely to
their own devices is going to teach them how to live well or happily. Your
kids seeem to be following your example (as you describe your own, shall we
say, "creative" routine and habits) a bit too much for their own good.
Yelling can help, if it is your nature to let off steam once in a while. I
recall a story told by the wife of an English diplomat living in Brazil in a
house with servants who spoke only Portugese. Every once in a while, after
noticing several things out of place or missing (stolen by the servants) she
simply screamed her feelings, in English, of course,
"Where's my whatchamacallit? etc, etc."
The servants, feeling guilty and believing she was threatening them with
terrible punishments for their misdeeds, returned everything to its proper
place by the next morning, and life carried on.
One of my former wives like to yell. She often became exasperated by things
-- usually the small twins and their incessant basic needs and demands --
and would simply yell her frustrations and tell them she was leaving them
alone until "later." Sometimes it was quite a long time. (a mother needs a
break!) It helped her a lot, and the kids got the message to get it together
on their own. They know we're in charge, but sometimes we need to remind
them. They bounce right back, better.
Heather, it's your house. The kids share it. There need to be rules --
spoken or unspoken. If you don't follow them, the kids won't. Your are not
unschooling problem, they're parenting problems, self-control problem. Kids
like to push the limits. That's OK, but they need to know that you are
conscious, too. Live in surroundings of order, cleanliness, peace -- all
that good stuff -- every day, if possible. That's a foundation for an
orderly, clean, peaceful, productive life.
I'm feeling a little preachy just now -- will someone throw some water on
me, please.
Bottom line: From what you describe, I think your kids are asking you for a
little more direction and for more of your time. They are having problems
raising themselves. Trust, but watch carefully and participate intimately.
Yell your own feelings about a situation, not to blame them for creating it.
"THIS IS A MESS !" instead of, "You kids are bad, and should be put in
horrible unloving homes where wretched people will beat you for all your
misbehavior and nastyness." Notice I didn't even get into them being born
in sin without any goodness, or any of that nonsense... (:-O)
You are their example in life. That's the hell of it. :)
Ned Vare
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Tia Leschke
>Consider yourself well-soaked. <g>
>I'm feeling a little preachy just now -- will someone throw some water on
>me, please.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
kayb85
We've always cut the tags off of them. I figured I'm buying them for
their play value, not their collectable value. My daughter found a
new Beanie Baby magazine that she likes. She's learned how to use
ebay to look for beanie babies, and has practiced addition and money
skills in figuring which auctions she can afford to bid on.
Unschooling is great!
Sheila
always let her girls play with them. Now we had a bunch, but whenever
my kids played with them - the tags got all ripped off - so I put
them all away - Later in watching my friend I realized that she
often sat down and played beanie babies with them. So they didn't
learn the habits of being destructive when they played. Not that
having the tags ripped off is incredibly destructive... I have never
understood the mentality of having 100 beanie babies which we don't
touch beause they are collectible - I have almost considered selling
them all on ebay so I don't have to worry about it :)
their play value, not their collectable value. My daughter found a
new Beanie Baby magazine that she likes. She's learned how to use
ebay to look for beanie babies, and has practiced addition and money
skills in figuring which auctions she can afford to bid on.
Unschooling is great!
Sheila
> I have a friend whose childern had a basket of beanie babies intheir room. ( at the time when they wer worth something ;) She
always let her girls play with them. Now we had a bunch, but whenever
my kids played with them - the tags got all ripped off - so I put
them all away - Later in watching my friend I realized that she
often sat down and played beanie babies with them. So they didn't
learn the habits of being destructive when they played. Not that
having the tags ripped off is incredibly destructive... I have never
understood the mentality of having 100 beanie babies which we don't
touch beause they are collectible - I have almost considered selling
them all on ebay so I don't have to worry about it :)