Re:2235 - Oxymoron, or not?
Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
on 8/12/02 6:50 PM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
care for them, there is a need for such parenting discussions, without using
or even thinking about the word "school" in any form.
Diane answered:
connection to this list (even though we keep hearing that anything goes, and
yet I've been criticized for being off topic) so I'm still trying to
discover what the real topic is, if any.
For me, Unschooling is not an activity, but a decision not to school our
children -- not to do to them what schools do to them. Now I'll admit that
that is either an incredibly broad topic that includes all forms of
childcare (in which case I understand why there are mostly women on board)
or it is a narrower topic, the one that concentrates on how parents need to
unlearn their belief in the necessity for schooling. ( I was once one of
those people)
Luz and I, long ago, went to support group meetings for homeschooling. At
the meetings the discussion was mostly about which curriculum they used.
Nothing wrong with that, but it didn't help us unschoolers, and most of the
members couldn't imagine taking John Holt at his word, and not using school
books and schedules and a notice of intent, and the rest. Luz and I wanted
the least possible connection to schools and/or formal schooling.
So, we finally stopped going to the meetings, and while the people remained
our friends, they perceived us as weird for unschooling, even though they
were pariahs in their neighborhoods for not sending their kids to the zombie
jamboree down at the corner.
And Diane now tells us that there's a list that takes the irony a step
further by calling itself pre-unschooling (!) and then entertains talk about
pre-schooling -- the exact opposite -- with the same ideas.
Some of you see my quandary, I'm sure. I've read in recent years that our
language has been stolen, highjacked, by our "soft" culture, to the extent
that many words now mean the opposite of what they seem.
I can see how "homeschooling" now means schooling at home. But now, even
Unschooling is perceived by many as being the same thing. Not even to
consider the meaning of "de-schooling."
Are we to simply assume that they all mean the same thing to most people,
even to those who are doing them?
Tell me, does Unschooling now mean "doing school" or does it still mean, as
I use it, finding ways to live and raise children without the methods of
schools? For the integrity of the list, it might help to make the
distinction, so that people who stumble in here with the idea that the name
actually means unschooling will not be confused, as I have been.
There is the other reason which is that, as Diane describes the
pre-unschooling list, lots of people might get the idea that the Holt
variety of unschooling really does not exist, so they'd better get with some
sort of schooling program after all.
Ned Vare
Just wondering, not trying to offend anyone
[email protected] wrote:
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:24:57 -0400I wrote:
> From: Bill and Diane <cen46624@...>
> Subject: Re: Re:2231 - Diapers, 101
>> Looks like we need a PRE - UNSCHOOLING listmeaning that for people with babies and toddlers who are looking for ways to
care for them, there is a need for such parenting discussions, without using
or even thinking about the word "school" in any form.
Diane answered:
> There is a pre-unschooling list on Yahoo, but it's all full ofThanks Diane. Exactly my point. Nancy's problems seemed to have little
> curricula, plans and schedules. I'm planning to unsub, but haven't
> gotten around to it.
>
> :-) Diane
connection to this list (even though we keep hearing that anything goes, and
yet I've been criticized for being off topic) so I'm still trying to
discover what the real topic is, if any.
For me, Unschooling is not an activity, but a decision not to school our
children -- not to do to them what schools do to them. Now I'll admit that
that is either an incredibly broad topic that includes all forms of
childcare (in which case I understand why there are mostly women on board)
or it is a narrower topic, the one that concentrates on how parents need to
unlearn their belief in the necessity for schooling. ( I was once one of
those people)
Luz and I, long ago, went to support group meetings for homeschooling. At
the meetings the discussion was mostly about which curriculum they used.
Nothing wrong with that, but it didn't help us unschoolers, and most of the
members couldn't imagine taking John Holt at his word, and not using school
books and schedules and a notice of intent, and the rest. Luz and I wanted
the least possible connection to schools and/or formal schooling.
So, we finally stopped going to the meetings, and while the people remained
our friends, they perceived us as weird for unschooling, even though they
were pariahs in their neighborhoods for not sending their kids to the zombie
jamboree down at the corner.
And Diane now tells us that there's a list that takes the irony a step
further by calling itself pre-unschooling (!) and then entertains talk about
pre-schooling -- the exact opposite -- with the same ideas.
Some of you see my quandary, I'm sure. I've read in recent years that our
language has been stolen, highjacked, by our "soft" culture, to the extent
that many words now mean the opposite of what they seem.
I can see how "homeschooling" now means schooling at home. But now, even
Unschooling is perceived by many as being the same thing. Not even to
consider the meaning of "de-schooling."
Are we to simply assume that they all mean the same thing to most people,
even to those who are doing them?
Tell me, does Unschooling now mean "doing school" or does it still mean, as
I use it, finding ways to live and raise children without the methods of
schools? For the integrity of the list, it might help to make the
distinction, so that people who stumble in here with the idea that the name
actually means unschooling will not be confused, as I have been.
There is the other reason which is that, as Diane describes the
pre-unschooling list, lots of people might get the idea that the Holt
variety of unschooling really does not exist, so they'd better get with some
sort of schooling program after all.
Ned Vare
Just wondering, not trying to offend anyone
zenmomma *
>>Tell me, does Unschooling now mean "doing school" or does it still mean,I believe there is a definition of unschooling, as it pertains to this list,
>>as I use it, finding ways to live and raise children without the methods
>>of schools? For the integrity of the list, it might help to make the
>>distinction, so that people who stumble in here with the idea that the
>>name actually means unschooling will not be confused, as I have been.>>
contained on the intro to the list. I thought it was going out when new
members signed on, so you should have received it then. If not, it's also
available for viewing at the Yahoo site.
This has been discussed here many, many times. I don't think you'll find
that any regular posters are suggesting school-at-home.
Life is good.
~Mary
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Fetteroll
on 8/13/02 4:12 PM, Luz Shosie and Ned Vare at nedvare@... wrote:
on fun educational activities.
In some places unschooling means free time after lessons. I don't know if
they mean do-anything-you-want free, or
learn-anything-as-long-as-it-looks-like-learning free. Probably can be
either depending who you ask.
Here's it gets discussed as John Holt discussed it.
joins. I understand that you were confused about it not being the politics
of unschooling but what about the unschooling as discussed here confused
you?
> Tell me, does Unschooling now mean "doing school" or does it still mean, asIn some places unschooling means what I would describe as eclectic: focusing
> I use it, finding ways to live and raise children without the methods of
> schools?
on fun educational activities.
In some places unschooling means free time after lessons. I don't know if
they mean do-anything-you-want free, or
learn-anything-as-long-as-it-looks-like-learning free. Probably can be
either depending who you ask.
Here's it gets discussed as John Holt discussed it.
> For the integrity of the list, it might help to make theHere's what's on the front screen at Yahoo and gets sent out to everyone who
> distinction, so that people who stumble in here with the idea that the name
> actually means unschooling will not be confused, as I have been.
joins. I understand that you were confused about it not being the politics
of unschooling but what about the unschooling as discussed here confused
you?
> Unschooling is the confidence to trust that young people will learn what theyJoyce
> need from living their lives in freedom and joy. An unschooling parent is a
> facilitator and cheerleader who embraces life and learning with curiosity and
> enthusiasm. An unschooled child is free to choose the what, when, where and
> how of their learning -- from mud puddles to Shakespeare to Spongebob
> Squarepants! If this sounds like it's for you or you'd like to find out more
> about how video games and life in general are filled with learning, come join
> us!
>
> As discussed on this list and at the Unschooling.com website, unschooling is
> *not* defined as the free learning kids do outside of parent-directed
> learning, nor is it done on a part-time basis. Everyone with an interest in
> unschooling is welcome to join this discussion, but we ask that you keep in
> mind the purpose of this list, which is to discuss unschooling in ways
> designed to help each other become unschoolers or become better at
> unschooling. We advise reading for a week or two before posting to get a
> "feel" for the list and its members, since many listmembers love a lively
> debate and questioning beliefs to their foundations. If you have questions
> about this list please feel free to contact list moderator Joyce Fetteroll
> (fetteroll@...)
>
>
> This list and the Unschooling.com site were created and are still supported by
> Home Education Magazine: (http://www.home-ed-magazine.com); Helen Hegener
> (HEM-Editor@...) is the list owner.