Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Hell
Heather Woodward
Sandra Wrote:
Hell is a really stupid idea. I wouldn't worship anyone who would come up
with an eternal fiery pit. But we could talk about where the ideas about
hell were borrowed (to go with that Mardi Gras history), and how many
cultures believe that and have similar names for it.
Are you aware that the word Hell as translated is from the original word "gehenna" Here's the definition:
Gehenna
(originally Ge bene Hinnom; i.e., "the valley of the sons of Hinnom"), a deep, narrow glen to the south of Jerusalem, where the idolatrous Jews offered their children in sacrifice to Molech #2Ch 28:3 33:6 #Jer 7:31 19:2-6 This valley afterwards became the common receptacle for all the refuse of the city. Here the dead bodies of animals and of criminals, and all kinds of filth, were cast and consumed by fire kept always burning.
The Hebrew word for hell actually means "grave or pit".
Does anyone else here see the connection with the Modern idea of hell - where you go and burn after death - if you are bad... and Dante's Inferno??
Heather
Hell is a really stupid idea. I wouldn't worship anyone who would come up
with an eternal fiery pit. But we could talk about where the ideas about
hell were borrowed (to go with that Mardi Gras history), and how many
cultures believe that and have similar names for it.
Are you aware that the word Hell as translated is from the original word "gehenna" Here's the definition:
Gehenna
(originally Ge bene Hinnom; i.e., "the valley of the sons of Hinnom"), a deep, narrow glen to the south of Jerusalem, where the idolatrous Jews offered their children in sacrifice to Molech #2Ch 28:3 33:6 #Jer 7:31 19:2-6 This valley afterwards became the common receptacle for all the refuse of the city. Here the dead bodies of animals and of criminals, and all kinds of filth, were cast and consumed by fire kept always burning.
The Hebrew word for hell actually means "grave or pit".
Does anyone else here see the connection with the Modern idea of hell - where you go and burn after death - if you are bad... and Dante's Inferno??
Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:29 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Heaven, hell & Hitler
<< have you ever wondered if hitler may have
asked for forgiveness,been forgiven and will be w/ all of you in heaven?i
have.by the way-hitler was austrian >>
'm'kay
I'm not going to Heaven if you think there's any chance Hitler's there.
It's not his massive prejudices and the genocide that I see as his primary
sin. It's the hypocrisy, if the biographers are telling the truth that his
own best buddies were all seriously "flawed" biologically. And unless he
dyed his hair, he wouldn't be admitted into Aryan Nation or any of todays
"ooh let's be like Hitler" boys' clubs.
If Hitler can gain eternal paradise by saying "oooh, sorry God" at the last
minute, then my neighbor Helen Carter, the sweetest woman I have ever met, is
burning in hell for that same doctrine. Because she was Catholic and thought
that all Protestants should just be Catholic too because it was the right way
to worship Jesus.
Hell is a really stupid idea. I wouldn't worship anyone who would come up
with an eternal fiery pit. But we could talk about where the ideas about
hell were borrowed (to go with that Mardi Gras history), and how many
cultures believe that and have similar names for it.
I wouldn't even wish an eternal fiery pit on Hitler.
Sandra
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The Hebrew word for hell actually means "grave or pit".
Judaism has no real concept of hell, it a Christian thing
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
Judaism has no real concept of hell, it a Christian thing
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/9/02 6:13:18 AM, ElissaJC@... writes:
<< Judaism has no real concept of hell, it a Christian thing >>
And it's from Revelation, the most questionable of all New Testament books.
Except for holding the threat and promise of Jesus' return, it's not much
use. So they kept it as carrot and stick, I think.
Sandra
<< Judaism has no real concept of hell, it a Christian thing >>
And it's from Revelation, the most questionable of all New Testament books.
Except for holding the threat and promise of Jesus' return, it's not much
use. So they kept it as carrot and stick, I think.
Sandra
dabejorysmom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., <ElissaJC@c...> wrote:
church I belong to does not have the same concept of Hell as most
others. We don't believe in a literal firey pit. We do believe that
all of the evil people will spend eternity with each other though,
and never be around good people. I think that would be all the
punishment neccessary. And by evil people, we don't mean people who
believe differently than us, we mean really evil people like Hitler,
child molestors, murders, etc. You know, people who, by just about
any standard, would be considered evil.
-Suzanna
> Judaism has no real concept of hell, it a Christian thingThat depends on which Christian church you are talking about. The
> ~Elissa Cleaveland
church I belong to does not have the same concept of Hell as most
others. We don't believe in a literal firey pit. We do believe that
all of the evil people will spend eternity with each other though,
and never be around good people. I think that would be all the
punishment neccessary. And by evil people, we don't mean people who
believe differently than us, we mean really evil people like Hitler,
child molestors, murders, etc. You know, people who, by just about
any standard, would be considered evil.
-Suzanna
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/9/2002 6:47:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
of, say, Mark chapter 9, where Jesus says: "It is better for you to enter
into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell [Gehenna], into
the fire that shall never be quenched -- *where their worm does not die and
the fire is not quenched."?* [I believe this is a verse taken from Isaiah.]
Somewhere else Jesus tells his listeners to not fear man -- who can only kill
the body, but to fear God, who has the power to cast body and soul into hell.
These are some tough words, and have always given me quite a lot to think
about when I hear folks talk about Jesus as being along the line of a Gandhi
or someone like that. I'm afraid the record doesn't bare this view out, that
is if we can believe the record.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> And it's [hell] from Revelation, the most questionable of all New TestamentJesus spoke of Hell more than any figure in the Bible. What are we to make
> books
of, say, Mark chapter 9, where Jesus says: "It is better for you to enter
into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell [Gehenna], into
the fire that shall never be quenched -- *where their worm does not die and
the fire is not quenched."?* [I believe this is a verse taken from Isaiah.]
Somewhere else Jesus tells his listeners to not fear man -- who can only kill
the body, but to fear God, who has the power to cast body and soul into hell.
These are some tough words, and have always given me quite a lot to think
about when I hear folks talk about Jesus as being along the line of a Gandhi
or someone like that. I'm afraid the record doesn't bare this view out, that
is if we can believe the record.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Bob, you're right about the references by Jesus.
The Greeks had the idea of Hades. We've been shown what the Hebrews had in
that term-slot. The Teutonic/German languages (through the Norse, Angles and
Saxons to us) had "hell," which was dark and hot and not the desired
destination.
Where would people get the idea that under the earth there's fire that
doesn't die? Rudimentary geology. Volcanic mediterranean experience!
Revelation did NOT originate in Israel (nor any region that might have been
in the past or future Israeli camping spots). Hades was the concept/term
used in the New Testament Greek, I think. In Latin what do they use? I
really don't know what the Latin term was, but I assume that's what would
have gone into the Spanish, French and Italian translations.
Sandra
The Greeks had the idea of Hades. We've been shown what the Hebrews had in
that term-slot. The Teutonic/German languages (through the Norse, Angles and
Saxons to us) had "hell," which was dark and hot and not the desired
destination.
Where would people get the idea that under the earth there's fire that
doesn't die? Rudimentary geology. Volcanic mediterranean experience!
Revelation did NOT originate in Israel (nor any region that might have been
in the past or future Israeli camping spots). Hades was the concept/term
used in the New Testament Greek, I think. In Latin what do they use? I
really don't know what the Latin term was, but I assume that's what would
have gone into the Spanish, French and Italian translations.
Sandra
zenmomma *
>>(originally Ge bene Hinnom; i.e., "the valley of the sons of Hinnom"), aThis is really interesting. I had never heard this before. Where did you get
>>deep, narrow glen to the south of Jerusalem, where the idolatrous Jews
>>offered their children in sacrifice to Molech #2Ch 28:3 33:6 #Jer 7:31
>>19:2-6 This valley afterwards became the common receptacle for all the
>>refuse of the city. Here the dead bodies of animals and of criminals, and
>>all kinds of filth, were cast and consumed by fire kept always burning.>>
the definition from?
Life is good.
~Mary
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yeah, my understanding was that the christians invented hell to have something to threaten the heathens with .. (heathen.. actually just means living out on heath.. like the pagans.. living in the country.. not of the TOWN religion.. so baaaaad)
anyway.. it was a concept which seems to have fullfilled it's purpose and apparently continues to do so
L
anyway.. it was a concept which seems to have fullfilled it's purpose and apparently continues to do so
L
----- Original Message -----
From: ElissaJC@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Hell
The Hebrew word for hell actually means "grave or pit".
Judaism has no real concept of hell, it a Christian thing
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the Moderator, Joyce Fetteroll, at fetteroll@...
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leslie Avery
I am a Christian and the sad thing is the opinion most
people have of Christians is because of what you see
portrayed on the television, by both people who preach
and by those who are anti-Christians. Christianity is
a belief not a religion it is the religious who have
made hell a place where heathens go. It is the
misinterpretations people have of the Bible because of
those religious teachings that cause opinions of
others that hell is a place used as a punishment or a
tool for control. It is not a belief that is embraced
by all Christians or even by God.
Leslie
--- llindsey3@... wrote:
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people have of Christians is because of what you see
portrayed on the television, by both people who preach
and by those who are anti-Christians. Christianity is
a belief not a religion it is the religious who have
made hell a place where heathens go. It is the
misinterpretations people have of the Bible because of
those religious teachings that cause opinions of
others that hell is a place used as a punishment or a
tool for control. It is not a belief that is embraced
by all Christians or even by God.
Leslie
--- llindsey3@... wrote:
> yeah, my understanding was that the christians__________________________________________________
> invented hell to have something to threaten the
> heathens with .. (heathen.. actually just means
> living out on heath.. like the pagans.. living in
> the country.. not of the TOWN religion.. so baaaaad)
> anyway.. it was a concept which seems to have
> fullfilled it's purpose and apparently continues to
> do so
> L
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ElissaJC@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 7:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Hell
>
>
> The Hebrew word for hell actually means "grave or
> pit".
>
>
>
> Judaism has no real concept of hell, it a
> Christian thing
> ~Elissa Cleaveland
> "It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern
> methods of instruction
> have
> not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of
> inquiry." A. Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with
> this list, please email the Moderator, Joyce
> Fetteroll, at fetteroll@...
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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[email protected]
and then there are a lot of religions.. eastern ones mostly.. who accept the concept of there is no good or evil.. everything just IS.. it is the way it is supposed to be.. we are here (in the material world)(or on this level of reality)(or in this dimension) to learn lessons and all that..
LLL
LLL
----- Original Message -----
From: dabejorysmom
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:04 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Hell
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., <ElissaJC@c...> wrote:
> Judaism has no real concept of hell, it a Christian thing
> ~Elissa Cleaveland
That depends on which Christian church you are talking about. The
church I belong to does not have the same concept of Hell as most
others. We don't believe in a literal firey pit. We do believe that
all of the evil people will spend eternity with each other though,
and never be around good people. I think that would be all the
punishment neccessary. And by evil people, we don't mean people who
believe differently than us, we mean really evil people like Hitler,
child molestors, murders, etc. You know, people who, by just about
any standard, would be considered evil.
-Suzanna
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the Moderator, Joyce Fetteroll, at fetteroll@...
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
yes, but did jesus actually say it that way? did he speak english? so how do we know he was speaking of the "hell" we think of? or were you there, bob?
L
L
----- Original Message -----
From: rsale515@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Hell
In a message dated 8/9/2002 6:47:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> And it's [hell] from Revelation, the most questionable of all New Testament
> books
Jesus spoke of Hell more than any figure in the Bible. What are we to make
of, say, Mark chapter 9, where Jesus says: "It is better for you to enter
into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell [Gehenna], into
the fire that shall never be quenched -- *where their worm does not die and
the fire is not quenched."?* [I believe this is a verse taken from Isaiah.]
Somewhere else Jesus tells his listeners to not fear man -- who can only kill
the body, but to fear God, who has the power to cast body and soul into hell.
These are some tough words, and have always given me quite a lot to think
about when I hear folks talk about Jesus as being along the line of a Gandhi
or someone like that. I'm afraid the record doesn't bare this view out, that
is if we can believe the record.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the Moderator, Joyce Fetteroll, at fetteroll@...
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma *
>>and then there are a lot of religions.. eastern ones mostly.. who acceptThis sounds very Taoist. That's a philosophy really, rather than a religion.
>>the concept of there is no good or evil.. everything just IS..>>
it is the way it is supposed to be.. we are here (in the material world)(or
on this level of reality)(or in this dimension) to learn lessons and all
that..
>_________________________________________________________________
>LLL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dabejorysmom
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:04 AM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Hell
>
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., <ElissaJC@c...> wrote:
> > Judaism has no real concept of hell, it a Christian thing
> > ~Elissa Cleaveland
>
> That depends on which Christian church you are talking about. The
> church I belong to does not have the same concept of Hell as most
> others. We don't believe in a literal firey pit. We do believe that
> all of the evil people will spend eternity with each other though,
> and never be around good people. I think that would be all the
> punishment neccessary. And by evil people, we don't mean people who
> believe differently than us, we mean really evil people like Hitler,
> child molestors, murders, etc. You know, people who, by just about
> any standard, would be considered evil.
>
> -Suzanna
>
>
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
>the Moderator, Joyce Fetteroll, at fetteroll@...
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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zenmomma *
Oops! Last one went out before I finished. :-/ I was intending to add my
favorite taoist saying:
Shit Happens.
Life is good.
~Mary
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favorite taoist saying:
Shit Happens.
Life is good.
~Mary
>>and then there are a lot of religions.. eastern ones mostly.. who acceptThis sounds very Taoist. That's a philosophy really, rather than a religion.
>>the concept of there is no good or evil.. everything just IS..>>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Heather Woodward
It is the
misinterpretations people have of the Bible because of
those religious teachings that cause opinions of
others that hell is a place used as a punishment or a
tool for control. It is not a belief that is embraced
by all Christians or even by God.
I second that - I feel quite alone because although I am a Christian in the sense that I believe in Christ - my Christianity is not the same as what is put forth by the masses. I would probably be considered a heathen~ :)
Heather
misinterpretations people have of the Bible because of
those religious teachings that cause opinions of
others that hell is a place used as a punishment or a
tool for control. It is not a belief that is embraced
by all Christians or even by God.
I second that - I feel quite alone because although I am a Christian in the sense that I believe in Christ - my Christianity is not the same as what is put forth by the masses. I would probably be considered a heathen~ :)
Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie Avery
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Hell
I am a Christian and the sad thing is the opinion most
people have of Christians is because of what you see
portrayed on the television, by both people who preach
and by those who are anti-Christians. Christianity is
a belief not a religion it is the religious who have
made hell a place where heathens go. It is the
misinterpretations people have of the Bible because of
those religious teachings that cause opinions of
others that hell is a place used as a punishment or a
tool for control. It is not a belief that is embraced
by all Christians or even by God.
Leslie
--- llindsey3@... wrote:
> yeah, my understanding was that the christians
> invented hell to have something to threaten the
> heathens with .. (heathen.. actually just means
> living out on heath.. like the pagans.. living in
> the country.. not of the TOWN religion.. so baaaaad)
> anyway.. it was a concept which seems to have
> fullfilled it's purpose and apparently continues to
> do so
> L
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ElissaJC@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 7:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Hell
>
>
> The Hebrew word for hell actually means "grave or
> pit".
>
>
>
> Judaism has no real concept of hell, it a
> Christian thing
> ~Elissa Cleaveland
> "It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern
> methods of instruction
> have
> not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of
> inquiry." A. Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with
> this list, please email the Moderator, Joyce
> Fetteroll, at fetteroll@...
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
__________________________________________________
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In a message dated 8/9/2002 11:09:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
llindsey3@... writes:
We don't know, do we? But based on what we have -- the Biblical record -- it
says that he said God can send both body and soul to hell. Whether we believe
it or not, or whether we rely on interpretation to deal with it, that is
still what the record says. And that is all I was saying.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
llindsey3@... writes:
> so how do we know he was speaking of the "hell" we think of? or were youL,
> there, bob?
We don't know, do we? But based on what we have -- the Biblical record -- it
says that he said God can send both body and soul to hell. Whether we believe
it or not, or whether we rely on interpretation to deal with it, that is
still what the record says. And that is all I was saying.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
hahahahah.. yes it does..
LLL
(Linda L Lindsey)
http://www.llindsey.com
LLL
(Linda L Lindsey)
http://www.llindsey.com
----- Original Message -----
From: zenmomma *
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Hell
Oops! Last one went out before I finished. :-/ I was intending to add my
favorite taoist saying:
Shit Happens.
Life is good.
~Mary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
Hey, Suzanna. I didn't know. I am always interested in different
religions. Which church is it that you are talking about? What a good
idea! Hell is where you have to spend all the rest of time with other
evil people.
Debbie
others. We don't believe in a literal firey pit. We do believe that
all of the evil people will spend eternity with each other though,
and never be around good people. I think that would be all the
punishment neccessary. And by evil people, we don't mean people who
believe differently than us, we mean really evil people like Hitler,
child molestors, murders, etc. You know, people who, by just about
any standard, would be considered evil.
-Suzanna
religions. Which church is it that you are talking about? What a good
idea! Hell is where you have to spend all the rest of time with other
evil people.
Debbie
>>>>That depends on which Christian church you are talking about. Thechurch I belong to does not have the same concept of Hell as most
others. We don't believe in a literal firey pit. We do believe that
all of the evil people will spend eternity with each other though,
and never be around good people. I think that would be all the
punishment neccessary. And by evil people, we don't mean people who
believe differently than us, we mean really evil people like Hitler,
child molestors, murders, etc. You know, people who, by just about
any standard, would be considered evil.
-Suzanna