Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2213

Luz Shosie and Ned Vare

9 Aug 2002, at 12:05am

on 8/8/02 2:49 PM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:

Cathy asks:

> Isn't this what it's all about?

Ned answers:
Yes. And it applies to all the other skills and knowledge. Let her own
curiosity and interest and pace of learning be your guide to helping her.

Trust your child. Not "experts" and/or others who make their living from
her.

Ned Vare

Luz Shosie and Ned Vare

9 Aug 2002, at 12:08am

Suzanna writes, about her kid in public school:

> They told her that when she graduates she will not get a
> diploma, but a certificate instead. They also told her that she would
> never be able to go to college.

Ned responds:

Suzanna bears me out....Imagine all the lies she has been told at her
child's school. Why do certain women on this list not want to talk about it?
I can't imagine a better reason to UNschool than to avoid dealing with an
institution that doesn't tell people the truth.

I've been listening carefully for twenty years to what school employees tell
children and their parents, and I can safely say that I've seldom heard a
word of truth from any of them. Yours is a typical example. They use fear to
keep parents and children in their programs and away from the truth.

The public school system is a culture of dishonesty and deception.

I'm starting to hear from moderator Joyce that this list is not intended
for the discussion of how disingenuous school employees can be, so it is
risky for me even to confirm for you that you have been purposely
misinformed by your child's school, but that is the case.

At least a million homeschoolers can attest that people don't need a diploma
in order to go to college. I have two sons in that group.

What goes on in schools in many places is that they have arrangements with
other agencies, with quotas to fill. They use the children in order to fill
those quotas whether the children are placed appropriately or not.

Government does not work the way the markets work. In government, every
employee is working for a boss -- not for the interest of the customer,
because the government employee gets paid ONLY if s/he satisfies a boss.
But in the free market, people work to satisfy customers, because nobody
gets paid until the customer is happy and pays the company. School people
are ALWAYS trying to satisfy a boss. If what they do happens to satisfy the
customers -- children and their parents -- it's merely a coincidence

My advice is to expect to be lied to in schools. It's not really the
employee's fault, it is the nature of the institution.

dabejorysmom

9 Aug 2002, at 12:21am

If you will read my post agaain, you will see that it wasn't my kid,
it was my neighbor's kid. My son has decided to quit homeschooling
and go to the same high school as the neighbor's kid. Many kids go
through public schools just fine. I have known many kids who
flourished in public school. Hopefully, my son will. My youngest son
has decided to stay at home, though. (YES!)He had considered
returning to p.s. but when it came time to register, decided to go
ahead and stay home. He semi-regrets that now, though, because since
we are new to this area he doesn't have very many friends yet. I told
him that once the homeschool groups start up their activities he will
be able to meet lots of new kids. We have been told that
homeschooling is really big here. The base we live on even has its
own group that has activities and P.E. The groups didn't do anything
during the summer, but should get started pretty soon.

I agree with alot of what you are saying about p.s.'s in general( we
have had our share of p.s. horror stories that I won't go into now),
but the moderator is correct: the porpose of this list is not to bash
public school, but to share ideas about unschooling.
-Suzanna, newly transplanted in MS

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
<nedvare@n...> wrote:

> Suzanna writes, about her kid in public school:
> > They told her that when she graduates she will not get a
> > diploma, but a certificate instead. They also told her that she

would

> > never be able to go to college.
>
> Ned responds:
>
> Suzanna bears me out....Imagine all the lies she has been told at

her

> child's school. Why do certain women on this list not want to talk

about it?

> I can't imagine a better reason to UNschool than to avoid dealing

with an

> institution that doesn't tell people the truth.
>
>
>
> I've been listening carefully for twenty years to what school

employees tell

> children and their parents, and I can safely say that I've seldom

heard a

> word of truth from any of them. Yours is a typical example. They

use fear to

> keep parents and children in their programs and away from the truth.
>
> The public school system is a culture of dishonesty and deception.
>
> I'm starting to hear from moderator Joyce that this list is not

intended

> for the discussion of how disingenuous school employees can be, so

it is

> risky for me even to confirm for you that you have been purposely
> misinformed by your child's school, but that is the case.
>
> At least a million homeschoolers can attest that people don't need

a diploma

> in order to go to college. I have two sons in that group.
>
> What goes on in schools in many places is that they have

arrangements with

> other agencies, with quotas to fill. They use the children in order

to fill

> those quotas whether the children are placed appropriately or not.
>
> Government does not work the way the markets work. In government,

every

> employee is working for a boss -- not for the interest of the

customer,

> because the government employee gets paid ONLY if s/he satisfies a

boss.

> But in the free market, people work to satisfy customers, because

nobody

> gets paid until the customer is happy and pays the company. School

people

> are ALWAYS trying to satisfy a boss. If what they do happens to

satisfy the

> customers -- children and their parents -- it's merely a coincidence
>
> My advice is to expect to be lied to in schools. It's not really the
> employee's fault, it is the nature of the institution.

[email protected]

9 Aug 2002, at 8:00am

Suzanna bears me out....Imagine all the lies she has been told at her
child's school. Why do certain women on this list not want to talk about it?

Because the list is not focused on pointing out the inadequacies of the
school. It is about unschooling.
I happen to agree with you about many of your views BUT! I didn't come here
to discuss it. There are tons of lists on Yahoogroups alone that are focused
on this topic (political groups) If I wanted to discuss it I would go there.

Could you give me some ideas about how to deepen my understanding of
unschooling EMily?
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein

[email protected]

9 Aug 2002, at 8:47pm

[email protected]

9 Aug 2002, at 8:50pm

In a message dated 8/8/2002 1:50:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

> And to Kim - Genesis 1:1-27, it says God created the heaven, then the earth,
> then light, then earth separate from water, then plants, then day & night,
> then animals, then man & woman at the same time. In Genesis 2:4-25, God
> created the earth, then the heavens and BEFORE the plants were created, he
> created man, then planted a garden, then formed the animals to keep man
> company, then when they didn't work, God made woman. And BTW, adam is a
> hebrew word which means "man" and "adamah" is a hebrew word for earth, so
> many scholars see the Adam creation story as a sort of play on words.
>
> Cathy
>
>
>

WHy is this address to me? For what purpose? I am just wondering.........

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

9 Aug 2002, at 9:25pm

In a message dated 8/8/2002 1:50:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

> And to Kim - Genesis 1:1-27, it says God created the heaven, then the earth,
> then light, then earth separate from water, then plants, then day & night,
> then animals, then man & woman at the same time. In Genesis 2:4-25, God
> created the earth, then the heavens and BEFORE the plants were created, he
> created man, then planted a garden, then formed the animals to keep man
> company, then when they didn't work, God made woman. And BTW, adam is a
> hebrew word which means "man" and "adamah" is a hebrew word for earth, so
> many scholars see the Adam creation story as a sort of play on words.
>
> Cathy
>
>
> I am truly puzzled why you...never mind, however.....

I respect you belief in christianity even though I do not agree or believe in
it.....but that's a personal choice... I know about christianity and grew up
that way and baptist too..... That is no longer my choice since I have grown
beyond that. I have also learned that you don't need all of the other things
to seek and speak to the creator. Going back to my native ancestry beliefs
and studying yoruba, and native spirituality has helped me see alot of
things. Even having my latest child (baby #7 a planned unassisted birth) has
made me aware of alot of things. How so well we are connected to
everything........I know that she knew me before she even came to me... I
still wonder why she chose us to be her parents... Obviously she needs to
show us something or she needs to redo something, but she has taught us so
much.. She has changed us. We view things with so much depth now.
There's a song by India Arie called I see God in you....
That is so true....Yes, I may see her, but there are ALOT of times that I see
God in her.Those looks are not just her looks. Especially when I am down and
do something stupid without thinking. I can look at her and see inner peace
sometimes.
WHen she was born, I looked at her and asked who's old soul are you. I had
recently sent a friend a picture of her since she just turned 1 and she
called me and said...She is an old soul...look at those eyes...the wisdom
that they hold. I said , I know..we have been saying that since she was
born. We do indeed call her our spirit child. The depth of love that she has
engrossed in us is truly unbelieveable. She is a free spirit and is teaching
us more on how to be free spirits as well.
I also believe that people have to find their own paths and I respect that. I
just don't want their beliefs forced on me are be beaten over the head with
it. I feel whatever gets you to that place where you want or need to
be.....go for it! If you need to belong to an organized religion to be in or
help you to that place where you want to be.....go for it......

The same with unschooling......whatever gets you there......whatever works
for you.....unschooling is indeed different for everyone....so is religion,
spirituality, or whatever floats your boat.....

Kim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

zenmomma *

10 Aug 2002, at 11:27am

>>And to Kim - Genesis 1:1-27.....<snip>>>
> > Cathy

>>I am truly puzzled why you...never mind, however.....>>

Wasn't Cathy just answering someone's question about the two different
creation accounts to be found in Genesis? I don't believe this post was an
attempt to proselytize here.

Life is good.
~Mary

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Fetteroll

10 Aug 2002, at 12:16pm

on 8/10/02 11:27 AM, zenmomma * at zenmomma@... wrote:

> Wasn't Cathy just answering someone's question about the two different
> creation accounts to be found in Genesis? I don't believe this post was an
> attempt to proselytize here.

That's the way I took it.

And I know I read somewhere that there's a 3rd account that's different from
those 2 that's deeper into the Old Testament. I think I read it in Kenneth
Davis's Don't Know Much About the Bible. I was sure I owned that but I must
have borrowed it from the library.

It was driving me crazy before I forgot about it. And now you go and bring
it back up again. ;-)

Joyce

[email protected]

10 Aug 2002, at 12:56pm

In a message dated 8/10/02 10:13:35 AM, fetteroll@... writes:

<< And I know I read somewhere that there's a 3rd account that's different
from
those 2 that's deeper into the Old Testament. >>

<A HREF="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/fowl.html">From what
were the fowls created?</A>

This is about whether birds came out of the ocean or out of the ground.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/fowl.html

<A HREF="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/plants.html">Were
plants created before or after humans?</A>

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/plants.html

<A HREF="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/humans.html">Were
humans created before or after the other a</A>nimals?

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/humans.html

zenmomma *

10 Aug 2002, at 1:52pm

>>It was driving me crazy before I forgot about it. And now you go and bring
>>it back up again. ;-)>>

Like one of those songs you just can't get out of your head, huh? You could
always Google it. ;-) Ka-ching! There goes Sandra's Google stock rising
again. <g>

Life is good.
~Mary

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