Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] All Saints and Souls
Alan & Brenda Leonard
> because the church didn't like the idea of celebrating the dead. The dayAgain, I think it's less that the church didn't like the idea of celebrating
> (November 1) is called All Souls Day or All Saints Day. Halloween is All
> Hallows Eve, being the day before All Saints Day.
> ...~Nancy
>
>
> Or in this part of the world.(south texas). we know it as Dia De Los
> Muertos..day of the dead..
> BUT.. come to think of it.. i am a bit confused on this.. because it seems to
> be TWO days.. nov 1 and 2.. so is dia de los muertos the second? or the same
> as all saints? i have not figured this out yet, it seems.. i bet someone here
> knows..
the dead (the pagan celebration), but was looking for a way to blend the new
into the old. The less-desirable (at least to the church!) old goes away
faster if you replace it rather than ban it. Most parents use the same
technique with their young ones!
The church "transformed" the celebration of the dead into a time to honor
the Sainted dead who preceeded us. Hence, Nov. 1 became the Feast of All
Saints, when the Saints (capital S, those whom the church has "Sainted") who
have passed before us are remembered. Later (much later, I think, but I'm
not sure) there was interest in remembering that all those who died in the
faith are also considered saints (little s). Rather than expand a beloved
celebration of important Saints, the natural step was to declare the
following day as their celebration. Hence, All Souls Day, the 2nd of
November.
Somebody with Texas knowledge with have to tell you just how Dia De Los
Muertos falls into that, though. I'm not sure which day that is
celebrating.
brenda
Mary Muday
Hi!
You're right, Halloween is the pagan celebration, but the Christian Tradition it means All Hallows Eve, or the night before All Saints Day, the day we remember All the Saints, from past to present. All Souls Day is the day we remember all the deceased of this land. I would bet that the name you mentioned in Texas is just the Spanish term for the above dates and mean the same, but, I will find out. I'm part of a Spanish parish here in Michigan, where a lot of migrants come from Texas in the summer. Our priest is from Columbia. Hope to an anwser this afternoon.
Thanks
Mary
Alan & Brenda Leonard wrote:> because the church didn't like the idea of celebrating the dead. The day
the dead (the pagan celebration), but was looking for a way to blend the new
into the old. The less-desirable (at least to the church!) old goes away
faster if you replace it rather than ban it. Most parents use the same
technique with their young ones!
The church "transformed" the celebration of the dead into a time to honor
the Sainted dead who preceeded us. Hence, Nov. 1 became the Feast of All
Saints, when the Saints (capital S, those whom the church has "Sainted") who
have passed before us are remembered. Later (much later, I think, but I'm
not sure) there was interest in remembering that all those who died in the
faith are also considered saints (little s). Rather than expand a beloved
celebration of important Saints, the natural step was to declare the
following day as their celebration. Hence, All Souls Day, the 2nd of
November.
Somebody with Texas knowledge with have to tell you just how Dia De Los
Muertos falls into that, though. I'm not sure which day that is
celebrating.
brenda
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You're right, Halloween is the pagan celebration, but the Christian Tradition it means All Hallows Eve, or the night before All Saints Day, the day we remember All the Saints, from past to present. All Souls Day is the day we remember all the deceased of this land. I would bet that the name you mentioned in Texas is just the Spanish term for the above dates and mean the same, but, I will find out. I'm part of a Spanish parish here in Michigan, where a lot of migrants come from Texas in the summer. Our priest is from Columbia. Hope to an anwser this afternoon.
Thanks
Mary
Alan & Brenda Leonard wrote:> because the church didn't like the idea of celebrating the dead. The day
> (November 1) is called All Souls Day or All Saints Day. Halloween is AllAgain, I think it's less that the church didn't like the idea of celebrating
> Hallows Eve, being the day before All Saints Day.
> ...~Nancy
>
>
> Or in this part of the world.(south texas). we know it as Dia De Los
> Muertos..day of the dead..
> BUT.. come to think of it.. i am a bit confused on this.. because it seems to
> be TWO days.. nov 1 and 2.. so is dia de los muertos the second? or the same
> as all saints? i have not figured this out yet, it seems.. i bet someone here
> knows..
the dead (the pagan celebration), but was looking for a way to blend the new
into the old. The less-desirable (at least to the church!) old goes away
faster if you replace it rather than ban it. Most parents use the same
technique with their young ones!
The church "transformed" the celebration of the dead into a time to honor
the Sainted dead who preceeded us. Hence, Nov. 1 became the Feast of All
Saints, when the Saints (capital S, those whom the church has "Sainted") who
have passed before us are remembered. Later (much later, I think, but I'm
not sure) there was interest in remembering that all those who died in the
faith are also considered saints (little s). Rather than expand a beloved
celebration of important Saints, the natural step was to declare the
following day as their celebration. Hence, All Souls Day, the 2nd of
November.
Somebody with Texas knowledge with have to tell you just how Dia De Los
Muertos falls into that, though. I'm not sure which day that is
celebrating.
brenda
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Have a wonderful day, Mary Kathryn Lhotka-Muday
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 03:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Mary Muday
<supermom50mm@...> writes:
indigenous peoples in Mexico for over 3000 years. The Spanish
conquistadors tried to eradicate it, without success, but they did get it
moved to November 1-2, to coincide with All Saints Day and All Souls day,
and some stuff actually starts on the 31st.
Last year Rain and I were in the Tucson Dia de los Muertos parade - we
dressed in black and painted out faces like skulls, and marched for about
5 miles through downtown. There were drums and other musicians,
"puppets" - paper mache heads and hands that people held up with sticks
under a cape, so they were 12 feet or so in the air, stilters (Rain
wished she had brought hers!), and just hundreds of cool people. It
started at dark and the party lasted until well after midnight - we ended
at a club where there were fire dancers - here are some photos, but I
think they're from the year before:
http://www.geocities.com/broadway/alley/2314/convention.htm
The original point of the parade was to "chase" the dead back to their
land, with the "puppets" now representing the dead.
Also, for Dia de los Muertos, it's traditional to make altaras (altars)
for people who have died. It's also traditional to eat decorated skulls
made of hardened sugar - I think you can put the name of the dead person
on the forehead. I believe the Aztecs used real skulls...
I imagine most US cities with a sizeable Hispanic population does
something for Dia de los Muertos... I know Oakland does as well, they
have a big parade in the Fruitvale.
Dar
<supermom50mm@...> writes:
> You're right, Halloween is the pagan celebration, but the ChristianDia de Los Muertos (Literally, Day of the Dead) has been celebrated by
> Tradition it means All Hallows Eve, or the night before All Saints
> Day, the day we remember All the Saints, from past to present. All
> Souls Day is the day we remember all the deceased of this land. I
> would bet that the name you mentioned in Texas is just the Spanish
> term for the above dates and mean the same, but, I will find out.
> I'm part of a Spanish parish here in Michigan, where a lot of
> migrants come from Texas in the summer. Our priest is from
> Columbia. Hope to an anwser this afternoon.
indigenous peoples in Mexico for over 3000 years. The Spanish
conquistadors tried to eradicate it, without success, but they did get it
moved to November 1-2, to coincide with All Saints Day and All Souls day,
and some stuff actually starts on the 31st.
Last year Rain and I were in the Tucson Dia de los Muertos parade - we
dressed in black and painted out faces like skulls, and marched for about
5 miles through downtown. There were drums and other musicians,
"puppets" - paper mache heads and hands that people held up with sticks
under a cape, so they were 12 feet or so in the air, stilters (Rain
wished she had brought hers!), and just hundreds of cool people. It
started at dark and the party lasted until well after midnight - we ended
at a club where there were fire dancers - here are some photos, but I
think they're from the year before:
http://www.geocities.com/broadway/alley/2314/convention.htm
The original point of the parade was to "chase" the dead back to their
land, with the "puppets" now representing the dead.
Also, for Dia de los Muertos, it's traditional to make altaras (altars)
for people who have died. It's also traditional to eat decorated skulls
made of hardened sugar - I think you can put the name of the dead person
on the forehead. I believe the Aztecs used real skulls...
I imagine most US cities with a sizeable Hispanic population does
something for Dia de los Muertos... I know Oakland does as well, they
have a big parade in the Fruitvale.
Dar
[email protected]
okay.. so now i get it.. it is 1 AND 2 of nov.. because there are so many alters and celebrations around that time here for the day o' the dead.. and i have heard both days quoted as the dia...
so now i will celebrate all of them.. .. the parade you and Rain went to sounds fabulous.. we have things like that here in san antonio, but not any one big organized parade.. i think it would be a great idea. so much of our culture here is from mexico.. some consider us north mexico.. i have made some glass skull beads (yes, i am a glass melter.. i love it) decorated like the sugar skulls put on alters at that time.. i love them.. one of the local samba groups used to do a small parade in fabulous black and white costumes with skull masks etc..
L
so now i will celebrate all of them.. .. the parade you and Rain went to sounds fabulous.. we have things like that here in san antonio, but not any one big organized parade.. i think it would be a great idea. so much of our culture here is from mexico.. some consider us north mexico.. i have made some glass skull beads (yes, i am a glass melter.. i love it) decorated like the sugar skulls put on alters at that time.. i love them.. one of the local samba groups used to do a small parade in fabulous black and white costumes with skull masks etc..
L
----- Original Message -----
From: freeform@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] All Saints and Souls
On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 03:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Mary Muday
<supermom50mm@...> writes:
> You're right, Halloween is the pagan celebration, but the Christian
> Tradition it means All Hallows Eve, or the night before All Saints
> Day, the day we remember All the Saints, from past to present. All
> Souls Day is the day we remember all the deceased of this land. I
> would bet that the name you mentioned in Texas is just the Spanish
> term for the above dates and mean the same, but, I will find out.
> I'm part of a Spanish parish here in Michigan, where a lot of
> migrants come from Texas in the summer. Our priest is from
> Columbia. Hope to an anwser this afternoon.
Dia de Los Muertos (Literally, Day of the Dead) has been celebrated by
indigenous peoples in Mexico for over 3000 years. The Spanish
conquistadors tried to eradicate it, without success, but they did get it
moved to November 1-2, to coincide with All Saints Day and All Souls day,
and some stuff actually starts on the 31st.
Last year Rain and I were in the Tucson Dia de los Muertos parade - we
dressed in black and painted out faces like skulls, and marched for about
5 miles through downtown. There were drums and other musicians,
"puppets" - paper mache heads and hands that people held up with sticks
under a cape, so they were 12 feet or so in the air, stilters (Rain
wished she had brought hers!), and just hundreds of cool people. It
started at dark and the party lasted until well after midnight - we ended
at a club where there were fire dancers - here are some photos, but I
think they're from the year before:
http://www.geocities.com/broadway/alley/2314/convention.htm
The original point of the parade was to "chase" the dead back to their
land, with the "puppets" now representing the dead.
Also, for Dia de los Muertos, it's traditional to make altaras (altars)
for people who have died. It's also traditional to eat decorated skulls
made of hardened sugar - I think you can put the name of the dead person
on the forehead. I believe the Aztecs used real skulls...
I imagine most US cities with a sizeable Hispanic population does
something for Dia de los Muertos... I know Oakland does as well, they
have a big parade in the Fruitvale.
Dar
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the Moderator, Joyce Fetteroll, at fetteroll@...
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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In a message dated 8/8/02 4:38:27 PM, llindsey3@... writes:
<< okay.. so now i get it.. it is 1 AND 2 of nov.. because there are so many
alters and celebrations around that time here for the day o' the dead.. and i
have heard both days quoted as the dia... >>
Add to the confusion that as the Jew calculate a day to begin at sundown the
day before, so did much of Europe at one time, in a way. That's why
Christmas Eve is the night before Christmas and "Hallow's Eve" is the night
before November 1. They get named for the day it will be in the morning.
Sandra
<< okay.. so now i get it.. it is 1 AND 2 of nov.. because there are so many
alters and celebrations around that time here for the day o' the dead.. and i
have heard both days quoted as the dia... >>
Add to the confusion that as the Jew calculate a day to begin at sundown the
day before, so did much of Europe at one time, in a way. That's why
Christmas Eve is the night before Christmas and "Hallow's Eve" is the night
before November 1. They get named for the day it will be in the morning.
Sandra