Cathy Gardner

Tanya - About travelling full time...we are very lucky income-wise because my husband has a small (and I mean SMALL) retirement income from the Army. However, we don't plan to be without income. My parents used to full time RV - they went on the road for about 3 years before going back to part time travelling. From them, I've learned a HUGE amount about earning income on the road. Campground hosting is a great job for RVers - free spot and small salary. They recommended to me a magazine called Highways. It's targeted at fulltimers. There's also a comprehensive campground guide for the nation and a publication that lists all hosting opportunities nationwide. I was wondering, though, if you're a little concerned about the variety of homeschooling laws in the states you'll be passing through? I guess to avoid problems, we'll have to research each state's statutes prior to spending a lot of time there in the school year. I don't want to run afoul of tough/unfriendly laws if its not necessary.

For those curious about Halloween/Christmas/Easter: It's been awhile since school (counting it in decades...ouch!) so I went online to check my facts prior to posting. I found a wonderful site that seems very concise and accurate, so I'm going to post my link. As a disclaimer, this does appear to be a Wiccan site, so if that offends you, please don't click through.

http://www.2think.org/hii/holiday.shtml#yule



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/02 9:35:13 AM Central Daylight Time,
gardnergirl_99@... writes:


> I was wondering, though, if you're a little concerned about the variety of
> homeschooling laws in the states you'll be passing through? I guess to
> avoid problems, we'll have to research each state's statutes prior to
> spending a lot of time there in the school year. I don't want to run afoul
> of tough/unfriendly laws if its not necessary.
>

You won't ALWAYS be on the road, will you? There will be some down time and
you will have to spend that time somewhere. You will probably keep a PO Box
in your home-state. That is the state I would concentrate on *knowing* the
hsing law in. If you aren't planning on spending more than 3 months (some
states) to 6 months (most states) in any one state, then I wouldn't worry
about learning all the laws! What an exhausting way to spend your time
anyway! (Unless you have a particular passion with the ins and out's of hsing
law?) Besides, I just don't see the local truant officers spending time at
campgrounds, national parks and scenic byways. I would hope they think people
at those places are on vacation. Should you run into an errant truant officer
in some backwater area, I would just say, "We are on vacation, but I saw a
couple of kids floating down the river on a raft a few minutes ago. If you
hurry you might be able to catch them!" Can't be more difficult than that! <g>

~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/2002 7:34:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
gardnergirl_99@... writes:
> It's been awhile since school (counting it in decades...ouch!) so I went
> online to check my facts prior to posting. I found a wonderful site that
> seems very concise and accurate,

Kathy,

I confess, my interest wasn't whether or not there is a connection between
Christian celebrations and Pagan celebrations, that connection is clear.
Rather, it was with what you said about the Church borrowing Pagan holidays
in order to win converts. It sounded cynical to me, though I doubt you meant
it that way. Regardless, I don't think it is accurate. Maybe it's simply how
we look at it.

The way I see it is that the Church essentially appropriated Pagan holidays
to accommodate *those who had already converted* but who were less than
willing to part with their old celebrations. It wasn't as if the Church
invented the Christmas or Easter celebrations for the sake of "pulling in the
Pagans." At least this is the impression I have.

Choosing the date of the Christian celebration of Christ's resurrection
(Easter), for instance, seems to have simply been a case of convenience. The
Church used the dates or annual periods of ancient celebrations to locate its
new celebrations; times that people were already in the habit of setting
aside for celebration.

A poor analogy (but the only I can come up with off the top of my head) would
be the idea that we typically schedule the birthday parties on Saturday or
Sunday -- not because those are our actual birth dates, but because those
days happen to be the two days of the week that most people have already set
aside for things like parties or celebrations.

Sincerely,

Bob Sale


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

debi watson

Moving over a couple of degrees, I think we also need to add a spoonful of "appropriating Pagan celebrations and providing a clear alternative to show which side you were on" to the mix. Celebrations like Beltane were considered so horrific that the Church wanted to make it clear that anyone participating was NOT Christian. Some early converts tried to meld the old with the new (one example in modern times is people who have a shrine to Mary, say, but put voodoo artifacts upon it), and this was considered repugnant by the Authorities, so many things were done to ensure new members did not consider conversion an "either/or" process, including replacing some celebrations altogether, or at least forbidding participating in Pagan rituals. That was one motivation. In other cases, actions were taken to try to stamp out Paganism (like building a Christian church on a site that was previously sacred to Paganism). So I think you are both right -- it depends on the actual event. You have to take it on a case by case basis. Debi

>>The way I see it is that the Church essentially appropriated Pagan holidays
to accommodate *those who had already converted* but who were less than
willing to part with their old celebrations. It wasn't as if the Church
invented the Christmas or Easter celebrations for the sake of "pulling in the
Pagans." At least this is the impression I have.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

audrey elwood

you may be interested in a book caslled "constantine's sword"-if you haven't
yet heard of it -i forget the author- sorry.
audrey

>From: rsale515@...
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Travelling & Christian Holidays
>Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:42:37 EDT
>
>In a message dated 8/7/2002 7:34:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>gardnergirl_99@... writes:
> > It's been awhile since school (counting it in decades...ouch!) so I went
> > online to check my facts prior to posting. I found a wonderful site
>that
> > seems very concise and accurate,
>
>Kathy,
>
>I confess, my interest wasn't whether or not there is a connection between
>Christian celebrations and Pagan celebrations, that connection is clear.
>Rather, it was with what you said about the Church borrowing Pagan holidays
>in order to win converts. It sounded cynical to me, though I doubt you
>meant
>it that way. Regardless, I don't think it is accurate. Maybe it's simply
>how
>we look at it.
>
>The way I see it is that the Church essentially appropriated Pagan holidays
>to accommodate *those who had already converted* but who were less than
>willing to part with their old celebrations. It wasn't as if the Church
>invented the Christmas or Easter celebrations for the sake of "pulling in
>the
>Pagans." At least this is the impression I have.
>
>Choosing the date of the Christian celebration of Christ's resurrection
>(Easter), for instance, seems to have simply been a case of convenience.
>The
>Church used the dates or annual periods of ancient celebrations to locate
>its
>new celebrations; times that people were already in the habit of setting
>aside for celebration.
>
>A poor analogy (but the only I can come up with off the top of my head)
>would
>be the idea that we typically schedule the birthday parties on Saturday or
>Sunday -- not because those are our actual birth dates, but because those
>days happen to be the two days of the week that most people have already
>set
>aside for things like parties or celebrations.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Bob Sale
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




_________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/02 11:45:15 AM Central Daylight Time, rsale515@...
writes:


> The way I see it is that the Church essentially appropriated Pagan holidays
> to accommodate *those who had already converted* but who were less than
> willing to part with their old celebrations. It wasn't as if the Church
> invented the Christmas or Easter celebrations for the sake of "pulling in
> the
> Pagans." At least this is the impression I have.
>
> Choosing the date of the Christian celebration of Christ's resurrection
> (Easter), for instance, seems to have simply been a case of convenience.
> The
> Church used the dates or annual periods of ancient celebrations to locate
> its
> new celebrations; times that people were already in the habit of setting
> aside for celebration.

There was a time waaay back in Catholic Church history when priests and monks
out on missions to convert the heathens did change pagan rites and
celebrations to suit the needs of the Church. Christmas being celebrated at
the time it is now celebrated came from the pagan rituals of the winter. When
the days became so short and nights long, pagans had celebrations of light.
(I am being very general here) The Catholic Church converted those
celebrations into their own to force pagans to *join.* The lights, Yule log,
and the use of evergreen trees all have pagan roots and were adopted by the
church as a way to ease this transition.
Christ died at the Passover time. Passover is predetermined and therefore so
is Easter. Easter is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the
spring equinox. Lent is the time before Easter so that is how Lent is
determined as well. It isn't because of convince. There are Easter traditions
that have pagan roots that the church adopted to *convence* pagans that
Easter was what they should be celebrating.
Halloween, another pagan celebration was converted to a Christian holiday
because the church didn't like the idea of celebrating the dead. The day
(November 1) is called All Souls Day or All Saints Day. Halloween is All
Hallows Eve, being the day before All Saints Day.
The church didn't necessarily invent these holidays as a way to "pull the
pagans in" but the church certainly did adopt pagan rituals, and use somewhat
unsavory tactics to "convince" the pagans that the ways of the church were
the true and right way.
~Nancy


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[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/2002 10:17:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Dnowens@... writes:
> Christ died at the Passover time. Passover is predetermined and therefore so
>
> is Easter.

But is -- or was -- the Jewish Passover determined upon the vernal equinox?
Easter doesn't always line itself up with Passover, does it?

Bob


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Helen Hegener

At 3:23 PM +0000 8/7/02, [email protected] wrote:
> I was wondering, though, if you're a little concerned about the
>variety of homeschooling laws in the states you'll be passing
>through? I guess to avoid problems, we'll have to research each
>state's statutes prior to spending a lot of time there in the school
>year. I don't want to run afoul of tough/unfriendly laws if its not
>necessary.

Unless you're planning to become a resident of each state as you pass
through it's not a problem, you and your kids would remain residents
of your home state and those are the laws that would apply wherever
you're located.

Helen, longtime traveller

debi watson

The Jews figured their calendar and months on a lunar basis -- that's why certain events don't always line up. Debi

>>But is -- or was -- the Jewish Passover determined upon the vernal equinox?
Easter doesn't always line itself up with Passover, does it?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/02 11:19:47 AM, Dnowens@... writes:

<< There was a time waaay back in Catholic Church history when priests and
monks
out on missions to convert the heathens did change pagan rites and
celebrations to suit the needs of the Church. >>

Way back like 400 years in north America? Or did you mean Waaaay back?

[email protected]

But is -- or was -- the Jewish Passover determined upon the vernal equinox?

Hmmm? Don't know.
Easter doesn't always line itself up with Passover, does it?

Bob
Passover is dependant upon the Hebrew Calender rather than the _____
(Roman?) calender


~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/02 12:29:03 PM Central Daylight Time, rsale515@...
writes:


> > Christ died at the Passover time. Passover is predetermined and therefore
> so
> >
> > is Easter.
>
> But is -- or was -- the Jewish Passover determined upon the vernal equinox?
> Easter doesn't always line itself up with Passover, does it?
>
> Bob

Easter time and Passover are usually close to each other. Passover is
predetermined just like Easter, although I do not know the exact formula.
Also, the Jewish calendar is lunar based (hope I am getting this right) and
since Christ Died at Passover (a Jewish Holy time) Christians had to find a
way to make their Easter come at (approximately) the same time as his death.
(My interpretation of the event anyway. <g>)
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/02 1:57:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> << There was a time waaay back in Catholic Church history when priests and
> monks
> out on missions to convert the heathens did change pagan rites and
> celebrations to suit the needs of the Church. >>
>
> Way back like 400 years in north America? Or did you mean Waaaay back?
>

WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY Back! <g> I was referring to the mass conversions of Celtic
pagans, Germanic tribes, and others. But come to think of it, the treatment
of Native Americans by missionaries was/is just as bad.
~Nancy


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[email protected]

----- Original Message -----
From: Dnowens@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Travelling & Christian Holidays
.....

InHalloween, another pagan celebration was converted to a Christian holiday
because the church didn't like the idea of celebrating the dead. The day
(November 1) is called All Souls Day or All Saints Day. Halloween is All
Hallows Eve, being the day before All Saints Day.
...~Nancy


Or in this part of the world.(south texas). we know it as Dia De Los Muertos..day of the dead..
BUT.. come to think of it.. i am a bit confused on this.. because it seems to be TWO days.. nov 1 and 2.. so is dia de los muertos the second? or the same as all saints? i have not figured this out yet, it seems.. i bet someone here knows..

L


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/02 3:10:23 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Dnowens@...
writes:


> But come to think of it, the treatment
> of Native Americans by missionaries was/is just as bad.
>

I don't see it as "bad" that Christians of English heritage still haul
evergreens into the house on Christmas Eve. The other choice was to ban
anything that even looked like their old traditions.

There are some Pueblo dances that would have died out had it not been they
were rededicated to Saints or loaned/connected to Christian holidays.

If the alternative was to wipe the other culture out entirely, I'm for the
compromise.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/2002 1:06:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
ElissaJC@... writes:
> Passover is dependant upon the Hebrew Calender rather than the _____
> (Roman?) calender


Right, and Easter is NOT based upon the Jewish Passover, as someone said
earlier. Jesus may have been crucified on the Passover, but the Church's
celebration is based upon the Gregorian calendar, which (I think) is based
upon the Julian calendar which observed moons, etc.

Bob


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/02 4:21:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> I don't see it as "bad" that Christians of English heritage still haul
> evergreens into the house on Christmas Eve. The other choice was to ban
> anything that even looked like their old traditions.
>
> There are some Pueblo dances that would have died out had it not been they
> were rededicated to Saints or loaned/connected to Christian holidays.
>
> If the alternative was to wipe the other culture out entirely, I'm for the
> compromise.
>
> Sandra
>

Yes, but the problem as I see it, was that for a long time people were told
that their customs and traditions were bad/evil. It wasn't until they saw
that telling indigenous people how *wrong* they were in their traditions
wasn't going to fly, did they attempt to combine or assimilate the native
traditions into the Christian tradition.
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/02 4:25:50 PM Central Daylight Time, rsale515@...
writes:


> Right, and Easter is NOT based upon the Jewish Passover, as someone said
> earlier. Jesus may have been crucified on the Passover, but the Church's
> celebration is based upon the Gregorian calendar, which (I think) is based
> upon the Julian calendar which observed moons, etc.
>
> Bob

I didn't say Easter is based on Passover, I said since Christ died at
Passover, Christians had to find a way to make Easter fall as close to the
time as possible. Since the calendars are so different, the universally
accepted formula was the best way possible.
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

debi watson

The original Easter (ie, Christ's crucifixion) occured during Passover, so that is why the link between them. *However*, the Jewish calendar is based on 13 lunar months of 28 days each, whereas North American society today is based on the Julian calendar of 12 months of varying duration. The Jews can track passover as always occuring on a certain day during one of their lunar months. They are not concerned about tracking Easter. *Modern* culture tracks Easter, and does it through the Julian calendar. That is why they are not celebrated concurrently. They don't have a whole lot to do with each other -- kind of like Hannukah and Christmas. The former is a celebration of Jewish rebels who were able to keep the oil lit in their (previously defiled) temple for 8 days, which was considered miraculous. It has absolutely no connection with Christmas, which is celebrated December 25 (based on the Julian calendar). Make sense? This is not a case of Christians taking over a formerly Jewish celebration and redesigning it for their own ends. Debi
----- Original Message -----
Passover is dependant upon the Hebrew Calender rather than the _____
(Roman?) calender





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/02 3:48:23 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Dnowens@...
writes:


> Yes, but the problem as I see it, was that for a long time people were told
> that their customs and traditions were bad/evil. It wasn't until they saw
> that telling indigenous people how *wrong* they were in their traditions
> wasn't going to fly, did they attempt to combine or assimilate the native
> traditions into the Christian tradition.
>

This contradicts the original claim, though, which was that way long ago the
Christians assimilated local seasonal customs. I think they always have done
so, for 2000 years.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/2002 2:49:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Dnowens@...
writes:
> Since the calendars are so different, the universally
> accepted formula was the best way possible.
Nancy,

Got it. Sorry.

Bo


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

natural mama

At 07:33 AM 8/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
>I was wondering, though, if you're a little concerned about the variety of
>homeschooling laws in the states you'll be passing through? I guess to
>avoid problems, we'll have to research each state's statutes prior to
>spending a lot of time there in the school year. I don't want to run
>afoul of tough/unfriendly laws if its not necessary.

No, I am not concerned about this in the least. Our home of record, base
camp so to speak, will be WA state. I'll still have a drivers license, car
tags, address (po box) in WA. IMO we're still residents of WA, and I doubt
we'll be staying anywhere long enough to meet "resident" requirements for
any given state. At this point, we're only going to be doing cross country
next summer (six weeks, maybe eight, depending on when dh's new contract
starts). We're staying put in the general area for this school year, and
going on mini trips whenever we have the chance.

Tanya

kayb85

The thing I would think you might want to keep in mind are daytime
curfew laws, especially if the kids will be seperate from you at all.
Sheila


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., natural mama <naturallyorganic@a...>
wrote:
> At 07:33 AM 8/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >I was wondering, though, if you're a little concerned about the
variety of
> >homeschooling laws in the states you'll be passing through? I
guess to
> >avoid problems, we'll have to research each state's statutes prior
to
> >spending a lot of time there in the school year. I don't want to
run
> >afoul of tough/unfriendly laws if its not necessary.
>
> No, I am not concerned about this in the least. Our home of record,
base
> camp so to speak, will be WA state. I'll still have a drivers
license, car
> tags, address (po box) in WA. IMO we're still residents of WA, and
I doubt
> we'll be staying anywhere long enough to meet "resident"
requirements for
> any given state. At this point, we're only going to be doing cross
country
> next summer (six weeks, maybe eight, depending on when dh's new
contract
> starts). We're staying put in the general area for this school
year, and
> going on mini trips whenever we have the chance.
>
> Tanya

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/02 7:23:07 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< The thing I would think you might want to keep in mind are daytime
curfew laws, especially if the kids will be seperate from you at all. >>

Daytime curfew laws don't apply to tourists or people on vacation or anyone
whose school is out of session.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/7/02 6:00:21 PM Central Daylight Time,
debiwatson@... writes:


> The Jews can track passover as always occuring on a certain day during one
> of their lunar months. They are not concerned about tracking Easter.
> *Modern* culture tracks Easter, and does it through the Julian calendar.
> That is why they are not celebrated concurrently. They don't have a whole
> lot to do with each other -- kind of like Hannukah and Christmas. The
> former is a celebration of Jewish rebels who were able to keep the oil lit
> in their (previously defiled) temple for 8 days, which was considered
> miraculous. It has absolutely no connection with Christmas, which is
> celebrated December 25 (based on the Julian calendar). Make sense? This
> is not a case of Christians taking over a formerly Jewish celebration and
> redesigning it for their own ends. Debi

No one said that. One conversation is dealing with how the actual date of
Easter is determined, the other conversation is dealing with how the early
church assimilated or took over some pagan traditions (not Jewish traditions)
to suit the church's supposed need to convert.
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

debi watson

This
> is not a case of Christians taking over a formerly Jewish celebration and
> redesigning it for their own ends. Debi

No one said that. One conversation is dealing with how the actual date of
Easter is determined, the other conversation is dealing with how the early
church assimilated or took over some pagan traditions (not Jewish traditions)
to suit the church's supposed need to convert.
~Nancy

Oh, I know no one said it. I forgot the phrase "Unlike the Pagan scenario," -- sometimes all the stuff in my head doesn't quite make it to the screen. (Problem Between Chair and Keyboard). I was merely using it to illustrate the point (you know, compare and contrast). The one thing I really hate about email is that you con't see a person's face -- I am smiling and my eyes are twinkling. I am not feeling snarky or defensive. Just clarifying! :o) Debi



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

KT

>
>
>The thing I would think you might want to keep in mind are daytime
>curfew laws, especially if the kids will be seperate from you at all.
>Sheila
>

A state issued ID (or driver's license if the kid's old enough) from
your home state should do the trick. This is why my 17 yo keeps his
Arkansas driver's license, even though he's now in TN. He has never
been stopped, though, even when he was a 14 yo walking to work in the
middle of the school day.

Three more months and it will no longer be an issue! I will be so
relieved not to have to think about the homeschool laws anymore!

Tuck