[email protected]

and besides.. someone disagreeing with one's views or even putting down one's views does not necessarily constitute the personal attack we often take it as.. i have learned to simply ignore messages that disagree unless there is something useful for me in them.. or new information i want in them..

getting angry over disagreements in philosophies of learning (or anything else) is directly related to our own insecurities and need for validation..

so what if someone disagrees with your ideas or my ideas.. i dont take that as a personal attack.. it's not.. i may think some people are really nuts .. but that doesnt MAKE them nuts.. it's just my own ideas..

i mean for one thing.. i find SO MANY rules on this list.. i have seen as many rules for UNschooling as i have for SCHOOLING... hahhaahaha.. but then .... some people need rules..

Linda LL
----- Original Message -----
From: kevden@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2187


I'm sorry, but it doesn't make any sense at all to me to try to compare
physical abuse and corporal punishment of children...to rude posts. And
to disagree very strongly with a co-members unschooling view and put up
an argument in defense of your own views _can_ be done tactfully.

Hugs,
Denise


If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the Moderator, Joyce Fetteroll, at fetteroll@...

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/4/2002 9:54:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
llindsey3@... writes:


> i mean for one thing.. i find SO MANY rules on this list.. i have seen as
> many rules for UNschooling as i have for SCHOOLING... hahhaahaha.. but then
> .... some people need rules..

So - let's take off from this post and talk about this idea that there are
"rules" for unschooling.

What I've seen I didn't take as "rules" so much as people talking about what
they really mean by unschooling. Rules implies there is some kind of enforcer
-- some standard that we are required to follow. But - this is just email -
just a discussion list. You don't have to register as an unschooler and
nobody is authorized to check up on us <G>. People might say, "That isn't
unschooling." So what? THAT itself is just something to consider -- think
about - "Hey, maybe there is MORE to unschooling than I understood before -
let me ask some more or write some more and get more feedback about this new
development." Or they might think, "Whoa - I think I was totally
misunderstood - let me clarify what I meant because I really DO think it is
unschooling. Let's see if my clarification changes the response."

Here on this list we often seem to talk about what unschooling really is --
and when people do that, try to describe what they see as "unschooling,"
sometimes other people feel like they are trying to impose rules.

I think it does have to do, as Mary said, with how confident people are with
their own decisions. Some people feel personally criticized when someone
says, "That isn't unschooling." Some people feel they are having rules
imposed on them when someone says: "Using a formal phonics program is not
unschooling." Some people really have a desire to "be" unschoolers and it
feels bad to them when people take it farther than they really want to take
it. They see it as a power struggle over who gets the bragging rights - to
call themselves unschoolers. But REALLY it isn't about that - it is just
about exchanging ideas -- that's ALL.

Instead of feeling imposed on - a more confident person would say, to
themselves, "Oh - interesting - that person doesn't think this is
unschooling. I wonder why not? I wonder what, in her opinion, an unschooler
WOULD do in this situation? I wonder if she really understood what I meant? I
wonder if there COULD be another way that would work better? I wonder if this
might actually have some deleterious side effects? I wonder what they might
be? Hmmm - I don't think I agree with this point she made - let me say on the
list why I don't agree and find out what the response will be - give me and
others something more to consider."

AND they might say, to themselves, "Hmmm - I really like what we're already
doing - it is really working for us - so that comment didn't really hit home
for me. Maybe we're not as radical unschoolers as some others are -
interesting to hear how far some people do take this, though. Should I change
what we're doing? I don't really want to. Well, at least I can consider other
options and know that there are people out there doing things differently.
Worth being aware of that in case I do decide that what we're now doing is no
longer working well for us."

--pamS
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

zenmomma *

>>What I've seen I didn't take as "rules" so much as people talking about
>>what they really mean by unschooling.>>

When I post, I like to answer the questions and question the answers.

Life is good.
~Mary



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Deb

I too have found the communication exchange on this list rather bizarre
and rude. There are plenty of interesting ideas, but a tendency by a few
to say "That's not unschooling!" or "That's not valid." It would make a
lot more sense to say, " I got what you said, but I see it
differently...." Or ask questions as you suggest. But it happened to me
when I first jumped in. Even when I posted again, I got back some absurd
post from one person suggesting I had done, thought, viewed things a way
I had not, and she wasn't interested or gonna ask me what I thought!
Anyway, I decided to mainly lurk and take what ideas I respected and
wanted, but not really post or not much - because there are a vocal few
who seem more interested in their own pat answers than new thoughts or
exchange to develop ideas further. .. My actual views are probably way
more radical than anyone here could actually stomach.
Oh, well. I still enjoy quite a few of the posts. I guess there are
enough speakers on here already.

Debbie
>
> What I've seen I didn't take as "rules" so much as people talking about what
> they really mean by unschooling. Rules implies there is some kind of enforcer
> -- some standard that we are required to follow. But - this is just email -
> just a discussion list. You don't have to register as an unschooler and
> nobody is authorized to check up on us <G>. People might say, "That isn't
> unschooling." So what? THAT itself is just something to consider -- think
> about - "Hey, maybe there is MORE to unschooling than I understood before -
> let me ask some more or write some more and get more feedback about this new
> development." Or they might think, "Whoa - I think I was totally
> misunderstood - let me clarify what I meant because I really DO think it is
> unschooling. Let's see if my clarification changes the response."
>
> Here on this list we often seem to talk about what unschooling really is --
> and when people do that, try to describe what they see as "unschooling,"
> sometimes other people feel like they are trying to impose rules.
>
> I think it does have to do, as Mary said, with how confident people are with
> their own decisions. Some people feel personally criticized when someone
> says, "That isn't unschooling." Some people feel they are having rules
> imposed on them when someone says: "Using a formal phonics program is not
> unschooling." Some people really have a desire to "be" unschoolers and it
> feels bad to them when people take it farther than they really want to take
> it. They see it as a power struggle over who gets the bragging rights - to
> call themselves unschoolers. But REALLY it isn't about that - it is just
> about exchanging ideas -- that's ALL.
>


> Instead of feeling imposed on - a more confident person would say, to
> themselves, "Oh - interesting - that person doesn't think this is
> unschooling. I wonder why not? I wonder what, in her opinion, an unschooler
> WOULD do in this situation? I wonder if she really understood what I meant? I
> wonder if there COULD be another way that would work better? I wonder if this
> might actually have some deleterious side effects? I wonder what they might
> be? Hmmm - I don't think I agree with this point she made - let me say on the
> list why I don't agree and find out what the response will be - give me and
> others something more to consider."
>
> AND they might say, to themselves, "Hmmm - I really like what we're already
> doing - it is really working for us - so that comment didn't really hit home
> for me. Maybe we're not as radical unschoolers as some others are -
> interesting to hear how far some people do take this, though. Should I change
> what we're doing? I don't really want to. Well, at least I can consider other
> options and know that there are people out there doing things differently.
> Worth being aware of that in case I do decide that what we're now doing is no
> longer working well for us."
>
> --pamS
>

KT

Deb said:

>My actual views are probably way
>more radical than anyone here could actually stomach.
>

And I reply, as Ned said, "Bring it on".

Tuck