Louise Rynkewicz

Hi everybody,

I've lurked enough and have thoroughly enjoyed the dialogue.

I joined this list after 1.5yrs of homeschooling my 8yr old ds. I took him out of school half way through 1st grade when he was showing signs of depression. He was unstimulated and frustrated. He has huge frustrations with reading and writing (we are looking into vision testing)but is conceptually advanced in most areas. The crunch came when the school principal refused to accept his giftedness and stated "I will not rearrange MY school for your child".

We have been feeling our way through homeschooling ever since. I have now come to the conclusion that I have been trying to "school" too much. I need to find a way to get him excited about learning again. I will go along with any interests he has but he is not very self led. He seems to need quite alot of guidance.

I'm not sure that total "unschooling" is our destination but I know that finding the right balance for my son (and his siblings) IS my destination. I am also sure that a large degree of unschooling has got to be the answer.

Hence my plea to everyone out there! With all your experiences I hoping you can give me some guidance. I'm someone who likes to see something produced on paper (workbooks look great to me although I've never considered using a curriculum - he may as well be in school!!) but I know they are not for him. I want to inspire him again. I can see ways and means of unschooling most subjects (art, history, science,geography etc)since it seems to me that they are things we talk about and do as a family anyway. You've probably guessed my problem; MATH. I can see introducing concepts while cooking and crafting and in general everyday life but how do you unschool the formulas for calculating the circumference of a circle, Pythagoras and higher Trig functions, calculus, physics functions etc? Do I just have to leave this until he picks them up himself - I think I'm scared to do that. He likes math and science and these higher functions are going to be important to be able to manipulate the
concepts that he already understands.

I would appreciate any help. Please be gentle with me, I'm new to this ;.)

Thanks for listening,
Louise


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Tia Leschke

>
>
>Hence my plea to everyone out there! With all your experiences I hoping
>you can give me some guidance. I'm someone who likes to see something
>produced on paper (workbooks look great to me although I've never
>considered using a curriculum - he may as well be in school!!) but I know
>they are not for him. I want to inspire him again. I can see ways and
>means of unschooling most subjects (art, history, science,geography
>etc)since it seems to me that they are things we talk about and do as a
>family anyway. You've probably guessed my problem; MATH. I can see
>introducing concepts while cooking and crafting and in general everyday
>life but how do you unschool the formulas for calculating the
>circumference of a circle, Pythagoras and higher Trig functions, calculus,
>physics functions etc? Do I just have to leave this until he picks them up
>himself - I think I'm scared to do that. He likes math and science and
>these higher functions are going to be important to be able to manipulate the
> concepts that he already understands.

You may well find that unschooling is not for you and your family, but you
won't *really* know unless you jump in with both feet. To do that, you
need to stop thinking in terms of school subjects at all, and start
thinking in terms of what will help your son explore the things he's
interested in. If he's really interested in science and math, he's going
to be asking questions about those things. You can help him go from one
question to the next and show him how they all connect. If he really needs
calculus and physics, etc. to do what he wants to do, then you can help him
find ways to learn those things. But start with where he is now and where
he wants to go now.

Part of the reason I'm jumping in here is that thinking in terms of school
subjects really got in the way of my own understanding of unschooling, and
I started out thinking I was a radical unschooler. <g>
Tia, who hopes that was both gentle and clear

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/24/02 2:19:23 PM, lrynkewicz@... writes:

<< I can see introducing concepts while cooking and crafting and in general
everyday life but how do you unschool the formulas for calculating the
circumference of a circle, Pythagoras and higher Trig functions, calculus,
physics functions etc? Do I just have to leave this until he picks them up
himself - I think I'm scared to do that. >>

He's eight.

Lewis

Louise,

Our family is too new to unschooling to give any advice.

However, regarding vision, we are quite well informed. Our three sons all
have glasses for varying reasons. Our younges is legally blind without
glasses, and 20/60 with them, he has extreme astigmatism and a crossed eye
and wears thick bi-focal glasses. Our middle guy is not so bad, and our
oldest has bi-focals with a very weak prescription.

Anyway, we have discovered Vision Therapy, and it has done wonders for our
children. Vision Therapy is not only for children with extreme vision
problems such as our youngest two. They use VT to treat ADD, and similar
problems. There is great information on the internet.

One good source is www.alderwoodvisiontherapy.com and www.visiontherapy.org.
There are other great sites as well. www.children-special-needs.org.

You may or may not be interested in the subject, but since you mentioned it,
I thought I would share.

Debbie

NessaPower

Is there a way to do vision therapy on your own? It will be so costly to take our daughter, esp. if there isn't a guarantee for end results. She's 6 1/2, and we found out too late with eyes also.
Vanessa
Our lil' sweeties:
Victoria Rose, Madison Grace, and
David Kent


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David and Bonnie Altman

I don't think 6 1/2 is "too late" by any means. Most children don't read well until they're seven anyway.

NessaPower

Oh, I don't really mean "too late" for reading and such. But after researching on the net and such on her condition(ambloypia), its best to diagnois in the early years to improve your chances on better eyesight. Wasn't until 6 months ago, that the school caught it, when the pediatrician all these years has said nothing was wrong.
Hopefully she will do better with mom and learning one on one, then she would have in school... I just hope I have the patience I need, she is an extreme hyper child...but that's what makes her special!
Vanessa
Our lil' sweeties:
Victoria Rose, Madison Grace, and
David Kent


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/24/02 7:51:05 PM, altman@... writes:

<< Most children don't read well until they're seven anyway. >>

"MOST" children might read well at seven in school with materials created for
maintaining the illusion that seven year olds are reading well (that is, 2nd
grade level reading materials) but as to a person "reading well," meaning
they can pick up anything off the table at the doctor's office and actually
read it, more likely ten years old for "MOST," and thanks for pushing six and
seven year olds to read, it's NEVER for some people, because they just shut
down.

Lest anyone here take comfort in the idea that maybe my kids are mentally
deficient, they're not. But leaving them to learn to read naturally, they
read at 8, 9 and 10 years old. That's if Holly's really reading fluently
before she turns 11 in November. She's reading MOST of the words on Harry
Potter cards, but she doesn't go to the dentist and pick up a magazine yet,
and that is what I call reading.

Sandra

[email protected]

On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:36:20 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
> "MOST" children might read well at seven in school with materials
created for
> maintaining the illusion that seven year olds are reading well (that
is, 2nd
> grade level reading materials) but as to a person "reading well,"
meaning
> they can pick up anything off the table at the doctor's office and
actually
> read it, more likely ten years old for "MOST,"

Ya think?

My mileage varies, I guess... at least for girls. Almost every
unschooled (or eclectically homeschooled with a real unschooling slant)
girl we've known well has begun reading fluently (i.e., pretty much
anything they can put their hands on) between 6 1/2 and 7 1/2. Some, like
my daughter, had been slowly picking up words and concepts for years and
then suddenly took off at almost 7. Others had different patterns - one
girl we know was reading nothing when we went to Tucson and was reading
everything 6 months later when we returned, shortly before her seventh
birthday. I do think there's a developmental change that happens around
6 1/2 - 7 1/2 in a lot of girls that makes reading suddenly easier. Not
all girls, of course, but half? Two thirds? I guess I do think most, and
I assume that schools originally wanted to capitalize on that
developmental shift... now, of course, they push reading on 4 yr olds.

Granted, it's a biased sample mostly made up of girls who Rain likes, so
they may tend to have other personality traits that lead to reading at
that age.

By experience with boys has been different, the unschooled boys we know
have generally started reading fluently around 10, but there's been a lot
more variation.

I'd like to hear others' experiences.

Dar

Tia Leschke

>I'd like to hear others' experiences.

Lars started at 12 only because I pushed him. I really wish I knew when he
would have started on his own. My granddaughter is reading a little at 7
1/2. She'll read a whole Archie comic, but other than that, just words on
signs and stuff.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Joylyn

This is exactly why I think all babies, by the time they are 6 months
old, should have a full vision exam by a pediatric opthomologist. The
sooner you catch and treat eye problems the better. I, unfortunately,
know a bit about this as my 7 year old has had three surgeries, wears
glasses, and was born with strabismus. I knew something was wrong at 3
days old but my pediatrician said i was worried over nothing, and
refused to give us a referal. I didn't fight it, I was a new mom. He
said that he would refer her at 2 months so I made an appt on her 2nd
month birthday and was given my referal but by the time we got to the
pediatric opth, she was 3 1/2 months old. The first thing out of the
doc's mouth was "Why didn't I see this child at birth!"

You can bet my 2nd child was in his office before she was a week old,
and she see's him every year or so, while Lexie visits her Ped. Opth
every 3-4 months.

Joylyn

NessaPower wrote:

> Oh, I don't really mean "too late" for reading and such. But after
> researching on the net and such on her condition(ambloypia), its best
> to diagnois in the early years to improve your chances on better
> eyesight. Wasn't until 6 months ago, that the school caught it, when
> the pediatrician all these years has said nothing was wrong.
> Hopefully she will do better with mom and learning one on one, then
> she would have in school... I just hope I have the patience I need,
> she is an extreme hyper child...but that's what makes her special!
> Vanessa
> Our lil' sweeties:
> Victoria Rose, Madison Grace, and
> David Kent
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Joylyn

freeform@... wrote:

>
> I'd like to hear others' experiences.

Lexie clicked at about 6, I think. She can now read anything she wants.

Janene is very frustrated at 4 that she can't read. I'm not sure how to
deal with it. Years ago I would have sat down with lots of different
curriculum stuff and taught her to read, as I did to so many as a
teacher. I'd rather she just wait and read as she is ready. She may
not be so inclined. I guess if she asks me I will help her learn. She
really wants to do what Lexie does.

Joylyn


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

chris caravalho

Dear Sandra,

Your message could not have come at a more appropriate
time for me. I was just going to do a search on
"reading delay" to see if there were any suggestions,
advice, etc. Thank you for reminding me to let them
learn "naturally" and for sharing your wisdom!
Regarding your statement "lest anyone here take
comfort in the idea that maybe my kids are mentally
deficient, they're not" - how did you become confident
enough to differentiate between your child not being
ready to read yet versus a learning disability?

Mahalo!
Dawn C.

--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/24/02 7:51:05 PM,
> altman@... writes:
>
> << Most children don't read well until they're
> seven anyway. >>
>
> "MOST" children might read well at seven in school
> with materials created for
> maintaining the illusion that seven year olds are
> reading well (that is, 2nd
> grade level reading materials) but as to a person
> "reading well," meaning
> they can pick up anything off the table at the
> doctor's office and actually
> read it, more likely ten years old for "MOST," and
> thanks for pushing six and
> seven year olds to read, it's NEVER for some people,
> because they just shut
> down.
>
> Lest anyone here take comfort in the idea that maybe
> my kids are mentally
> deficient, they're not. But leaving them to learn
> to read naturally, they
> read at 8, 9 and 10 years old. That's if Holly's
> really reading fluently
> before she turns 11 in November. She's reading MOST
> of the words on Harry
> Potter cards, but she doesn't go to the dentist and
> pick up a magazine yet,
> and that is what I call reading.
>
> Sandra
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with
> this list, please email the Moderator, Joyce
> Fetteroll, at fetteroll@...
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Cheryl

Most of these concepts can arise in the normal questions children ask, for
example,

>formulas for calculating the circumference of a circle,

How do the gears on a bicycle work?

>Pythagoras

How long does a piece of wood needs to be to brace the corner of woodwork
project?

>Higher Trig functions,

Basic Trig can be covered in discussions about how ships navigate or how to
work out how tall a buliding is. I can't think of how Higher Trig could be
brought up in the course of a normal conversation.

>calculus,
Another difficult one for normal conversation.

>physics functions etc?

Discussing the way the physical world works, e.g. gravity, friction,
acceleration etc.

>Do I just have to leave this until he picks them up himself - I think I'm
scared to do that.

I don't see any problem with introducing concepts to children that they
would not have thought up on their own. Often children don't know enough to
be able to ask questions. I have no hesitation asking questions to
stimulate a particular line of thought. A good one is, "Why do you think
that happened?".

>He likes math and science and these higher functions are going to be
important to be able to >manipulate the concepts that he already
understands.

If, in fact, it is true that he will need "these higher functions" isn't it
better that the understanding be a natural outcome of his exploration and
desire to manipulate the concepts rather than abstract concepts learned
because some book says you ought to know it?

I have serious doubts about the value of learning much of the higher math
amongst other things taught in school. If I or my husband, who is an
engineer, cannot demonstrate to our daughter how we use a particular
mathematical concept we are uncomfortable about insisting she learn it. We
are confident that should she need to demonstrate her knowledge of math
concepts or anything else in order to obtain entry to university, she will
be motivated to study them.

None of us know exactly what academic skills our children are going to need
to be employable. Possibly up to 50% of the potential jobs have yet to be
invented. There is no way you can possibly cover all possibilities.
Schools do not have any "inside knowledge" on what children need to know.
Just because school tries to teach particular concepts does not
automatically mean the information is worth knowing. Keep in mind that we
all have gaps in our knowledge and spend all our lives filling in the holes
we consider useful to fill. Unschooling is a wonderful way to encourage
children to have confidence in their ability to fill of those holes at any
time in their life without having to rely on someone else teaching them.

Trust in your ability to guide your children. You know what basic skills we
all require to function effectively as adults in our society. Children tend
to learn most of it through a desire to imitate the adults around them.
Make an effort to surround your family with interesting people and
activities, punctuated liberally with time for reflection and learning just
happens.

Hugs,
Cheryl

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/25/02 1:51:12 AM, chrisdawnc@... writes:

<< Regarding your statement "lest anyone here take
comfort in the idea that maybe my kids are mentally
deficient, they're not" - how did you become confident
enough to differentiate between your child not being
ready to read yet versus a learning disability?
>>

With or without a so-called "learning disability" (most of which are just
differences between that child's actual learning style or talents and what
schools WISH they had and did to "stay on schedule"), if a child isn't
reading he's not. It cannot be forced. If it could, there would be no late
readers in school.

What CAN be done (schools prove daily) is that kids can be made afraid of
reading, can change their whole self-image because it didn't come easily on
schedule, and can decide books are stupid and they want nothing to do with
thm.

Homeschoolers can do that at home. Many do. I decided early on I wasn't
going to.

I "helped Kirby read" in the traditional way two and a half times. He was
late in his 6th year of life. I was afraid he wouldn't read and maybe it was
my fault. We both cried. I realized it was harmful from the look in his
eyes, the slump of his shoulders, and the horror in me.

The next two were spared anything they didn't request. Lots of play and
games and songs and goofing with words, but not "Come and do this now."

Holly asks for a reading lesson sometimes, and I'll write down some words or
find some flashcards or magnets and go through and find words I think she can
sound out. She only wants five minute "games" of it, certainly not 45
minutes or anything horrible.

As to whether they're smart enough to learn to read, Marty had the look in
his eyes the day he was born of someone who knew more than I did. That
hasn't changed. And he spoke well and early, understands concepts, uses cool
phrasings, and still, "Verbal" is not one of his main intelligences.

We're rearranging furniture and rooms lately, slowly, gradually. The box of
antique Tinker-Toys showed up on the table. Marty built a frame with a crank
fan. Not the straightforward easiest way, but with gears made by sticking
sticks into one of the free-turning round thingies. And with a crank handle.
No models, no suggestions, just built it.

Language use and letter recognition and a phonics interest are called
"reading" or "reading readiness" in school, but in a school-free life, they
can be really separate things which will eventually come together on their
own and naturally, but the presence of one or another doesn't necessarily
mean the other is right around the corner.

I have always thought a child who learns to read on his own will have a block
of confidence that nothing will shake. A child whose mom "teaches him to
read" and "teaches him math" and thinks she taught him to walk and talk is
learning to wait for her to teach him history and teach him science. If a
child feels that reading wasn't all that big a deal he will think NOTHING of
human anatomy or times tables. They're very small bodoes of trivia compared
to figuring out all the rules and exceptions and patterns in written English.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/25/02 4:04:03 AM, massage@... writes:

<< I have no hesitation asking questions to
stimulate a particular line of thought. A good one is, "Why do you think
that happened?". >>

I have come to hesitate about asking my children anything I wouldn't ask my
adult friends.

When I want to get to the "why do you think" without it turning into a test
or lesson, I'll say "When I was little I thought gravity was..." or "I used
to think maybe this..." and that give the child the opportunity not only to
see that understanding evolves but they can add their own theory without
feeling it's wrong to have a theory, as a kid.

Different parent/child conversation styles are different. Sometimes parents
get TOO much of a teacherly attitude, though (and I'm thinking of some
particular locals who ask their children leading questions not in a
conversational way but in a "NOW I'm homeschooling!" way which the kids see
right through even though the parent might not realize she does it (or he
does it).

Sandra

Sandra

zenmomma *

>>Is there a way to do vision therapy on your own? It will be so costly to
>>take our daughter, esp. if there isn't a guarantee for end results. She's
>>6 1/2, and we found out too late with eyes also.>>

Well, of course, it's never too late. :o) At 6 1/2 she has plenty of time to
get her vision worked out and ready for reading. She doesn't need to read
yet. She has time.

You should be able to find a Vision Therapist who can work out a home
program for you. Conor did VT for awhile and a lot of it was homework
anyway.

Life is good.
~Mary


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zenmomma *

>>Hopefully she will do better with mom and learning one on one, then she
>>would have in school... I just hope I have the patience I need, she is an
>>extreme hyper child...but that's what makes her special!>>

Absolutely! Try not to focus on "teaching" her and you'll find you won't be
constantly butting heads with all that hyper energy. Be with her, learn with
her, show her cool and useful stuff. That can all be done without having to
make her sit still. And she'll learn! Promise. And try not to worry about
reading, that will come too.

Life is good.
~Mary


_________________________________________________________________
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Lewis

Joylyn, (and everyone else)

My son also had strabismus at birth, and the Dr.'s did not think it was a
problem. However, since it runs in our family, and we had insurance that
you did not have to get a referral with, I went ahead and made an appt. with
a PO.

Well, my child not only had extreme far-sightedness to the point of being
legally blind, but also a severely crossed eye. He was put in glasses at 9
months old.

Yes, to everyone out there, have your children's eyes checked EVERY year if
you can. Both our youngest were in glasses for years before our oldest was
diagnosed. We had him into the eye Dr. from 3 months old, only to be told
he was a little far-sighted, but appropriate for his age. I still continued
to take him in, and low and behold, at the age of 8 he was losing vision in
one eye, and was prescribed bi-focal glasses which help him see SO much
better. He was told he only needed them for close-up work, but he chooses
to wear them all of the time, which the Dr. said was just great.

Have your kids eyes checked every year!!!

Debbie

Lewis

We see a Vision Therapist that happens to be a 3 hour drive and ferry ride
away. This is fortunate for us, because we are able to do all the therapy
at home, and have an office visit every three months or so. Otherwise it
would be more expensive.

I could share exercises, but I really think it better to actually find a
therapist that could give specific exercises based on your child's needs.
All three of my boys have different exercises to work on, it is quite
complicated.

Debbie

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/25/2002 4:10:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> When I want to get to the "why do you think" without it turning into a test
> or lesson, I'll say "When I was little I thought gravity was..." or "I used
>
> to think maybe this..." and that give the child the opportunity not only to
>
> see that understanding evolves but they can add their own theory without
> feeling it's wrong to have a theory, as a kid.
>
> Different parent/child conversation styles are different.

Yesterday I had a conversation with Lexie, Joylyn's daughter (:::waving to
Joylyn:::) who is 7, I think. I mentioned that I'd read on the Scientific
American website that scientists are only just beginning to understand how
spiders can walk on their own webs without sticking to them. I described to
her how one kind of spider has a way of doing it, sort of mechanically - it
was complicated, but she listened with great interest. Then, when I'd
explained it, she immediately started thinking of OTHER ways spiders might be
able to walk on their own webs without sticking. She started with, "Well MY
theory is that ....". What I loved about it was that she didn't hesitate at
all to include her own theories right there in with those of the scientists.
And, in fact, her theories were excellent ones. One was that when the spiders
spin their webs, they leave unsticky spots and that the spider has an
internal map that tells it where those nonsticky spots are so that it can
walk all over the web. Another was that it secretes just a little dab of an
oil or something in its feet as it walks, that reacts with its own threads
and makes them not sticky.

Anyway - one thing I really like to do is find little interesting topics like
that, where scientists really do NOT have many answers, especially topics
that kids can really relate to. The reason the spider conversation came up
was because Joylyn was just sitting there and spider sort of dropped down on
her out of a tree, suddenly, and she was showing it to us.

I need to remember to mention to Lexie (because she always likes these little
animal-related tidbits) that scientists think they've discovered something
about how the Monarch butterflies know how to migrate thousands of miles
every year. They've never really known - but now have evidence that they know
which way to fly based on the location of the sun. And they came up with an
ingenious way to study the butterflies, too, by tethering them so that they
think they are going somewher, but really don't, and putting a little teensy
sensor on them so they can keep track of which direction they are flying.
However, they still don't know at all how the butterflies know how to go back
to the same exact spots along the migration route.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-butterfly22jul22005042.s

tory?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dnation

That is the article, you have to register on the LA Times site to see it - it
is free to register.
-
--pam

National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/25/2002 12:23:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
PSoroosh@... writes:


> I mentioned that I'd read on the Scientific
> American website that scientists are only just beginning to understand how
> spiders can walk on their own webs without sticking to them.

I was really surprised to read this post! Just yesterday, my son and I were
reading a Your Big Backyard magazine together and we read an article titled,
" Why Don't Spiders Get Stuck in Their Own Webs?" The article mentioned that
spiders make both sticky and non-sticky threads and usually know where to
walk, but accidents happen, and spiders can ooze a stick-proof oil from
glands around their mouths which they rub on their feet. I found it really
interesting!
Amy Kagey
Free shipping on books thru July!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

zenmomma *

>>And they came up with an ingenious way to study the butterflies, too, by
>>tethering them so that they think they are going somewher, but really
>>don't, and putting a little teensy sensor on them so they can keep track
>>of which direction they are flying.>>

Conor did a cool project in school once (and I do mean once ;-)) where they
caught and tagged Monarchs as part of a study. They recorded their data and
sent it in to the research team. Here's a link I found. I think this is the
same study. It was lots of fun.

http://www.nps.gov/amis/monarchs.htm

Life is good.
~Mary

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Tia Leschke

>
>I need to remember to mention to Lexie (because she always likes these little
>animal-related tidbits) that scientists think they've discovered something
>about how the Monarch butterflies know how to migrate thousands of miles
>every year. They've never really known - but now have evidence that they know
>which way to fly based on the location of the sun. And they came up with an
>ingenious way to study the butterflies, too, by tethering them so that they
>think they are going somewher, but really don't, and putting a little teensy
>sensor on them so they can keep track of which direction they are flying.
>However, they still don't know at all how the butterflies know how to go back
>to the same exact spots along the migration route.

Apparently salmon know how to navigate back to the stream where they
hatched by the stars. To study that, the salmon were put in big pools and
star maps were projected on the ceiling. They watched which way the fish
swam when they changed the map.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/25/2002 9:56:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
amycats2@... writes:


> The article mentioned that
> spiders make both sticky and non-sticky threads and usually know where to
> walk, but accidents happen, and spiders can ooze a stick-proof oil from
> glands around their mouths which they rub on their feet. I found it really
> interesting!

I think (although it is already growing more remote in my brain <G>) that the
scientific american article said that it "was thought" that these might be
how spiders do it - and that maybe some species do - but that the evidence
shows that, in fact, spiders run all OVER their webs, not just on certain
threads and that nobody has ever actually been able to show that they secrete
any kind of substance. They said it was conjecture.

The most interesting thing about science, to me, is what is not known - those
are the things I like to talk about with kids.

-pam
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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In a message dated 7/25/2002 10:55:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
leschke@... writes:


> Apparently salmon know how to navigate back to the stream where they
> hatched by the stars. To study that, the salmon were put in big pools and
> star maps were projected on the ceiling. They watched which way the fish
> swam when they changed the map.

Zowie - is that cool or WHAT??? Stargazing salmon!!!

--pam

National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Louise Rynkewicz

Thanks Debbie,
I'm interested in any info concerning this issue so I appreciate your input and will definately look up the links.
Thanks again,
Louise.
--

On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:33:37
Lewis wrote:
>Louise,
>
>Our family is too new to unschooling to give any advice.
>
>However, regarding vision, we are quite well informed. Our three sons all
>have glasses for varying reasons. Our younges is legally blind without
>glasses, and 20/60 with them, he has extreme astigmatism and a crossed eye
>and wears thick bi-focal glasses. Our middle guy is not so bad, and our
>oldest has bi-focals with a very weak prescription.
>
>Anyway, we have discovered Vision Therapy, and it has done wonders for our
>children. Vision Therapy is not only for children with extreme vision
>problems such as our youngest two. They use VT to treat ADD, and similar
>problems. There is great information on the internet.
>
>One good source is www.alderwoodvisiontherapy.com and www.visiontherapy.org.
>There are other great sites as well. www.children-special-needs.org.
>
>You may or may not be interested in the subject, but since you mentioned it,
>I thought I would share.
>
>Debbie
>
>
>


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Louise Rynkewicz

Thanks everyone,

I appreciate all the responses to my original questions. They have definately helped me navigate toward my goal. Now all I need is to hit the delete button and remove all memories of my public schooling and a renewable prescription for CONFIDENCE!
Louise.
--

On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:16:35
Cheryl wrote:
>Most of these concepts can arise in the normal questions children ask, for
>example,
>
>>formulas for calculating the circumference of a circle,
>
>How do the gears on a bicycle work?
>
>>Pythagoras
>
>How long does a piece of wood needs to be to brace the corner of woodwork
>project?
>
>>Higher Trig functions,
>
>Basic Trig can be covered in discussions about how ships navigate or how to
>work out how tall a buliding is. I can't think of how Higher Trig could be
>brought up in the course of a normal conversation.
>
>>calculus,
>Another difficult one for normal conversation.
>
>>physics functions etc?
>
>Discussing the way the physical world works, e.g. gravity, friction,
>acceleration etc.
>
>>Do I just have to leave this until he picks them up himself - I think I'm
>scared to do that.
>
>I don't see any problem with introducing concepts to children that they
>would not have thought up on their own. Often children don't know enough to
>be able to ask questions. I have no hesitation asking questions to
>stimulate a particular line of thought. A good one is, "Why do you think
>that happened?".
>
>>He likes math and science and these higher functions are going to be
>important to be able to >manipulate the concepts that he already
>understands.
>
>If, in fact, it is true that he will need "these higher functions" isn't it
>better that the understanding be a natural outcome of his exploration and
>desire to manipulate the concepts rather than abstract concepts learned
>because some book says you ought to know it?
>
>I have serious doubts about the value of learning much of the higher math
>amongst other things taught in school. If I or my husband, who is an
>engineer, cannot demonstrate to our daughter how we use a particular
>mathematical concept we are uncomfortable about insisting she learn it. We
>are confident that should she need to demonstrate her knowledge of math
>concepts or anything else in order to obtain entry to university, she will
>be motivated to study them.
>
>None of us know exactly what academic skills our children are going to need
>to be employable. Possibly up to 50% of the potential jobs have yet to be
>invented. There is no way you can possibly cover all possibilities.
>Schools do not have any "inside knowledge" on what children need to know.
>Just because school tries to teach particular concepts does not
>automatically mean the information is worth knowing. Keep in mind that we
>all have gaps in our knowledge and spend all our lives filling in the holes
>we consider useful to fill. Unschooling is a wonderful way to encourage
>children to have confidence in their ability to fill of those holes at any
>time in their life without having to rely on someone else teaching them.
>
>Trust in your ability to guide your children. You know what basic skills we
>all require to function effectively as adults in our society. Children tend
>to learn most of it through a desire to imitate the adults around them.
>Make an effort to surround your family with interesting people and
>activities, punctuated liberally with time for reflection and learning just
>happens.
>
>Hugs,
>Cheryl
>
>


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chris caravalho

Thank you so much for your response to my question
regarding how did YOU become confident enough to
differentiate between your child not being ready to
read yet vs. a LD!! I am printing it and will re-read
it often!


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You're welcome and thanks for the feedback.

-=-Thank you so much for your response to my question
regarding how did YOU become confident enough to
differentiate between your child not being ready to
read yet vs. a LD!! I am printing it and will re-read
it often! -=-

Could you fix the typos then, please?

-=-They're very small bodoes of trivia-=-

bodies

And there was another one, further up...

Sandra