Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2147
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/6/2002 6:06:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
say we use an "unschooling curriculum" and it drives her crazy when I say we
don't use any curriculum. She thinks it sounds like we "don't do anything."
She doesn't like me to say "I don't teach" the kids, either. I think it is
important to say it because it is what makes unschooling different than
schooling. It is HARD for people to change the way they think about learning
and it is EASIER if we are really really clear and precise in the language we
use to talk about what we do (or don't do).
This whole discussion makes me think about Linda Dobson talking about how she
took her little boy to the pharmacy with her - he's grown up now and that was
way back when homeschooling was unheard of and she was worried about him
being out during school hours. A nice older woman asked him, "Why aren't you
in school today?" He answered gleefully, but to his mother's great dismay,
"My mom learns me at home!!!"
I got the third degree from some visitors we have from out of town - old
school chums of my husband's, mostly the husband. He'd apparently decided we
must be doing this because there is something wrong with the kids, but then
he MET them and couldn't reconcile the reality with his expectation that they
were "slow" or something <G>. After about 2 hours of grilling and him shaking
his head and basically not believing me that they "just learn because that's
what they do", I got tired of it and resorted to spouting numbers at him --
how homeschoolers test in the 80th percentile, etc. It was the wimpy way out
- but I could tell that THAT would shut him up and that's all I cared about
by that time <G>. He liked the idea of homeschooling - thinks the schools are
WAY too lenient and don't ask enough of the kids - ought to be much more
rigorously demanding academically and discipline the kids much more harshly.
I spent some time talking about math with his 12 yo - he is in the gifted
math program at his middle school. He was the absolute EPITOME of what I
expect from accelerated math programs - he had absolutely no ability to do
anything with any of the math techniques he had memorized. He could work
problems if they were given to him in the usual textbook out-of-context
format - but couldn't hold a conversation about them or follow what I was
doing if I used them to explain something. For example, I drew a graph
relating the price of skateboards and the number of skateboards sold by a
skate shop and he was confused because I hadn't used X and Y to label the
axes of the graph. When I explained and he got it he said, "So this is sort
of like a line graph right?" I said, "Yes, it IS a line graph," and he said,
"I know how to do that, you find the slope." As if that was the point of it.
Absolutely no comprehension of any meaning of what he was doing. Zero.
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> If unschooling is a lifestyle that is meant to counter theMy mother (who is 72 and has been a classroom teacher forever) wants me to
> "pre-packaged life" that social mores dictate we follow, each and
> every one of us will find the words, the styles and the rituals that
> will define our new lifestyle.
say we use an "unschooling curriculum" and it drives her crazy when I say we
don't use any curriculum. She thinks it sounds like we "don't do anything."
She doesn't like me to say "I don't teach" the kids, either. I think it is
important to say it because it is what makes unschooling different than
schooling. It is HARD for people to change the way they think about learning
and it is EASIER if we are really really clear and precise in the language we
use to talk about what we do (or don't do).
This whole discussion makes me think about Linda Dobson talking about how she
took her little boy to the pharmacy with her - he's grown up now and that was
way back when homeschooling was unheard of and she was worried about him
being out during school hours. A nice older woman asked him, "Why aren't you
in school today?" He answered gleefully, but to his mother's great dismay,
"My mom learns me at home!!!"
I got the third degree from some visitors we have from out of town - old
school chums of my husband's, mostly the husband. He'd apparently decided we
must be doing this because there is something wrong with the kids, but then
he MET them and couldn't reconcile the reality with his expectation that they
were "slow" or something <G>. After about 2 hours of grilling and him shaking
his head and basically not believing me that they "just learn because that's
what they do", I got tired of it and resorted to spouting numbers at him --
how homeschoolers test in the 80th percentile, etc. It was the wimpy way out
- but I could tell that THAT would shut him up and that's all I cared about
by that time <G>. He liked the idea of homeschooling - thinks the schools are
WAY too lenient and don't ask enough of the kids - ought to be much more
rigorously demanding academically and discipline the kids much more harshly.
I spent some time talking about math with his 12 yo - he is in the gifted
math program at his middle school. He was the absolute EPITOME of what I
expect from accelerated math programs - he had absolutely no ability to do
anything with any of the math techniques he had memorized. He could work
problems if they were given to him in the usual textbook out-of-context
format - but couldn't hold a conversation about them or follow what I was
doing if I used them to explain something. For example, I drew a graph
relating the price of skateboards and the number of skateboards sold by a
skate shop and he was confused because I hadn't used X and Y to label the
axes of the graph. When I explained and he got it he said, "So this is sort
of like a line graph right?" I said, "Yes, it IS a line graph," and he said,
"I know how to do that, you find the slope." As if that was the point of it.
Absolutely no comprehension of any meaning of what he was doing. Zero.
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/6/2002 6:06:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
say what they mean, then what they say means something <G>.
If you talk about teaching your children or your children teaching
themselves, there is still that concept of someone having something done to
them or doing something to themselves. It shows that you're thinking of
learning as something "done to" someone. That's different than thinking of
learning as something that someone does. It is a small little word change,
"done to" as opposed to "does." But it signifies a different perspective.
Sandra's point is that it is helpful to unschooling parents to try to think
of learning as something we all just do - not "to" ourselves or someone else.
Maybe you could try reserving "they teach themselves" for times when they
purposely set out to systematically learn something. I bought a book and
purposely learned guitar chords - you could say I taught myself guitar. But
MOST of what kids are learning isn't that kind of purposeful systematic
self-education and to refer to it as them "teaching" themselves makes me
think that that is what they're doing.
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> What I am trying to articulate here is that issues ofI doubt it, really. Unless someone doesn't speak the language well enough to
> semantics have more to do with a person's background and experience
> in "un-" or "homeschooling" and less with their ability to perform as
> caring and committed parents.
say what they mean, then what they say means something <G>.
If you talk about teaching your children or your children teaching
themselves, there is still that concept of someone having something done to
them or doing something to themselves. It shows that you're thinking of
learning as something "done to" someone. That's different than thinking of
learning as something that someone does. It is a small little word change,
"done to" as opposed to "does." But it signifies a different perspective.
Sandra's point is that it is helpful to unschooling parents to try to think
of learning as something we all just do - not "to" ourselves or someone else.
Maybe you could try reserving "they teach themselves" for times when they
purposely set out to systematically learn something. I bought a book and
purposely learned guitar chords - you could say I taught myself guitar. But
MOST of what kids are learning isn't that kind of purposeful systematic
self-education and to refer to it as them "teaching" themselves makes me
think that that is what they're doing.
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
The dictionary definitions of "to teach" as compared to "to learn" are
interesting - these are from the AOL online dictionary.
TEACH:
1 a : to cause to know something <taught them a trade> b : to cause to know
how <is teaching me to drive> c : to accustom to some action or attitude <
teach students to think for themselves> d : to cause to know the disagreeable
consequences of some action <I'll teach you to come home late>
2 : to guide the studies of
3 : to impart the knowledge of <teach algebra>
4 a : to instruct by precept, example, or experience b : to make known and
accepted <experience teaches us our limitations>
5 : to conduct instruction regularly in <teach school>
intransitive senses
: to provide instruction : act as a teacher
LEARN:
1 a (1) : to gain knowledge or understanding of or skill in by study,
instruction, or experience <learn a trade> (2) : <A HREF="aol://4344:1708.D0042700.40150734.672503328">MEMORIZE</A> <learn the lines of
a play> b : to come to be able <learn to dance> c : to come to realize <
learned that honesty paid>
2 a : nonstandard : <A HREF="aol://4344:1708.D0070508.40178545.672606131">TEACH</A> b : obsolete : to inform of something
3 : to come to know : <A HREF="aol://4344:1708.D0031512.40139546.672503066">HEAR</A> <we just learned that he was ill>
intransitive senses
: to acquire knowledge or skill or a behavioral tendency
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
interesting - these are from the AOL online dictionary.
TEACH:
1 a : to cause to know something <taught them a trade> b : to cause to know
how <is teaching me to drive> c : to accustom to some action or attitude <
teach students to think for themselves> d : to cause to know the disagreeable
consequences of some action <I'll teach you to come home late>
2 : to guide the studies of
3 : to impart the knowledge of <teach algebra>
4 a : to instruct by precept, example, or experience b : to make known and
accepted <experience teaches us our limitations>
5 : to conduct instruction regularly in <teach school>
intransitive senses
: to provide instruction : act as a teacher
LEARN:
1 a (1) : to gain knowledge or understanding of or skill in by study,
instruction, or experience <learn a trade> (2) : <A HREF="aol://4344:1708.D0042700.40150734.672503328">MEMORIZE</A> <learn the lines of
a play> b : to come to be able <learn to dance> c : to come to realize <
learned that honesty paid>
2 a : nonstandard : <A HREF="aol://4344:1708.D0070508.40178545.672606131">TEACH</A> b : obsolete : to inform of something
3 : to come to know : <A HREF="aol://4344:1708.D0031512.40139546.672503066">HEAR</A> <we just learned that he was ill>
intransitive senses
: to acquire knowledge or skill or a behavioral tendency
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]