kayb85

I am a Christian and my beliefs are still what many would call
fundamentalist. However, I do not believe in the institutional
church or organized religion. For those who don't want to turn their
backs on Christ but see all the hypocracy in churches, you might want
to check out some home church sites:
http://www.home-church.org/
http://www.hccentral.com/
http://www.homechurch.com/

Sheila


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> the newer (not as pretty; bummer) website address:
>
>
> http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=319472

Cheryl Duke

Sheila,
Thank you for the links. We did find a church we loved in San Antonio when
we were there. It was a UU church so technically it wasn't "christian" but
it was so down to earth and we enjoyed being there. We attended a lecture
given by John Shelby Spong. He wrote the book Christianity Must Change or
Die. If you haven't read it, you might find it very interesting. He refers
to people like us as "believers in exile."

Cheryl

----- Original Message -----

From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
> http://www.home-church.org/
> http://www.hccentral.com/
> http://www.homechurch.com/

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/30/02 12:16:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
cheryl@... writes:


> Sheila,
> Thank you for the links. We did find a church we loved in San Antonio when
> we were there. It was a UU church so technically it wasn't "christian" but
> it was so down to earth and we enjoyed being there. We attended a lecture
> given by John Shelby Spong. He wrote the book Christianity Must Change or
> Die. If you haven't read it, you might find it very interesting. He refers
> to people like us as "believers in exile."
>
> Cheryl
>

I am wondering... Why isn't the UU church Christian? Because they accept
every one? Isn't that a basic tenant of Christianity? I have always wondered
this, why aren't the Catholic, Mormon and other churches considered
Christian, by other Christian denominations? They consider themselves
Christian. I just don't get this whole *I'm a Christian, but they aren't
because they are ____! I don't care if they call themselves Christian, their
not!* attitude. There are different levels (for lack of a better word) of the
Jewish faith, and although the different sects may think their way is the
right way, they don't go around saying others aren't Jewish. I am sure the
Hasidic Jews think at least the other Jewish people are practicing their
faith, not well they don't wear their hair the right way so they aren't
Jewish. (I could be waaayyy wrong here! ;o) it has been known to happen.) My
point is, why can't a Baptist be as much a Christian as a Catholic or a
Methodist or an Evangelical Lutheran or any other myriad of churches? What is
the big difference???
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cheryl Duke

> I am wondering... Why isn't the UU church Christian? Because they accept
> every one?

I made the distinction because within the UU community that particular
distinction has been developing. There are UU churches that consider
themselves *christian* and cater to an almost exclusive christian
congregation. There is a UU church here in the dfw metroplex that considers
itself a *pagan* UU church and so their congregation is almost exclusively
pagan. There are UU churches like the one in San Antonio that are tolerant
of *all* ways and welcome everyone and there are those that welcome everyone
*except* mainstream christians because their congregation is so full of
wounded former christians. The UU church has it's roots in the Christian
church. I fyou are intersted this link is an article about the origins of
UU: http://www.uua.org/info/origins.html

>Isn't that a basic tenant of Christianity?

That greatly depends on who you ask!

I have always wondered
> this, why aren't the Catholic, Mormon and other churches considered
> Christian, by other Christian denominations? They consider themselves
> Christian. I just don't get this whole *I'm a Christian, but they aren't
> because they are ____! I don't care if they call themselves Christian,
their
> not!* attitude.

I suppose many people categorize things different ways. As far as I am
concerned they are all christian religions but I am sure lots of people
would disagree with me.

There are different levels (for lack of a better word) of the
> Jewish faith, and although the different sects may think their way is the
> right way, they don't go around saying others aren't Jewish. I am sure the
> Hasidic Jews think at least the other Jewish people are practicing their
> faith, not well they don't wear their hair the right way so they aren't
> Jewish. (I could be waaayyy wrong here! ;o) it has been known to happen.)
My
> point is, why can't a Baptist be as much a Christian as a Catholic or a
> Methodist or an Evangelical Lutheran or any other myriad of churches? What
is
> the big difference???

Saying "I am right and they are wrong" is just one way of avoiding working
out the inconsistencies between denominations.

Cheryl

Fetteroll

on 6/30/02 2:14 PM, Dnowens@... at Dnowens@... wrote:

> Why isn't the UU church Christian? Because they accept
> every one?

Because it isn't Christian. There is no body of religious doctrine with UUs.
There is a common set of principles about humanity but it's a bring your own
god (or not) deal with any higher powers. So being called not Christian is
perfectly fine with UUs. :-)

> My
> point is, why can't a Baptist be as much a Christian as a Catholic or a
> Methodist or an Evangelical Lutheran or any other myriad of churches? What is
> the big difference???

It depends on the denomination. Mainline Protestants -- Episcopalians,
Methodists, Lutherans, UCC's, Presbyterians and so on -- don't make
distinctions in the mainline faiths on who is and isn't Christian. And as
far as I know the mainline Protestants were officially okay with the
Catholics being Christian ;-)

At one time the Catholics were anti-Protestant but that rift's been
repaired. (Vatican II in the 60's maybe?) (Catholics have told me they
weren't allowed to even enter a Protestant church as a kid.) In fact the
Catholics and Episcopalians are getting really chummy!

Mormons do have an entirely separate book (or books?) of beliefs involving
another Prophet. From a mainline point of view it's hard to see very
significant additions to Christianity as Christian. But from a Mormon point
of view it's just Christianity plus ;-)

For the fundamentalists it's about who is and isn't going to heaven and a
battle between God and the Devil. If you've accepted Jesus Christ as your
personal Savior you're Christian and going to heaven. If you haven't, then
you aren't and are in need of saving. In practice it gets way more complex
than that because the Devil can be subtle and lead people down what appear
to be Christain paths which aren't really. So "true" Christians need to be
able to recognize true doctrine from false, eg, interpretting the Bible the
"right" way, thinking the "right" way, behaving the "right" way. So in
theory for fundamentalists what church someone attends doesn't dictate
whether they're Christian or not. Their Christianity is in their personal
relationship with Jesus. In practice, in order to avoid being led astray and
avoid exposing children to false teachings, the requirements are a lot more
strict. So the fundamentalists are really just trying to protect people's
souls by pointing out who is and isn't Christian. Sort of the Consumer
Reports of the True Christian faith ;-) (I'm teasing partly but not totally.
And if I'm off a bit, others will help by clarifying!)

Joyce

[email protected]

UU? unitarian universalist? that's the church i grew up in.. on the hill.. by the expressway..
small world.. as always..
L
----- Original Message -----
From: Cheryl Duke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Walk Away


Sheila,
Thank you for the links. We did find a church we loved in San Antonio when
we were there. It was a UU church so technically it wasn't "christian" but
it was so down to earth and we enjoyed being there. We attended a lecture
given by John Shelby Spong. He wrote the book Christianity Must Change or
Die. If you haven't read it, you might find it very interesting. He refers
to people like us as "believers in exile."

Cheryl




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

no.. UUs are not christain.. they teach no dogma of their own.. they include many people with varied belief systems.. or none at all ( i was a devout athiest when i was a child attending that church)..they have an organized pagan segment of the church as well...

L
----- Original Message -----
From: Dnowens@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Walk Away


In a message dated 6/30/02 12:16:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
cheryl@... writes:




I am wondering... Why isn't the UU church Christian? Because they accept
every one? Isn't that a basic tenant of Christianity? I have always wondered
this, why aren't the Catholic, Mormon and other churches considered
Christian, by other Christian denominations? They consider themselves
Christian. I just don't get this whole *I'm a Christian, but they aren't
because they are ____! I don't care if they call themselves Christian, their
not!* attitude. There are different levels (for lack of a better word) of the
Jewish faith, and although the different sects may think their way is the
right way, they don't go around saying others aren't Jewish. I am sure the
Hasidic Jews think at least the other Jewish people are practicing their
faith, not well they don't wear their hair the right way so they aren't
Jewish. (I could be waaayyy wrong here! ;o) it has been known to happen.) My
point is, why can't a Baptist be as much a Christian as a Catholic or a
Methodist or an Evangelical Lutheran or any other myriad of churches? What is
the big difference???
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

you are right.. i forgot about the origens of the church. it did start out christian. i just always think of the one here and my experiences with it.. you know UU started in Transylvania.... lol.. i always thought that was cool.. it was the first christian church to adhear to ONE god rather than the trinity.. hence unitarian..

and up north there are a LOT more UU churches.. and i am sure there are many that specialize as you mentioned.. that's pretty cool.. also alwasy thought it was cool that thomas jefferson and other of the founding fathers were unitarians..

L
----- Original Message -----
From: Cheryl Duke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Walk Away


> I am wondering... Why isn't the UU church Christian? Because they accept
> every one?

I made the distinction because within the UU community that particular
distinction has been developing. There are UU churches that consider
themselves *christian* and cater to an almost exclusive christian
congregation. There is a UU church here in the dfw metroplex that considers
itself a *pagan* UU church and so their congregation is almost exclusively
pagan. There are UU churches like the one in San Antonio that are tolerant
of *all* ways and welcome everyone and there are those that welcome everyone
*except* mainstream christians because their congregation is so full of
wounded former christians. The UU church has it's roots in the Christian
church. I fyou are intersted this link is an article about the origins of
UU: http://www.uua.org/info/origins.html

>Isn't that a basic tenant of Christianity?

That greatly depends on who you ask!

I have always wondered
> this, why aren't the Catholic, Mormon and other churches considered
> Christian, by other Christian denominations? They consider themselves
> Christian. I just don't get this whole *I'm a Christian, but they aren't
> because they are ____! I don't care if they call themselves Christian,
their
> not!* attitude.

I suppose many people categorize things different ways. As far as I am
concerned they are all christian religions but I am sure lots of people
would disagree with me.

There are different levels (for lack of a better word) of the
> Jewish faith, and although the different sects may think their way is the
> right way, they don't go around saying others aren't Jewish. I am sure the
> Hasidic Jews think at least the other Jewish people are practicing their
> faith, not well they don't wear their hair the right way so they aren't
> Jewish. (I could be waaayyy wrong here! ;o) it has been known to happen.)
My
> point is, why can't a Baptist be as much a Christian as a Catholic or a
> Methodist or an Evangelical Lutheran or any other myriad of churches? What
is
> the big difference???

Saying "I am right and they are wrong" is just one way of avoiding working
out the inconsistencies between denominations.

Cheryl


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Liza Sabater

>I am sure the
>Hasidic Jews think at least the other Jewish people are practicing their
>faith,

<liza= delurk>

No, they don't. they think theirs is the true judaism. they do not
even think orthodox jews are as holy as they are!

</liza= delurk>

<liza= lurk>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Kattler

The original poster was asking about religious sects that do
not view others as part of their religion. I think that
Hasidic Jews do not claim that other Jews are not Jewish.
They do believe that Judaism is matrilineal (so someone born
to a Jewish man and a not Jewish woman would not be
considered a Jew by them) and they do not validate
non-Orthodox conversions to Judaism. So they would argue
that Jews by choice converted by a Reform rabbi (for
example) are not Jewish. These are points of Jewish law in
their eyes. But in my experience, they do not view Jews who
are less observant than they are, or follow other traditions
as not being Jews. Sorry if that was too many negatives in
a sentence :-)

In any case, a Hasidic Jew may (or may not) think they are
practicing true Judaism and look down their noses at less
observant Jews, but they view the "who is Jewish" according
to their interpretation of Jewish law (Halacha). And if you
are born to a Jewish mother, you are Jewish (again in their
view). Other branches of Judaism do, for example, say that
you are a Jew through the father's line as well. Anyway,
that is my understanding.

Debra


Liza Sabater wrote:

> >I am sure the
> >Hasidic Jews think at least the other Jewish people are
> practicing their
> >faith,
>
> <liza= delurk>
>
> No, they don't. they think theirs is the true judaism.
> they do not
> even think orthodox jews are as holy as they are!
>
> </liza= delurk>
>
> <liza= lurk>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this
> list, please email the Moderator, Joyce Fetteroll, at
> fetteroll@...
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

**I think that Hasidic Jews do not claim that other Jews are not Jewish...

So they would argue that Jews by choice converted by a Reform rabbi (for
example) are not Jewish. These are points of Jewish law in their eyes. But
in my experience, they do not view Jews who are less observant than they are,
or follow other traditions
as not being Jews. **

**In any case, a Hasidic Jew may (or may not) think they are practicing true
Judaism and look down their noses at less observant Jews, but they view the
"who is Jewish" according to their interpretation of Jewish law (Halacha).**

Which is no different from "who is Christian" thinking. It isn't about
"following other traditions" or level of observance - it's about how they
interpret the scripture.

Deborah in IL - agnostic