Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] A good experience and an interestingproblem
Cheryl Duke
***Is it possible to have a "we like you and value our friendship, but can
we please declare a truce on religion" sort of conversation? To agree that
you are different from each other, and leave it at that? Maybe being
politely frank would help them see that you're not interested and dislike
the religious push, rather than letting them believe that maybe, just maybe,
if they keep asking, someday they'll get you to be what they want you to be.
Changing the subject and all helps, in the short term, but for long-term
results, you maybe have to address the issue.
I believe we are to the point where something needs to be said. I am just
trying to figure out the best words I suppose. And I am sure I am
procrastinating because I am afraid they will not take it well. Maybe I am
not giving them enough credit though.
Thanks for the advice. "A truce on religion" sounds good to me. That gave
me more ideas for *words* too.
Cheryl
we please declare a truce on religion" sort of conversation? To agree that
you are different from each other, and leave it at that? Maybe being
politely frank would help them see that you're not interested and dislike
the religious push, rather than letting them believe that maybe, just maybe,
if they keep asking, someday they'll get you to be what they want you to be.
Changing the subject and all helps, in the short term, but for long-term
results, you maybe have to address the issue.
I believe we are to the point where something needs to be said. I am just
trying to figure out the best words I suppose. And I am sure I am
procrastinating because I am afraid they will not take it well. Maybe I am
not giving them enough credit though.
Thanks for the advice. "A truce on religion" sounds good to me. That gave
me more ideas for *words* too.
Cheryl
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
Lots and lots of quippy comebacks being offered, so I'll jump in
with a somewhat different perspective.
Neighbor troubles are the pits - especially if there are kids
involved. I think you are wise to do as much as possible to
avoid making the problem any worse. BUT you do need to do
something if it has gotten to the point you are this
uncomfortable.
When I have a "big" conversation coming up, I practice.
First, I identify my goal - is it to convert them to your
beliefs, to demonstrate that you are superior, to get them to
quit talking about it altogether, to get them to quit talking
about it in a way that relates to you and your family?
Second, I look at why they are doing the thing that is
bothersome. Here it can help to have a friend or spouse take
your position while you argue theirs - you may try out "I want to
talk about God to you because I am a deluded, low-brow Baptist,"
or "I want to talk about God to you because so much of my life is
tied into the Church, I really don't have any other small talk"
or "I have the most precious gift of all time, it delights me so
much I want to share it with you as part of a friendship." Which
of these or a myriad other possibilities rings truest to you as
you argue their point will tell you more about why they are
pushing religion than any "just thinking" about the why will.
Third, I look for convergence between my goal and their
motivation - trying hard to remember that I may have inadequate
information or perception to be accurate about their goal and may
need to shift ground.
Then practice making your pitch to a friend/spouse/maybe even a
kid, asking them to react as your neighbor would - then critique
how each step made each other feel. I've even done this on video
tape for clients who really had a very big pitch to make, but
just practice and de brief works wonders.
Finally (almost) decide where and how to set your stage. If they
are perhaps simply following their peer group experience of
making friends by evangelizing, you might want to invite them
over for a small social/friendly thing as part of the setting -
say a watermelon cutting or something similarly low key. If they
Then (and this is the final step) make your pitch shortly after
they enquire about the state of your soul.
Good luck!
with a somewhat different perspective.
Neighbor troubles are the pits - especially if there are kids
involved. I think you are wise to do as much as possible to
avoid making the problem any worse. BUT you do need to do
something if it has gotten to the point you are this
uncomfortable.
When I have a "big" conversation coming up, I practice.
First, I identify my goal - is it to convert them to your
beliefs, to demonstrate that you are superior, to get them to
quit talking about it altogether, to get them to quit talking
about it in a way that relates to you and your family?
Second, I look at why they are doing the thing that is
bothersome. Here it can help to have a friend or spouse take
your position while you argue theirs - you may try out "I want to
talk about God to you because I am a deluded, low-brow Baptist,"
or "I want to talk about God to you because so much of my life is
tied into the Church, I really don't have any other small talk"
or "I have the most precious gift of all time, it delights me so
much I want to share it with you as part of a friendship." Which
of these or a myriad other possibilities rings truest to you as
you argue their point will tell you more about why they are
pushing religion than any "just thinking" about the why will.
Third, I look for convergence between my goal and their
motivation - trying hard to remember that I may have inadequate
information or perception to be accurate about their goal and may
need to shift ground.
Then practice making your pitch to a friend/spouse/maybe even a
kid, asking them to react as your neighbor would - then critique
how each step made each other feel. I've even done this on video
tape for clients who really had a very big pitch to make, but
just practice and de brief works wonders.
Finally (almost) decide where and how to set your stage. If they
are perhaps simply following their peer group experience of
making friends by evangelizing, you might want to invite them
over for a small social/friendly thing as part of the setting -
say a watermelon cutting or something similarly low key. If they
Then (and this is the final step) make your pitch shortly after
they enquire about the state of your soul.
Good luck!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cheryl Duke" <cheryl@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] A good experience and an
interestingproblem
| ***Is it possible to have a "we like you and value our
friendship, but can
| we please declare a truce on religion" sort of conversation?
To agree that
| you are different from each other, and leave it at that? Maybe
being
| politely frank would help them see that you're not interested
and dislike
| the religious push, rather than letting them believe that
maybe, just maybe,
| if they keep asking, someday they'll get you to be what they
want you to be.
| Changing the subject and all helps, in the short term, but for
long-term
| results, you maybe have to address the issue.
|
| I believe we are to the point where something needs to be said.
I am just
| trying to figure out the best words I suppose. And I am sure I
am
| procrastinating because I am afraid they will not take it well.
Maybe I am
| not giving them enough credit though.
|
| Thanks for the advice. "A truce on religion" sounds good to
me. That gave
| me more ideas for *words* too.
|
| Cheryl
|
|
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[email protected]
In a message dated 6/29/02 12:33:28 PM, dcannon@... writes:
<< or "I have the most precious gift of all time, it delights me so
much I want to share it with you as part of a friendship." Which
of these or a myriad other possibilities rings truest to you as
you argue their point will tell you more about why... >>
One thing about Baptists and Mormons, though. It is their duty to try to
convert you. They do it by having strong families and hoping you'll ask what
it is that makes their family so happy, so they can say "I'm glad you asked
that question!"
But along with their duty comes a shut-off point. Especially with Mormons,
but somewhat with Baptists, if you reject the message they are no longer
under obligation to be your friend or impress you. And in strictest
interpretation of that, they might feel the need to cut off communication as
you might then be a danger to their kids or families. Or at best a waste of
their time.
I realize there can be real, true friendships in which the people will pay no
mind to the technicalities of their obligations. But *IF* the friendship is
based in any part on their proslytizing duties, beware of a "Really, I'm not
interested and will not GET interested" speech.
If you want the friendship to last longer, decide whether it's worth keeping
the slightest, most formal/technical possibility open that you might consider
thinking about converting later on. If you do, they can continue to set a
good example for you and invite you to church once in a while, and then you
can keep the friendship a long time.
Sandra
<< or "I have the most precious gift of all time, it delights me so
much I want to share it with you as part of a friendship." Which
of these or a myriad other possibilities rings truest to you as
you argue their point will tell you more about why... >>
One thing about Baptists and Mormons, though. It is their duty to try to
convert you. They do it by having strong families and hoping you'll ask what
it is that makes their family so happy, so they can say "I'm glad you asked
that question!"
But along with their duty comes a shut-off point. Especially with Mormons,
but somewhat with Baptists, if you reject the message they are no longer
under obligation to be your friend or impress you. And in strictest
interpretation of that, they might feel the need to cut off communication as
you might then be a danger to their kids or families. Or at best a waste of
their time.
I realize there can be real, true friendships in which the people will pay no
mind to the technicalities of their obligations. But *IF* the friendship is
based in any part on their proslytizing duties, beware of a "Really, I'm not
interested and will not GET interested" speech.
If you want the friendship to last longer, decide whether it's worth keeping
the slightest, most formal/technical possibility open that you might consider
thinking about converting later on. If you do, they can continue to set a
good example for you and invite you to church once in a while, and then you
can keep the friendship a long time.
Sandra
Cheryl Duke
> First, I identify my goalThis is very helpful, thank you. I think their intentions are generally
> Second, I look at why they are doing the thing that is
> bothersome.
> Third, I look for convergence between my goal and their
> motivation - trying hard to remember that I may have inadequate
> information or perception to be accurate about their goal and may
> need to shift ground.
> Finally (almost) decide where and how to set your stage.
> Then (and this is the final step) make your pitch shortly after
> they enquire about the state of your soul.
good, although I also think they see us as potentially useful in several
ways. The most difficult part for me is keeping my emotions in check and
remaining objective. It amazes me that after 12 years this still feels so
raw. I will have to keep reminding myself to breath.
Cheryl