Alicia Knight

Sounds like you have very pushy neighbors. It's none of their beeswax
what you do in your own home. You just continue to do things your way
for your kids. If their kids ask them about why they do things their
way it's up to them to deal with it. It's not your job.

They're probably trying to be helpful eventhough their doing it like
lunkheads. So treat them like lunkheads. You don't need to be
unpleasant -- just firm. Put on your tightest little smile and say over
and over like a mantra, "We already have a homeschooling group that
we're quite happy with. Thanks anyway." Just keep repeating until they
get it. Then start chirping about how much you love what they've done
to their yard, how cute their little daughters are and how much you
enjoy having them come and visit, yadda, yadda.

Among other things, I advise political candidates on how to deal with
the media. When they get a persistent questioner, I tell them to use
the same technique. You don't have to answer to phone just because the
bell rings.

Good luck!
Alicia

Cheryl Duke wrote:

> I received The Unschooling Handbook in the mail today and my son
> watched me open it with that look on his face like "oh no, she got me
> another school book!" Well, I opened it up and he looked confused
> so I explained a little to him about what unschooling was. I told him
> that from now on he can decide what he wants to "learn" about, that
> all I was going to do was answer his questions or help him find the
> answers, provide him with whatever he needed, take him where he wanted
> to go or find people who could help him. He got a big smile on his
> face and started telling me all kinds of things he wanted to do -
> mostly science experiments. I must admit that I have avoided those,
> which is probably one reason he wants to do them. I used to love
> science too, until I went to college and had all the wonder and
> excitment schooled out of me. But, since I am no longer "the teacher"
> I don't have to actually *do* the! m. I just have to take him to the
> store (or wherever) with his list and get him his materials. I can
> handle that!
>
> On the other hand.....I have these neighbors.....
>
> Their girls (11 and 13) practically live at our house and they
> constantly ask why does C (9) get to do that? Why doesn't he have to
> do this? Why don't you *let* him go to school? Why don't you *make*
> him go to church? Why don't you *make* M sit on the potty till she
> goes (she's almost 3 and not at all interested in potty training). I
> can see it coming. Their parents are hard-line fundamental Southern
> Baptists. We are.... hmmmm I guess if we need a label for the sake of
> understanding where I'm coming from, we would be closest to Unitarian
> Universalists...with pagan interests. We're not in SCA (I am looking
> into it) but we do attend a LOT of renaissance/medieval festivals so
> our house is full of "cool" stuff. Lately I have overheard them
> questioning their parents about why they have to go to school and
> church along with everything else we do differently than they do.
>
> The mom is already giving me phone numbers for women at her church who
> homeschool so I can *get into* their program. I explained to her that
> we are already involved with a local homeschool group but they are
> non-religious. We used to use a curriculum from Oak Meadow, I have
> NOT told her I stopped using it. She keeps mentioning the curriculum
> the church group uses. I keep explaining to her that I don't
> homeschool for religious reasons. I homeschool because that is what
> my son wants to do.... They are also constantly inviting us to church
> and I keep politely saying no thank you.
>
> What I guess it is coming down to is I'm not sure how to get them to
> back off without pissing them off and having them forbid their girls
> from coming here. Our kids like to hang out together and I don't want
> to ruin it for them. Their parents are already stretching just to
> allow them in my house with all the other kids on our street (my house
> seems to be the hangout for all the kids). Any ideas? I am starting
> to think it is hopeless but I refuse to start going to a church I have
> no desire to go to, nor am I about to force *my* children to go to
> maintain a relationship.
>
> thanks,
> cheryl
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the Moderator, Joyce Fetteroll, at fetteroll@...
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cheryl Duke

I received The Unschooling Handbook in the mail today and my son watched me open it with that look on his face like "oh no, she got me another school book!" Well, I opened it up and he looked confused so I explained a little to him about what unschooling was. I told him that from now on he can decide what he wants to "learn" about, that all I was going to do was answer his questions or help him find the answers, provide him with whatever he needed, take him where he wanted to go or find people who could help him. He got a big smile on his face and started telling me all kinds of things he wanted to do - mostly science experiments. I must admit that I have avoided those, which is probably one reason he wants to do them. I used to love science too, until I went to college and had all the wonder and excitment schooled out of me. But, since I am no longer "the teacher" I don't have to actually *do* them. I just have to take him to the store (or wherever) with his list and get him his materials. I can handle that!

On the other hand.....I have these neighbors.....

Their girls (11 and 13) practically live at our house and they constantly ask why does C (9) get to do that? Why doesn't he have to do this? Why don't you *let* him go to school? Why don't you *make* him go to church? Why don't you *make* M sit on the potty till she goes (she's almost 3 and not at all interested in potty training). I can see it coming. Their parents are hard-line fundamental Southern Baptists. We are.... hmmmm I guess if we need a label for the sake of understanding where I'm coming from, we would be closest to Unitarian Universalists...with pagan interests. We're not in SCA (I am looking into it) but we do attend a LOT of renaissance/medieval festivals so our house is full of "cool" stuff. Lately I have overheard them questioning their parents about why they have to go to school and church along with everything else we do differently than they do.

The mom is already giving me phone numbers for women at her church who homeschool so I can *get into* their program. I explained to her that we are already involved with a local homeschool group but they are non-religious. We used to use a curriculum from Oak Meadow, I have NOT told her I stopped using it. She keeps mentioning the curriculum the church group uses. I keep explaining to her that I don't homeschool for religious reasons. I homeschool because that is what my son wants to do.... They are also constantly inviting us to church and I keep politely saying no thank you.

What I guess it is coming down to is I'm not sure how to get them to back off without pissing them off and having them forbid their girls from coming here. Our kids like to hang out together and I don't want to ruin it for them. Their parents are already stretching just to allow them in my house with all the other kids on our street (my house seems to be the hangout for all the kids). Any ideas? I am starting to think it is hopeless but I refuse to start going to a church I have no desire to go to, nor am I about to force *my* children to go to maintain a relationship.

thanks,
cheryl

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cheryl Duke

> They're probably trying to be helpful eventhough their doing it like
> lunkheads. So treat them like lunkheads. You don't need to be
> unpleasant -- just firm. Put on your tightest little smile and say over
> and over like a mantra, "We already have a homeschooling group that
> we're quite happy with. Thanks anyway." Just keep repeating until they
> get it. Then start chirping about how much you love what they've done
> to their yard, how cute their little daughters are and how much you
> enjoy having them come and visit, yadda, yadda.

LOL...I have been wondering if I was speaking another language whenever I
said that! I will continue to do so and I think it's a good idea to
compliment them a lot on their kids. I get the impression that a little
flattery will probably go a long way with them. At least I hope so. We seem
to have made an impression on their girls with our lifestyle as they have
made an impression on our kids with theirs. My son has become good at that
tight lipped smile when he says, no thanks, I really don't *want* to go to
church with you. They have their kids asking us now too. I think the kids
are afraid we will all go to hell or something....then where would they go?

thanks - Cheryl

Lewis

Cheryl,

We have a similar problem as yours, but it is not a next door neighbor but a
friend. They keep asking us to join their fundamentalist homeschooling
group. I have said "no" several times, and they keep asking. I just
continue to be polite, saying no and go on. My latest description or our
"religion" is spiritual agnostic. (this week anyway). I had to add the
spiritual only because I LOVE my tarot cards!!! he he he!

We also have kids asking why our kids don't go to school, or church, and I
say that every family has their different ways of doing things, and noone is
wrong. We also go through it with the fact that we do not do anything dairy
(as a choice). And, we have a few other alternative food habits that some
of the boys friends think is strange. Our boys are fine with it, and just
go back to playing after answering questions.

We have a lot of pressure from friends wanting our kids to go to VBS this
summer. There seems to be one every week of summer. Last year, we gave in,
and the kids went to one with friends and had a blast. Our only problem is
all the songs they learned, and all the stuff they came home with. We just
told them that is how some people believe, but there are many other ways.
This year, they have all expressed that they do not want to go to VBS. I am
happy with that. They are going to a young naturalist day camp, and an
acting day camp instead.

Debbie

Cheryl Duke

> We have a similar problem as yours, but it is not a next door neighbor but
a
> friend. They keep asking us to join their fundamentalist homeschooling
> group. I have said "no" several times, and they keep asking. I just
> continue to be polite, saying no and go on. My latest description or our
> "religion" is spiritual agnostic. (this week anyway). I had to add the
> spiritual only because I LOVE my tarot cards!!! he he he!

I have a hard time labelling us as any religion. We are interested in all
of them in an intellectual way. Not to say that we have no spiritual side
but I know I am *definately* not southern baptist in any way.

> We also have kids asking why our kids don't go to school, or church, and I
> say that every family has their different ways of doing things, and noone
is
> wrong. We also go through it with the fact that we do not do anything
dairy
> (as a choice). And, we have a few other alternative food habits that some
> of the boys friends think is strange. Our boys are fine with it, and
just
> go back to playing after answering questions.

I have explained that too but that answer doesn't make them happy because
our kids have way more freedom than they do. Our kids get to choose how to
decorate their rooms, what to wear, what to eat (from what we have here),
what to learn and my son gets to ride further on his bike than they do. At
11 and 13 they are still only allowed to go the end of the street and it is
only 6 houses long.

> We have a lot of pressure from friends wanting our kids to go to VBS this
> summer. There seems to be one every week of summer. Last year, we gave
in,
> and the kids went to one with friends and had a blast. Our only problem
is
> all the songs they learned, and all the stuff they came home with. We
just
> told them that is how some people believe, but there are many other ways.
> This year, they have all expressed that they do not want to go to VBS. I
am
> happy with that. They are going to a young naturalist day camp, and an
> acting day camp instead.

VBS is what started this madness. They invited C and he agreed to go. We
told him that if he went and liked it he could keep going and if he didn't
like it he did not have to go back. It was completely up to him. Well
after one day he decided that he did not want to go back. He thought the
games and crafts were fun but the rest of it was pretty dumb. He didn't say
that in front of them, he was very polite. When they came over the next day
(I"m officially watching them all summer while the parents are at work) they
were very upset that I wasn't making him go. The discussion has continued
every single morning this week like I was going to change my mind or
something. I would just look at C and ask him whether he wanted to go.
When he said no that was that. They still can't understand why he gets
choices. Today I mentioned that we had to get ready for camp tomorrow and
the first thing out of the youngest's mouth was "is it christian camp?" I
am really having to bite my tongue. It is really starting to get on my
nerves and the urge to snap back with something sarcastic is becoming
tempting. But that would just make me look bad <sigh>. So I am venting
here!

cheryl
> Debbie
>
>
>
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the Moderator, Joyce Fetteroll, at fetteroll@...
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Jean Reed

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/28/02 2:36:25 PM, superdiva@... writes:

<< It's none of their beeswax
what you do in your own home. >>

It is if their kids are there.

You can avoid having other people's kids over, but you can't have them over
and then refuse information or treat them badly or in dangerous ways. And
"danger" to Baptists comes in many demonic forms. (Hide those Harry Potter
books!)

It's my business what my neighbor across the street does IF he insists that
Holly should really come and visit. I might want to ask why the little
girl's door locks from the inside and why they don't come the second she
calls them.

Once over a year ago she and Holly got stuck in her room WITH their big
mean-for-being-too-caged Husky, and nobody was responding to their banging
and yelling.

That just happened to become my business!

Sandra

Cheryl Duke

> You can avoid having other people's kids over, but you can't have them
over
> and then refuse information or treat them badly or in dangerous ways. And
> "danger" to Baptists comes in many demonic forms. (Hide those Harry
Potter
> books!)

They actually seem ok with Harry Potter. Actually I have had to hide the
Buffy videos. They bug me to watch them every single day but the are not
allowed and so I will not let them. I try to be careful about following
their parents rules for them. I do respect their religion and the way they
parent. I try to answer all their questions in ways that won't make one way
look better than another, just different. It is difficult sometimes though
because we have fun here and they would rather spend time with us than their
own parents. We lay around and play games, we make things, we build things,
we do things, we have all kinds of cool costumes to dress up in.

Cheryl

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/28/02 4:25:08 PM, cheryl@... writes:

<< It is difficult sometimes though
because we have fun here and they would rather spend time with us than their
own parents. >>

We have a family JUST LIKE THAT. Baptist. Dad is no-nonsense. The kids
adore being over here (especially the boys, because they play video games,
and WELL, which is not available at their house). But I censor the music
that's playing and the tv and videos that are on while they're here. If they
weren't cool kids I might come to resent it, but they like being here, and
they like me and the kids, and I want to keep that vent and door open for
them for future purposes.

Sandra

Sue

Their parents are hard-line fundamental Southern Baptists. We are.... hmmmm
I guess if we need a label for the sake of understanding where I'm coming
from, we would be closest to Unitarian Universalists...with pagan
interests.

Our extended family calls us ferral <LOL>

Sue

Cheryl Duke

***If they weren't cool kids I might come to resent it, but they like being
here, and
they like me and the kids, and I want to keep that vent and door open for
them for future purposes.


That is how I feel about them too. The 13 year old girl sat down by my
husband last night while he was gaming and told him that I was her closest
friend. She talks to me and I answer her questions. I think she needs that
so I want to handle this in a way that won't make her parents feel like they
have to keep their kids away from our house.

I think they are allowed here because my husband and I came out of a very
religious background. Many years ago we were both very involved in church.
We also worked together in christian radio and in a christian bookstore. We
got burned (multiple times) and neither of us wants a repeat performance,
nor do we want to see our kids go through that crap. However, we know how
to "talk" and "act" around those people so I think they are assuming we have
not found the "right" church or something. They will figure it out soon
though.

Their youngest daughter (11) was giving my son the "you need to be saved"
routine yesterday. I heard him say "what's sin?" from the other room and I
quickly found something to do closer to them so I could hear what was going
on. I am sure she is doing this because they are baptist and that is what
they are taught to do. If you don't save your friends they are going to
burn in hell. Nice way to scare kids if you ask me and somewhat warped to
have them always fearing for their friends. I know because I was raised the
same way. It is what is making her so pushy about it, I think, so I am
trying to be kind about it all. Really though, inside I am seething about
the whole situation....probably because it hits such a raw nerve with me.

When she finished with her "presentation" I explained to C that that is what
Christians believe. He has been exposed to it before along with the basics
of other religions. There are many different beliefs held by friends and
other family members which he is beginning to notice. He looked relieved
and just said "well, I am not Christian." She looked horrified as I then
said "that's ok, you don't have to be if that's not what you want."

I think the parents are still letting them come over and are still talking
to us because we are their pet project. It would be a big deal if they
could "get us back into the fold." My husband also used to be a youth
minister. When they found out about that I felt like the vultures were
circling again. Oh the ways they could use us.....I can see the glint in
their eyes. <sigh> I hate feeling so cynical but I have been through this
way too many times to do it again. I truly just don't want to alienate good
neighbors (they really are) or my kid's friends and playmates over religion.
It is so annoying.

To those of you still reading through this, thanks for letting me vent. I
didn't realize how much I needed it until I saw how long these emails are
getting...lol.

Cheryl

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/29/02 11:21:23 AM, cheryl@... writes:

<< To those of you still reading through this, thanks for letting me vent. I
didn't realize how much I needed it until I saw how long these emails are
getting...lol. >>

I grew up Baptist too, and I totally understand.

My former-preacher uncle died in May. His very-Baptist daughters found out
in June. I would have told them sooner if they hadn't re-confirmed in
January (in responses to a letter from me) that they wanted absolutely
nothing to do with him, down to not wanting to tell him how many kids they
had these days or what their addresses were.

I suffered through a phone call June 19th. There was a follow-up letter.
I've composed a letter, and am sending copies of several of his letters to me
over the past ten years for them to have to see how things were going.

Turns out they though (I don't know why) that he had joined "the Ramtha cult"
and was under demonic influence. (I kid you not, non-Baptists here reading;
it's a quote.) *If* he ever so much as visited a Ramtha gathering, it wasn't
in the past ten years or so, because he's been telling me all kinds of stuff
he was doing, and although there was a new-age bent to it it wasn't THAT
weird.

So... In the course of summarizing what WAS true in the last dozen or so
years of his life, religion had to come up. Because all they wanted was any
glimmer of hope that he had died saved. The fact that he had a degree from
Hardin Simmons and the seminary in Dallas, had been a music director and (for
a while) a preacher matters nought to them. So Baptist "realities" were
discussed and I'm holding the letter wondering whether to send it or not.
Probably will.

And that's outside the larger stresses of homeschooling conflicts. (They're
not homeschoolers, as far as I know, but I mean homeschoolers in general in
the world.)

It's rough. I understand their fears and concerns, but the real world
outside "southern Baptistism" <g> is so much kinder and wiser and happier.

Sandra

Cheryl Duke

> Our extended family calls us ferral <LOL>


LOL...I wonder sometimes what my family says about us!

cheryl

Cheryl Duke

> I grew up Baptist too, and I totally understand.

Maybe there should be a group for de-churching and recovery. If my
neighbors were unschoolers I could just tell them I wasn't through
de-churching yet. <g>

> My former-preacher uncle died in May. His very-Baptist daughters found
out
> in June. I would have told them sooner if they hadn't re-confirmed in
> January (in responses to a letter from me) that they wanted absolutely
> nothing to do with him, down to not wanting to tell him how many kids they
> had these days or what their addresses were.

That is very sad. It is ashame that so many people let religion ruin their
families and friendships.

> Turns out they though (I don't know why) that he had joined "the Ramtha
cult"
> and was under demonic influence.

This sent me to google. I hadn't heard of that one before.

> So Baptist "realities" were discussed and I'm holding the letter wondering
whether to send it or not. Probably will.

Have you ever seen the Isaac Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation? It is very
interesting. A few of the churches I attended would rate pretty high on the
scale. http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

> And that's outside the larger stresses of homeschooling conflicts.
(They're
> not homeschoolers, as far as I know, but I mean homeschoolers in general
in
> the world.)

I am a little concerned here too. Not that they can do anything about us
homeschooling. We're in Texas and the laws are pretty lenient here
regarding HS. I can't think of any reason they could come up with to call
CPS but you never know. We are in the Southern Baptist capital here....so
irrational fears exist.

> It's rough. I understand their fears and concerns, but the real world
> outside "southern Baptistism" <g> is so much kinder and wiser and happier.

That is SO true. It is also why I want to spare my children that hell. I
spent 10 years of my late teens/early adulthood entrenched in it. Sometimes
I feel like I wasted all that time but I suppose I wouldn't be who I am now
if not for all of it.

Cheryl

[email protected]

we are alot like you. i have a very open mind and religion is one of the
things i could talk about 4ever!!! i think wicca is a beautiful religion, my
husband is more a pagan, and we are always having to explain our every move.
we also do things like grill out at midnight during the winter and like you
we have 2 little girls always asking questions, then there is my in-laws. my
brother and sister-in-law are over the top religous. holliness i think,
anyway, they hs their 4 boys and try to give advice only they are not
informed about things such as unschooling and insist that they are right and
i am wronge. i feel your pain!

tina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cheryl Duke

> http://gemini.berkshire.net/~ifas/wa/
>
> Walk Away
>
> a website for former fundamentalists


ROFL...I should have just checked google. I don't think I was ever a
fundie. I have always had too much of a rebellious streak in me.
One time while I was working at the christian bookstore a man came up to the
counter and asked me if the little black nissan pulsar outside was mine. I
said yes and he informed me that my hubcaps had a 5-pointed star on them.
Without missing a beat I just said "oh, well, I'll be sure not to park with
the points down." Needless to say he went off in a huff to report me to the
owner and I got yelled at for being rude to a customer.
thanks Sandra,

Cheryl