[email protected]

In a message dated 6/11/02 7:54:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
Wilkinson6@... writes:


> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., S and C McPherson
> <mcpherson0627@j...> wrote:
> > Fellow unschoolers:
> >
> > This is an SOS. I am new to northern VA, and am in desperate need
> of
> > contact with another unschooler. I am a stayhome dad, and my wife,
> > Charlotte, and I have been trying to implement the unschooling
> > philosophy, however imperfectly, for about a year, but having just
> moved
> > we've only made contact with homeschoolers, who seem a little more
> > control oriented, to say the least (I myself am far too
> controlling, but
> > am trying to mend that, and being around controlling parents doesn't
> > help).
>
> I hope you find others!
> I'm on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, so I'm close, but not close
> enough for playgroups and such. :-(
> I can very much relate to being a person trying to figure out this
> parenting thing while also letting go of my control issues.
> I got to meet 2 other unschooling moms last week, who came down for a
> few days vacation together with their kids and I spent the day on the
> beach with them. There were 12 kids between us, and I invited 2
> other hsing friends I have, so we had 17 kids in all!(Hi Jane if
> you're reading this!) Anyway.... I was reminded that day how I am
> missing out on having friends that have the same/similiar
> philosophies that I have. I don't know ANYONE IRL who treat children
> with real respect. While I have my beliefs and convictions, I find
> it hard to hold true to them all of the time because I have noone in
> real life to be a model for me. All I have is what I'm trying to
> fight against, for perspective. It's very frustrating.
> Good luck to you!
> Joanna -the almost liberatarian/almost atheist ;-)

Yes, good luck! Remember, there are options for finding other unschoolers in
your area. Post a notice at the local library, grocery store, local free
bulletin board...

I want to play devils advocate for a minute here about the issue raised in
the previous posts about control. Only because my best friend, who thinks my
homeschooling is past Douglas Adams weird, believes my kids are heading for
certain doom if I don't squelch even some of their natural exuberance {what I
call it. hyperactive what she calls it} And *make* them behave! Now she knows
my kids know how to act in a restaurant, the library or wherever. But this
issue comes up most often when she is over with her kids, we are trying to
talk and the all kids are running around having a ball. (After the
prerequisite three or four screams, she begins the conversation with a sigh
and "I just don't understand how you deal with THIS all day!" As if THIS is
par for the course and how a normal day of learning/living is in our home!)
We have THIS discussion on a fairly regular basis. <beg>

First as unschoolers, is unschooling just a way we facilitate our children's
learning, Or does unschooling extend beyond natural learning and into our
parenting? Does it have to? Can you (general) be successful in unschooling
and still have control in your parenting? Is having *controll* a bad thing?
How can you raise children without some control, if you give up all control,
won't you just raise wild *out-of-controll* children who don't listen or do
as they are told? We all hear the advice that if you treat children as
adults, then they will be good, model citizens you will never be ashamed to
take out in public. But does that really work? It just sounds too easy. Or,
as my best friend is fond of telling me, "Nancy, if you don't exert some
parental authority on them, they will never respect you when they are older!"
So, does inviting the unschooling philosophy into your life mean
relinquishing all parental *controll*?
~Nancy~
*Emperess Wants it All*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 6/12/02 12:24 AM, Dnowens@... at Dnowens@... wrote:

> First as unschoolers, is unschooling just a way we facilitate our children's
> learning, Or does unschooling extend beyond natural learning and into our
> parenting?

Depends on the unschooler.

> Is having *controll* a bad thing?

It's a lot easier for the controller than the controlled.

> How can you raise children without some control

Perhaps you're equating control with guidance? Giving up control doesn't
mean giving up talking and guiding and modeling.

> if you give up all control,
> won't you just raise wild *out-of-controll* children who don't listen or do
> as they are told?

Is doing what you're told to do a good thing? It makes it convenient for
parents but is learning to do as an authority tells you without question a
good thing? *Is* that a goal you want for your children as adults? Or is it
a goal you have for your children while they're living at home that you want
them to turn off as soon as they're on their own?

Don't a lot of us feel trapped by the idea of wanting experts to tell us
what to do for schooling, medical care, parenting? Is that a good thing?

Or is a better goal learning to understand situations, think through
consequences and act accordingly.

> We all hear the advice that if you treat children as
> adults, then they will be good, model citizens you will never be ashamed to
> take out in public.

Well, kids will be kids. If everyone accepted that some kids are very
exuberant and if every parent recognized their responsibility for guidance
and respected their children's capacities for social situations then yes,
they'd be model children.

> But does that really work? It just sounds too easy.

Yes. *But* making allowances for kids who are not the sit still kind. An
adult restaurant, church service, shopping, places they may wander off,
social situations that last longer than 10 minutes and so on may be years
away for some kids just because that's their personality.

> "Nancy, if you don't exert some
> parental authority on them, they will never respect you when they are older!"

*People* won't respect others who don't respect themselves. Do you respect
adults who exert authority over you?

I think if adults let the kids walk all over them (as in not standing up for
yourself as a fellow human being with needs and feelings of your own) then
the kids (and other humans) won't have much respect.

Joyce

S and C McPherson

Joanna:

Thanks for making contact. I relate 100 percent. We know more about
what not to do that what to do. Not really what you'd want, is it?
Anyway, too bad you're so far away, but we'll see you around on
unschooling-dotcom.

Scott

On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 00:24:43 EDT Dnowens@... writes:
> In a message dated 6/11/02 7:54:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
> Wilkinson6@... writes:
>
>
> > --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., S and C McPherson
> > <mcpherson0627@j...> wrote:
> > > Fellow unschoolers:
> > >
> > > This is an SOS. I am new to northern VA, and am in desperate
> need
> > of
> > > contact with another unschooler. I am a stayhome dad, and my
> wife,
> > > Charlotte, and I have been trying to implement the unschooling
> > > philosophy, however imperfectly, for about a year, but having
> just
> > moved
> > > we've only made contact with homeschoolers, who seem a little
> more
> > > control oriented, to say the least (I myself am far too
> > controlling, but
> > > am trying to mend that, and being around controlling parents
> doesn't
> > > help).
> >
> > I hope you find others!
> > I'm on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, so I'm close, but not close
> > enough for playgroups and such. :-(
> > I can very much relate to being a person trying to figure out this
>
> > parenting thing while also letting go of my control issues.
> > I got to meet 2 other unschooling moms last week, who came down
> for a
> > few days vacation together with their kids and I spent the day on
> the
> > beach with them. There were 12 kids between us, and I invited 2
> > other hsing friends I have, so we had 17 kids in all!(Hi Jane if
> > you're reading this!) Anyway.... I was reminded that day how I am
>
> > missing out on having friends that have the same/similiar
> > philosophies that I have. I don't know ANYONE IRL who treat
> children
> > with real respect. While I have my beliefs and convictions, I
> find
> > it hard to hold true to them all of the time because I have noone
> in
> > real life to be a model for me. All I have is what I'm trying to
> > fight against, for perspective. It's very frustrating.
> > Good luck to you!
> > Joanna -the almost liberatarian/almost atheist ;-)
>
> Yes, good luck! Remember, there are options for finding other
> unschoolers in
> your area. Post a notice at the local library, grocery store, local
> free
> bulletin board...
>
> I want to play devils advocate for a minute here about the issue
> raised in
> the previous posts about control. Only because my best friend, who
> thinks my
> homeschooling is past Douglas Adams weird, believes my kids are
> heading for
> certain doom if I don't squelch even some of their natural
> exuberance {what I
> call it. hyperactive what she calls it} And *make* them behave! Now
> she knows
> my kids know how to act in a restaurant, the library or wherever.
> But this
> issue comes up most often when she is over with her kids, we are
> trying to
> talk and the all kids are running around having a ball. (After the
> prerequisite three or four screams, she begins the conversation with
> a sigh
> and "I just don't understand how you deal with THIS all day!" As if
> THIS is
> par for the course and how a normal day of learning/living is in our
> home!)
> We have THIS discussion on a fairly regular basis. <beg>
>
> First as unschoolers, is unschooling just a way we facilitate our
> children's
> learning, Or does unschooling extend beyond natural learning and
> into our
> parenting? Does it have to? Can you (general) be successful in
> unschooling
> and still have control in your parenting? Is having *controll* a bad
> thing?
> How can you raise children without some control, if you give up all
> control,
> won't you just raise wild *out-of-controll* children who don't
> listen or do
> as they are told? We all hear the advice that if you treat children
> as
> adults, then they will be good, model citizens you will never be
> ashamed to
> take out in public. But does that really work? It just sounds too
> easy. Or,
> as my best friend is fond of telling me, "Nancy, if you don't exert
> some
> parental authority on them, they will never respect you when they
> are older!"
> So, does inviting the unschooling philosophy into your life mean
> relinquishing all parental *controll*?
> ~Nancy~
> *Emperess Wants it All*
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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