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In a message dated 10/13/99 3:21:43 PM, Bonknit@... writes:

<< I constantly have to go through some
process in my own head to get to a point where I know they are learning and
developing as they should. Boy this is hard after years of conditioning.
>>

i agree! and as i mentioned it is harder when i face others who stare in
amazement... one thing that helps is having a baby or toddler around who
no-one ever questions they are learning scads of things daily!! it affirms
my knowing that the olders are doing the same, and then i can see it again...
erin

Jeff & Diane Gwirtz

> toddler anymore. At some point we begin to think (consciously or
> unconsciously) that we can do less,.that trying is hard and we can get by
> without it.

I think this is a *schooled* mindset, not an unschooling one. My
unschooled 13 year old is no longer interested in getting by. That
only happened in ps.

At some point, though, what is required of us is to learn
> things which we may not get from random activity or even passionate
> interests. That is another place where we moms and dads can step in. If we
>
Again, there are things my son decided to learn that he is not
passionate about, but that he has found he needs to learn for
another subject that he is passionate about. For instance, he loves
physics and that sends him back to the math books. He isn't
passionate about grammar, but he knows that if he's going to take
the ACT or SAT, he might have to do some review. Still, at 13, he
reaches these conclusions on his own without requirements from me.
I think grammar and math drills can be accomplished in very little
time later when children see a need for them. I would hate to
introduce them early and burn my kids out on them like ps does - or
have them forget what we learned and do it all again. This, in and
of itself is what sent me to unschooling. We started off as relaxed
unschoolers, but I realized that my children didn't remember what
they were learning anymore than they did in ps. Now, as
unschoolers, what is learned is remembered because it it used.

Diane in KS

Randy's Mail

I totally agree with the basic premise in your note. Young children and
trees don't know they can learn less or do less. A toddler goes for it all
the time. The pathways build and build. Every experience is a learning or
reinforcing experience. And a tree, given the conditions of soil, water,
sunlight will grow as tall as it can. It just doesn't know how to do
differently. But a human is not a tree and a little boy or girl is not a
toddler anymore. At some point we begin to think (consciously or
unconsciously) that we can do less,.that trying is hard and we can get by
without it. At some point, though, what is required of us is to learn
things which we may not get from random activity or even passionate
interests. That is another place where we moms and dads can step in. If we
prepare ourselves and have some imagination, we can help our children learn
the thins they need to know mostly from daily life and the pursuit of their
interests. It is up to us to show them the learning that would otherwise
pass them by so they can use it now.

-- RJS

Brown

I agree when you say:

Randy's Mail wrote:

> A toddler goes for it all
> the time. The pathways build and build. Every experience is a learning or
> reinforcing experience.

But I don't agree when you say:

> <cut> a little boy or girl is not a
> toddler anymore. At some point we begin to think (consciously or
> unconsciously) that we can do less,.that trying is hard and we can get by
> without it.

I think it is more that at some point we, as parents, teachers whatever, start
to judge what is being learnt. Whereas when the child was a toddler we admired
everything they did and learnt, now we start to judge, to expect particular
learning, to say you don't need this, you do need that.

> At some point, though, what is required of us is to learn
> things which we may not get from random activity or even passionate
> interests. That is another place where we moms and dads can step in. If we
> prepare ourselves and have some imagination, we can help our children learn
> the thins they need to know mostly from daily life and the pursuit of their
> interests. It is up to us to show them the learning that would otherwise
> pass them by so they can use it now.

No one person can possibly ever learn more than a speck of even the current
knowledge available. So we we judge for our children. Even the most laid back
totally non-invasive unschooler judges to a degree, just by then things s/he
makes available for her/his child to be exposed to.

But when you say <At some point we begin to think (consciously or
unconsciously) that we can do less,.that trying is hard and we can get by
without it. > I disagree. I think this only applies to learning that is imposed
by someone else's agenda. When I really want to learn something, I get out there
and do it no matter how hard it is.

Carol