Re: learning first 5 years
Corina Crane
**We all know that children learn like CRAZY during their first 5
years. Does anyone know if anyone's ever done a study that correlates the slow-down
in learning to a child's introduction into a school environment. In other words, has
anyone ever shown that NOT putting a child in a school environment, but
instead keeping a child in a natural, self-directed environment (you know, like
the one they're in BEFORE they're sent to public school!) eliminates or at
least diminishes the slow-down in learning?**
Do we? Isn't that an assumption (learning like crazy first 5 years)? Don't we as unschoolers tend to agree that children/adults/everyone learns when they want to? When their ready.
Doesn't society push this early learning thing? Are they really "sponges" or just normal humans?
While I totally agree that schooling kills off any desire to continue learning - I think that saying children learn "like crazy" during the first 5 years also puts alot of pressure on society to make that happen. We create that false impression. Sure you can force kids to do things (at any age), but would they have naturally choose that timeline? I don't honestly believe we ever "slow down" our learning ability. But we will believe that if it's fed to us enough times.
Corina (still learning!)
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
years. Does anyone know if anyone's ever done a study that correlates the slow-down
in learning to a child's introduction into a school environment. In other words, has
anyone ever shown that NOT putting a child in a school environment, but
instead keeping a child in a natural, self-directed environment (you know, like
the one they're in BEFORE they're sent to public school!) eliminates or at
least diminishes the slow-down in learning?**
Do we? Isn't that an assumption (learning like crazy first 5 years)? Don't we as unschoolers tend to agree that children/adults/everyone learns when they want to? When their ready.
Doesn't society push this early learning thing? Are they really "sponges" or just normal humans?
While I totally agree that schooling kills off any desire to continue learning - I think that saying children learn "like crazy" during the first 5 years also puts alot of pressure on society to make that happen. We create that false impression. Sure you can force kids to do things (at any age), but would they have naturally choose that timeline? I don't honestly believe we ever "slow down" our learning ability. But we will believe that if it's fed to us enough times.
Corina (still learning!)
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shelly G
> Do we? Isn't that an assumption (learning likeYes, I agree that they do learn when they want to, and
> crazy first 5 years)? Don't we as unschoolers tend
> to agree that children/adults/everyone learns when
> they want to? When their ready.
at their own pace.
> While I totally agree that schooling kills off anyI think you may have missed my point. I'm really
> desire to continue learning - I think that saying
> children learn "like crazy" during the first 5 years
> also puts alot of pressure on society to make that
> happen. We create that false impression. Sure you
> can force kids to do things (at any age), but would
> they have naturally choose that timeline? I don't
> honestly believe we ever "slow down" our learning
> ability. But we will believe that if it's fed to us
> enough times.
referring to the NATURAL learning that occurs for all
of us. And in the early years, children learn an
astonishing amount ... without anyone TEACHING them at
all.
And I'm not saying that our ability to learn
diminishes, I'm merely talking about how school can
squelch the natural inclination to learn by sucking
the life out of the process. I know that's what
happened to my son during his school years. He's still
in the process of recovering from that.
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/02 10:33:52 AM, corina_crane@... writes:
<< Do we? Isn't that an assumption (learning like crazy first 5 years)? >>
No, early learning is documented like crazy. They go from immobility to
running and jumping. They go from not understanding language to using
thousands of words. With words come concepts and with concepts comes their
own categorization of things. Knowing a dog from a cat takes a LOT of higher
thought, once you've generalized and specified and compared and contrasted.
And they don't need to have the least idea what those fancy thought processes
are to perform them.
<<Doesn't society push this early learning thing? Are they really "sponges"
or just normal humans? >>
Normal humans are sponge-like in their desire to learn, and that desire will
continue until it's curtailed or shamed out of them or until they give up the
hope that others will help them learn, or until they get the idea that if you
learn just for fun you're a dupe. THAT is pushed into them by other kids,
when they figure out that school rewards certain kinds of learning and
punishes other kinds.
<<I think that saying children learn "like crazy" during the first 5 years
also puts alot of pressure on society to make that happen. >>
I think it's nothing society invented. It happens when babies look around,
sit up, and take off all within two years' time.
Sandra
<< Do we? Isn't that an assumption (learning like crazy first 5 years)? >>
No, early learning is documented like crazy. They go from immobility to
running and jumping. They go from not understanding language to using
thousands of words. With words come concepts and with concepts comes their
own categorization of things. Knowing a dog from a cat takes a LOT of higher
thought, once you've generalized and specified and compared and contrasted.
And they don't need to have the least idea what those fancy thought processes
are to perform them.
<<Doesn't society push this early learning thing? Are they really "sponges"
or just normal humans? >>
Normal humans are sponge-like in their desire to learn, and that desire will
continue until it's curtailed or shamed out of them or until they give up the
hope that others will help them learn, or until they get the idea that if you
learn just for fun you're a dupe. THAT is pushed into them by other kids,
when they figure out that school rewards certain kinds of learning and
punishes other kinds.
<<I think that saying children learn "like crazy" during the first 5 years
also puts alot of pressure on society to make that happen. >>
I think it's nothing society invented. It happens when babies look around,
sit up, and take off all within two years' time.
Sandra
corina_crane
I wrote:
I'm not arguing the fact that babies learn an incredible amount.
I'm debating the assumption that we must get it all in in
these "magical" early years or our abilities somehow diminish.
Corina
> <<I think that saying children learn "like crazy" during the first5 years
> also puts alot of pressure on society to make that happen. >>Sandra wrote:
> I think it's nothing society invented. It happens when babieslook around,
> sit up, and take off all within two years' time.me:
I'm not arguing the fact that babies learn an incredible amount.
I'm debating the assumption that we must get it all in in
these "magical" early years or our abilities somehow diminish.
Corina
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/02 1:49:44 PM, corina_crane@... writes:
<< I'm not arguing the fact that babies learn an incredible amount.
I'm debating the assumption that we must get it all in in
these "magical" early years or our abilities somehow diminish.
those people who say things slow down severely at the age of six seem totally
blind to what happens almost universally in this culture at that age: Kids
go to school.
Sandra
<< I'm not arguing the fact that babies learn an incredible amount.
I'm debating the assumption that we must get it all in in
these "magical" early years or our abilities somehow diminish.
>>I don't think that was being claimed either. What was being claimed was that
those people who say things slow down severely at the age of six seem totally
blind to what happens almost universally in this culture at that age: Kids
go to school.
Sandra
corina_crane
Sandra,
I'm sorry you have this desire to argue with anything. I was simply
adding my views to the conversation. That's it. Just thoughts.
Whether they relate or not is irrelevant. Their mine and I added
them in a hope to stimulate talk - not argument. The thoughts were
generally aligned (I belive) with unschooling - so valid to this
list.
Corina
I'm sorry you have this desire to argue with anything. I was simply
adding my views to the conversation. That's it. Just thoughts.
Whether they relate or not is irrelevant. Their mine and I added
them in a hope to stimulate talk - not argument. The thoughts were
generally aligned (I belive) with unschooling - so valid to this
list.
Corina
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/1/02 1:49:44 PM, corina_crane@y... writes:
>
> << I'm not arguing the fact that babies learn an incredible
amount.
> I'm debating the assumption that we must get it all in in
> these "magical" early years or our abilities somehow diminish.
> >>
>
> I don't think that was being claimed either. What was being
claimed was that
> those people who say things slow down severely at the age of six
seem totally
> blind to what happens almost universally in this culture at that
age: Kids
> go to school.
>
> Sandra
Alan & Brenda Leonard
> Knowing a dog from a cat takes a LOT of higherJust for laughs....
> thought, once you've generalized and specified and compared and contrasted.
my husband noted, in response to Sandra's comment, that he thought dogs and
cats were the same species for a long time. He knew the difference: dogs
were male, and cats were female. We've had many a chuckle over our
childhood mis-beliefs!
brenda
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/02 9:11:06 PM, abtleo@... writes:
<< my husband noted, in response to Sandra's comment, that he thought dogs and
cats were the same species for a long time. He knew the difference: dogs
were male, and cats were female. We've had many a chuckle over our
childhood mis-beliefs! >>
There was an animal in our neighborhood when I was about twelve and lots of
us kids kept trying to catch sight of it again, because we did NOT know
whether it was a dog or a cat. And we weren't toddlers, it was just
freakish. It was a low-to-the-ground silky-haired skittish thing (cat-clues)
but didn't run with two feet together like cats do (dog clue). Ears were no
help. We couldn't get close. Finally we asked kids who lived closer and
they said freaky looking little long-haired dog.
Sandra
<< my husband noted, in response to Sandra's comment, that he thought dogs and
cats were the same species for a long time. He knew the difference: dogs
were male, and cats were female. We've had many a chuckle over our
childhood mis-beliefs! >>
There was an animal in our neighborhood when I was about twelve and lots of
us kids kept trying to catch sight of it again, because we did NOT know
whether it was a dog or a cat. And we weren't toddlers, it was just
freakish. It was a low-to-the-ground silky-haired skittish thing (cat-clues)
but didn't run with two feet together like cats do (dog clue). Ears were no
help. We couldn't get close. Finally we asked kids who lived closer and
they said freaky looking little long-haired dog.
Sandra
Fetteroll
on 6/1/02 4:38 PM, corina_crane at corina_crane@... wrote:
it's usually a good idea it go back and figure out how they're getting the
interpretation they are.
Communication isn't as easy as some people make it seem! ;-)
Especially when we're trying to convey some complex thought, we tend to
write out the highlights while our brains silently fill in the gaps between
our words. Even more especially when we think we're talking about something
so obvious or mutually agreed on that we unconsciously feel a few words will
call up the same complex thoughts in others.
So we think we've said one thing and have actually said something very
different. What people end up hearing are the islands poking up when what we
thought we had been talking about was the sea floor and the mountain chains
rising up out of it.
It's also helpful to picture when we've written to a public forum that we've
created an entity that's separate from us. An idea. If someone takes that
idea and examines it, they aren't examining us, just the idea.
(Corinna, I went back through the emails. If you want some help puzzling out
what the chain was leading up to your frustration just write to me privately
off list at fetteroll@... and I can help you figure it out.)
Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator
(a copy of this message has been sent to the Unschooling-dotcom moderators
list)
> I'm sorry you have this desire to argue with anything. I was simplyWhen we find ourselves frustrated with people misunderstanding our intent,
> adding my views to the conversation. That's it. Just thoughts.
> Whether they relate or not is irrelevant. Their mine and I added
> them in a hope to stimulate talk - not argument. The thoughts were
> generally aligned (I belive) with unschooling - so valid to this
> list.
it's usually a good idea it go back and figure out how they're getting the
interpretation they are.
Communication isn't as easy as some people make it seem! ;-)
Especially when we're trying to convey some complex thought, we tend to
write out the highlights while our brains silently fill in the gaps between
our words. Even more especially when we think we're talking about something
so obvious or mutually agreed on that we unconsciously feel a few words will
call up the same complex thoughts in others.
So we think we've said one thing and have actually said something very
different. What people end up hearing are the islands poking up when what we
thought we had been talking about was the sea floor and the mountain chains
rising up out of it.
It's also helpful to picture when we've written to a public forum that we've
created an entity that's separate from us. An idea. If someone takes that
idea and examines it, they aren't examining us, just the idea.
(Corinna, I went back through the emails. If you want some help puzzling out
what the chain was leading up to your frustration just write to me privately
off list at fetteroll@... and I can help you figure it out.)
Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator
(a copy of this message has been sent to the Unschooling-dotcom moderators
list)
Shelly G
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
constantly amazes me. My son Will is 19 months old.
Yesterday, it was way too hot to be out in the sun
(well, you southerners and southwesterners probably
would think I'm a wimp, but we've got red hair,
freckles and fair skin in this family, and stay
undercover when it's too hot!) so we made finger
paints and sat on the porch and made a big gloppy mess
painting with fingers and feet and toes, etc.
In the course of talking, I asked Will if he was going
to use the purple, and I'll be darned if later that
afternoon he wasn't pointing to flowers on the porch,
flowers in the garden, and various other things he
knows the name for and calling them purple. Wow! I was
amazed that the concept of the color purple would
stick.
Of course, everything furry except a cow and a cat is
a DOG (including the deer that was in our front lawn
IN TOWN this morning!) but he'll get there!
It's a marvel to watch, isn't it?
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>The learning that takes place in these early years
> No, early learning is documented like crazy. They
> go from immobility to
> running and jumping. They go from not understanding
> language to using
> thousands of words. With words come concepts and
> with concepts comes their
> own categorization of things. Knowing a dog from a
> cat takes a LOT of higher
> thought, once you've generalized and specified and
> compared and contrasted.
constantly amazes me. My son Will is 19 months old.
Yesterday, it was way too hot to be out in the sun
(well, you southerners and southwesterners probably
would think I'm a wimp, but we've got red hair,
freckles and fair skin in this family, and stay
undercover when it's too hot!) so we made finger
paints and sat on the porch and made a big gloppy mess
painting with fingers and feet and toes, etc.
In the course of talking, I asked Will if he was going
to use the purple, and I'll be darned if later that
afternoon he wasn't pointing to flowers on the porch,
flowers in the garden, and various other things he
knows the name for and calling them purple. Wow! I was
amazed that the concept of the color purple would
stick.
Of course, everything furry except a cow and a cat is
a DOG (including the deer that was in our front lawn
IN TOWN this morning!) but he'll get there!
It's a marvel to watch, isn't it?
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Shelly G
--- corina_crane <corina_crane@...> wrote:
expires on the 5th birthday, either ... my point on my
first post was just a wondering that, left to our own
devices and not subjected to public school, perhaps
our learning abilities/desire would NOT slow down. I
can tell you that my oldest son's desire to learn
definitely did slow down after entering school.
I fear I didn't communicate that very well at all. I
hope that clears it up.
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> I'm not arguing the fact that babies learn anI don't think there's a "learning clock" ticking that
> incredible amount.
> I'm debating the assumption that we must get it all
> in in
> these "magical" early years or our abilities somehow
> diminish.
>
> Corina
expires on the 5th birthday, either ... my point on my
first post was just a wondering that, left to our own
devices and not subjected to public school, perhaps
our learning abilities/desire would NOT slow down. I
can tell you that my oldest son's desire to learn
definitely did slow down after entering school.
I fear I didn't communicate that very well at all. I
hope that clears it up.
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Shelly G
I have to share with you folks something that happened
over the past few days on another yahoo list I belong
to (organic gardening).
Someone mentioned they were starting a community
learning center, and I had just read an article about
on in Pennsylvania, so I posted information and the
link to their site. Nothing else, just stated I was
happy to meet another homeschooler, and asked how old
her children were, real innocuous stuff....
Someone else on the group posted a scathing letter
about how ridiculous homeschooling is, and her bottom
line was that children have to learn to toe the line,
submit to authority, and people like me who think
their children don't have to follow the rules are
ruining their children, etc., etc. .... oh, and of
course the socialization thing :)
Wow! You know, I've talked to lots of people who were
unaware of the insufficiencies of the school system (I
used to be one of them), but I never really thought
about people who KNEW that compulsory schooling serves
to indoctrinate children into a life of obedience and
"toeing the line" and actually WANT that for their
children!
Well, a million things went through my mind about how
to respond to this person, but I really don't think
that an organic gardening list is the appropriate
place for it. So I told her I thought that it's ok for
some people to send their children to public schools
and some people to homeschool their children. I told
her that I agree that both produce a different result,
and that I'm quite sure which result I want for my
children. I also told her I'd be glad to discuss it
further off-list, but she hasn't responded to that
invitation yet.
I'm afraid this was my first contact with a rabid
anti-homeschooler.
Anyone else met up with the likes of that?
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
over the past few days on another yahoo list I belong
to (organic gardening).
Someone mentioned they were starting a community
learning center, and I had just read an article about
on in Pennsylvania, so I posted information and the
link to their site. Nothing else, just stated I was
happy to meet another homeschooler, and asked how old
her children were, real innocuous stuff....
Someone else on the group posted a scathing letter
about how ridiculous homeschooling is, and her bottom
line was that children have to learn to toe the line,
submit to authority, and people like me who think
their children don't have to follow the rules are
ruining their children, etc., etc. .... oh, and of
course the socialization thing :)
Wow! You know, I've talked to lots of people who were
unaware of the insufficiencies of the school system (I
used to be one of them), but I never really thought
about people who KNEW that compulsory schooling serves
to indoctrinate children into a life of obedience and
"toeing the line" and actually WANT that for their
children!
Well, a million things went through my mind about how
to respond to this person, but I really don't think
that an organic gardening list is the appropriate
place for it. So I told her I thought that it's ok for
some people to send their children to public schools
and some people to homeschool their children. I told
her that I agree that both produce a different result,
and that I'm quite sure which result I want for my
children. I also told her I'd be glad to discuss it
further off-list, but she hasn't responded to that
invitation yet.
I'm afraid this was my first contact with a rabid
anti-homeschooler.
Anyone else met up with the likes of that?
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Shelly G
Sue, that's wonderful! Thanks for sharing it. I think
I'll share it at our next HS parent meeting. Shelly
--- Sue <werapfamily@...> wrote:
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
I'll share it at our next HS parent meeting. Shelly
--- Sue <werapfamily@...> wrote:
>=== message truncated ===
> And read this to get an idea of why school such a
> restrictive environment to learn in
>
> What ABOUT socialization?
>
> Two women meet at a playground, where their children
> are swinging and playing ball. The women are sitting
> on a bench watching. Eventually, they begin to talk.
> W1: Hi. My name is Maggie. My kids are the three in
> red shirts -- helps me keep track of them.
> W2: (Smiles) I'm Terri. Mine are in the pink and
> yellow shirts. Do you come here a lot?
> W1: Usually two or three times a week, after we go
> to
> the library.
> W2: Wow. Where do you find the time?
> W1: We home school, so we do it during the day most
> of
> the time.
> W2: Some of my neighbors home school, but I send my
> kids to public school.
> W1: How do you do it?
> W2: It's not easy. I go to all the PTO meetings and
> work with the kids every day after school and stay
> real involved.
> W1: But what about socialization? Aren't you worried
> about them being cooped up all day with kids their
> own
> ages, never getting the opportunity for natural
> relationships?
> W2: Well, yes. But I work hard to balance that. They
> have some friends who're home schooled, and we visit
> their grandparents almost every month.
> W1: Sounds like you're a very dedicated mom. But
> don't
> you worry about all the opportunities they're
> missing
> out on? I mean they're so isolated from real life --
> how will they know what the world is like -- what
> people do to make a living -- how to get along with
> all different kinds of people?
> W2: Oh, we discussed that at PTO, and we started a
> fund to bring real people into the classrooms. Last
> month, we had a policeman and a doctor come in to
> talk
> to every class. And next month, we're having a woman
> from Japan and a man from Kenya come to speak.
> W1: Oh, we met a man from Japan in the grocery store
> the other week, and he got to talking about his
> childhood in Tokyo. My kids were absolutely
> fascinated. We invited him to dinner and got to meet
> his wife and their three children.
> W2: That's nice. Hmm. Maybe we should plan some
> Japanese food for the lunchroom on Multicultural
> Day.
> W1: Maybe your Japanese guest could eat with the
> children.
> W2: Oh, no. She's on a very tight schedule. She has
> two other schools to visit that day. It's a
> system-wide thing we're doing.
> W1: Oh, I'm sorry. Well, maybe you'll meet someone
> interesting in the grocery store sometime and you'll
> end up having them over for dinner.
> W2: I don't think so. I never talk to people in the
> store -- certainly not people who might not even
> speak
> my language. What if that Japanese man hadn't spoken
> English?
> W1: To tell you the truth, I never had time to think
> about it. Before I even saw him, my six-year-old had
> asked him what he was going to do with all the
> oranges
> he was buying.
> W2: Your child talks to strangers?
> W1: I was right there with him. He knows that as
> long
> as he's with me, he can talk to anyone he wishes.
> W2: But you're developing dangerous habits in him.
> My
> children never talk to strangers.
> W1: Not even when they're with you?
> W2: They're never with me, except at home after
> school. So you see why it's so important for them to
> understand that talking to strangers is a big no-no.
> W1: Yes, I do. But if they were with you, they could
> get to meet interesting people and still be safe.
> They'd get a taste of the real world, in real
> settings. They'd also get a real feel for how to
> tell
> when a situation is dangerous or suspicious.
> W2: They'll get that in the third and fifth grades
> in
> their health courses.
> W1: Well, I can tell you're a very caring mom. Let
> me
> give you my number--if you ever want to talk, give
> me
> call. It was good to meet you.
> --Author unknown
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shelly G" <shellyrae00@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 10:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] School mentality
>
>
> > I have to share with you folks something that
> happened
> > over the past few days on another yahoo list I
> belong
> > to (organic gardening).
> >
> > Someone mentioned they were starting a community
> > learning center, and I had just read an article
> about
> > on in Pennsylvania, so I posted information and
> the
> > link to their site. Nothing else, just stated I
> was
> > happy to meet another homeschooler, and asked how
> old
> > her children were, real innocuous stuff....
> >
> > Someone else on the group posted a scathing letter
> > about how ridiculous homeschooling is, and her
> bottom
> > line was that children have to learn to toe the
> line,
> > submit to authority, and people like me who think
> > their children don't have to follow the rules are
> > ruining their children, etc., etc. .... oh, and
> of
> > course the socialization thing :)
> >
> > Wow! You know, I've talked to lots of people who
> were
> > unaware of the insufficiencies of the school
> system (I
> > used to be one of them), but I never really
> thought
> > about people who KNEW that compulsory schooling
> serves
> > to indoctrinate children into a life of obedience
> and
> > "toeing the line" and actually WANT that for their
> > children!
> >
> > Well, a million things went through my mind about
> how
> > to respond to this person, but I really don't
> think
> > that an organic gardening list is the appropriate
> > place for it. So I told her I thought that it's ok
> for
> > some people to send their children to public
> schools
> > and some people to homeschool their children. I
> told
> > her that I agree that both produce a different
> result,
> > and that I'm quite sure which result I want for my
> > children. I also told her I'd be glad to discuss
> it
> > further off-list, but she hasn't responded to that
> > invitation yet.
> >
> > I'm afraid this was my first contact with a rabid
> > anti-homeschooler.
> >
> > Anyone else met up with the likes of that?
> >
> > Shelly
> >
> > =====
> > "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful,
> committed citizens can
> change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that
> ever does." -- Margaret
> Mead
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change
> the subject line! ~~~
>
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/2/02 6:49:37 AM, shellyrae00@... writes:
<< I'm afraid this was my first contact with a rabid
anti-homeschooler.
<<Anyone else met up with the likes of that? >>
I have.
It seems definitely a place people come FROM rather than go to. I mean
that's the starting point, and seems to be a self-preservation instinct. If
I had to suffer through school because it was good for me and kept me from
being spoiled and created all the good that is in me, then it was a good
thing. If it's a good thing, it should be preserved.
Right under the surface of that is the fear that maybe school was NOT
crucial, and that either all one's teachers and relatives were flat out lying
about its importance or (maybe worse) that they were all blind and unthinking
about it. Going to that place (as unschoolers all have to do) is a painful
review of one's own life which takes months or years. Most people seem not
to want any probing reflection into their lives. And some people don't have
the inter- and intra-personal skill to think that way anyway.
But from people with the kneejerk defense of school come some who gradually
see the advantages of homeschooling and, some of them, of unschooling. And
sometimes those who were the most adamantly against homeschooling become big
promoters out of guilt and shame over what they said earlier.
I'm thinking that because I'm one of them!
Sandra
<< I'm afraid this was my first contact with a rabid
anti-homeschooler.
<<Anyone else met up with the likes of that? >>
I have.
It seems definitely a place people come FROM rather than go to. I mean
that's the starting point, and seems to be a self-preservation instinct. If
I had to suffer through school because it was good for me and kept me from
being spoiled and created all the good that is in me, then it was a good
thing. If it's a good thing, it should be preserved.
Right under the surface of that is the fear that maybe school was NOT
crucial, and that either all one's teachers and relatives were flat out lying
about its importance or (maybe worse) that they were all blind and unthinking
about it. Going to that place (as unschoolers all have to do) is a painful
review of one's own life which takes months or years. Most people seem not
to want any probing reflection into their lives. And some people don't have
the inter- and intra-personal skill to think that way anyway.
But from people with the kneejerk defense of school come some who gradually
see the advantages of homeschooling and, some of them, of unschooling. And
sometimes those who were the most adamantly against homeschooling become big
promoters out of guilt and shame over what they said earlier.
I'm thinking that because I'm one of them!
Sandra
Shelly G
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
I do know what you're saying here. When I read
"Teenage Liberation Handbook", on the one hand, it
made me so excited for the possibilitites for my
children, and on the other hand, it made me feel grief
for the opportunities that I could have had as an
adolescent.
I can't help but feel sorry for the children, though,
of parents whose resentments about their own
childhoods keep them from providing a better lifestyle
for their own children.
As for my prior feelings about homeschooling, I once
thought that the only people who homeschool were
isolationist religious zealots trying to keep their
kids away from the bad elements! Boy, I sure am glad I
was wrong. <g>
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>Going to that place (as unschoolers all
>
> have to do) is a painfulSandra,
> review of one's own life which takes months or
> years. Most people seem not
> to want any probing reflection into their lives.
I do know what you're saying here. When I read
"Teenage Liberation Handbook", on the one hand, it
made me so excited for the possibilitites for my
children, and on the other hand, it made me feel grief
for the opportunities that I could have had as an
adolescent.
I can't help but feel sorry for the children, though,
of parents whose resentments about their own
childhoods keep them from providing a better lifestyle
for their own children.
As for my prior feelings about homeschooling, I once
thought that the only people who homeschool were
isolationist religious zealots trying to keep their
kids away from the bad elements! Boy, I sure am glad I
was wrong. <g>
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Corina Crane
>Neural pathways are being grown at an amazing rate the first five years.Although this is a very wide held theory, new research is showing otherwise. They have viewed and recorded NEW neuron growth in adults - even seniors. I think our view of our mind is still formed by a science which is still in its infancy. Given the right stimulation (and researchers are also looking at enviroment/exercise) our brain is capable of growing at any age.
>By age 8, we are basically hard wired for life. Now how we use that "hard
>wiring" has a lot to do with whether or not the person in question
>continues with the desire to learn.
>You can quit using neural pathways that grew, you can spark neural
>pathways into use, but you don't grow them later.
>Ren
Althougth I totally agree that I'm talking about happy, healthy, childhoods, this new info could mean that a child who comes into a better life at an older age still has a chance to reach new brain capacity.
Sort of off topic - this months Scientific American has a fascinating article about sevants. They are saying that not only are some people born sevants due to autism, celebral palsy (sp?), and other cognitive disabilities, but some people BECOME sevants after a brain injury to the left hemisphere. So really our brains are always capable of being "re-wired"
Corina
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/2/02 7:49:37 AM Central Daylight Time,
shellyrae00@... writes:
whole wide world! We can talk about anything, except homeschooling and that
breaks my heart.
When it comes to complete strangers attacking you, IMHO it is best to just
let it be. You can turn off your computer or filter that person out of your
cyber-life. If it is at the store, you really can leave your cart in the
middle of the isle, take your kids by the hand and leave. Or in my case,
leave the cart in the check out lane while the ignorant slob, in serious need
of a bath, who was checking my groceries stands there foaming at the mouth
because my kids aren't in school at 11:30 in the morning. Don't worry when
she calls after you, don't you want your groceries and now she has to put all
the food back, it is part of her job.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shellyrae00@... writes:
> I'm afraid this was my first contact with a rabidYes, My MIL, who I just do my best to ignore and my very best friend in the
> anti-homeschooler.
>
> Anyone else met up with the likes of that?
>
> Shelly
>
whole wide world! We can talk about anything, except homeschooling and that
breaks my heart.
When it comes to complete strangers attacking you, IMHO it is best to just
let it be. You can turn off your computer or filter that person out of your
cyber-life. If it is at the store, you really can leave your cart in the
middle of the isle, take your kids by the hand and leave. Or in my case,
leave the cart in the check out lane while the ignorant slob, in serious need
of a bath, who was checking my groceries stands there foaming at the mouth
because my kids aren't in school at 11:30 in the morning. Don't worry when
she calls after you, don't you want your groceries and now she has to put all
the food back, it is part of her job.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/2/02 8:21:50 AM Central Daylight Time,
werapfamily@... writes:
Kansas are you?
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
werapfamily@... writes:
> Hi Shellie,Sue, what a wonderful post! I always like antidotes like this. BTW where in
>
> just quickly as it is late here in Oz but I just wanted to forward this
> story from another list that I thought was great - sorry you had to
> experience unschooling bullying from a schooler at the vegie patch (my
> attempt at a joke)
>
> And read this to get an idea of why school such a
> restrictive environment to learn in
Kansas are you?
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<<> just quickly as it is late here in Oz>>
<< BTW where in
Kansas are you? >>
If Kansas and Oz were the same place, there would have been no story!
Sue's in Australia.
<< BTW where in
Kansas are you? >>
If Kansas and Oz were the same place, there would have been no story!
Sue's in Australia.
Shelly G
--- Dnowens@... wrote:
Or in my case,
doesn't matter to me. I'm laughing my head off about
the cashier, though, because now I've met someone else
who's left their cart full of groceries at the
checkout stand!!! I did the same thing when the
cashier complained about my child not behaving like an
obedient little robot!! I hope she had to personally
put all the stuff back on the shelves. <g>
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Or in my case,
> leave the cart in the check out lane while theYou're right ... that person on that email group
> ignorant slob, in serious need
> of a bath, who was checking my groceries stands
> there foaming at the mouth
> because my kids aren't in school at 11:30 in the
> morning. Don't worry when
> she calls after you, don't you want your groceries
> and now she has to put all
> the food back, it is part of her job.
doesn't matter to me. I'm laughing my head off about
the cashier, though, because now I've met someone else
who's left their cart full of groceries at the
checkout stand!!! I did the same thing when the
cashier complained about my child not behaving like an
obedient little robot!! I hope she had to personally
put all the stuff back on the shelves. <g>
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/2/02 8:46:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I'm afraid this was my first contact with a rabid
anti-homeschooler.
Anyone else met up with the likes of that? >>
It's rather shocking isn't it?
I've met a couple in person. Very disturbing.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< I'm afraid this was my first contact with a rabid
anti-homeschooler.
Anyone else met up with the likes of that? >>
It's rather shocking isn't it?
I've met a couple in person. Very disturbing.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/2/02 2:40:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> <<> just quickly as it is late here in Oz>>LOL! Kansas doesn't equal Oz? Now don't I feel stupid! <g>
>
> << BTW where in
> Kansas are you? >>
>
> If Kansas and Oz were the same place, there would have been no story!
>
> Sue's in Australia.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shelly G
--- starsuncloud@... wrote:
nasty post to that group, lots and lots of people have
spoken up and said 1) I homeschool my kids, 2) my kids
are grown and now I wish I had home schooled them, and
3) the homeschooled kids they've known have been great
kids to be around and have been impressive
individuals.
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> In a message dated 6/2/02 8:46:16 PM CentralThe NICE thing is that ever since that person made her
> Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
> << I'm afraid this was my first contact with a rabid
> anti-homeschooler.
>
> Anyone else met up with the likes of that? >>
>
> It's rather shocking isn't it?
> I've met a couple in person. Very disturbing.
>
> Ren
>
nasty post to that group, lots and lots of people have
spoken up and said 1) I homeschool my kids, 2) my kids
are grown and now I wish I had home schooled them, and
3) the homeschooled kids they've known have been great
kids to be around and have been impressive
individuals.
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
Some of madam's friends got together with her last Fall with a
plan to put on a Christmas play for their parents. They decided
to "adapt" the Wizard of Oz so that Oz was Santa's Toyland.
Huge, serious, impassioned, literary criticism from the 5 y.o.
crowd about whether Oz was a separate place or was a
dream/coma/delusion that took place in Kansas after Dorothy hit
her head. ...it made enduring the resulting mess, tears,
practices, and performance worth it all. LOL.
plan to put on a Christmas play for their parents. They decided
to "adapt" the Wizard of Oz so that Oz was Santa's Toyland.
Huge, serious, impassioned, literary criticism from the 5 y.o.
crowd about whether Oz was a separate place or was a
dream/coma/delusion that took place in Kansas after Dorothy hit
her head. ...it made enduring the resulting mess, tears,
practices, and performance worth it all. LOL.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue" <werapfamily@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] School mentality
|
| > Sue, what a wonderful post! I always like antidotes like
this. BTW where
| in
| > Kansas are you?
| > ~Nancy
|
| Hi Nancy, I had to laugh and say just follow the yellow brick
road. I take
| it subconciously you were thinking of the Wizard of Oz.
|
| Sue
| > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
| >
| >
| >
| > ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject
line! ~~~
| >
| > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
| > [email protected]
| >
| > Visit the Unschooling website:
| > http://www.unschooling.com
| >
| >
| >
| > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
| >
| >
|
|
| ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor ---------------------~-->
| Kwick Pick opens locked car doors,
| front doors, drawers, briefcases,
| padlocks, and more. On sale now!
| http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/0xXolB/TM
| ---------------------------------------------------------------
------~->
|
| ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject
line! ~~~
|
| To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
| [email protected]
|
| Visit the Unschooling website:
| http://www.unschooling.com
|
|
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/3/02 7:40:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
werapfamily@... writes:
Oz, I think Kansas. No room for anything else. <g> To me it is all about the
book, the evils of the big bad government (Wicked Witch of the East) silver
slippers (money) and a little girl and her dog Toto too! So fill an ignorant
girl in! Why do you call Australia Oz?
~Nancy~ chanting mantra thereisonlyoneozthereisonlyoneozthereisonlyoneoz....
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
werapfamily@... writes:
> Hi Nancy, I had to laugh and say just follow the yellow brick road. I takeNot even subconsciously! I guess I am a Kansas girl at heart, someone says
> it subconsciously you were thinking of the Wizard of Oz.
>
> Sue
>
Oz, I think Kansas. No room for anything else. <g> To me it is all about the
book, the evils of the big bad government (Wicked Witch of the East) silver
slippers (money) and a little girl and her dog Toto too! So fill an ignorant
girl in! Why do you call Australia Oz?
~Nancy~ chanting mantra thereisonlyoneozthereisonlyoneozthereisonlyoneoz....
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/3/02 9:10:47 AM, Dnowens@... writes:
<< Why do you call Australia Oz? >>
When Americans say "Australia" there's quite an "s" sound, and in Aussie too,
but Australians pronounce it more as a "z" so their "Aussie" sounds like our
"Ozzie."
If you know 'Oscar' pronounced in English and 'Oscar' pronounced in Spanish,
it's like that difference.
That's my guess.
Sandra from New Mexico. <g>
<< Why do you call Australia Oz? >>
When Americans say "Australia" there's quite an "s" sound, and in Aussie too,
but Australians pronounce it more as a "z" so their "Aussie" sounds like our
"Ozzie."
If you know 'Oscar' pronounced in English and 'Oscar' pronounced in Spanish,
it's like that difference.
That's my guess.
Sandra from New Mexico. <g>
Sue
Hi Shellie,
just quickly as it is late here in Oz but I just wanted to forward this
story from another list that I thought was great - sorry you had to
experience unschooling bullying from a schooler at the vegie patch (my
attempt at a joke)
And read this to get an idea of why school such a
restrictive environment to learn in
What ABOUT socialization?
Two women meet at a playground, where their children
are swinging and playing ball. The women are sitting
on a bench watching. Eventually, they begin to talk.
W1: Hi. My name is Maggie. My kids are the three in
red shirts -- helps me keep track of them.
W2: (Smiles) I'm Terri. Mine are in the pink and
yellow shirts. Do you come here a lot?
W1: Usually two or three times a week, after we go to
the library.
W2: Wow. Where do you find the time?
W1: We home school, so we do it during the day most of
the time.
W2: Some of my neighbors home school, but I send my
kids to public school.
W1: How do you do it?
W2: It's not easy. I go to all the PTO meetings and
work with the kids every day after school and stay
real involved.
W1: But what about socialization? Aren't you worried
about them being cooped up all day with kids their own
ages, never getting the opportunity for natural
relationships?
W2: Well, yes. But I work hard to balance that. They
have some friends who're home schooled, and we visit
their grandparents almost every month.
W1: Sounds like you're a very dedicated mom. But don't
you worry about all the opportunities they're missing
out on? I mean they're so isolated from real life --
how will they know what the world is like -- what
people do to make a living -- how to get along with
all different kinds of people?
W2: Oh, we discussed that at PTO, and we started a
fund to bring real people into the classrooms. Last
month, we had a policeman and a doctor come in to talk
to every class. And next month, we're having a woman
from Japan and a man from Kenya come to speak.
W1: Oh, we met a man from Japan in the grocery store
the other week, and he got to talking about his
childhood in Tokyo. My kids were absolutely
fascinated. We invited him to dinner and got to meet
his wife and their three children.
W2: That's nice. Hmm. Maybe we should plan some
Japanese food for the lunchroom on Multicultural Day.
W1: Maybe your Japanese guest could eat with the
children.
W2: Oh, no. She's on a very tight schedule. She has
two other schools to visit that day. It's a
system-wide thing we're doing.
W1: Oh, I'm sorry. Well, maybe you'll meet someone
interesting in the grocery store sometime and you'll
end up having them over for dinner.
W2: I don't think so. I never talk to people in the
store -- certainly not people who might not even speak
my language. What if that Japanese man hadn't spoken
English?
W1: To tell you the truth, I never had time to think
about it. Before I even saw him, my six-year-old had
asked him what he was going to do with all the oranges
he was buying.
W2: Your child talks to strangers?
W1: I was right there with him. He knows that as long
as he's with me, he can talk to anyone he wishes.
W2: But you're developing dangerous habits in him. My
children never talk to strangers.
W1: Not even when they're with you?
W2: They're never with me, except at home after
school. So you see why it's so important for them to
understand that talking to strangers is a big no-no.
W1: Yes, I do. But if they were with you, they could
get to meet interesting people and still be safe.
They'd get a taste of the real world, in real
settings. They'd also get a real feel for how to tell
when a situation is dangerous or suspicious.
W2: They'll get that in the third and fifth grades in
their health courses.
W1: Well, I can tell you're a very caring mom. Let me
give you my number--if you ever want to talk, give me
call. It was good to meet you.
--Author unknown
just quickly as it is late here in Oz but I just wanted to forward this
story from another list that I thought was great - sorry you had to
experience unschooling bullying from a schooler at the vegie patch (my
attempt at a joke)
And read this to get an idea of why school such a
restrictive environment to learn in
What ABOUT socialization?
Two women meet at a playground, where their children
are swinging and playing ball. The women are sitting
on a bench watching. Eventually, they begin to talk.
W1: Hi. My name is Maggie. My kids are the three in
red shirts -- helps me keep track of them.
W2: (Smiles) I'm Terri. Mine are in the pink and
yellow shirts. Do you come here a lot?
W1: Usually two or three times a week, after we go to
the library.
W2: Wow. Where do you find the time?
W1: We home school, so we do it during the day most of
the time.
W2: Some of my neighbors home school, but I send my
kids to public school.
W1: How do you do it?
W2: It's not easy. I go to all the PTO meetings and
work with the kids every day after school and stay
real involved.
W1: But what about socialization? Aren't you worried
about them being cooped up all day with kids their own
ages, never getting the opportunity for natural
relationships?
W2: Well, yes. But I work hard to balance that. They
have some friends who're home schooled, and we visit
their grandparents almost every month.
W1: Sounds like you're a very dedicated mom. But don't
you worry about all the opportunities they're missing
out on? I mean they're so isolated from real life --
how will they know what the world is like -- what
people do to make a living -- how to get along with
all different kinds of people?
W2: Oh, we discussed that at PTO, and we started a
fund to bring real people into the classrooms. Last
month, we had a policeman and a doctor come in to talk
to every class. And next month, we're having a woman
from Japan and a man from Kenya come to speak.
W1: Oh, we met a man from Japan in the grocery store
the other week, and he got to talking about his
childhood in Tokyo. My kids were absolutely
fascinated. We invited him to dinner and got to meet
his wife and their three children.
W2: That's nice. Hmm. Maybe we should plan some
Japanese food for the lunchroom on Multicultural Day.
W1: Maybe your Japanese guest could eat with the
children.
W2: Oh, no. She's on a very tight schedule. She has
two other schools to visit that day. It's a
system-wide thing we're doing.
W1: Oh, I'm sorry. Well, maybe you'll meet someone
interesting in the grocery store sometime and you'll
end up having them over for dinner.
W2: I don't think so. I never talk to people in the
store -- certainly not people who might not even speak
my language. What if that Japanese man hadn't spoken
English?
W1: To tell you the truth, I never had time to think
about it. Before I even saw him, my six-year-old had
asked him what he was going to do with all the oranges
he was buying.
W2: Your child talks to strangers?
W1: I was right there with him. He knows that as long
as he's with me, he can talk to anyone he wishes.
W2: But you're developing dangerous habits in him. My
children never talk to strangers.
W1: Not even when they're with you?
W2: They're never with me, except at home after
school. So you see why it's so important for them to
understand that talking to strangers is a big no-no.
W1: Yes, I do. But if they were with you, they could
get to meet interesting people and still be safe.
They'd get a taste of the real world, in real
settings. They'd also get a real feel for how to tell
when a situation is dangerous or suspicious.
W2: They'll get that in the third and fifth grades in
their health courses.
W1: Well, I can tell you're a very caring mom. Let me
give you my number--if you ever want to talk, give me
call. It was good to meet you.
--Author unknown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shelly G" <shellyrae00@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] School mentality
> I have to share with you folks something that happened
> over the past few days on another yahoo list I belong
> to (organic gardening).
>
> Someone mentioned they were starting a community
> learning center, and I had just read an article about
> on in Pennsylvania, so I posted information and the
> link to their site. Nothing else, just stated I was
> happy to meet another homeschooler, and asked how old
> her children were, real innocuous stuff....
>
> Someone else on the group posted a scathing letter
> about how ridiculous homeschooling is, and her bottom
> line was that children have to learn to toe the line,
> submit to authority, and people like me who think
> their children don't have to follow the rules are
> ruining their children, etc., etc. .... oh, and of
> course the socialization thing :)
>
> Wow! You know, I've talked to lots of people who were
> unaware of the insufficiencies of the school system (I
> used to be one of them), but I never really thought
> about people who KNEW that compulsory schooling serves
> to indoctrinate children into a life of obedience and
> "toeing the line" and actually WANT that for their
> children!
>
> Well, a million things went through my mind about how
> to respond to this person, but I really don't think
> that an organic gardening list is the appropriate
> place for it. So I told her I thought that it's ok for
> some people to send their children to public schools
> and some people to homeschool their children. I told
> her that I agree that both produce a different result,
> and that I'm quite sure which result I want for my
> children. I also told her I'd be glad to discuss it
> further off-list, but she hasn't responded to that
> invitation yet.
>
> I'm afraid this was my first contact with a rabid
> anti-homeschooler.
>
> Anyone else met up with the likes of that?
>
> Shelly
>
> =====
> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret
Mead
>
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>
Sue
> Sue, what a wonderful post! I always like antidotes like this. BTW wherein
> Kansas are you?Hi Nancy, I had to laugh and say just follow the yellow brick road. I take
> ~Nancy
it subconciously you were thinking of the Wizard of Oz.
Sue
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Sue
So fill an ignorant
Sue~ chanting mantra in reply to ~
thereisonlyoneozthereisonlyoneozthereisonlyoneoz.
yesandthatsthelanddownunderyesandthatsthelanddownunder (from the song "we
come from the land down under") (LOL)
Sue
> girl in! Why do you call Australia Oz?thereisonlyoneozthereisonlyoneozthereisonlyoneoz....
> ~Nancy~ chanting mantra
>As Sandra said we are known as Aussies as pronounced Ozzies
Sue~ chanting mantra in reply to ~
thereisonlyoneozthereisonlyoneozthereisonlyoneoz.
yesandthatsthelanddownunderyesandthatsthelanddownunder (from the song "we
come from the land down under") (LOL)
Sue
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>