lame excuses for behavior
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/02 2:28:00 AM, PSoroosh@... writes:
<< The other two finally got tired of
it and told her to stop cheating. She said, and I quote exactly: "You can't
blame me, I have ADD and that means I'm special needs and I can't help what I
do." >>
THERE IT IS.
Makes me shudder.
What the hell is wrong with teachers and parents and school? (Oh, never
mind. Ignore that question entirely.)
IF one of my kids has a personality or mental quirk which could make it hard
for him to interact with other people (hey wait--it's not "if," as they do
have a few little things) then I see my duty to help them find ways to
minimize their problems, to interact without that being detrimental.
I would never EVER tell my kids "Well, just ignore people who think you're
rude. They don't know your excellent biological or psychological reasons for
being rude. They don't have your disabilities."
If it's easy for one child to be courteous and safe in play situations and
more difficult for another child to do the same, then there it is. It's
going to be more difficult for that one, but it's STILL expected and required
to be courteous and safe when playing with other kids.
Some parents are worried that their kids might not have enough math skills or
report-writing experience to get jobs, and they might do better to see if
they have enough social skill to pass an interview and be respected by
co-workers.
Sandra
<< The other two finally got tired of
it and told her to stop cheating. She said, and I quote exactly: "You can't
blame me, I have ADD and that means I'm special needs and I can't help what I
do." >>
THERE IT IS.
Makes me shudder.
What the hell is wrong with teachers and parents and school? (Oh, never
mind. Ignore that question entirely.)
IF one of my kids has a personality or mental quirk which could make it hard
for him to interact with other people (hey wait--it's not "if," as they do
have a few little things) then I see my duty to help them find ways to
minimize their problems, to interact without that being detrimental.
I would never EVER tell my kids "Well, just ignore people who think you're
rude. They don't know your excellent biological or psychological reasons for
being rude. They don't have your disabilities."
If it's easy for one child to be courteous and safe in play situations and
more difficult for another child to do the same, then there it is. It's
going to be more difficult for that one, but it's STILL expected and required
to be courteous and safe when playing with other kids.
Some parents are worried that their kids might not have enough math skills or
report-writing experience to get jobs, and they might do better to see if
they have enough social skill to pass an interview and be respected by
co-workers.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/02 10:49:38 AM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
any hindrance (mental, physical, or perceived) as an excuse for inappropriate
behavior, cheating, not doing something correctly etc. But do you "help them
find ways to minimize their problems..." or do you show them different routes
of expression? If one of my kids had a disability I wouldn't want to minimize
it, instead I would help them find more creative ways to live with it. I
guess my issue is only with the word minimize, and maybe you meant this all
along. :o)
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> IF one of my kids has a personality or mental quirk which could make it hardOkay, here goes! I agree with you in that children (everyone) shouldn't use
> for him to interact with other people (hey wait--it's not "if," as they do
> have a few little things) then I see my duty to help them find ways to
> minimize their problems, to interact without that being detrimental.
any hindrance (mental, physical, or perceived) as an excuse for inappropriate
behavior, cheating, not doing something correctly etc. But do you "help them
find ways to minimize their problems..." or do you show them different routes
of expression? If one of my kids had a disability I wouldn't want to minimize
it, instead I would help them find more creative ways to live with it. I
guess my issue is only with the word minimize, and maybe you meant this all
along. :o)
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/02 11:14:49 AM, Dnowens@... writes:
<< But do you "help them
find ways to minimize their problems..." or do you show them different routes
of expression? >>
I don't consider those to be different things.
If one is short tempered, he needs tricks to control his temper. And that
will be a different route of expression. And it will minimize his problem,
which is the danger of his short temper affecting his friendships,
reputation, legal standing, whatever.
<<If one of my kids had a disability I wouldn't want to minimize
it, instead I would help them find more creative ways to live with it.>>
I don't see a difference.
It's minimizing the negative effect the problem could have on their
interactions, self-esteem, success, sleep-patterns, whatever.
Sandra
<< But do you "help them
find ways to minimize their problems..." or do you show them different routes
of expression? >>
I don't consider those to be different things.
If one is short tempered, he needs tricks to control his temper. And that
will be a different route of expression. And it will minimize his problem,
which is the danger of his short temper affecting his friendships,
reputation, legal standing, whatever.
<<If one of my kids had a disability I wouldn't want to minimize
it, instead I would help them find more creative ways to live with it.>>
I don't see a difference.
It's minimizing the negative effect the problem could have on their
interactions, self-esteem, success, sleep-patterns, whatever.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/02 7:16:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> In a message dated 5/28/02 11:14:49 AM, Dnowens@... writes:I see, so its not an exclusive thing! I was assuming too much! <g>
>
> << But do you "help them
> find ways to minimize their problems..." or do you show them different
> routes
> of expression? >>
>
> I don't consider those to be different things.
>
> If one is short tempered, he needs tricks to control his temper. And that
> will be a different route of expression. And it will minimize his
> problem,
> which is the danger of his short temper affecting his friendships,
> reputation, legal standing, whatever.
>
> <<If one of my kids had a disability I wouldn't want to minimize
> it, instead I would help them find more creative ways to live with it.>>
>
> I don't see a difference.
> It's minimizing the negative effect the problem could have on their
> interactions, self-esteem, success, sleep-patterns, whatever.
>
> Sandra
>
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shelly G
I really feel the need to add my .02 worth on the
subject of using ADD/other issues as "excuses" for
behavior.
When I was well into my 30s, a psychologist friend of
mine suspected I had ADD, and suggested that she test
me. Well, according to the test, I do have ADD. And,
while I believe that my son exhibits very many of the
characteristics, I don't feel it necessary to have him
tested, because I don't necessarily see it as an
impediment. And I definitely don't see it as an excuse
for bad behavior.
However -- and this is a big however -- it was
enlightening for me to learn about some of the traits
common to ADD that have had an impact in my life. And
awareness has helped me help my son learn to minimize
(I definitely agree with Sandra that minimize is the
right word here) the impact that a given trait (or
limitation -- call it what you will) has on him and
his life.
I think that we (society) are making a huge mistake by
letting children use ADD as a "get out of jail free"
card as an excuse for bad behavior.
In my opinion -- and I certainly am no expert except
in my knowledge of myself and my children -- having
ADD just means you may process information and
situations differently than some other people. But
then, introverts process information differently than
extroverts. That doesn't make introversion or
extroversion a handicap.
Helping our children understand themselves, how they
view and interact with the world, and how to maximize
their talents and minimize, or work around, their
limitations IS one of our responsibilities as parents.
In my mind, this is the same as "finding more creative
ways to live with it", as Nancy stated.
But then, that's not unique to parents with children
who have been diagnosed with ADD. Everyone has
strengths and limitations. Some limitations will
always be part of us, and although we may develop ways
to cope with them, some talents or abilities will
never be natural or easy to us. To me, that's the
beautiful thing about unschooling. My son could not
cope with a "learning" situation in which he had to
sit at a desk facing forward for several hours a day
and pay perfect attention to a person at the front of
the room imparting information.
Interaction with other people is just too important to
him. That's how he learns best, by bouncing ideas off
of someone else, by sharing (verbally) what he's
learning, by discussing things he finds interesting.
So by choosing unschooling, I believe I am helping him
capitalize on his strengths and minimize the impact of
his limitations.
Just my opinion.
But if I'm wrong, it's not my fault, because I have
ADD. HA!
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
subject of using ADD/other issues as "excuses" for
behavior.
When I was well into my 30s, a psychologist friend of
mine suspected I had ADD, and suggested that she test
me. Well, according to the test, I do have ADD. And,
while I believe that my son exhibits very many of the
characteristics, I don't feel it necessary to have him
tested, because I don't necessarily see it as an
impediment. And I definitely don't see it as an excuse
for bad behavior.
However -- and this is a big however -- it was
enlightening for me to learn about some of the traits
common to ADD that have had an impact in my life. And
awareness has helped me help my son learn to minimize
(I definitely agree with Sandra that minimize is the
right word here) the impact that a given trait (or
limitation -- call it what you will) has on him and
his life.
I think that we (society) are making a huge mistake by
letting children use ADD as a "get out of jail free"
card as an excuse for bad behavior.
In my opinion -- and I certainly am no expert except
in my knowledge of myself and my children -- having
ADD just means you may process information and
situations differently than some other people. But
then, introverts process information differently than
extroverts. That doesn't make introversion or
extroversion a handicap.
Helping our children understand themselves, how they
view and interact with the world, and how to maximize
their talents and minimize, or work around, their
limitations IS one of our responsibilities as parents.
In my mind, this is the same as "finding more creative
ways to live with it", as Nancy stated.
But then, that's not unique to parents with children
who have been diagnosed with ADD. Everyone has
strengths and limitations. Some limitations will
always be part of us, and although we may develop ways
to cope with them, some talents or abilities will
never be natural or easy to us. To me, that's the
beautiful thing about unschooling. My son could not
cope with a "learning" situation in which he had to
sit at a desk facing forward for several hours a day
and pay perfect attention to a person at the front of
the room imparting information.
Interaction with other people is just too important to
him. That's how he learns best, by bouncing ideas off
of someone else, by sharing (verbally) what he's
learning, by discussing things he finds interesting.
So by choosing unschooling, I believe I am helping him
capitalize on his strengths and minimize the impact of
his limitations.
Just my opinion.
But if I'm wrong, it's not my fault, because I have
ADD. HA!
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/29/02 3:28:03 AM, shellyrae00@... writes:
<< But if I'm wrong, it's not my fault, because I have
ADD. HA! >>
Hey, don't they have drugs for that!?
<g>
Sandra
<< But if I'm wrong, it's not my fault, because I have
ADD. HA! >>
Hey, don't they have drugs for that!?
<g>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/29/02 5:28:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
shellyrae00@... writes:
"disorder", but I would rather call it a difference, not a disability.
Amazingly enough, I share some but not all of those traits. And I was a
wonderful performing teacher's pet student until junior high. I always
thought it was hormones, puberty, becoming more interested in boys than
studies, but unschooling is showing me other possibilities about what was
wrong with my "education" and why i stopped "succeeding". Anyhoo, I found a
website sometime ago, and wanted to share it with you........
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/3337/add.html">ADD</A> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/3337/add.html
this is a site devoted to adult ADD types. I found it when searching how to
get my Messy, unorganized life together. I then found flylady.net, way back
before she is as popular as she is now with her own website, book, and a
hundred thousand subscribers to her list. It helped me find great coping
methods, getting on good routines, breaking things down into manageable
pieces, and getting everything running much smoother. A few years back, I
thought I couldn't even consider homeschooling, I was too undisciplined and
unorganized. BIG changes followed and we do just fine now :0) HTH, i haven't
visited that site in a while, i hope it still offers coping strategies and
not just lame excuses!
Ang
SAHM to
Megan Elizabeth 8/8/92 8lbs 8oz
Ashlyn Olivia 7/25/99 9lbs 8oz
Christian James 6/09/01 9lbs 5oz
<A HREF="http://www.twgallery.8m.com/MEGAMOM08.html">Meet MEGAMOM08</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/christian.html">Christian's Birth Story</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/mygirlspage.html">My Girls page</A>
|w|w|
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shellyrae00@... writes:
> But if I'm wrong, it's not my fault, because I havesounds like you have it right to me! My daughter shows signs of the same
> ADD. HA!
>
> Shelly
>
>
>
>
"disorder", but I would rather call it a difference, not a disability.
Amazingly enough, I share some but not all of those traits. And I was a
wonderful performing teacher's pet student until junior high. I always
thought it was hormones, puberty, becoming more interested in boys than
studies, but unschooling is showing me other possibilities about what was
wrong with my "education" and why i stopped "succeeding". Anyhoo, I found a
website sometime ago, and wanted to share it with you........
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/3337/add.html">ADD</A> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/3337/add.html
this is a site devoted to adult ADD types. I found it when searching how to
get my Messy, unorganized life together. I then found flylady.net, way back
before she is as popular as she is now with her own website, book, and a
hundred thousand subscribers to her list. It helped me find great coping
methods, getting on good routines, breaking things down into manageable
pieces, and getting everything running much smoother. A few years back, I
thought I couldn't even consider homeschooling, I was too undisciplined and
unorganized. BIG changes followed and we do just fine now :0) HTH, i haven't
visited that site in a while, i hope it still offers coping strategies and
not just lame excuses!
Ang
SAHM to
Megan Elizabeth 8/8/92 8lbs 8oz
Ashlyn Olivia 7/25/99 9lbs 8oz
Christian James 6/09/01 9lbs 5oz
<A HREF="http://www.twgallery.8m.com/MEGAMOM08.html">Meet MEGAMOM08</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/christian.html">Christian's Birth Story</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/mygirlspage.html">My Girls page</A>
|w|w|
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AprilWells
I have read somewhere, (I am sorry that I can't remember where) that if
you take into consideration that boys and girls learn differently (I am
not trying to step into anything with that statment) that this is the
way most boys learn.
The artical I read gave as an example a boy in a Formal learning
situation doing a worksheet. The boy taps his pencil, got up moved
around the desk did a pproblem upsidedown, sat down again hopped right
back up, flew his pencil like an airplane, and it goes on. The teacher
in this formal learning situation, is exasperated, and calles the boy
hyper, and says he doesnt follow instructions well. But in reality, all
that was going on was he was facilitating his thinking processes.
another small example of tis might be what my parents always said about
me "the only way the make her be quiet would be to tie her hands
together so she can't talk" (I am a wild talking with my hands kind of
person :-)}
Sorry to jump in here...
April
you take into consideration that boys and girls learn differently (I am
not trying to step into anything with that statment) that this is the
way most boys learn.
The artical I read gave as an example a boy in a Formal learning
situation doing a worksheet. The boy taps his pencil, got up moved
around the desk did a pproblem upsidedown, sat down again hopped right
back up, flew his pencil like an airplane, and it goes on. The teacher
in this formal learning situation, is exasperated, and calles the boy
hyper, and says he doesnt follow instructions well. But in reality, all
that was going on was he was facilitating his thinking processes.
another small example of tis might be what my parents always said about
me "the only way the make her be quiet would be to tie her hands
together so she can't talk" (I am a wild talking with my hands kind of
person :-)}
Sorry to jump in here...
April
> Interaction with other people is just too important to
> him. That's how he learns best, by bouncing ideas off
> of someone else, by sharing (verbally) what he's
> learning, by discussing things he finds interesting.
> So by choosing unschooling, I believe I am helping him
> capitalize on his strengths and minimize the impact of
> his limitations.
Elizabeth Hill
Paula Harper-Christensen did a presentation on learning styles at the
HSC Sacramento conference last year (or the year before). She said that
making a kinesthetic learner sit still to learn is child abuse. I
agree!
I would extend that and say it's just as unreasonable as expecting a
visual learner to learn with his eyes covered or an auditory learner to
learn with his ears covered.
Betsy
**I have read somewhere, (I am sorry that I can't remember where) that
if
you take into consideration that boys and girls learn differently (I am
not trying to step into anything with that statment) that this is the
way most boys learn.
The artical I read gave as an example a boy in a Formal learning
situation doing a worksheet. The boy taps his pencil, got up moved
around the desk did a pproblem upsidedown, sat down again hopped right
back up, flew his pencil like an airplane, and it goes on. The teacher
in this formal learning situation, is exasperated, and calles the boy
hyper, and says he doesnt follow instructions well. But in reality, all
that was going on was he was facilitating his thinking processes.
another small example of tis might be what my parents always said about
me "the only way the make her be quiet would be to tie her hands
together so she can't talk" (I am a wild talking with my hands kind of
person :-)}**
HSC Sacramento conference last year (or the year before). She said that
making a kinesthetic learner sit still to learn is child abuse. I
agree!
I would extend that and say it's just as unreasonable as expecting a
visual learner to learn with his eyes covered or an auditory learner to
learn with his ears covered.
Betsy
**I have read somewhere, (I am sorry that I can't remember where) that
if
you take into consideration that boys and girls learn differently (I am
not trying to step into anything with that statment) that this is the
way most boys learn.
The artical I read gave as an example a boy in a Formal learning
situation doing a worksheet. The boy taps his pencil, got up moved
around the desk did a pproblem upsidedown, sat down again hopped right
back up, flew his pencil like an airplane, and it goes on. The teacher
in this formal learning situation, is exasperated, and calles the boy
hyper, and says he doesnt follow instructions well. But in reality, all
that was going on was he was facilitating his thinking processes.
another small example of tis might be what my parents always said about
me "the only way the make her be quiet would be to tie her hands
together so she can't talk" (I am a wild talking with my hands kind of
person :-)}**