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In a message dated 10/11/99 4:21:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jwwjr@... writes:

<< Should I ask for a blood test, is that the only true way to know? >>

A lot more Doctors are saying lets watch it. I know if my doctor says
antibiotics, he's really sure it's necessary. I think my 7 yo has been on
them once for a nasty, nasty, staph infection. And my 5 yo has taken a
pencillian shot once.

Interesting side note. Taking antibiotic pills and liquid is rather out
dated. I know that for this my Dr. gives one shot... and that's it. It's
done. He is being very cautious in that he sees his patients back too much
because of lack of follow through. And, this being the concern of the mega
bugs out there.

But, although my kids don't like the shot, I have to confess I find it a lot
easier because it's over and done with.

Charlotte

Linda Wyatt

> From: "The White's" <jwwjr@...>
>
> >if my wife had not stood fast and said "No
> >antibiotics until the results of a blood test showing the >white count."

>
> Should I ask for a blood test, is that the only true way to know?
>
> Cindy
>


An elevated white blood count does not indicate the presence or absence of
bacteria. Your white cells will increase during a viral infection.

The only way to know for sure if something is bacterial is to culture it
and look at it.

It is true that viral illnesses tend to have one certain pattern, and
bacterial have a different one. Yellow to green snot, for example, is
almost always a virus. Darker green to brown can be bacterial. Fevers for
a viral infection tend to be relatively low, around 100 degrees, maybe 101.
Fevers that are significantly higher tend to be bacterial.

These are not always the case, but tendencies. Sometimes you can have an
infection and no fever at all.

But an elevated white cell count is not an indication of bacterial
infection, or a reason to use antibiotics.


Linda

--
Linda Wyatt
hilinda@...
http://www.lightlink.com/hilinda
Learning everywhere, all the time.
Algebra before breakfast
"A lie, you see, no matter how often or how vociferously repeated, may be
mistaken for the truth, but it does not become the truth." - Adam Crown

The White's

>if my wife had not stood fast and said "No
>antibiotics until the results of a blood test showing the >white count."

This has been something I have asked at pediatricians but always get an
unsatisfactory answer (I'm not pushy enough, just say okay). Last 2 times
my children have been in with complaints of ears (they luckily don't have
ear infections often, oldest is almost 7 & has 3, youngest is 3 and has
1)....anyway I don't want my child on antibiotics if it's not necessary and
I know that doctors prescribe them WAY too often. When I asked how they
could tell if the infection was bacterial or not they said because of the
pus in the ear.

Should I ask for a blood test, is that the only true way to know?

Cindy

Joel Hawthorne

Just to let you know that ear infections are rarely treated with antibiotics in
Europe. Antihistamines are much more commonly used. Most (not all) ear
infections get better on their own. What pus? If the ear drum is intact how do
they see pus? Usually the ear drum appears reddened. We have never used
antibiotics with our kids though we came close on a couple of occasions. They
have always started to get better before we become really freaked out. I would
cave in much sooner but my wife is made of tougher stuff and is more self
reliant than I. I am brainwashed to a certain extent by being a nurse and
working around doctors so much. I am grateful for her level headedness.

I am confused by reports of pus in the ear. And you are right in spades about
antibiotics. They are massively over prescribed often at the insistence of
confused patients. Doctors need to be more assertive. ( I never thought I
would say that!)

The White's wrote:

> From: "The White's" <jwwjr@...>
>
> >if my wife had not stood fast and said "No
> >antibiotics until the results of a blood test showing the >white count."
>
> This has been something I have asked at pediatricians but always get an
> unsatisfactory answer (I'm not pushy enough, just say okay). Last 2 times
> my children have been in with complaints of ears (they luckily don't have
> ear infections often, oldest is almost 7 & has 3, youngest is 3 and has
> 1)....anyway I don't want my child on antibiotics if it's not necessary and
> I know that doctors prescribe them WAY too often. When I asked how they
> could tell if the infection was bacterial or not they said because of the
> pus in the ear.
>
> Should I ask for a blood test, is that the only true way to know?
>
> Cindy
>
> > Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com

--
best wishes
Joel

All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/

Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e.
restorative justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org

Joel Hawthorne

In combination with other symptoms such as swelling, pain, redness, and general
malaise an elevated white count can be useful in deciding to use antibiotics
but I agree it by itself is not a sufficient reason. You've got to look at the
whole person.

Linda Wyatt wrote:

> From: Linda Wyatt <hilinda@...>
>
> > From: "The White's" <jwwjr@...>
> >
> > >if my wife had not stood fast and said "No
> > >antibiotics until the results of a blood test showing the >white count."
>
> >
> > Should I ask for a blood test, is that the only true way to know?
> >
> > Cindy
> >
>
> An elevated white blood count does not indicate the presence or absence of
> bacteria. Your white cells will increase during a viral infection.
>
> The only way to know for sure if something is bacterial is to culture it
> and look at it.
>
> It is true that viral illnesses tend to have one certain pattern, and
> bacterial have a different one. Yellow to green snot, for example, is
> almost always a virus. Darker green to brown can be bacterial. Fevers for
> a viral infection tend to be relatively low, around 100 degrees, maybe 101.
> Fevers that are significantly higher tend to be bacterial.
>
> These are not always the case, but tendencies. Sometimes you can have an
> infection and no fever at all.
>
> But an elevated white cell count is not an indication of bacterial
> infection, or a reason to use antibiotics.
>
> Linda
>
> --
> Linda Wyatt
> hilinda@...
> http://www.lightlink.com/hilinda
> Learning everywhere, all the time.
> Algebra before breakfast
> "A lie, you see, no matter how often or how vociferously repeated, may be
> mistaken for the truth, but it does not become the truth." - Adam Crown
>
> > Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com

--
best wishes
Joel

All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/

Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e.
restorative justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/11/99 7:15:52 PM PST, jhawthorne@... writes:

<<
Just to let you know that ear infections are rarely treated with antibiotics
in
Europe. Antihistamines are much more commonly used. Most (not all) ear
infections get better on their own. What pus? If the ear drum is intact how
do
they see pus? Usually the ear drum appears reddened. We have never used
antibiotics with our kids though we came close on a couple of occasions.
They
have always started to get better before we become really freaked out. I
would
cave in much sooner but my wife is made of tougher stuff and is more self
reliant than I. I am brainwashed to a certain extent by being a nurse and
working around doctors so much. I am grateful for her level headedness.
>>

At our house we use Garlic Oil in the ear. Take a capsule, open it with a
sterile needle and squeeze the oil in. It is usually cleared up with two
doses of Garlic Oil. My kids that have used garlic oil have had far LESS ear
infections than the ones who suffered through the antibiotics too. We rarely
go to a doctor anymore, unless it is a true emergency.

Mary