[email protected]

I have had to take a test for every job I have applied for except for the one
that I am employed with now.

When I worked for a bakery in Arkansas, I had to take a speed test and a
communications test with the temp agency. I had to prove that I could
communicate effectively and that I speed.

Before being employed at a wiring company in Arkansas, that built dashboards
and radios for yachts in Cali...I had to be tested again in the same manner
as above.

When applying at the shoe store and at Mervyns of Cali, I took a test that
asked me questions like, if you have 3 pairs of shoes and 1 shoe is missing,
do you leave the customer and find the other shoe or do you stay with the
customer and holler for someone to find the other shoe? Questions that asked
whether or not you have stolen before or if you would steal if you had to do
it for your family? Weird questions. And then there was the math portion of
it and the english portion of it *reading* So, even though these were
basically tests in regards to how you would work with the public and your
merit these may not be related to as tests for some people. These are still
tests. These were not taken with pencil and paper either. THey were
administered on the computer. So, if your child has no computer experience
they should get some. The way technology is going we should all be computer
literate...dont you all think?

Boy, I sure love this group.

Thanks for having me!!!

Dee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 5/24/02 12:14 PM, dbatiste7@... at dbatiste7@... wrote:

> So, if your child has no computer experience
> they should get some. The way technology is going we should all be computer
> literate...dont you all think?

I don't know if it was this list or not but someone posted about the Hole in
the Wall experiment done in India where ghetto children learned how to use a
computer without teachers. The computer with internet access is just stuck
in a wall in a vacant lot, freely accessible to everyone.

http://www.greenstar.org/butterflies/Hole-in-the-Wall.htm

(And while searching for the article, I stumbled on the company's website
about the project: http://www.niitholeinthewall.com/)

I think here on this list accessible only by computer you're preaching to
the choir ;-) Not only do our kids get some, but most of them get way more
than some without much input from us I suspect!

Joyce

[email protected]

Sometimes we think of computer experience as sending e-mail, drawing on paint
and things of that nature. I am speaking of the other computer programs as
well. Don't you think that kids these days should do more than just play
games on the comp? Shouldn't they know how to do an excel spreadsheet? Add
some information into Access and all of that good stuff. Most companies
nowadays want someone who has this knowledge base of simple computer
applications. Do you think this is leaning towards forced learning if the
child has no interest in those things?

This may be off a bit...my hubby has no interest in reading. But if there is
something that I want him to read, I read it around him and engulf myself in
the book. When something is funny, I laugh out loud or chuckle ever so
slightly if something catches my attention or I agree with smacks on my leg.
He then starts reading the book. Maybe this would work with the kids hey?
Sounds like a good idea.

Dee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Fri, 24 May 2002 12:14:29 EDT dbatiste7@... writes:
> I have had to take a test for every job I have applied for except for
> the one
> that I am employed with no

I've never had to take a test to get a job, but I had to take two tests
to get my California teaching credential (but none for the Arizona one).

The first one was ridiculously easy, I actually bought a book to study
for the second one but it turned out to be pretty easy, too, except for
the essay question about a target heart rate for a 14 yr old boy and the
"generally accepted formula" for finding it. Although now that I've been
working out I could probably get pretty close on that one... but back
then I was clueless.

Anyway, the book was pretty explicit about what one needed to know.

Dar

Fetteroll

on 5/24/02 1:10 PM, dbatiste7@... at dbatiste7@... wrote:

> Shouldn't they know how to do an excel spreadsheet?

When they need it, they will do it. :-)

Assuming of course they're able somehow to acquire the idea that such a
thing exists. (Which doesn't mean the only way is for us to show them.)

I've done a few of spreadsheets for my daughter. One has her allowance and
expenses on it. And since she was desperately trying to save for a GameCube
I said I'd give her weekly interest on her savings so she can see that being
calculated.

Another was a Hiragana/Katakana/Roman alphabet translator that I cobbled
together to help her translate Japanese Pokemon cards.

And a similar one to translate the elvish in the first Artemis Fowl book
into English.

We kept records of the weight gain in the kittens we were fostering and I
showed her how it could draw a chart of it for her. I wish we'd been more
diligent at it but the scale wasn't cooperative and the kittens didn't seem
interested in furthering our research ;-)

We have a checklist and pricelist of Pokemon cards.

A catalog of American Pokemon names along side Romaji versions of their
Japanese names and meanings/origins of the Japanese versions (as far as we
could tell.)

A list of digimon sortable by various categories.

I found one she did on her own of the creatures she's made up with checks
and x's of various colors next to the names for some mysterious known only
to her purpose.

(She's 10 by the way.)

Some of these are more traditionally databases, but it shows the flexibility
of spreadsheets.

She's also seen me type in calculations to figure things out.

> Add some information into Access

What's that? A database?

We have a database of Pokemon names in English, Romaji, Hiragana and
Katakana.

A rather cool catalog of pictures of all the second group of the Pokemon
that we captured from the internet and organized and then translated their
names into Romaji.

Another database of Digimon names in English, Romaji, Hiragana and Katakana.

> Do you think this is leaning towards forced learning if the
> child has no interest in those things?

They probably won't be interested just for the sake of acquiring knowledge
that someone suggests might be useful.

But they might be interested if they're shown how to use them for various
purposes that are personally meaningful like the ideas that naturally arose
above. None were planned to teach her how to use spreadsheets or databases.
We were just using those tools for real purposes. And using them for real
purposes and learning how as a side effect is much more learning-filled than
learning how they operate for "just in case" reasons.

> Most companies
> nowadays want someone who has this knowledge base of simple computer
> applications.

And lots of companies are desperate for people who can design webpages and
know Java which kids seem to acquire without us even knowing they exist!

> When something is funny, I laugh out loud or chuckle ever so
> slightly if something catches my attention or I agree with smacks on my leg.
> He then starts reading the book. Maybe this would work with the kids hey?
> Sounds like a good idea.

They might also catch on that they're being manipulated so I wouldn't use it
as a standard tactic ;-)

But doing the same because it's funny without the ulterior motive works
great. :-) It's how we share our lives and our values.

Joyce

rumpleteasermom

Hey Dee,

I realized that in all the discussion about whether or not tests
happen, no one has actually answered the original question which was
"how do you prepare your kids?"

I think that it is more important to prepare them emotionally for
tests than in an intellectual way. They need to know that even if
they blow a test entirely, it is just that, one test. It is not an
indicator of their entire being. That one little idea can make or
break a person's test taking ability due to the "nerve" factor.

Once they understand that, you can go on to different testing methods
if you really want to. Personally, I've encouraged mine to do lots of
puzzles. I like Dell Variety Puzzles best. This helps then develope
skills that have helped me lots in test taking.

Bridget

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., dbatiste7@a... wrote:
> I have had to take a test for every job I have applied for except
for the one
> that I am employed with now.
>
> When I worked for a bakery in Arkansas, I had to take a speed test
and a
> communications test with the temp agency. I had to prove that I
could
> communicate effectively and that I speed.
>
> Before being employed at a wiring company in Arkansas, that built
dashboards
> and radios for yachts in Cali...I had to be tested again in the same
manner
> as above.
>
> When applying at the shoe store and at Mervyns of Cali, I took a
test that
> asked me questions like, if you have 3 pairs of shoes and 1 shoe is
missing,
> do you leave the customer and find the other shoe or do you stay
with the
> customer and holler for someone to find the other shoe? Questions
that asked
> whether or not you have stolen before or if you would steal if you
had to do
> it for your family? Weird questions. And then there was the math
portion of
> it and the english portion of it *reading* So, even though these
were
> basically tests in regards to how you would work with the public and
your
> merit these may not be related to as tests for some people. These
are still
> tests. These were not taken with pencil and paper either. THey were
> administered on the computer. So, if your child has no computer
experience
> they should get some. The way technology is going we should all be
computer
> literate...dont you all think?
>
> Boy, I sure love this group.
>
> Thanks for having me!!!
>
> Dee
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/24/02 11:15:23 AM, dbatiste7@... writes:

<< Do you think this is leaning towards forced learning if the
child has no interest in those things? >>

Yes.

But "just playing games" on computers for these kids is worlds above all the
computer learning available thirty years ago, so I cannot BEGIN to worry
about my kids not being able to pick up the details and subtletlies of ANY
computer program if they ever need it for work.

Kirby (15) works where they have a computer program instead of a cash
register. He learned it by watching, mostly, and being shown the basics and
then asking questions. All on the job.

<<When something is funny, I laugh out loud or chuckle ever so
slightly if something catches my attention or I agree with smacks on my leg.
He then starts reading the book. Maybe this would work with the kids hey?
Sounds like a good idea.>>

It's a good idea to express yourself honestly and spontaneously, but if
you're dishonest and manipulative, expect the kids to learn that first and
THEN maybe the content of the book or computer program.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/24/2002 11:33:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rumpleteasermom@... writes:


> I realized that in all the discussion about whether or not tests
> happen, no one has actually answered the original question which was
> "how do you prepare your kids?"

I have found that confident kids don't have a problem when faced with a new
situation like taking a test, because they've faced enough new situations
that they can handle it.

My older daughters, who had never taken a test before, both go to college now
- at 17 and 14 - and both had to take their first school-type tests there.
They were nervous, of course, but they sailed through with flying colors and
quickly because pros at knowing what to expect on a test and how to study for
one, etc.

Same thing with writing essays and research papers - they learned to do it
when they needed to do it.No problem.

--pamS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/24/2002 12:01:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> <<When something is funny, I laugh out loud or chuckle ever so
> slightly if something catches my attention or I agree with smacks on my
> leg.
> He then starts reading the book. Maybe this would work with the kids hey?
> Sounds like a good idea.>>
>
> It's a good idea to express yourself honestly and spontaneously, but if
> you're dishonest and manipulative, expect the kids to learn that first and
> THEN maybe the content of the book or computer program.

I think people sometimes think that they have to do something to get kids to
want to learn.

What unschoolers discover is that kids really truly are compulsive learners -
when obstacles are removed, they can't help it - they have an internal drive
to learn - an urge to learn so strong and pervasive that they cannot resist
it.

The "un" in "unschooling" - is, to me, really about removing all those
obstacles that are so typical in schools and also extremely common among
homeschoolers. The focus of unschooling is creating the space and freedom for
kids to do what comes naturally to them - to learn - as opposed to finding
ways to make the kids learn or even to make them want to learn. It is a
different mindset.

--pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/24/02 11:23:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:


> They might also catch on that they're being manipulated so I wouldn't use it
> as a standard tactic ;-)
>
> But doing the same because it's funny without the ulterior motive works
> great. :-) It's how we share our lives and our values.
>

May not work for the kids, but sure works for the BIG KID! Hubby is great. He
supports me and tries to do what he can to help me homeschool, but really he
has no clue. So, this is how he reads and finds out what my dilemmas are and
he is ready to help me.

I can truly see where this is manipulative...Sheesh...Joyce...do I have to
give it up...he'll never read again :D

Dee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/24/02 11:33:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rumpleteasermom@... writes:


> I think that it is more important to prepare them emotionally for
> tests than in an intellectual way. They need to know that even if
> they blow a test entirely, it is just that, one test. It is not an
> indicator of their entire being. That one little idea can make or
> break a person's test taking ability due to the "nerve" factor.
>

This is great. I thin that it is important to prepare them emotionally as
well. As everyone can see, I just about agree with everyone...I am easy to
get along with ;0)

I remember growing up and thinking that I must be the biggest dummy in all of
the world. My father would ridicule me if I got a bad grade and so I would
never try to just come right out and tell him if I passed or failed. It was
always information that was given to him through progress reports or through
my teacher when I was just doing absolutely terrible and she felt as though
she should tell everyone about my shortcomings.

Explaining to my oldest children that they are still being all that they can
be even if they fail on a test makes them feel a little more comfortable
about it all. As I have stated before, working at a school has offered many
opportunities to see things differently. I saw teachers literally keep the
children in at lunch time and during break time if they did not do well on a
test. Or some lamo quiz that they just thought of just because they wanted to
see if the children were paying attention in class. This is not right! Just
because someone fails doesn't mean that there is something wrong with them,
it merely means that the teacher needs to find a way to interest the child.

It makes me mad when parents send their children to school and have no clue
as to what the child is doing and then all of a sudden when the child begins
to fail a test or some other form of record for achievement they want to blow
their tops.

I am so grateful for this group. I have learned so much in the past week. I
have learned from everyone here. We all have our differences but it is as
though there is a wealth of knowledge located here on this board and I am
grateful for it. It is helping me make my decision easier.

Thank you again!!

Grateful Dee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>Sometimes we think of computer experience as sending e-mail, drawing on paint
>and things of that nature. I am speaking of the other computer programs as
>well. Don't you think that kids these days should do more than just play
>games on the comp? Shouldn't they know how to do an excel spreadsheet? Add
>some information into Access and all of that good stuff.

I don't know how to do either of those things. But I've taught myself lots
of other programs. I don't imagine it would be hard to learn those . . .
if I had a reason to.

>Most companies
>nowadays want someone who has this knowledge base of simple computer
>applications. Do you think this is leaning towards forced learning if the
>child has no interest in those things?

Yes, if you're making them do it. They can learn those things very quickly
when they have a real use for them.


>This may be off a bit...my hubby has no interest in reading. But if there is
>something that I want him to read, I read it around him and engulf myself in
>the book. When something is funny, I laugh out loud or chuckle ever so
>slightly if something catches my attention or I agree with smacks on my leg.
>He then starts reading the book. Maybe this would work with the kids hey?
>Sounds like a good idea.

I leave them in the bathroom. Works for both hubby and son. <g>
Not that they always read what I leave there. Just that they're more
likely to.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/24/2002 10:15:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dbatiste7@... writes:


> Sometimes we think of computer experience as sending e-mail, drawing on
> paint
> and things of that nature. I am speaking of the other computer programs as
> well. Don't you think that kids these days should do more than just play
> games on the comp? Shouldn't they know how to do an excel spreadsheet? Add
> some information into Access and all of that good stuff. Most companies
> nowadays want someone who has this knowledge base of simple computer
> applications. Do you think this is leaning towards forced learning if the
> child has no interest in those things?

By the time our kids are using computers in work situations, excel
spreadsheets and Access databases, etc., are pretty likely to be passe.

I was once a cobol and fortran programmer. Fat lot of good that does me now <
BEG>.

--pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

writing4health

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., dbatiste7@a... wrote:
> Sometimes we think of computer experience as sending e-mail,
drawing on paint
> and things of that nature. I am speaking of the other computer
programs as
> well. Don't you think that kids these days should do more than just
play
> games on the comp? Shouldn't they know how to do an excel
spreadsheet? Add
> some information into Access and all of that good stuff. Most
companies
> nowadays want someone who has this knowledge base of simple
computer
> applications. Do you think this is leaning towards forced learning
if the
> child has no interest in those things?
>
> This may be off a bit...my hubby has no interest in reading. But if
there is
> something that I want him to read, I read it around him and engulf
myself in
> the book. When something is funny, I laugh out loud or chuckle ever
so
> slightly if something catches my attention or I agree with smacks
on my leg.
> He then starts reading the book. Maybe this would work with the
kids hey?
> Sounds like a good idea.
>
> Dee
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]