Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Spelling & college
Fetteroll
on 5/6/02 11:02 AM, Betty Holder at ninnyridge03@... wrote:
college for a specific path to a specific end, if it's done as the next step
after high school and, as the kids have learned over the 12 years, the
purpose is to get through it in the easiest way possible, then they aren't
taking advantage of it. They're just riding the train they've been told will
take them to success.
But if someone is going to college is to explore the world in a different
way, then it can be a great place even if it doesn't directly lead to
someting practical. (Though of course no learning is ever wasted.)
Joyce
> But to go to college just for the sake of going to college, to me is a grossI think it depends on the reason for going to college. Setting aside using
> waste of time, money and INTELLIGENCE!.
college for a specific path to a specific end, if it's done as the next step
after high school and, as the kids have learned over the 12 years, the
purpose is to get through it in the easiest way possible, then they aren't
taking advantage of it. They're just riding the train they've been told will
take them to success.
But if someone is going to college is to explore the world in a different
way, then it can be a great place even if it doesn't directly lead to
someting practical. (Though of course no learning is ever wasted.)
Joyce
rumpleteasermom
Well, I go to college because I enjoy it. If dh goes back to work for
the university, I'll take classes again because they are free (except
the books). If we ever have enough extra money, I'd go and pay for
it.
I can't even really say what it is I enjoy about it, I just do!
Bridget
the university, I'll take classes again because they are free (except
the books). If we ever have enough extra money, I'd go and pay for
it.
I can't even really say what it is I enjoy about it, I just do!
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Fetteroll <fetteroll@e...> wrote:
>
> But if someone is going to college is to explore the world in a
different
> way, then it can be a great place even if it doesn't directly lead
to
> someting practical. (Though of course no learning is ever wasted.)
>
> Joyce
Betty Holder
I just sat down to read my emails from the weekend and haven't read past Joyce's comments because I just had to stop and make a few myself
I know of several young peoiple who have gone into college right after HS then come out and do something entirely different with their lives while paying off the debt of student loans for studying something that means NOTHING to them now! DOES THIS MAKE SOME KIND OF SENSE THAT I MISSED???
I don't care if my son goes to college or not!! I do care that he will be able to do something with his life that makes him happy. If that means college in order to achieve that then I'll do all I can to help him. If it means Technical school, so be it. Whatever! But to go to college just for the sake of going to college, to me is a gross waste of time, money and INTELLIGENCE!.
High Schools do not teach children to think for themselves. They are not allowed to reason anything outside of a textbook. Some are not ready, academically OR mature enough , to take on deciding what they're going to do with the rest of their lives. They've never been allowed to think about what they REALLY want to do. Only what's EXPECTED of them.
What joy is there in being young if you are in college by the ripe old age of 15 and by the time you finish you're BARELY old enough to enter the work force. Seems to me they going to miss some really great years when they could have been KIDS!
Betty
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Some people --How true. as I stated before in a message, my ds was an A student because we worked at MEMORIZING the words. Not because he knew how too spell. One teacher told me he would probably never be a good speller because if a child is going to be a good speller it happens at the beginning - they either spell good or they don't. Another teacher told me that he's not a good speller because he never ABSORBED the phonics of spelling, that anybody can spell good if the phonics are taught EARLY. Well, in my opinion he doesn't spell because he doesn't yet see the importance of doing it. He is 14 and still spells the way words sound. That doesn't bother him and FINALLY it doesn't bother me.
>people who were "taught" to spell in school -- can't.
>But what's the rush? What great enhancement to their joy >in life will theyAt our church there are a couple of kids graduating from public High School this year. I ask one of the boys what he planned to do afterwards and he siad, ":Well, I guess I'll go to college" I asked what he planned to major in and he said " I think math and my mionr will be religion" I said "oh, that's interesting what are you palnning to do with that when you finish? Teach?" He said, "Oh, Gosh no, I don't know what I want to do yet. Math is just something that I like and thought would be easy and studying religion is just something I thought I might gst a kick out of."
>have if they enter college at 15 instead of 18 (or 20 or >25)? Is it a
>competition to get as many work years in as possible >before retirement
I know of several young peoiple who have gone into college right after HS then come out and do something entirely different with their lives while paying off the debt of student loans for studying something that means NOTHING to them now! DOES THIS MAKE SOME KIND OF SENSE THAT I MISSED???
I don't care if my son goes to college or not!! I do care that he will be able to do something with his life that makes him happy. If that means college in order to achieve that then I'll do all I can to help him. If it means Technical school, so be it. Whatever! But to go to college just for the sake of going to college, to me is a gross waste of time, money and INTELLIGENCE!.
High Schools do not teach children to think for themselves. They are not allowed to reason anything outside of a textbook. Some are not ready, academically OR mature enough , to take on deciding what they're going to do with the rest of their lives. They've never been allowed to think about what they REALLY want to do. Only what's EXPECTED of them.
What joy is there in being young if you are in college by the ripe old age of 15 and by the time you finish you're BARELY old enough to enter the work force. Seems to me they going to miss some really great years when they could have been KIDS!
Betty
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/6/02 6:05:36 AM, ninnyridge03@... writes:
<< High Schools do not teach children to think for themselves. >>
Neither do colleges, in general. I remember MANY times giving the professor
the answer he wanted instead of the answer I thought was best. I didn't
start off that way, but I looked around and realized those were the rules of
the game. When I DID get brave after that, it was in class discussions, not
on tests or papers, pretty much.
College loans are no joke, and it's pretty well known that older students do
better, get better grades, waste less time dropping classes, etc., than
teenagers do.
Sandra
<< High Schools do not teach children to think for themselves. >>
Neither do colleges, in general. I remember MANY times giving the professor
the answer he wanted instead of the answer I thought was best. I didn't
start off that way, but I looked around and realized those were the rules of
the game. When I DID get brave after that, it was in class discussions, not
on tests or papers, pretty much.
College loans are no joke, and it's pretty well known that older students do
better, get better grades, waste less time dropping classes, etc., than
teenagers do.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/6/02 8:10:27 AM, ninnyridge03@... writes:
<< Exactly. I wasn't knocking going to college in general. But my
reference was for those who put themselves through 4 years and sometimes
enormous debt only to find out later that they really want to do something
else entirely. >>
Same here. Heck, if it's free, live there!!!
If it's costing as much as a house and a car would (with similar interest
accruing), DON'T live there!
<<One is taught to strive to get into a good college and they work toward
that, when deep down inside what they really want to do doesn't REQUIRE 4
years of college. Am I making myself clear on what I'm trying to say? >>
It seems clear to me.
Isn't this the horrible dilemma of a lot of literature of the past 200 years?
Someone whose family expects them to go to college would be a failure if he
just declared up front that he really wants to be a bicycle repairman, or a
sculptor. The family would still probably press for him to take engineering
or fine arts, and he would be four years behind schedule AND thousands of
dollars in debt just for doing what "is always done."
College doesn't have such a sterline reputation anyway. It's where lots of
people have gone and met their first drug dealers, con artists, abusers.
Also where many have met the loves of their lives (human or philosophical),
and their first mentors and greatest books and ideas. It's hard for young
women now to realize to what extent in the not so distant past teenaged girls
were sent to college to get married. "Getting her 'MRS' degree" was common
into the 1960's and might still be common. Lots of girls were expected to
drop out once they were engaged, since they weren't going to work anyway, but
that way they had met a college boy instead of a hometown future-grocer.
Sandra
<< Exactly. I wasn't knocking going to college in general. But my
reference was for those who put themselves through 4 years and sometimes
enormous debt only to find out later that they really want to do something
else entirely. >>
Same here. Heck, if it's free, live there!!!
If it's costing as much as a house and a car would (with similar interest
accruing), DON'T live there!
<<One is taught to strive to get into a good college and they work toward
that, when deep down inside what they really want to do doesn't REQUIRE 4
years of college. Am I making myself clear on what I'm trying to say? >>
It seems clear to me.
Isn't this the horrible dilemma of a lot of literature of the past 200 years?
Someone whose family expects them to go to college would be a failure if he
just declared up front that he really wants to be a bicycle repairman, or a
sculptor. The family would still probably press for him to take engineering
or fine arts, and he would be four years behind schedule AND thousands of
dollars in debt just for doing what "is always done."
College doesn't have such a sterline reputation anyway. It's where lots of
people have gone and met their first drug dealers, con artists, abusers.
Also where many have met the loves of their lives (human or philosophical),
and their first mentors and greatest books and ideas. It's hard for young
women now to realize to what extent in the not so distant past teenaged girls
were sent to college to get married. "Getting her 'MRS' degree" was common
into the 1960's and might still be common. Lots of girls were expected to
drop out once they were engaged, since they weren't going to work anyway, but
that way they had met a college boy instead of a hometown future-grocer.
Sandra
hazy_lilly
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Betty Holder" <ninnyridge03@p...>
wrote:
sometimes enormous debt only to find out later that they really want
to do something else entirely.
Some people do go to college without realizing what they want to
do. Many of the people that go to college see it as big party.
Many of them cut loose and party until they realize they have to
start studying if they want to stay in college. Then many of them
realize it is like highschool all over, there are many require
courses to take such math, writing, english, history, ect. You also
get a governmental isolated point of view on many of the subjects of
colleges, such as history,sociology, business and others. This
turns into a moral issue for some people, where college is no longer
what they are seeking. When people start to realize that many of
there opinions are not taken inconsideration, they are back to
square one. College is not for everyone. some people perfer to go
to trade schools, where they can learn occupation without the extra
courses.
Then there is the group that goes to college and enjoys the whole
experience. Some of them move on to have what they call productive
live, others realize that they took a different turn than what they
desired.
Hazel
Learning is never wasted, true, no matter what it is, but if a
person applied themselves those 4 years to doing what they truely
loved and was really interested in it would make a lot more sense to
me.
system tells them what they are to learn and when without any
thought to what the PERSON really is interested in doing. Such
training leads to a waste of time in getting where they really want
to go. But this is something they find out years later. One is
taught to strive to get into a good college and they work toward
that, when deep down inside what they really want to do doesn't
REQUIRE 4 years of college. Am I making myself clear on what I'm
trying to say? I'm not putting college down. I guess I'm just
saying it's not for everyone, even for some who spent years going.
wrote:
>aside using
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fetteroll
> To: Unschooling-dotcom@y...
> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 5:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Spelling & college
>
>
> >I think it depends on the reason for going to college. Setting
> college for a specific path to a specific end, if it's done asthe next step
> after high school and, as the kids have learned over the 12years, the
> purpose is to get through it in the easiest way possible, thenthey aren't
> taking advantage of it. They're just riding the train they'vebeen told will
> take them to success.reference was for those who put themselves through 4 years and
>
> Exactly. I wasn't knocking going to college in general. But my
sometimes enormous debt only to find out later that they really want
to do something else entirely.
Some people do go to college without realizing what they want to
do. Many of the people that go to college see it as big party.
Many of them cut loose and party until they realize they have to
start studying if they want to stay in college. Then many of them
realize it is like highschool all over, there are many require
courses to take such math, writing, english, history, ect. You also
get a governmental isolated point of view on many of the subjects of
colleges, such as history,sociology, business and others. This
turns into a moral issue for some people, where college is no longer
what they are seeking. When people start to realize that many of
there opinions are not taken inconsideration, they are back to
square one. College is not for everyone. some people perfer to go
to trade schools, where they can learn occupation without the extra
courses.
Then there is the group that goes to college and enjoys the whole
experience. Some of them move on to have what they call productive
live, others realize that they took a different turn than what they
desired.
Hazel
Learning is never wasted, true, no matter what it is, but if a
person applied themselves those 4 years to doing what they truely
loved and was really interested in it would make a lot more sense to
me.
> But my real point is that students in public school are notCONDITIONED to think about whay they're really interested in. The
system tells them what they are to learn and when without any
thought to what the PERSON really is interested in doing. Such
training leads to a waste of time in getting where they really want
to go. But this is something they find out years later. One is
taught to strive to get into a good college and they work toward
that, when deep down inside what they really want to do doesn't
REQUIRE 4 years of college. Am I making myself clear on what I'm
trying to say? I'm not putting college down. I guess I'm just
saying it's not for everyone, even for some who spent years going.
>line! ~~~
> Betty
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Fetteroll
on 5/6/02 2:51 PM, Jennifer Ackerman at edje4him@... wrote:
college, the expectations of the standard route of high
school-college-career.
What it isn't -- but what society kind of suggests that it is -- is an
*automatic* stepping stone to a successful career. Kids enter thinking all
they have to do is get into a good college, study whatever degree is easiest
or leads to "good jobs" and they're set for life.
People were just trying to get you to question the validity of the thought
process that led you to say:
could do what they wanted and enter college at 15, *not* how the next teen
or the younger ones were going to accomplish this.
No, it's perfectly possible they could have. If that was their desire,
there's no reason they couldn't have taken community college courses, gotten
a tutor, found resources to learn on their own, pursued various community
projects, volunteer work, paid work to gain experience in the fields they
wanted to go into.
For instance your creative writing daughter could have offered classes to
homeschoolers or kids in the community, written articles about homeschooling
(or creative writing or whatever) for the local paper. Your youth minister
son could have done scounting, charity work, manned a hot line.
(Maybe they did do that.)
What particular areas do you think a college would have found them lacking
in had they unschooled? We can probably give you some ideas on how they
might have pusued them.
Joyce
> Sounds to me that you all are blasting college. I just don't see it beingNo, no one is blasting college. Just blasting the standard expectations of
> that bad.
college, the expectations of the standard route of high
school-college-career.
> Well I'll have to disagree with you about not learning in college.College is a great place to learn. :-)
What it isn't -- but what society kind of suggests that it is -- is an
*automatic* stepping stone to a successful career. Kids enter thinking all
they have to do is get into a good college, study whatever degree is easiest
or leads to "good jobs" and they're set for life.
People were just trying to get you to question the validity of the thought
process that led you to say:
> My first two*But* I can see where I misread that. You questioned how your *first 2*
> entered college at 15 and I just can't see that happening with the
> "relaxed" mindset.
could do what they wanted and enter college at 15, *not* how the next teen
or the younger ones were going to accomplish this.
No, it's perfectly possible they could have. If that was their desire,
there's no reason they couldn't have taken community college courses, gotten
a tutor, found resources to learn on their own, pursued various community
projects, volunteer work, paid work to gain experience in the fields they
wanted to go into.
For instance your creative writing daughter could have offered classes to
homeschoolers or kids in the community, written articles about homeschooling
(or creative writing or whatever) for the local paper. Your youth minister
son could have done scounting, charity work, manned a hot line.
(Maybe they did do that.)
What particular areas do you think a college would have found them lacking
in had they unschooled? We can probably give you some ideas on how they
might have pusued them.
Joyce
[email protected]
<<It's quite joyful when they're doing it on their own.>>
Absolutely.
I think these things are in response to someone worrying because one child
wasn't going to college at 15, when someone else did. And from people saying
if you couldn't spell and write well you couldn't go to college (or whatever
all was said).
I went at 16, from choice, and did have a great time, and did know what I
wanted to accomplish with a degree, and went and did that at the age of 21.
Most of the people I was in school with then were there because their parents
wanted them to be, had gone 2000 miles from home just to get away from their
parents, were wasting their parents' money not going to class, and didn't
know what they wanted to study or do with it.
<< Sounds to me that you all are blasting college. I just don't see it being
that bad. >>
What's bad about it is when people go for no good reason, or when parents use
it to make them do things, use it as a lure, and a boogey-man. "You have to
do book reports so you can get into college" or "If you're good and 'finish
this homeschooling' you can go to college!"
And shaming a kid who says "I want to work at the video store for a while and
maybe to to college later" isn't the greatest thing for parents to do. MANY
families press kids to go to college whether the kids actually want to or
not. Or the kids have gathered over the years that their lives are leading
toward that as a goal. And college itself shouldn't be a goal.
Sandra
Absolutely.
I think these things are in response to someone worrying because one child
wasn't going to college at 15, when someone else did. And from people saying
if you couldn't spell and write well you couldn't go to college (or whatever
all was said).
I went at 16, from choice, and did have a great time, and did know what I
wanted to accomplish with a degree, and went and did that at the age of 21.
Most of the people I was in school with then were there because their parents
wanted them to be, had gone 2000 miles from home just to get away from their
parents, were wasting their parents' money not going to class, and didn't
know what they wanted to study or do with it.
<< Sounds to me that you all are blasting college. I just don't see it being
that bad. >>
What's bad about it is when people go for no good reason, or when parents use
it to make them do things, use it as a lure, and a boogey-man. "You have to
do book reports so you can get into college" or "If you're good and 'finish
this homeschooling' you can go to college!"
And shaming a kid who says "I want to work at the video store for a while and
maybe to to college later" isn't the greatest thing for parents to do. MANY
families press kids to go to college whether the kids actually want to or
not. Or the kids have gathered over the years that their lives are leading
toward that as a goal. And college itself shouldn't be a goal.
Sandra
Betty Holder
----- Original Message -----
From: Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Spelling & college
>I think it depends on the reason for going to college. Setting aside using
college for a specific path to a specific end, if it's done as the next step
after high school and, as the kids have learned over the 12 years, the
purpose is to get through it in the easiest way possible, then they aren't
taking advantage of it. They're just riding the train they've been told will
take them to success.
Exactly. I wasn't knocking going to college in general. But my reference was for those who put themselves through 4 years and sometimes enormous debt only to find out later that they really want to do something else entirely. Learning is never wasted, true, no matter what it is, but if a person applied themselves those 4 years to doing what they truely loved and was really interested in it would make a lot more sense to me.
But my real point is that students in public school are not CONDITIONED to think about whay they're really interested in. The system tells them what they are to learn and when without any thought to what the PERSON really is interested in doing. Such training leads to a waste of time in getting where they really want to go. But this is something they find out years later. One is taught to strive to get into a good college and they work toward that, when deep down inside what they really want to do doesn't REQUIRE 4 years of college. Am I making myself clear on what I'm trying to say? I'm not putting college down. I guess I'm just saying it's not for everyone, even for some who spent years going.
Betty
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Ackerman
Well I'll have to disagree with you about not learning in college. I've
seen great growth and accumulation of knowledge in the 3 yrs of college
that my 18yr. old has been, and 2 yrs for my 17yr old. Guess it might
depend on the professor and/or college.
You're right about college loans....my 18yr owes $1200.00 which she plans
on paying off with her job next summer, and my 17yr hasn't put out a penny
for his....including his books. Since we have a large family, it was
understood that whoever chose to go to college would have to pay their own
way. It's worked out great...
Jenn :-)
At 11:10 AM 5/6/2002 EDT, you wrote:
seen great growth and accumulation of knowledge in the 3 yrs of college
that my 18yr. old has been, and 2 yrs for my 17yr old. Guess it might
depend on the professor and/or college.
You're right about college loans....my 18yr owes $1200.00 which she plans
on paying off with her job next summer, and my 17yr hasn't put out a penny
for his....including his books. Since we have a large family, it was
understood that whoever chose to go to college would have to pay their own
way. It's worked out great...
Jenn :-)
At 11:10 AM 5/6/2002 EDT, you wrote:
>of
> In a message dated 5/6/02 6:05:36 AM, ninnyridge03@... writes:
>
><< >>
>
> I remember MANY times giving the professor
> I didn't
> start off that way, but I looked around and realized those were the rules
> When I DID get brave after that, it was in class discussions, notdo
> on tests or papers, pretty much.
>
> College loans are no joke, and it's pretty well known that older students
> better, get better grades, waste less time dropping classes, etc., than
> teenagers do.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Jennifer Ackerman
<What joy is there in being young if you are in college by the ripe old age
of 15 and by the time you finish you're BARELY old enough to enter the work
force. Seems to me they going to miss some really great years when they
could have been KIDS!>
It's quite joyful when they're doing it on their own. I think all of you
are misunderstanding me.....They CHOSE to go to college at that age and I
didn't stand in their way. My son is planning on being a youth
minister...he already knows that and is working towards that end with his
degree. My daughter wants to teach creative writing classes to
homeschoolers....she's also working towards that end. She also plans to
homeschool her children when she marries and has them!!! :), and is
convinced that's the best option for education.
Sounds to me that you all are blasting college. I just don't see it being
that bad. And btw, they both have jobs and incomes right now at 17 and 18,
and have been working since they were at the "ripe old age" of 15.
Jenn :-)
of 15 and by the time you finish you're BARELY old enough to enter the work
force. Seems to me they going to miss some really great years when they
could have been KIDS!>
It's quite joyful when they're doing it on their own. I think all of you
are misunderstanding me.....They CHOSE to go to college at that age and I
didn't stand in their way. My son is planning on being a youth
minister...he already knows that and is working towards that end with his
degree. My daughter wants to teach creative writing classes to
homeschoolers....she's also working towards that end. She also plans to
homeschool her children when she marries and has them!!! :), and is
convinced that's the best option for education.
Sounds to me that you all are blasting college. I just don't see it being
that bad. And btw, they both have jobs and incomes right now at 17 and 18,
and have been working since they were at the "ripe old age" of 15.
Jenn :-)
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/6/2002 9:38:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
sorry I was absent for a lot of this discussion and I apologize if I'm asking
you to repeat yourself, but why did you think that wasn't likely to happen
with a relaxed mindset?
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> > My first twoMy first unschooled kiddo entered college at 13 and my second one at 14. I'm
> > entered college at 15 and I just can't see that happening with the
> > "relaxed" mindset.
>
sorry I was absent for a lot of this discussion and I apologize if I'm asking
you to repeat yourself, but why did you think that wasn't likely to happen
with a relaxed mindset?
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/6/2002 5:26:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
know what they want to do, yet) - because they think of college as an
AMAZINGLY rich environment filled with interesting things and people who are
passionate about all kinds of stuff and willing to SHARE that with an
interested kid. My oldest daughter came home one day, when she was about 14,
and said, "I just can't BELIEVE there are all these PEOPLE there who know so
much and they are getting PAID to share it with students."
Since then she's run into a few bad teachers - but really, for the most part,
she's had incredibly good teachers who inspired her and really have passions
and are there to share them. AND - this is a community college. It costs $11
per unit for an 18-week semester. A typical class is three units - so it is
typically $33 for each class. Full-time attendance - 12 or 15 units would be
well under $200 per semester, so we're not talking about big bucks.
My oldest daughter has spent a year and a half on a debate team - that was a
WONDERFUL and challenging experience. She has been in two different vocal
performance groups - jazz and musical theater. She designed lighting for a
dance concert and ran the light board for a number of plays and other
performances. She's had her mural photographs displayed at a Laguna Beach
gallery. She's taken 8 semesters of ceramics, gotten a good job because of
her ceramics expertise and twice been invited to the home of Paul Soldner
(known as the Father of American Raku). All of these opportunities came about
because of going to community college.
There are so many opportunities on our college campus - and we have a little
tiny not-particularly-spectacular community college. My second daughter is
now just getting involved there - she is learning website design and computer
programming from a man who is a GREAT teacher - she's thrilled with his
ability to help her "get" things that she's read but not thoroughly
understood. She has an opera class - learning about opera, not performing it
- from a young woman who sings opera herself and gets her students lots of
discounted tickets to all kinds of musicals and operas and other singing
performances. We saw "The Magic Flute" a few weeks ago at the Los Angeles
Music Center and we have tickets for Camelot in a couple of weeks. Also, her
beginning voice class is collaborating with a sound recording class to make a
class cd. She is having a GREAT time!!
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> > But to go to college just for the sake of going to college, to me is aMy kids go just for the sake of going to college though (meaning they don't
> gross
> > waste of time, money and INTELLIGENCE!.
know what they want to do, yet) - because they think of college as an
AMAZINGLY rich environment filled with interesting things and people who are
passionate about all kinds of stuff and willing to SHARE that with an
interested kid. My oldest daughter came home one day, when she was about 14,
and said, "I just can't BELIEVE there are all these PEOPLE there who know so
much and they are getting PAID to share it with students."
Since then she's run into a few bad teachers - but really, for the most part,
she's had incredibly good teachers who inspired her and really have passions
and are there to share them. AND - this is a community college. It costs $11
per unit for an 18-week semester. A typical class is three units - so it is
typically $33 for each class. Full-time attendance - 12 or 15 units would be
well under $200 per semester, so we're not talking about big bucks.
My oldest daughter has spent a year and a half on a debate team - that was a
WONDERFUL and challenging experience. She has been in two different vocal
performance groups - jazz and musical theater. She designed lighting for a
dance concert and ran the light board for a number of plays and other
performances. She's had her mural photographs displayed at a Laguna Beach
gallery. She's taken 8 semesters of ceramics, gotten a good job because of
her ceramics expertise and twice been invited to the home of Paul Soldner
(known as the Father of American Raku). All of these opportunities came about
because of going to community college.
There are so many opportunities on our college campus - and we have a little
tiny not-particularly-spectacular community college. My second daughter is
now just getting involved there - she is learning website design and computer
programming from a man who is a GREAT teacher - she's thrilled with his
ability to help her "get" things that she's read but not thoroughly
understood. She has an opera class - learning about opera, not performing it
- from a young woman who sings opera herself and gets her students lots of
discounted tickets to all kinds of musicals and operas and other singing
performances. We saw "The Magic Flute" a few weeks ago at the Los Angeles
Music Center and we have tickets for Camelot in a couple of weeks. Also, her
beginning voice class is collaborating with a sound recording class to make a
class cd. She is having a GREAT time!!
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Jennifer Ackerman <edje4him@s...>
wrote:
can't afford it.
My girls want to go eventually, but they are in no rush. If yours are
going now because they want to, that's great. I think it would have
been a mistake for Rachel to go earlier. She talked about it a few
times but never pursued it enough to make it happen. Looking back, I
think that was a good thing. She's had time to learn to deal with her
depression without any extra pressure.
So what kind of jobs do your have? Rachel is looking right now but
she is kind of picky so it's taking a little time.
Bridget
wrote:
> Sounds to me that you all are blasting college. I just don't see itbeing
> that bad. And btw, they both have jobs and incomes right now at 17and 18,
> and have been working since they were at the "ripe old age" of 15.I'm not. I LOVE college! The only reason I don't go now is because we
>
> Jenn :-)
can't afford it.
My girls want to go eventually, but they are in no rush. If yours are
going now because they want to, that's great. I think it would have
been a mistake for Rachel to go earlier. She talked about it a few
times but never pursued it enough to make it happen. Looking back, I
think that was a good thing. She's had time to learn to deal with her
depression without any extra pressure.
So what kind of jobs do your have? Rachel is looking right now but
she is kind of picky so it's taking a little time.
Bridget
joanna514
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Jennifer Ackerman <edje4him@s...>
wrote:
learning that occurs in college. I had to pay for it myself. The
difference in my attitude from high school to college was drastic.
Joanna
wrote:
> Well I'll have to disagree with you about not learning in college.I've
> seen great growth and accumulation of knowledge in the 3 yrs ofcollege
> that my 18yr. old has been, and 2 yrs for my 17yr old. Guess itmight
> depend on the professor and/or college.plans
>
> You're right about college loans....my 18yr owes $1200.00 which she
> on paying off with her job next summer, and my 17yr hasn't put outa penny
> for his....including his books. Since we have a large family, itwas
> understood that whoever chose to go to college would have to paytheir own
> way. It's worked out great...I think paying for it yourself is a major factor in the growth and
>
> Jenn :-)
>
>
learning that occurs in college. I had to pay for it myself. The
difference in my attitude from high school to college was drastic.
Joanna
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/7/02 1:18:44 PM, edje4him@... writes:
<< Since I have been relaxed with my 16yo, her progress has significantly
slowed. She's very immature, inconsistant, and manipulative. I don't see
these are good qualities in the process of maturing. >>
It's possible she had built up some frustrations and resentments. Those will
come out somehow, someday, and blaming her for it doesn't seem mature or
realistic.
And maybe she's just immature (not a crime), inconsistent (most people are,
if you look at them from all angles), and perhaps the two of you haven't
discovered a good means of intercommunication with which she can get her
points across and get her way without you taking it personally.
Sandra
<< Since I have been relaxed with my 16yo, her progress has significantly
slowed. She's very immature, inconsistant, and manipulative. I don't see
these are good qualities in the process of maturing. >>
It's possible she had built up some frustrations and resentments. Those will
come out somehow, someday, and blaming her for it doesn't seem mature or
realistic.
And maybe she's just immature (not a crime), inconsistent (most people are,
if you look at them from all angles), and perhaps the two of you haven't
discovered a good means of intercommunication with which she can get her
points across and get her way without you taking it personally.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/7/2002 12:18:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
edje4him@... writes:
So you've been imposing structure (in terms of education, I mean) on the kid
her whole life and then suddenly you've relaxed it and you're surprised when
the kid makes little progress in the areas that were previously being
imposed? Or not surprised, but unhappy?
It was predictable. Not sure what you expected or why you expected something
different.
I'd separate learning issues from interpersonal (attitude) issues.
Read "The Parent-Teen Breakthrough."
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
edje4him@... writes:
> Since I have been relaxed with my 16yo, her progress has significantlyWell - being immature is a part of the process of maturing, for sure.
> slowed. She's very immature, inconsistant, and manipulative. I don't see
> these are good qualities in the process of maturing.
So you've been imposing structure (in terms of education, I mean) on the kid
her whole life and then suddenly you've relaxed it and you're surprised when
the kid makes little progress in the areas that were previously being
imposed? Or not surprised, but unhappy?
It was predictable. Not sure what you expected or why you expected something
different.
I'd separate learning issues from interpersonal (attitude) issues.
Read "The Parent-Teen Breakthrough."
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Ackerman
My 18yod works at Kinko's every Sat. and during the summer. My 17yos works
for a painting company Sat. during the day and Sonic Sat. night until 11pm.
They're both making $7.50+ per hour so it's giving them some spending
money and also enough to pay for their car insurance and gas. BTW we
donated $1000 to each of them towards a car and they both were able to
purchase their own rather quickly. My daughter drives a 4 door Honda
Accord and my son a Honda CRX.
Jenn :-)
for a painting company Sat. during the day and Sonic Sat. night until 11pm.
They're both making $7.50+ per hour so it's giving them some spending
money and also enough to pay for their car insurance and gas. BTW we
donated $1000 to each of them towards a car and they both were able to
purchase their own rather quickly. My daughter drives a 4 door Honda
Accord and my son a Honda CRX.
Jenn :-)
Jennifer Ackerman
Since I have been relaxed with my 16yo, her progress has significantly
slowed. She's very immature, inconsistant, and manipulative. I don't see
these are good qualities in the process of maturing.
Jenn :-)
At 04:23 PM 5/6/2002 EDT, you wrote:
slowed. She's very immature, inconsistant, and manipulative. I don't see
these are good qualities in the process of maturing.
Jenn :-)
At 04:23 PM 5/6/2002 EDT, you wrote:
> In a message dated 5/6/2002 9:38:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,I'm
> fetteroll@... writes:
>
>
>>> My first two
>>> entered college at 15 and I just can't see that happening with the
>>>"" mindset.
>>
>
> My first unschooled kiddo entered college at 13 and my second one at 14.
> sorry I was absent for a lot of this discussion and I apologize if I'masking
> you to repeat yourself, but why did you think that wasn't likely to happen
> with a relaxed mindset?
>
> --pam
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Jennifer Ackerman <edje4him@s...>
wrote:
yours just need to vent it a bit.
As for mine, her name is Jenni BTW, she is the middle child. Both her
older sister and younger brother have had some rather serious problems
this past year and I've had health problems too. She has been a saint
through most of it and now she says it's her turn to be the bitch.
I'll let a lot of it go for a while because she is right. She's been
handling way more than her share and now she needs this.
I don't think being a bitch is necessarily a quality I would want her
to keep, but I understand why she needs it right now and I know she
will outgrow it if we give her some space.
Bridget
wrote:
> Since I have been relaxed with my 16yo, her progress hassignificantly
> slowed. She's very immature, inconsistant, and manipulative. Idon't see
> these are good qualities in the process of maturing.I have a 14 1/2 yo dd going through a bit of phase right now. Maybe
>
> Jenn :-)
yours just need to vent it a bit.
As for mine, her name is Jenni BTW, she is the middle child. Both her
older sister and younger brother have had some rather serious problems
this past year and I've had health problems too. She has been a saint
through most of it and now she says it's her turn to be the bitch.
I'll let a lot of it go for a while because she is right. She's been
handling way more than her share and now she needs this.
I don't think being a bitch is necessarily a quality I would want her
to keep, but I understand why she needs it right now and I know she
will outgrow it if we give her some space.
Bridget