One of the reasons I love Unschooling
Heather Woodward
I just thought I would share one of the experiences of our day today - where when I looked back I thought - Wow - this unschooling thing is working! And not only that - but to my children everything is interesting - and they are not intimidated by many things - except my daughter and her hand writing :) - but she is improving in her acceptance of her own imperfection...
We live in a very rural area - and coming home from the dump ( where we talked about ecology - and recycling and what things come from our recycled milk cartons)- there were two surveyors at the end of our driveway. One of them was trying to put a post in the woods - and was having a hard time with a rock. My 4-year old ran to get his shovel to "help". My 7 dd got right into talking to the other man about what he was doing - do you do this everyday? Do you like it? Did you go to college... What does that machine do..etc... I was very impressed with the response of the surveyors. So many adults treat children as a nuisence. I can't help but worry that my children were bothering these men and hindering their work. But they were very open to having them there watching - asking a zillion questions and digging up rocks.They even moved the tripod thing down so they could all look through it.
I also found it wonderful that my children had no intimidation in going up to the men and asking all the questions - and expecting a real answer. Not a watered down for children answer. In the case of my 4 yr old- and the shovel I am continually amazed that he is confident enough to feel that he really helps - and in fact there are many times when he really does.
I have had other experiences with my kids where I have seen an ability to feel comfortable around adults - and want to learn from them - and not view adults as someone who is beyond them. I really think this has a lot to do with unschooling. I just read Instead of Education by John Holt - and I think I better understand the idea of how we all naturally want to learn from those who have something worthwhile to share. They are not "teaching" us math because they are a math teacher - they are sharing something that they enjoy doing - and have a talent in. ( Not to say math teachers don't enjoy what they are doing etc.) This doesn't work if the "teacher" has control over you via grades, tests etc. It only works when the student can simply say no thanks - and move on and have there be no punitive consequences....
I have been unschooling since Decemeber and I have had my moments of struggle - stressing about the Saxon math book that won't be "done" this year as some sort of "proof" that my daughter learned something...worrying that she won't progress... (her spelling and handwriting have gone downhill) - and it's hard not to think - she's going to regress if I don't "do school". I keep reading this list - and gleaning from it encourgement in some of your stories... and philosophies - and have been keeping a journal - as was suggested in the beginning. It really is wonderful what we all learn - through life :)
Heather
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We live in a very rural area - and coming home from the dump ( where we talked about ecology - and recycling and what things come from our recycled milk cartons)- there were two surveyors at the end of our driveway. One of them was trying to put a post in the woods - and was having a hard time with a rock. My 4-year old ran to get his shovel to "help". My 7 dd got right into talking to the other man about what he was doing - do you do this everyday? Do you like it? Did you go to college... What does that machine do..etc... I was very impressed with the response of the surveyors. So many adults treat children as a nuisence. I can't help but worry that my children were bothering these men and hindering their work. But they were very open to having them there watching - asking a zillion questions and digging up rocks.They even moved the tripod thing down so they could all look through it.
I also found it wonderful that my children had no intimidation in going up to the men and asking all the questions - and expecting a real answer. Not a watered down for children answer. In the case of my 4 yr old- and the shovel I am continually amazed that he is confident enough to feel that he really helps - and in fact there are many times when he really does.
I have had other experiences with my kids where I have seen an ability to feel comfortable around adults - and want to learn from them - and not view adults as someone who is beyond them. I really think this has a lot to do with unschooling. I just read Instead of Education by John Holt - and I think I better understand the idea of how we all naturally want to learn from those who have something worthwhile to share. They are not "teaching" us math because they are a math teacher - they are sharing something that they enjoy doing - and have a talent in. ( Not to say math teachers don't enjoy what they are doing etc.) This doesn't work if the "teacher" has control over you via grades, tests etc. It only works when the student can simply say no thanks - and move on and have there be no punitive consequences....
I have been unschooling since Decemeber and I have had my moments of struggle - stressing about the Saxon math book that won't be "done" this year as some sort of "proof" that my daughter learned something...worrying that she won't progress... (her spelling and handwriting have gone downhill) - and it's hard not to think - she's going to regress if I don't "do school". I keep reading this list - and gleaning from it encourgement in some of your stories... and philosophies - and have been keeping a journal - as was suggested in the beginning. It really is wonderful what we all learn - through life :)
Heather
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
susan marie
what a great story. Thanks for sharing.
susan
susan
On Friday, May 3, 2002, at 04:33 PM, Heather Woodward wrote:
> I just thought I would share one of the experiences of our day today -
> where when I looked back I thought - Wow - this unschooling thing is
> working! And not only that - but to my children everything is
> interesting - and they are not intimidated by many things - except my
> daughter and her hand writing :) - but she is improving in her
> acceptance of her own imperfection...
>
> We live in a very rural area - and coming home from the dump ( where we
> talked about ecology - and recycling and what things come from our
> recycled milk cartons)- there were two surveyors at the end of our
> driveway. One of them was trying to put a post in the woods - and was
> having a hard time with a rock. My 4-year old ran to get his shovel to
> "help". My 7 dd got right into talking to the other man about what he
> was doing - do you do this everyday? Do you like it? Did you go to
> college... What does that machine do..etc... I was very impressed with
> the response of the surveyors. So many adults treat children as a
> nuisence. I can't help but worry that my children were bothering these
> men and hindering their work. But they were very open to having them
> there watching - asking a zillion questions and digging up rocks.They
> even moved the tripod thing down so they could all look through it.
>
> I also found it wonderful that my children had no intimidation in going
> up to the men and asking all the questions - and expecting a real
> answer. Not a watered down for children answer. In the case of my 4 yr
> old- and the shovel I am continually amazed that he is confident enough
> to feel that he really helps - and in fact there are many times when he
> really does.
>
> I have had other experiences with my kids where I have seen an ability
> to feel comfortable around adults - and want to learn from them - and
> not view adults as someone who is beyond them. I really think this has
> a lot to do with unschooling. I just read Instead of Education by John
> Holt - and I think I better understand the idea of how we all naturally
> want to learn from those who have something worthwhile to share. They
> are not "teaching" us math because they are a math teacher - they are
> sharing something that they enjoy doing - and have a talent in. ( Not
> to say math teachers don't enjoy what they are doing etc.) This doesn't
> work if the "teacher" has control over you via grades, tests etc. It
> only works when the student can simply say no thanks - and move on and
> have there be no punitive consequences....
>
> I have been unschooling since Decemeber and I have had my moments of
> struggle - stressing about the Saxon math book that won't be "done"
> this year as some sort of "proof" that my daughter learned
> something...worrying that she won't progress... (her spelling and
> handwriting have gone downhill) - and it's hard not to think - she's
> going to regress if I don't "do school". I keep reading this list - and
> gleaning from it encourgement in some of your stories... and
> philosophies - and have been keeping a journal - as was suggested in
> the beginning. It really is wonderful what we all learn - through
> life :)
>
> Heather
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Peace,
Susan
There is nothing so secular that it cannot be sacred, and that is one of
the deepest messages of the Incarnation. -- Madeleine L'Engle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Ackerman
Hi!! I just joined this list because I'm intrigued with the idea of
unschooling. I've been homeschooling for about 15 years. Each year it
seems that I get more and more relaxed. However, I don't see the progress
in reading nor skills in writing in my elementary aged children that I saw
in my teenagers at the same age, since I've "relaxed". My first two
entered college at 15 and I just can't see that happening with the
"relaxed" mindset. My 16yod is not near the level as my 17yob and 18yog in
academia or maturity. I'd be interested in hearing your responses...
Jenn :-)
unschooling. I've been homeschooling for about 15 years. Each year it
seems that I get more and more relaxed. However, I don't see the progress
in reading nor skills in writing in my elementary aged children that I saw
in my teenagers at the same age, since I've "relaxed". My first two
entered college at 15 and I just can't see that happening with the
"relaxed" mindset. My 16yod is not near the level as my 17yob and 18yog in
academia or maturity. I'd be interested in hearing your responses...
Jenn :-)
Betty Holder
----- Original Message -----
From: Jennifer Ackerman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 4:47 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Newbie with a question
<<<<<since I've "relaxed".>>>>
AHHHH- the joys of UNSCHOOLING!!! Are you enjoying homeschool more since you *relaxed*? I'll bet your kids are! I'll bet you spent a lot of stressful years getting your first 2 into college at 15.!!
Who in the world ever decided that all children should learn all the same things at exactly the same age in exactly the same way???? It has taken me a while to realize that academics are NOT the only thing we're teaching here. We're learning from each other daily. This is LIFE!!!
Unschooling allows us to ENJOY life and each other without having to cram a lot of *knowledge* into the kids that they are not going to retain anyway.
Unschooling scared me a bit when we first started it, I think that is because we are conditioned to think that SCHOOL is a standard method set down by the Public School system and that we MUST adhere to that or we're doing it all wrong and our kids will suffer.
I KNOW, without a doubt, my son learns better with the relaxed unschooling method than any other way we've tried. Including public school
Don't worry too much. They all march to the beat of their own drummer, you know!
Betty
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kinkade
<< Has anyone
else had a child this interested in the realities in the world at such a
yound age?? >>
Yes I have a 4 year old boy. He has been the same way since he was about 2.5. He has always loved books and movies way ahead of his age... He loves bugs of all kind, dinosaurs, tornadoes, and lately insects. He is also very knowledgeable in these areas. For instance just today he saw a spider web with a very interesting spider sitting in the middle of it. I commented that I thought this spider had made a wonderful web, and said I wonder what kind of spider it is. He told me that the spider has made her web and is now waiting for food. He told me what she would do with her food, in great detail. He then suggested that we forget about our walk and go inside to get his "Insect" book to find her, so we can know what kind she is. So we turned around and went inside. He then got his book, plopped down on the floor, and found her. So after we read about her we went back outside to see how she was doing. He is also starting to read... (I am doing nothing at all to teach him). He regularly tells me what a word is. And he is always correct. Just the other day we went to Wal Mart, which was recently "upgraded" into a Super Wal Mart. We were looking for the pet department, so we took the handy map, of course he needed one too. After just a few seconds he comes to me with his map, and shows me where the "Pet" department is located. He is reading all on his own.
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
else had a child this interested in the realities in the world at such a
yound age?? >>
Yes I have a 4 year old boy. He has been the same way since he was about 2.5. He has always loved books and movies way ahead of his age... He loves bugs of all kind, dinosaurs, tornadoes, and lately insects. He is also very knowledgeable in these areas. For instance just today he saw a spider web with a very interesting spider sitting in the middle of it. I commented that I thought this spider had made a wonderful web, and said I wonder what kind of spider it is. He told me that the spider has made her web and is now waiting for food. He told me what she would do with her food, in great detail. He then suggested that we forget about our walk and go inside to get his "Insect" book to find her, so we can know what kind she is. So we turned around and went inside. He then got his book, plopped down on the floor, and found her. So after we read about her we went back outside to see how she was doing. He is also starting to read... (I am doing nothing at all to teach him). He regularly tells me what a word is. And he is always correct. Just the other day we went to Wal Mart, which was recently "upgraded" into a Super Wal Mart. We were looking for the pet department, so we took the handy map, of course he needed one too. After just a few seconds he comes to me with his map, and shows me where the "Pet" department is located. He is reading all on his own.
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/4/02 7:35:13 PM, blali@... writes:
<< Has anyone
else had a child this interested in the realities in the world at such a
yound age?? >>
Yes, and I was one myself.
There are some WONDERFUL pop-up books in the world today which are not
child-level information, and if you have a child who can take care of them,
they can last from 3.5 to adult. We have a dozen which have been around for
many years--one on water (adult-level information in the text), one on music
(instruments, and the physics of music), one on Egypt, one "just art" (not
really, but seems so to kids) which is dragons by Greg Hildebrandt; two
castles, one on dinosaurs.
Sandra
<< Has anyone
else had a child this interested in the realities in the world at such a
yound age?? >>
Yes, and I was one myself.
There are some WONDERFUL pop-up books in the world today which are not
child-level information, and if you have a child who can take care of them,
they can last from 3.5 to adult. We have a dozen which have been around for
many years--one on water (adult-level information in the text), one on music
(instruments, and the physics of music), one on Egypt, one "just art" (not
really, but seems so to kids) which is dragons by Greg Hildebrandt; two
castles, one on dinosaurs.
Sandra
Jennifer Ackerman
Actually, getting the first two to college was something they wanted to do.
They were ready and mature enough to handle it so I said go for it. My
next teen is not inclined that way so I'm not pushing her at all. I am
concerned that she is a terrible speller and doesn't seem to be getting
better. If you want to be able to communicate your ideas, you really need
to know how to write and spell...I just don't see that coming to her at all.
How many of you have unschooled through high school? I'd like to know how
you got across the higher maths and sciences...
Jenn :-)
They were ready and mature enough to handle it so I said go for it. My
next teen is not inclined that way so I'm not pushing her at all. I am
concerned that she is a terrible speller and doesn't seem to be getting
better. If you want to be able to communicate your ideas, you really need
to know how to write and spell...I just don't see that coming to her at all.
How many of you have unschooled through high school? I'd like to know how
you got across the higher maths and sciences...
Jenn :-)
Lisa
I did the school at home thing with my oldest and tried to "teach" him how
to read. How frustrating for both of us and to this day he will rarely pick
up a book and exhibits anxiety when in a situation where he reads something
aloud in front of others. I was much more relaxed with my daughter but she
did ask me to sit with her and show her how to read. My youngest I left
completely alone. He learned how to read because he used to "chat" with
friends and family via the Internet. He was about five or so at the time and
what he would do is have the person on the phone at the same time so they
could tell him what they were saying. He got tired of this eventually and
decided it would be easier if he just learned how to do it himself. He's an
awesome reader by the way. They all are but he is never stressed about it.
Lisa
to read. How frustrating for both of us and to this day he will rarely pick
up a book and exhibits anxiety when in a situation where he reads something
aloud in front of others. I was much more relaxed with my daughter but she
did ask me to sit with her and show her how to read. My youngest I left
completely alone. He learned how to read because he used to "chat" with
friends and family via the Internet. He was about five or so at the time and
what he would do is have the person on the phone at the same time so they
could tell him what they were saying. He got tired of this eventually and
decided it would be easier if he just learned how to do it himself. He's an
awesome reader by the way. They all are but he is never stressed about it.
Lisa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beth Ali" <blali@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Newbie with a question
>
>
> I hope my son does this as well, because it'll ease my husband's worries.
He
> really isn't comfortable with letting the child lead...he wants to see
> results. :(
>
> Beth
>
>
>
>
>
> He is also starting to read... (I am doing nothing at all to teach him).
He
> regularly tells me what a word is. And he is always correct. Just the
other
> day we went to Wal Mart, which was recently "upgraded" into a Super Wal
Mart
> We were looking for the pet department, so we took the handy map, of
course
> he needed one too. After just a few seconds he comes to me with his map,
and
> shows me where the "Pet" department is located. He is reading all on his
own
>
>
>
>
> Rebecca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Beth Ali
I'm another newbie..although I originally signed on awhile back and left due
to...well, anyway here's my question...
My 3.5 yr old, Shawn, seems to be only really interested in factual books
and videos. How "normal" is this? When we go to the library he picks books
that are way advanced--which mom and dad have to read--like the Big Book of
Bones, and Eyewitness book on Volcanoes and Earthquakes! The videos are the
same thing..all about volcanoes, spaceships,animals, mummies, etc. etc. His
interests seem oddly diverse for only having been around 3 yrs!!! Has anyone
else had a child this interested in the realities in the world at such a
yound age??
The other day when we were at the dr and waiting he played doctor with me
telling me I had low blood pressure, a fever, and a stuffy nose. When I
asked him what medicine I needed he told me, clear as day, "ibuprofen" :)
How precious is that???
Beth--mom to 2 precious kids
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to...well, anyway here's my question...
My 3.5 yr old, Shawn, seems to be only really interested in factual books
and videos. How "normal" is this? When we go to the library he picks books
that are way advanced--which mom and dad have to read--like the Big Book of
Bones, and Eyewitness book on Volcanoes and Earthquakes! The videos are the
same thing..all about volcanoes, spaceships,animals, mummies, etc. etc. His
interests seem oddly diverse for only having been around 3 yrs!!! Has anyone
else had a child this interested in the realities in the world at such a
yound age??
The other day when we were at the dr and waiting he played doctor with me
telling me I had low blood pressure, a fever, and a stuffy nose. When I
asked him what medicine I needed he told me, clear as day, "ibuprofen" :)
How precious is that???
Beth--mom to 2 precious kids
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Beth Ali
I hope my son does this as well, because it'll ease my husband's worries. He
really isn't comfortable with letting the child lead...he wants to see
results. :(
Beth
He is also starting to read... (I am doing nothing at all to teach him). He
regularly tells me what a word is. And he is always correct. Just the other
day we went to Wal Mart, which was recently "upgraded" into a Super Wal Mart
We were looking for the pet department, so we took the handy map, of course
he needed one too. After just a few seconds he comes to me with his map, and
shows me where the "Pet" department is located. He is reading all on his own
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
really isn't comfortable with letting the child lead...he wants to see
results. :(
Beth
He is also starting to read... (I am doing nothing at all to teach him). He
regularly tells me what a word is. And he is always correct. Just the other
day we went to Wal Mart, which was recently "upgraded" into a Super Wal Mart
We were looking for the pet department, so we took the handy map, of course
he needed one too. After just a few seconds he comes to me with his map, and
shows me where the "Pet" department is located. He is reading all on his own
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Beth Ali
Sandra,
Can you give me the titles and authors?
Thanks,
Beth
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, May 04, 2002 07:17:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Newbie with a question
In a message dated 5/4/02 7:35:13 PM, blali@... writes:
<< Has anyone
else had a child this interested in the realities in the world at such a
yound age?? >>
Yes, and I was one myself.
There are some WONDERFUL pop-up books in the world today which are not
child-level information, and if you have a child who can take care of them,
they can last from 3.5 to adult. We have a dozen which have been around for
many years--one on water (adult-level information in the text), one on music
(instruments, and the physics of music), one on Egypt, one "just art" (not
really, but seems so to kids) which is dragons by Greg Hildebrandt; two
castles, one on dinosaurs.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Can you give me the titles and authors?
Thanks,
Beth
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, May 04, 2002 07:17:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Newbie with a question
In a message dated 5/4/02 7:35:13 PM, blali@... writes:
<< Has anyone
else had a child this interested in the realities in the world at such a
yound age?? >>
Yes, and I was one myself.
There are some WONDERFUL pop-up books in the world today which are not
child-level information, and if you have a child who can take care of them,
they can last from 3.5 to adult. We have a dozen which have been around for
many years--one on water (adult-level information in the text), one on music
(instruments, and the physics of music), one on Egypt, one "just art" (not
really, but seems so to kids) which is dragons by Greg Hildebrandt; two
castles, one on dinosaurs.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/4/2002 9:34:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
blali@... writes:
non-fiction books, especially about nature and animals. He's currently
entranced with sea life, reptiles, dinosaurs and insects.
Amy Kagey
Usborne Books consultant
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Usborne Books Online Sales</A>
WW: -38.8 lbs
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
blali@... writes:
>It doesn't sound very strange to me. My ds is 4.5 and has always preferred
> My 3.5 yr old, Shawn, seems to be only really interested in factual books
> and videos. How "normal" is this?
non-fiction books, especially about nature and animals. He's currently
entranced with sea life, reptiles, dinosaurs and insects.
Amy Kagey
Usborne Books consultant
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Usborne Books Online Sales</A>
WW: -38.8 lbs
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Beth Ali" <blali@b...> wrote:
that. Neither reads fiction. Dh doesn't have much interest in
moviesor television but loves documentaries. Ds has a TV problem so
it's hard to say with him. It might actually be interesting to have
cable for a while and see what his taste in shows does. I bet he
would watch a lot of Discover and things like that. Too bad we can't
afford it right now. And I'm not sure I would keep it if we got it.
I have problems with it sometimes too, exptra temptation is NOT what I
need right now.
But anyhow, since I figured out Wyndham's taste in books, I've asked
around a lot. It seems very common in boys and less common but not
non-existent in girls. As long as he's happy, go with the flow!
Bridget
>books
> My 3.5 yr old, Shawn, seems to be only really interested in factual
> and videos. How "normal" is this?I think this is very common with boys. My dh and ds are both like
that. Neither reads fiction. Dh doesn't have much interest in
moviesor television but loves documentaries. Ds has a TV problem so
it's hard to say with him. It might actually be interesting to have
cable for a while and see what his taste in shows does. I bet he
would watch a lot of Discover and things like that. Too bad we can't
afford it right now. And I'm not sure I would keep it if we got it.
I have problems with it sometimes too, exptra temptation is NOT what I
need right now.
But anyhow, since I figured out Wyndham's taste in books, I've asked
around a lot. It seems very common in boys and less common but not
non-existent in girls. As long as he's happy, go with the flow!
Bridget
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Jennifer Ackerman <edje4him@s...>
wrote:
because they like it. Rachel bought a nineteen thirties edition of
the Chemical Formulary at the library last week. 18 volumes of how to
make stuff. I told her no explosives in the house! She's mre
interested in the beverage formulas right now.
Neither of them is particularly good at math. I know thatthe college
Rachel plans to go to will just put her in college prep math. It
won't affect her acceptance unless they suddenly get a lot more
applicants. The way it is now they take pretty much anyone who can
pay. Recently, they did want to know a little more about Algebra, so
they went to my mom and she helped them with it until they got tiredof
it.
Bridget
wrote:
> How many of you have unschooled through high school? I'd like toknow how
> you got across the higher maths and sciences...My girls are 17 and almost 15. They both know a TON of science . . .
>
because they like it. Rachel bought a nineteen thirties edition of
the Chemical Formulary at the library last week. 18 volumes of how to
make stuff. I told her no explosives in the house! She's mre
interested in the beverage formulas right now.
Neither of them is particularly good at math. I know thatthe college
Rachel plans to go to will just put her in college prep math. It
won't affect her acceptance unless they suddenly get a lot more
applicants. The way it is now they take pretty much anyone who can
pay. Recently, they did want to know a little more about Algebra, so
they went to my mom and she helped them with it until they got tiredof
it.
Bridget
Fetteroll
on 5/4/02 10:56 PM, Jennifer Ackerman at edje4him@... wrote:
communication on her own? Do you think she'd resist learning even if she did
figure that out? Why?
Maybe it hasn't been important to her because she hasn't had a personal need
to communicate something to someone else through writing?
And it's also quite possible she missed the spelling gene. Some people --
people who were "taught" to spell in school -- can't. They find spell
checkers and volunteer editors and secretaries are great resources :-)
Joyce
> I amWhy do you think she wouldn't be able to figure out that spelling helps
> concerned that she is a terrible speller and doesn't seem to be getting
> better. If you want to be able to communicate your ideas, you really need
> to know how to write and spell...
communication on her own? Do you think she'd resist learning even if she did
figure that out? Why?
Maybe it hasn't been important to her because she hasn't had a personal need
to communicate something to someone else through writing?
And it's also quite possible she missed the spelling gene. Some people --
people who were "taught" to spell in school -- can't. They find spell
checkers and volunteer editors and secretaries are great resources :-)
Joyce
Fetteroll
on 5/5/02 1:08 AM, Beth Ali at blali@... wrote:
you can call these things to his father's attention so he won't have to
worry about what he isn't learning.
Also many men find David Guterson's Family Matters: Why Homeschooling Makes
Sense
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0156300001/qid=1020602691/sr=1-4/ref
=sr_1_4/102-0460827-9420928) makes sense to them. David Guterson is a
teacher and answers the questions that tend to concern men.
Joyce
> I hope my son does this as well, because it'll ease my husband's worries. HeHow about making a point to notice (or write down) what he *is* learning so
> really isn't comfortable with letting the child lead...he wants to see
> results. :(
you can call these things to his father's attention so he won't have to
worry about what he isn't learning.
Also many men find David Guterson's Family Matters: Why Homeschooling Makes
Sense
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0156300001/qid=1020602691/sr=1-4/ref
=sr_1_4/102-0460827-9420928) makes sense to them. David Guterson is a
teacher and answers the questions that tend to concern men.
Joyce
Fetteroll
on 5/3/02 7:47 PM, Jennifer Ackerman at edje4him@... wrote:
write well?
One of the (many) reasons school doesn't work so well is the over emphasis
on -- that borders on worship of -- learning through reading. Schools need
the kids lined up neatly, learning the same thing in the same way at the
same time so they can all be uniformly tested. Schools depend on learning
through reading because it's *convenient* for *schools* not because it's the
finest method for kids. And for some kids, depending on their learning
style, learning in other ways is far superior. If they're not reading,
they're not learning is far from the truth.
And schools get us so scared about writing, making us believe it's an
impossible task and kids need to start learning as early as possible. But
that's only true when kids are forced to write when they have nothing to say
and no reason to say it. Writing is just translating thoughts into written
words to transfer them to someone else's head. It's just talking on paper.
It's generally more formal than talking, even at it's most informal, but
people use various levels of formality in speaking depending on who they are
talking to so writing isn't much different.
If kids are taught that writing is hard through boring, personally
meaningless exercises then it becomes hard. If they have no experience with
writing being hard, then it's as natural as anything else. (And some will be
better at it than others, of course.) But the less negative experience they
have, the easier it will be for them to figure out what they need to get
their point across.
taking community college courses at 14 and 17 (I believe).
But what's the rush? What great enhancement to their joy in life will they
have if they enter college at 15 instead of 18 (or 20 or 25)? Is it a
competition to get as many work years in as possible before retirement ;-)
Or might there be an advantage to exploring interests to discover the things
that make them want to jump out of bed in the morning? So when the get to
college (or whatever route(s) they end up taking) they won't be following in
the footsteps of countless schooled kids who go to college just because
that's the next step after high school. And who then get a "good" job
because that's the next step after college.
School and Get a Real Life and Education (1998 edition) by Grace Llewellyn?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962959170/qid=984827128/sr=1-1/ref=s
c_b_2/102-3006399-8134511
(If you can't borrow a copy, and want to order it, it helps Grace and
undoubtedly comes faster if you order directly from her by emailing
GraceJanet@.... (Her website is http://hometown.aol.com/GraceJanet/
which is where she suggest emailing. She doesn't have an order form set up.)
You and and your 16 yo might get a lot out of Teenagers¹ Guide to School
Outside the Box by Rebecca Greene
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1575420872/qid=1018774834/sr=2-1/ref=
sr_2_1/102-2406057-8608930
I haven't read that one and am only going by the great description at
Chinaberry Books, but it sounds like it helps kids see the possibilities
beyond study hard and get into a good college.
Joyce
> However, I don't see the progressIs there an advantage to an elementary aged child to be able to read or
> in reading nor skills in writing in my elementary aged children that I saw
> in my teenagers at the same age, since I've "relaxed".
write well?
One of the (many) reasons school doesn't work so well is the over emphasis
on -- that borders on worship of -- learning through reading. Schools need
the kids lined up neatly, learning the same thing in the same way at the
same time so they can all be uniformly tested. Schools depend on learning
through reading because it's *convenient* for *schools* not because it's the
finest method for kids. And for some kids, depending on their learning
style, learning in other ways is far superior. If they're not reading,
they're not learning is far from the truth.
And schools get us so scared about writing, making us believe it's an
impossible task and kids need to start learning as early as possible. But
that's only true when kids are forced to write when they have nothing to say
and no reason to say it. Writing is just translating thoughts into written
words to transfer them to someone else's head. It's just talking on paper.
It's generally more formal than talking, even at it's most informal, but
people use various levels of formality in speaking depending on who they are
talking to so writing isn't much different.
If kids are taught that writing is hard through boring, personally
meaningless exercises then it becomes hard. If they have no experience with
writing being hard, then it's as natural as anything else. (And some will be
better at it than others, of course.) But the less negative experience they
have, the easier it will be for them to figure out what they need to get
their point across.
> My first twoWell Pam Sorooshian (who will undoubtedly be along at some point) has 2
> entered college at 15 and I just can't see that happening with the
> "relaxed" mindset.
taking community college courses at 14 and 17 (I believe).
But what's the rush? What great enhancement to their joy in life will they
have if they enter college at 15 instead of 18 (or 20 or 25)? Is it a
competition to get as many work years in as possible before retirement ;-)
Or might there be an advantage to exploring interests to discover the things
that make them want to jump out of bed in the morning? So when the get to
college (or whatever route(s) they end up taking) they won't be following in
the footsteps of countless schooled kids who go to college just because
that's the next step after high school. And who then get a "good" job
because that's the next step after college.
> My 16yod is not near the level as my 17yob and 18yog inHave you (and your 16 yo) read The Teenage Liberation Handbook: How to Quit
> academia or maturity.
School and Get a Real Life and Education (1998 edition) by Grace Llewellyn?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962959170/qid=984827128/sr=1-1/ref=s
c_b_2/102-3006399-8134511
(If you can't borrow a copy, and want to order it, it helps Grace and
undoubtedly comes faster if you order directly from her by emailing
GraceJanet@.... (Her website is http://hometown.aol.com/GraceJanet/
which is where she suggest emailing. She doesn't have an order form set up.)
You and and your 16 yo might get a lot out of Teenagers¹ Guide to School
Outside the Box by Rebecca Greene
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1575420872/qid=1018774834/sr=2-1/ref=
sr_2_1/102-2406057-8608930
I haven't read that one and am only going by the great description at
Chinaberry Books, but it sounds like it helps kids see the possibilities
beyond study hard and get into a good college.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/4/2002 9:34:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
blali@... writes:
bones (especially dinosaur bones and fossils), mechanics, fire, and animal
husbandry.
He is, however, equally interested in Mario Brothers, Rugrats, Oswald, and
Bob the Builder.
Kate Davis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
blali@... writes:
> Has anyoneAmazingly enough, my son is also 3 1/2, and he, too, is very interested in
> else had a child this interested in the realities in the world at such a
> yound age??
>
bones (especially dinosaur bones and fossils), mechanics, fire, and animal
husbandry.
He is, however, equally interested in Mario Brothers, Rugrats, Oswald, and
Bob the Builder.
Kate Davis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/4/02 8:40:20 PM, blali@... writes:
<< Can you give me the titles and authors? >>
No.
Not that I couldn't but it probably wouldn't help, because books like that
don't stay in print longterm. Ours are all at least eight years old. But
if you go to any big bookstores and ask (or check the remainder tables) you
might find some.
I went to google.com and entered
pop-up books older
and found a website with some photos and COOL history:
http://gateway.library.uiuc.edu/rbx/popup.html
Check this: -=-the first movable part books were produced as early as the
13th century and were used to illustrate philosophical and scientific theories
-=-
So they weren't originally for kids.
Besides what's to be learned from the texts of them, though, just the
technology of the stand-up or moving parts is paper engineering! There are
pop-up and moving greeting cards (we've collected several here, and all of
the kids have at least two) and I have a Russian book which is SORT of a
pop-up. It's about explorers, and all in Russian, and each two-page opening
creates a little diorama with a frame.
Looking up pop-up books science at google.com brought lots of stuff, but
here's a good one:
Children's Books : Science
... The Pop-up Globe Paper engineering and map projection by Andrew Bennett.
The ... A Suspiciously
Simple History Of Science And Invention Hands up all those who think ...
www.panmacmillan.com/CB/Science/ - 15k - Cached - Similar pages
Gift Books : The Pop-up Globe
... The Pop-up Globe Paper engineering and map projection by Andrew Bennett
Illustrated
by Philip Hood & Nick Price Macmillan Children's Books Age: 6+ years ...
www.panmacmillan.com/CB/Giftbooks/PopupGlobe.htm - 14k - Cached - Similar
pages
[ More results from www.panmacmillan.com ]
I don't know what's new and cool out there, I just know what I happened to
come across discounted or have given to me years ago.
The looking is the fun part!
Sandra
<< Can you give me the titles and authors? >>
No.
Not that I couldn't but it probably wouldn't help, because books like that
don't stay in print longterm. Ours are all at least eight years old. But
if you go to any big bookstores and ask (or check the remainder tables) you
might find some.
I went to google.com and entered
pop-up books older
and found a website with some photos and COOL history:
http://gateway.library.uiuc.edu/rbx/popup.html
Check this: -=-the first movable part books were produced as early as the
13th century and were used to illustrate philosophical and scientific theories
-=-
So they weren't originally for kids.
Besides what's to be learned from the texts of them, though, just the
technology of the stand-up or moving parts is paper engineering! There are
pop-up and moving greeting cards (we've collected several here, and all of
the kids have at least two) and I have a Russian book which is SORT of a
pop-up. It's about explorers, and all in Russian, and each two-page opening
creates a little diorama with a frame.
Looking up pop-up books science at google.com brought lots of stuff, but
here's a good one:
Children's Books : Science
... The Pop-up Globe Paper engineering and map projection by Andrew Bennett.
The ... A Suspiciously
Simple History Of Science And Invention Hands up all those who think ...
www.panmacmillan.com/CB/Science/ - 15k - Cached - Similar pages
Gift Books : The Pop-up Globe
... The Pop-up Globe Paper engineering and map projection by Andrew Bennett
Illustrated
by Philip Hood & Nick Price Macmillan Children's Books Age: 6+ years ...
www.panmacmillan.com/CB/Giftbooks/PopupGlobe.htm - 14k - Cached - Similar
pages
[ More results from www.panmacmillan.com ]
I don't know what's new and cool out there, I just know what I happened to
come across discounted or have given to me years ago.
The looking is the fun part!
Sandra
zenmomma *
>>My 3.5 yr old, Shawn, seems to be only really interested in factual booksIt doesns't really matter if it's "normal". Who decides on normal anyway?
>>and videos. How "normal" is this? >>
;-) It's Shawn, and it's Who He Is right now, and it sounds wonderful. I'd
keep him supplied in whatever he needs and wants to fufill his interests.
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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zenmomma *
>>I hope my son does this as well, because it'll ease my husband's worries.I hope you remind your husband that Shawn is only 3.5 years old. Why if he
>>He really isn't comfortable with letting the child lead...he wants to see
>>results. :( >>
were in school he'd only be learning about....wait he's too young for school
even! ;-)
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Stacy Finch
I wanted to respond to this thread. My 9 yo ds is also like this. When he
was in ps he had an IEP (he is a high functioning autistic-probably a
savant). I pulled him during the current school year. He too, loves fact
based books. His current fixation is the titanic and of course dinosaurs. He
is a walking encyclopedia because of eyewitness type of books. I realize now
how funny it was to have a goal on his IEP to increase his reading
comprehension. He has memorized probably every single fact he has read. He
just doesn't care much for storybooks. He can tell you step by step what
happened on the titanic and when (exact times) events ocurred from the time
it departed. However, if the book he had read like a story, he wouldn't have
picked it up much less had good "reading comprehension!!"
Just thought you guys would enjoy and could relate to our little story!!
Stacy
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
was in ps he had an IEP (he is a high functioning autistic-probably a
savant). I pulled him during the current school year. He too, loves fact
based books. His current fixation is the titanic and of course dinosaurs. He
is a walking encyclopedia because of eyewitness type of books. I realize now
how funny it was to have a goal on his IEP to increase his reading
comprehension. He has memorized probably every single fact he has read. He
just doesn't care much for storybooks. He can tell you step by step what
happened on the titanic and when (exact times) events ocurred from the time
it departed. However, if the book he had read like a story, he wouldn't have
picked it up much less had good "reading comprehension!!"
Just thought you guys would enjoy and could relate to our little story!!
Stacy
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
Karin
I also woud like to respond to this question.
My 9 yos does not really like books that much at all, right now.
He rarely looks at facts books, and he will *sometimes* pick up a very easy
reader, if he's in the mood.
He doesn't like to be read to, fact or fiction.
But he LOVES computer games, and I know he's learning how to read because of
those games. He also likes to watch movies and TV shows - those do hold his
interest.
And although I'm a little disappointed with his lack of enthusiasm for
books, I accept that about him and encourage other methods that he chooses
to learn about things. He is a "doer", and likes doing things.
That's perfectly fine with me, he's just Who He Is, and I love him all the
same. :o)
Karin
My 9 yos does not really like books that much at all, right now.
He rarely looks at facts books, and he will *sometimes* pick up a very easy
reader, if he's in the mood.
He doesn't like to be read to, fact or fiction.
But he LOVES computer games, and I know he's learning how to read because of
those games. He also likes to watch movies and TV shows - those do hold his
interest.
And although I'm a little disappointed with his lack of enthusiasm for
books, I accept that about him and encourage other methods that he chooses
to learn about things. He is a "doer", and likes doing things.
That's perfectly fine with me, he's just Who He Is, and I love him all the
same. :o)
Karin
> I wanted to respond to this thread. My 9 yo ds is also like this. When heHe
> was in ps he had an IEP (he is a high functioning autistic-probably a
> savant). I pulled him during the current school year. He too, loves fact
> based books. His current fixation is the titanic and of course dinosaurs.
> is a walking encyclopedia because of eyewitness type of books. I realizenow
> how funny it was to have a goal on his IEP to increase his readingtime
> comprehension. He has memorized probably every single fact he has read. He
> just doesn't care much for storybooks. He can tell you step by step what
> happened on the titanic and when (exact times) events ocurred from the
> it departed. However, if the book he had read like a story, he wouldn'thave
> picked it up much less had good "reading comprehension!!"
>
> Just thought you guys would enjoy and could relate to our little story!!
>
> Stacy
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/5/02 11:56:15 AM, finchstacy@... writes:
<< He has memorized probably every single fact he has read. He
just doesn't care much for storybooks. >>
I understand that completely!
I like some stories, but generally when I finish reading a short story or a
novel, I look around and wish I had that time back to do something better.
(Not always, but the fiction books I liked so much I would read them again
have been fewer than two dozen in a lifetime.)
I do like fairy tales, but partly for their being artifacts of earlier
cultures. And in part they're related to ballads and Jungian archetypes.
Sandra
<< He has memorized probably every single fact he has read. He
just doesn't care much for storybooks. >>
I understand that completely!
I like some stories, but generally when I finish reading a short story or a
novel, I look around and wish I had that time back to do something better.
(Not always, but the fiction books I liked so much I would read them again
have been fewer than two dozen in a lifetime.)
I do like fairy tales, but partly for their being artifacts of earlier
cultures. And in part they're related to ballads and Jungian archetypes.
Sandra
Beth Ali
Believe me...I am constantly reminding him of that fact!!
Beth
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, May 05, 2002 09:46:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Newbie with a question
were in school he'd only be learning about....wait he's too young for school
even! ;-)
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
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~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Beth
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, May 05, 2002 09:46:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Newbie with a question
>>I hope my son does this as well, because it'll ease my husband's worries.I hope you remind your husband that Shawn is only 3.5 years old. Why if he
>>He really isn't comfortable with letting the child lead...he wants to see
>>results. :( >>
were in school he'd only be learning about....wait he's too young for school
even! ;-)
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heather Woodward
I think his interests are great. My 4 yr. ds has a thing for anything construction or mechanical and most of the books he chooses from the library are non-fiction as well. my husband and I laugh about the fact that a friend had loaned him a book on small engine repair and that was Chase's chosen "bedtime story" for the longest time. Glad Dad was the one asked to read it - :)
Heather
Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Beth Ali
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 12:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Newbie with a question
I'm another newbie..although I originally signed on awhile back and left due
to...well, anyway here's my question...
My 3.5 yr old, Shawn, seems to be only really interested in factual books
and videos. How "normal" is this? When we go to the library he picks books
that are way advanced--which mom and dad have to read--like the Big Book of
Bones, and Eyewitness book on Volcanoes and Earthquakes! The videos are the
same thing..all about volcanoes, spaceships,animals, mummies, etc. etc. His
interests seem oddly diverse for only having been around 3 yrs!!! Has anyone
else had a child this interested in the realities in the world at such a
yound age??
The other day when we were at the dr and waiting he played doctor with me
telling me I had low blood pressure, a fever, and a stuffy nose. When I
asked him what medicine I needed he told me, clear as day, "ibuprofen" :)
How precious is that???
Beth--mom to 2 precious kids
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kinkade
<<I think it would be in her best interest to be able to spell correctly on
her own. That would certainly build her self esteem.>>
Jenn,
I thought I'd share this with you. My daughter, Jennifer, has also struggled with spelling. She wanted to spell well, (her sister spells really well). So we started playing games... Boggle, Hangman, and so on. Another game that was recommended to me is Quiddler, I am going to be getting that as soon as I can find it. She has made such improvement. I try to encourage her. We always try to point out that spelling will come in time, when she needs it most. We also try to encourage her to focus on things she is good at. That helps with her self esteem.
I hope this helps,
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
her own. That would certainly build her self esteem.>>
Jenn,
I thought I'd share this with you. My daughter, Jennifer, has also struggled with spelling. She wanted to spell well, (her sister spells really well). So we started playing games... Boggle, Hangman, and so on. Another game that was recommended to me is Quiddler, I am going to be getting that as soon as I can find it. She has made such improvement. I try to encourage her. We always try to point out that spelling will come in time, when she needs it most. We also try to encourage her to focus on things she is good at. That helps with her self esteem.
I hope this helps,
Rebecca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/6/02 10:09:22 AM, edje4him@... writes:
<< I think it would be in her best interest to be able to spell correctly on
her own. That would certainly build her self esteem. >>
If her self esteem could be good even though she's not a good speller, that
would be even better.
If she can be told calmly and supportively that some people don't learn to
spell well until they're grown (my husband, in his late 30's and 40's has
become a good speller), and that there ARE spell checkers, and that typists
will proofread for you, and that happiness is not dependent on spelling, it
would put less pressure on her, and it would be the absolute truth.
Sandra
<< I think it would be in her best interest to be able to spell correctly on
her own. That would certainly build her self esteem. >>
If her self esteem could be good even though she's not a good speller, that
would be even better.
If she can be told calmly and supportively that some people don't learn to
spell well until they're grown (my husband, in his late 30's and 40's has
become a good speller), and that there ARE spell checkers, and that typists
will proofread for you, and that happiness is not dependent on spelling, it
would put less pressure on her, and it would be the absolute truth.
Sandra
Jennifer Ackerman
At 08:40 AM 5/5/2002 -0400, you wrote:
and is very frustrated because she is so bad at spelling.
her own. That would certainly build her self esteem.
Jenn :-)
> on 5/4/02 10:56 PM, Jennifer Ackerman at edje4him@... wrote:She has figured out that she needs to be able to spell to communicate well,
>
>> I am
>> concerned that she is a terrible speller and doesn't seem to be getting
>> If you want to be able to communicate your ideas, you really need
>> to know how to write and spell...
>
> Why do you think she wouldn't be able to figure out that spelling helps
> communication on her own? Do you think she'd resist learning even if she did
> figure that out? Why?
and is very frustrated because she is so bad at spelling.
>It is very important to her and very frustrating....
> Maybe it hasn't been important to her because she hasn't had a personal need
> to communicate something to someone else through writing?
>I think it would be in her best interest to be able to spell correctly on
> And it's also quite possible she missed the spelling gene. Some people --
>"" to spell in school -- can't. They find spell
> checkers and volunteer editors and secretaries are great resources :-)
>
> Joyce
her own. That would certainly build her self esteem.
Jenn :-)
>
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Jennifer Ackerman
At 09:16 AM 5/5/2002 -0400, you wrote:
they need to be able to research and find out things about them on their
own. I don't think it's beneficial for me to read everything to them.
however need to be able to find things out for themselves. I don't see
negative experiences as being necessarily bad. I personally have grown
through negative experiences and have seen my children do the same.
their way.
in areas that you're interested in. And as I've stated in another post,
they both have already been in the work force since they've been 15.
Jenn :-)
> on 5/3/02 7:47 PM, Jennifer Ackerman at edje4him@... wrote:Yes there is. If they want to pursue things that are of interest to them,
>
>> However, I don't see the progress
>> in reading nor skills in writing in my elementary aged children that I saw
>>"".
>
> Is there an advantage to an elementary aged child to be able to read or
> write well?
they need to be able to research and find out things about them on their
own. I don't think it's beneficial for me to read everything to them.
>I can assure you that we are far from "worshipping" academia. They do
> One of the (many) reasons school doesn't work so well is the over emphasis
> on -- that borders on worship of -- learning through reading. Schools need
> the kids lined up neatly, learning the same thing in the same way at the
> same time so they can all be uniformly tested. Schools depend on learning
> through reading because it's *convenient* for *schools* not because it's the
> finest method for kids. And for some kids, depending on their learning
> style, learning in other ways is far superior. If they're not reading,
> they're not learning is far from the truth.
>
> And schools get us so scared about writing, making us believe it's an
> impossible task and kids need to start learning as early as possible. But
> that's only true when kids are forced to write when they have nothing to say
> and no reason to say it. Writing is just translating thoughts into written
> words to transfer them to someone else's head. It's just talking on paper.
> It's generally more formal than talking, even at it's most informal, but
> people use various levels of formality in speaking depending on who they are
> talking to so writing isn't much different.
>
> If kids are taught that writing is hard through boring, personally
> meaningless exercises then it becomes hard. If they have no experience with
> writing being hard, then it's as natural as anything else. (And some will be
> better at it than others, of course.) But the less negative experience they
> have, the easier it will be for them to figure out what they need to get
> their point across.
>
however need to be able to find things out for themselves. I don't see
negative experiences as being necessarily bad. I personally have grown
through negative experiences and have seen my children do the same.
>> My first twoAs I said in an earlier post, they chose to do this and I didn't stand in
>> entered college at 15 and I just can't see that happening with the
>>"" mindset.
>
> Well Pam Sorooshian (who will undoubtedly be along at some point) has 2
> taking community college courses at 14 and 17 (I believe).
>
> But what's the rush? What great enhancement to their joy in life will they
> have if they enter college at 15 instead of 18 (or 20 or 25)? Is it a
> competition to get as many work years in as possible before retirement ;-)
their way.
>Actually there's nothing wrong with continuing your education....especially
> Or might there be an advantage to exploring interests to discover the things
> that make them want to jump out of bed in the morning? So when the get to
> college (or whatever route(s) they end up taking) they won't be following in
> the footsteps of countless schooled kids who go to college just because
>"" job
> because that's the next step after college.
in areas that you're interested in. And as I've stated in another post,
they both have already been in the work force since they've been 15.
>I might look into those.
>> My 16yod is not near the level as my 17yob and 18yog in
>> academia or maturity.
>
> Have you (and your 16 yo) read The Teenage Liberation Handbook: How to Quit
> School and Get a Real Life and Education (1998 edition) by Grace Llewellyn?
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962959170/qid=984827128/sr=1-1/ref=s
> c_b_2/102-3006399-8134511
>
> (If you can't borrow a copy, and want to order it, it helps Grace and
> undoubtedly comes faster if you order directly from her by emailing
> GraceJanet@.... (Her website is http://hometown.aol.com/GraceJanet/
> which is where she suggest emailing. She doesn't have an order form set up.)
>
> You and and your 16 yo might get a lot out of Teenagers¹ Guide to School
> Outside the Box by Rebecca Greene
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1575420872/qid=1018774834/sr=2-1/ref=
> sr_2_1/102-2406057-8608930
>
> I haven't read that one and am only going by the great description at
> Chinaberry Books, but it sounds like it helps kids see the possibilities
> beyond study hard and get into a good college.
>
> Joyce
>
Jenn :-)
>
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