Suzanna and Darrell

>From: Hazy_lilly <hazy_lilly@...>
>Subject: Re: diapers/ was curriculum


>> with "training pants". I made that decision after
>> only one time seeing a
>> woman at church change her child who was wearing
>> "training pants" and he had
>> pooped them. In the process of removing them, the
>> poop got smeared all over his legs - it was an awful
>>mess to clean up.



>I was reading your post and wondered if the women in
>the church removed the training pants as if it was
>underwear? LOL My girlfriend did it that way and it
>smeared everywhere. I had to explain to her that your
>supose to rip them on the side like you would diapers!


>I loved them because I didn't have to worry about the
>tape not sticking. Iused them instead of diapers.

>Hazel

Hazel,

This was over 20 years ago before the days of disposable training pants.(I
am probably ancient compared to most on this list :-) You couldn't just rip
them down the side; they were cloth. Very sturdy cloth that would have been
very difficult to tear. I must admit that my younger two did venture into
the disposable training pants, because to me the only difference between
them and diapers was that the kids could pull them on and off by themselves.
But we never ventured into cloth underpants, training or otherwise, until
they were proficient with potty.

Suzanna

Bronwen

> How about question 7!!?!!
>
> Poor little things.
>

Question number seven was about diapers and how they were only changed every
four days -

And NOW for the rest of the story...

*Babies could tell their care givers when they had to go to the
bathroom...and still can!!

(unfortunately, we make them sit in their own waste..not nice of us!)
http://flowgo.com/flowgo2_view.cfm?page_id=41329



Diaper FREE! http://www.natural-wisdom.com/

for a world without diapers!
Brownen

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/2003 1:49:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
felesina@... writes:

> Diaper FREE! http://www.natural-wisdom.com/
>
> for a world without diapers!
> Brownen
>

Oh gosh I wish mine was diaper-less! Going to buy that book sounds
interesting.

Laura
Maine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: <HMSL2@...>

<< Oh gosh I wish mine was diaper-less! Going to buy that book sounds
interesting.>>


Isn't being carefree and going in your diaper all a part of being a kid? And
when the child is ready they'll become diaper free on their own, whether
it's a year or 4? I know someone who did the whole no diaper thing (that I
know of) with 2 of her 4 children and it just seemed like way early potty
training.

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/03 3:50:38 PM, mummy124@... writes:

<< Isn't being carefree and going in your diaper all a part of being a kid? >>

In this culture it is.
And going to school is part of being a kid too!
::ducking::

In some cultures diapers aren't "normal."

Sandra

Shyrley

Mary wrote:

> From: <HMSL2@...>
>
> << Oh gosh I wish mine was diaper-less! Going to buy that book sounds
> interesting.>>
>
> Isn't being carefree and going in your diaper all a part of being a kid? And
> when the child is ready they'll become diaper free on their own, whether
> it's a year or 4? I know someone who did the whole no diaper thing (that I
> know of) with 2 of her 4 children and it just seemed like way early potty
> training.
>
> Mary B
>

Talking of nappies. Where can I buy washable nappies - I'm talking the terry-towelling squares, not those shaped things.
I went into 'tat R Us' and they had tones of disposable (gggrrrrrrr) and only one lot of washables but they were as thin as tissue paper. They didn't have any plastic over-pants or nappy pins either :-(

Shyrley


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I said wish and that's only because my 11 month old is often
crawling away during diaper changes and standing once I have caught up to him
to put it on.
I would never push any of my children in potty training. My daughter is 3
1/2 we have never pushed her. She uses the potty until she sleeps then she
wears Atta Girls her choice either way. She has used the potty for the
longest time but nights she does not wake with the urge. That's fine with me.

I would like to read the book though for knowledge. I have never followed
someone else's teachings to the letter. I follow what I feel works for me and
my family. Bits and pieces of what works for me. From looking at the site I
didn't get the impression that it was "Potty Training" in that sense. The
book as explained on the site sounded loving and nurturing if anything I
could always learn more ways to enjoy my children's younger years.

Laura
Maine

> <<Oh gosh I wish mine was diaper-less! Going to buy that book sounds
> interesting.>>
>
>
> Isn't being carefree and going in your diaper all a part of being a kid?
> And
> when the child is ready they'll become diaper free on their own, whether
> it's a year or 4? I know someone who did the whole no diaper thing (that I
> know of) with 2 of her 4 children and it just seemed like way early potty
> training.
>
> Mary B



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bronwen

> Isn't being carefree and going in your diaper all a part of being a kid?
And
> when the child is ready they'll become diaper free on their own, whether
> it's a year or 4? I know someone who did the whole no diaper thing (that I
> know of) with 2 of her 4 children and it just seemed like way early potty
> training.


People have a natural strong adversion to soiling themselves (just as most
mammals do- except shoot- porcupines- man do they STINK).

When babies are born they give all sorts of signs to try to communicate to
their mom that they have to go- but because the mom isn't even thinking
about it, she ignores it. In order for a person to sit in wet and dirty
clothes, they have to "turn off" down there- Later, they are supposed to
turn it back on.

So what I am saying is that they are not "care free" about soiling
themselves- they DO care and they DONT like it. - they only "dont care"
when they have had to do it so much, I mean really, they have no choice.

In effect, where we are thinking, "lets be kind and let them potty train
when they are ready".. what we are really saying is, "you might not like
sitting in this, but until you can take off your clothes, say "I have to go
potty", do it all your self- I won't help you".

SO lets help them!! Lets help our babies get to the potty when they want to
go :-)

ANd here are some links to places to buy diapers (to answer the other
poster). Some people who do EC (elimination communication) in our culture
also use cloth diapers some or all of the time- just unsnapping them to pee,
then snapping them back up

http://wonderbabydesigns.com/
http://www.belliesandbuns.com/
http://www.weebees.com/Home.asp
http://www.ecomall.com/biz/baby.htm

and this is a place for getting the fabric to make them:
http://home.att.net/~tjatsdehart/SweetHarts.html#redirect

EC (elimination communication) is NOT potty training, with praise and
stickers and coersion and control. It is about communication- like
breastfeeding. Like when you know your baby wants to nurse, 'cause he
"tells" you- this is just communication about what goes out of the baby too.

The closeness and complete bond this generates is immeasurable. In fact, I
would do this again even if I never "caught" a pee- just holding your baby
when he doesnt have a diaper on is beautiful!. And I have to say- sleeping
with your naked baby IS heaven- I am serious- *heaven* where you are aware
that love has enveloped and is every ounce of matter.

In China, the kid's pants don't even have crotches,
Bronwen

Mary

From: "Shyrley" <shyrley.williams@...>

<<Talking of nappies. Where can I buy washable nappies - I'm talking the
terry-towelling squares, not those shaped things.
I went into 'tat R Us' and they had tones of disposable (gggrrrrrrr) and
only one lot of washables but they were as thin as tissue paper. They didn't
have any plastic over-pants or nappy pins either >>


I would imagine the best place for you to find exactly what you are looking
for, which I honestly haven't seen in any store, would be the internet.

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/03 10:41:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
felesina@... writes:

> People have a natural strong adversion to soiling themselves

Im not really sure about this. I know some children do hate being in a dirty
or wet diaper, but I also know some babies do NOT like having thier diaper
changed. When I worked in a preschool with the 2 year olds, it was about
even for babies who didnt like dirty diapers, and would sure tell you in a
hurry they needed a diaper change ( and yes, these were usually the "early"
pottiers) , and babies who would rather wear a stinky all day then lay down
and get cleaned up. Also, I have known children who pee peed in the potty
very easily, but had an aversion to pooping in the potty. I believe the
"scared to poop in the potty" kids had that fear that part of them was being
flushed away.

I have four children of my own, 8 neices and nephews, I have babysat at
least half a dozen children in my home, and I worked in a preschool, So, my
exposure and experience with babies is not limited. Their actions and
reactions concerning peeing and pooping, diaper changing, and using the potty
are as varied as each of their own unique personalities.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

> When babies are born they give all sorts of signs to try to communicate to
> their mom that they have to go- but because the mom isn't even thinking
> about it, she ignores it. In order for a person to sit in wet and dirty
> clothes, they have to "turn off" down there- Later, they are supposed to
> turn it back on.

My daughter is doing this with her youngest. He gets really restless when
he has to go. She's caught a lot of them, but she's the one being
potty-trained. Sascha is just more comfortable than he might be otherwise.

> The closeness and complete bond this generates is immeasurable. In fact,
I
> would do this again even if I never "caught" a pee- just holding your baby
> when he doesnt have a diaper on is beautiful!. And I have to say-
sleeping
> with your naked baby IS heaven- I am serious- *heaven* where you are aware
> that love has enveloped and is every ounce of matter.

Nighttime is where my daughter has gotten hung up. If she doesn't catch it,
the bed (and the rest of the family) gets wet. How do you handle that?
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Mary

From: "Bronwen" <felesina@...>

<< When babies are born they give all sorts of signs to try to communicate
to
their mom that they have to go- but because the mom isn't even thinking
about it, she ignores it. In order for a person to sit in wet and dirty
clothes, they have to "turn off" down there- Later, they are supposed to
turn it back on.>>



Do they really? All babies? You know that for sure?

I was well aware of this (potty training babies) when my last was born and
was very in tune to her and I couldn't tell when she was telling me she had
to go. Of course if it was practical for me to let her be naked, not worry
about my carpets and clothes when going out in public as much as I do, I
would imagine I would just pick up on her schedule. It would probably work
great if I was in a hut somewhere with no Target or Publix to go to or
errands to run and clothes to wear. Would also be nice if I had a village to
watch my children instead of doing it all myself. My mom had me potty
trained at 1 year old. Not that I could actually say hey I need to go potty,
but SHE knew when as I had a schedule. SHE knew when to hold me over the
potty.

Are you saying everyone who has a child in diapers is doing the child a
diservice by making them do something they really don't want to do? That
they really want to go potty and we aren't attentive enough to give them
what they need?

My youngest now is 2 and half and has no clue that she needs to pee or poop.
Really none whatsoever. She'll be naked and just pee all over and look at
what she did and then tell me she peed. Sometimes she says she pooped when
she didn't. But I guess that's my fault because I didn't do it soon enough?
At one month if I would have been smarter she would be going on the potty
now. I really don't have time to clean up myself or the floors all day,
especially right after a baby is born. I have other children to take care of
let alone a house filled with all sorts of things. I don't see having my
kids in diapers is a bad thing. They are very comfortable and with the
disposable diapers being the way they are now, the children are really never
uncomfortable let alone rashy. I see, for me, taking the time to train an
infant, and I do see it as training, is more bad then good for all my
children involved.

Trying to figure out when your baby needs to go is wonderful for someone who
wants to do that. Great for the family if it all works. I just couldn't see
it working here and the one mom I knew who did it, was rather disturbing in
how long she would hold the poor baby over a potty with nothing happening
for 5 minutes. Then to have her try again 5 minutes later. She swore the
baby would give her signals. Maybe I just always caught her on a bad day.

And if the tone of this letter sounds anything more then me just talking,
I'm sorry. I'm not mad or upset or looking for trouble. Just talking and not
taking the time to try and make it all nice. I know this works for many
people and different cultures and so does lots of things we don't do here.
Just not wanting to make others feel inferior for not "knowing" their babies
well enough.

Mary B

jmcseals SEALS

***snip***I also know some babies do NOT like having thier diaper
changed. **snip** and babies who would rather wear a stinky all day then
lay down
and get cleaned up.

Surely you don't think they WANT to sit in their pee and poop?? I'm
venturing a guess that they would rather go on about their business *rather*
than have their diaper changed. NOT because they enjoy the feeling of
sitting in their poo! I also know other children who have tender skin and
would risk sitting in a diaper rather than face the fear of pain associated
with wiping a tender bum.

***Also, I have known children who pee peed in the potty
very easily, but had an aversion to pooping in the potty. I believe the
"scared to poop in the potty" kids had that fear that part of them was being
flushed away. ****

I've heard this happen. The key part of your sentence is "scared to poop in
the potty". You didn't say they wanted to sit in their poop. There is a
HUGE difference.

***Their actions and reactions concerning peeing and pooping, diaper
changing, and using the potty are as varied as each of their own unique
personalities.***

Yes, their reactions do vary widely, but none of this implies that ANY child
enjoys peeing and pooping on themselves. They may not want to stop what
they are doing to be changed. They may not like sitting still to be
changed. They may be scared of the potty. They may fear the sight of their
poop being flushed away. But I do NOT believe any of this suggests that
they want, enjoy or wish to sit in their excrement.

Just my thoughts,
Jennifer







_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/03 11:14:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jmcseals@... writes:

> But I do NOT believe any of this suggests that
> they want, enjoy or wish to sit in their excrement.
>

I didn't say they did. I just think it doesn't bother some kids as much as
others. Just like bugs, vomit, blood, or any other "yucky" thing, some
kids don't flinch, some kids pass out. I don't think any kid thinks.. OH
BOY.. A POOPY DIAPER!.. But, barring any sensitive skin reaction, I think
some kids really don't give it a second thought.

I'm not "arguing" the point. I'm just expressing my opinion. I could be
wrong, but unless babies start talking and telling us exactly what they think
and feel, we will have to rely on guessing at thier cues, or lack thereof. I
am saying, from my own experience, I have known children who really didn't
seem to care if they have a dirty diaper on. And, yes, I have known children
who cried miserably as soon as thier pee started hitting thier diaper.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/03 11:20:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:

> My youngest now is 2 and half and has no clue that she needs to pee or poop.
> Really none whatsoever. She'll be naked and just pee all over and look at
> what she did and then tell me she peed

This goes along exactly with something I read when one of my children were
"potty aware age" A baby goes through 3 stages before their body is ready to
"potty" First, they are aware that they peed or pooped. Just like you
explained about your daughter.. A child may soil their diaper then come and
tell you. The second stage is that they are aware when they are actually
doing it. Like.. OH, I AM PEEING/POOPING. I have seen kids at this age.
They begin to pee or poop and they get some strange look over thier face..
Like, "oh, oh, something is happening here!" The third stage is when they
know they are going to do it. "Oh, I feel like I need to pee/poop!". At
first, they may have the urge to eliminate, feel the urge, but not know quiet
what it is, but eventually, they figure it out.. lol

Every child is different, there is no set age when children go through
these stages, and no set time that each phase lasts til the next phase comes
in. But, generally it's been a good sort of guideline for me to know when my
children ( or others) were ready to use the potty. Basically, when they are
ready, they start telling you..

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
> Im not really sure about this. I know some children do hate being in a
dirty
> or wet diaper, but I also know some babies do NOT like having thier diaper
> changed. When I worked in a preschool with the 2 year olds, it was about
> even for babies who didnt like dirty diapers, and would sure tell you in a
> hurry they needed a diaper change ( and yes, these were usually the
"early"
> pottiers) , and babies who would rather wear a stinky all day then lay
down
> and get cleaned up.

You're talking about kids who have already spent a year or two in wet or
dirty diapers. My youngest used to have to be held down to change his
diaper when he was 2. This system is talking about starting with new
babies, who *don't* like to be wet or dirty.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Robin Bentley

> Oh gosh I wish mine was diaper-less! Going to buy that book sounds
> interesting.
>
> Laura
> Maine

The book *is* interesting . I'm not sure it's for everyone, though if I had
another baby, I would definitely consider doing things this way.

I met Ingrid, the author of the book, at a La Leche League conference. I
was sitting at the homeschooling information table and she was next to me
with her weeks old baby in a sling. Every so often she'd feel the babe
wiggle and off she'd go to the restroom. She and her family live a gentle,
natural, back-to-the-land kind of life, but I don't think you'd have to live
exactly as she does to use these methods successfully. Ingrid herself was
diaper-free by about one year of age - her mother had just done what she
thought seemed right. Ingrid decided to explore it and, voila, diaper-free
babies and a book!

Even if you don't ever plan to do the diaper-free thing, her book is
fascinating reading.

Robin B.

Olga

--- In [email protected], "Bronwen" <felesina@c...>
wrote:
>
> > Like when you know your baby wants to nurse, 'cause he
> "tells" you- this is just communication about what goes out of the
baby too.
>
> The closeness and complete bond this generates is immeasurable. In
fact, I
> would do this again even if I never "caught" a pee- just holding
your baby
> when he doesnt have a diaper on is beautiful!. And I have to say-
sleeping
> with your naked baby IS heaven- I am serious- *heaven* where you
are aware
> that love has enveloped and is every ounce of matter.
>
>
> Bronwen

I am assuming the not wearing diapers thing is related to cloth
diapers. Sorry, we are pampers over here so I am completely
uneducated on the virtues of cloth and no diapers. I think someone
mentioned a book?? Would love to hear more.

Thanks
Olga

Bronwen

> My daughter is doing this with her youngest. He gets really restless when
> he has to go. She's caught a lot of them, but she's the one being
> potty-trained.

I guess you could also say that moms are "trained" by their babies to nurse
them.

It really is a huge shift in thinking - it goes against everything we have
been told, and seen, and learned. Kind of like shifting to really getting
unschooling.

>Sascha is just more comfortable than he might be otherwise.

First off, I think it is incredible that you are supportive of her- so many
people - are incredulous and think it is rediculous at best. I thought it
was silly- and I am an earth mother supreme- besides I liked diapers! they
were fluffy and cute out of the dryer.

And I know to other people, even supportive ones- it seems like alot of
trouble just so he can be "more comfortable than he might be otherwise".
But it is not trouble- any more than breastfeeding when a baby wants to is
more trouble than breastfeeding on a schedule. And what mother in baby love
would not want them to be more comfortable- (even though it is much more
than being comfortable).

I think what helps for us just learning is to have the goal being that the
baby maintains awareness of his elimination- and maybe that means useing
diapers all the time, but doing your best to change *right* after each pee,
or maybe that means a naked baby 24/7.

> Nighttime is where my daughter has gotten hung up. If she doesn't catch
it,
> the bed (and the rest of the family) gets wet. How do you handle that?

There are many options at night- some people always use diapers at night,
some never. Is she on the EC list? http://www.babieswithoutdiapers.com/ i
think she can get to it from here.

There are alot of ideas about it there. I can say that to me, it was worth
the risk of missing a pee- I can also give practical suggestions- but that
list is incredible- the night time thing comes up quite a bit.

Part of what is the problem in trying to teach ourselves this is that we
have no modeling and have never seen it done. I had great imprinting for
breastfeeding- my mother nursed my sister 12 years my junior, for four
years. I NEVER questioned if bf would work- or even how it would work. I
have been helping moms bf for 14 years now and so many moms are so worried-
they just dont have the imprinting and are trying to do it from scratch, it
is really hard to do- to go against your imprinting (or lack of! some
people have never held a baby, much less seen one nurse). EC is a really
far jump for other people- because it really is like swimming up stream. --
like trying to understand why on earth your grandaughter is being
homeschooled!- what my poor parents and in laws have gone through with me!

I talk about this when ever I can (I have mentioned it on this list before!)
because if I knew about it with my other kids I would have done it-
especially with my middle child- he HATED diapers, no matter how "fun" I
made it- in fact, once he figured out how to take them off- he did, so he
was diaper free with out the communication :-).

I talk about it because what we are told about "potty readiness" is NOT
true. NOT true.

I talk about it as much as I can because it was an paradigm shift for me-
earth changing- and I thought I had heard and done every "natural" parenting
thing possible- it gave me something that was missing with my other kids.

I don't talk about it to instill guilt and arouse defenses with people who
feel bad about decisions they made. People can only do what they can do. I
can make a really big list of things I wish I was doing differently from
buying grass fed beef to doing laundy more regularly. If someone would like
to expound the virtues of grass fed beef- I might be inspired and it might
get moved higher on my list of priorities, and maybe make some positive
steps - but I dont think I can buy the gf beef all the time. you know?

Anyway,

Diapers are about you doing something to the kid when you think you should
(school)

EC is about you supporting and helping when needed (unschooling)

Love,
Bronwen

Bronwen

> I am assuming the not wearing diapers thing is related to cloth
> diapers. Sorry, we are pampers over here so I am completely
> uneducated on the virtues of cloth and no diapers. I think someone
> mentioned a book?? Would love to hear more.

Hi Olga!
Here is the link-

http://www.natural-wisdom.com/

it is a great book- so well written. worth reading even if you don't plan
on doing EC.

bronwen

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/28/03 1:27:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< I met Ingrid, the author of the book, at a La Leche League conference. >>

She used to be at this list I believe.
This or the other one....I saved her site to my faves but never really
researched it well enough to put it in practice.
Does anyone know where Ingrid went?

Ren
"They dined on mince, and slices of quince, Which they ate with a runcible
spoon;
And hand in hand, on the edge of the sand, they danced by the light of the
moon."
--The Owl and the Pussycat
Edward Lear

Tia Leschke

>
> I met Ingrid, the author of the book, at a La Leche League conference. I
> was sitting at the homeschooling information table and she was next to me
> with her weeks old baby in a sling. Every so often she'd feel the babe
> wiggle and off she'd go to the restroom. She and her family live a
gentle,
> natural, back-to-the-land kind of life, but I don't think you'd have to
live
> exactly as she does to use these methods successfully. Ingrid herself was
> diaper-free by about one year of age - her mother had just done what she
> thought seemed right. Ingrid decided to explore it and, voila,
diaper-free
> babies and a book!

She was on this list for a while. Don't know if she still is. Ingrid?
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Tia Leschke

> > My daughter is doing this with her youngest. He gets really restless
when
> > he has to go. She's caught a lot of them, but she's the one being
> > potty-trained.
>
> I guess you could also say that moms are "trained" by their babies to
nurse
> them.
>
I guess I meant that she's the person doing the learning rather than baby in
the beginning.

> >Sascha is just more comfortable than he might be otherwise.
>
> First off, I think it is incredible that you are supportive of her- so
many
> people - are incredulous and think it is rediculous at best. I thought
it
> was silly- and I am an earth mother supreme- besides I liked diapers!
they
> were fluffy and cute out of the dryer.

I try to be very supportive of her. She's teaching me even more about
parenting than she did when she was little. <g>
>
> And I know to other people, even supportive ones- it seems like alot of
> trouble just so he can be "more comfortable than he might be otherwise".
> But it is not trouble- any more than breastfeeding when a baby wants to is
> more trouble than breastfeeding on a schedule. And what mother in baby
love
> would not want them to be more comfortable- (even though it is much more
> than being comfortable).

I don't think she finds it to be trouble, but it *is* another thing to have
to pay attention to when there are other children including a toddler. I
think she's doing great with it, even if she isn't catching them all
>
> I think what helps for us just learning is to have the goal being that the
> baby maintains awareness of his elimination- and maybe that means useing
> diapers all the time, but doing your best to change *right* after each
pee,
> or maybe that means a naked baby 24/7.

That's kind of where she is now. When he was spending most of his time in
the sling, he went diaperless at home anyway. She caught a lot more then,
but his signals were still pretty subtle by the time he was crawling and
down on the floor more. He still goes diaperless a lot, just not as much.
She does change him right away, or at least take off the wet one.
>
>
> There are many options at night- some people always use diapers at night,
> some never. Is she on the EC list? http://www.babieswithoutdiapers.com/
i
> think she can get to it from here.

I'm pretty sure she was on that list (or another if there are more than
one). I don't know if she is now. So many lists, so little time. <g>
>
> Part of what is the problem in trying to teach ourselves this is that we
> have no modeling and have never seen it done. I had great imprinting for
> breastfeeding- my mother nursed my sister 12 years my junior, for four
> years. I NEVER questioned if bf would work- or even how it would work.

Yes. Heather nursed for over 4 years herself (was actually "weaned" by her
little brother - another story), so there was never any question about bf.
She's also one determined woman. (gets it from her ma <g>)

>I
> have been helping moms bf for 14 years now and so many moms are so
worried-
> they just dont have the imprinting and are trying to do it from scratch,
it
> is really hard to do- to go against your imprinting (or lack of! some
> people have never held a baby, much less seen one nurse). EC is a really
> far jump for other people- because it really is like swimming up
stream. --
> like trying to understand why on earth your grandaughter is being
> homeschooled!- what my poor parents and in laws have gone through with
me!

Now *that* is no problem at all. I would have unschooled Heather if her
father had let her. (She lived with him.) Her youngest brother (can't say
littlest - he's 6'3") has never been to school.
>
> I talk about this when ever I can (I have mentioned it on this list
before!)
> because if I knew about it with my other kids I would have done it-
> especially with my middle child- he HATED diapers, no matter how "fun" I
> made it- in fact, once he figured out how to take them off- he did, so he
> was diaper free with out the communication :-).

This is where the middle grandchild is now, though he's starting to learn to
communicate and even use the toilet some now at 2 1/2.
>
> I don't talk about it to instill guilt and arouse defenses with people who
> feel bad about decisions they made. People can only do what they can do.

This is important. I noticed there was some defensiveness about it. I wish
I'd done it, but I wish I'd done a lot of things, especially with my older
kids. All we can do is what we can do now.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Robin Bentley

Ren wrote:

> She used to be at this list I believe.

I think you're right. I recall reading her intro and posts. I think she
unsubbed after a short time.

Robin B.

> This or the other one....I saved her site to my faves but never really
> researched it well enough to put it in practice.
> Does anyone know where Ingrid went?



Robin B.