Learning consideration
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/2/02 12:56:00 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< And - by the way - some people feel attacked and picked apart when people
respond to their posts point-by-point, quoting bits and responding, like I
have done here >>
I used to.
It felt like everything I said was being dissected, even when I didn't mean
it a certain way.
But you know what?
It made me really think about what I was posting, what I was saying and
thinking and whether or not it was really true or what I was trying to
convey.
Many things used to pop out of my mouth (or hands in this case) without much
thought.
No longer.
I'm glad so many people took the time to put the mirror in front of my face
and force me to really think about what I was saying/writing.
It's helped my entire life.
But I do understand why it's hard to take at first....
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< And - by the way - some people feel attacked and picked apart when people
respond to their posts point-by-point, quoting bits and responding, like I
have done here >>
I used to.
It felt like everything I said was being dissected, even when I didn't mean
it a certain way.
But you know what?
It made me really think about what I was posting, what I was saying and
thinking and whether or not it was really true or what I was trying to
convey.
Many things used to pop out of my mouth (or hands in this case) without much
thought.
No longer.
I'm glad so many people took the time to put the mirror in front of my face
and force me to really think about what I was saying/writing.
It's helped my entire life.
But I do understand why it's hard to take at first....
Ren
zenmomma *
>>Some people would prefer sweet chitchat, vaguely supportive, over any realThose aren't the only choices. ;-)
>>and potentially dangerous critique or information. Some other people
>>think that would be a total waste of time and wouldn't bother to belong to
>>a list that was basically a teaparty.>>
Life is good.
~Mary, who tries to give real information while still remaining supportive.
Care for some tea?
_________________________________________________________________
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Elizabeth Hill
**If we say "breastfeeding is good," someone breaks down in tears and
says we
shouldn't make her feel guilty because she bottle fed. Often the hurt
is in
the reader, waiting to be touched, after which she says "YOU WERE
INSENSITIVE! You talked about cats when my cat died, you talked about
hot
dogs when I'm a vegetarian, you said unschooling is best when you start
early, and my child is thirTEEEEEEN!!!!"**
Wow -- you really hit the nail of human nature on the head with this
one. It's very true.
(In my sentence above, hitting means achieving clarity -- not beating
someone w. an actual hammer. I don't want what I've said to be
misunderstood. Always a danger w. figurative language.)
Betsy
says we
shouldn't make her feel guilty because she bottle fed. Often the hurt
is in
the reader, waiting to be touched, after which she says "YOU WERE
INSENSITIVE! You talked about cats when my cat died, you talked about
hot
dogs when I'm a vegetarian, you said unschooling is best when you start
early, and my child is thirTEEEEEEN!!!!"**
Wow -- you really hit the nail of human nature on the head with this
one. It's very true.
(In my sentence above, hitting means achieving clarity -- not beating
someone w. an actual hammer. I don't want what I've said to be
misunderstood. Always a danger w. figurative language.)
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/2/2002 12:20:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
but I think what Sandra is saying is that some people really don't want ANY
posts at the "potentially dangerous" end of the spectrum and would be happy
if all posts were at the chit-chat sweet and always-supportive-of-everything
end instead. I'm not interested in sweet chitchat. I have other places for
that, for one thing, and this list has such a powerhouse of people with
really outside-the-box ideas that I want to hear them straight and undiluted.
Sometimes what someone says to me makes me catch my breath and it can even
hurt and pretty often makes me want to jump to my own defense. I've learned
to resist that first impulse (usually) and spend time thinking about WHY I
care. WHY did it get an internal reaction from me? Why would I care what
someone on some email list said? Why does it touch me? It HAS to be because
it is touching something that is in ME --I have to recognize that, because
otherwise why would I care at all? As much admiration as I have for all of
you - most of you are not people I know enough about to take what you say too
seriously JUST because you said it. It is the content of your posts that
matters - not that you said it. There is an impersonal nature to email list
discussions when there are hundreds of people on the list -- it is great
since it means the content is what really counts, not the person who happens
to say something. So if it gets to me, it is the content and I know that I
need to examine that content and how it applies to me. I'd way rather have my
thinking challenged even if it is hard to hear - even if my first reaction is
"How DARE she talk to me like that?" I'd so much rather have that then people
just offering me goodhearted, well-meaning supportive comments. I'm not in
that place where I, personally, have a need for that kind of thing - at least
not from a relatively impersonal email list. I really need to be stretched
and challenged and even attacked a little - to grow. Others really NEED
people to send them hugs and need to be validated that they're "okay." I
don't know how to reconcile these different needs on one list except to
expect everyone to be mature enough to put up with (and ignore) the stuff
that doesn't appeal or apply to them.
--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
> >>Some people would prefer sweet chitchat, vaguely supportive, over any realThose are the two ends of the spectrum. Most of us are in between, of course,
>
> >>and potentially dangerous critique or information. Some other people
> >>think that would be a total waste of time and wouldn't bother to belong
> to
> >>a list that was basically a teaparty.>>
>
> Those aren't the only choices. ;-)
but I think what Sandra is saying is that some people really don't want ANY
posts at the "potentially dangerous" end of the spectrum and would be happy
if all posts were at the chit-chat sweet and always-supportive-of-everything
end instead. I'm not interested in sweet chitchat. I have other places for
that, for one thing, and this list has such a powerhouse of people with
really outside-the-box ideas that I want to hear them straight and undiluted.
Sometimes what someone says to me makes me catch my breath and it can even
hurt and pretty often makes me want to jump to my own defense. I've learned
to resist that first impulse (usually) and spend time thinking about WHY I
care. WHY did it get an internal reaction from me? Why would I care what
someone on some email list said? Why does it touch me? It HAS to be because
it is touching something that is in ME --I have to recognize that, because
otherwise why would I care at all? As much admiration as I have for all of
you - most of you are not people I know enough about to take what you say too
seriously JUST because you said it. It is the content of your posts that
matters - not that you said it. There is an impersonal nature to email list
discussions when there are hundreds of people on the list -- it is great
since it means the content is what really counts, not the person who happens
to say something. So if it gets to me, it is the content and I know that I
need to examine that content and how it applies to me. I'd way rather have my
thinking challenged even if it is hard to hear - even if my first reaction is
"How DARE she talk to me like that?" I'd so much rather have that then people
just offering me goodhearted, well-meaning supportive comments. I'm not in
that place where I, personally, have a need for that kind of thing - at least
not from a relatively impersonal email list. I really need to be stretched
and challenged and even attacked a little - to grow. Others really NEED
people to send them hugs and need to be validated that they're "okay." I
don't know how to reconcile these different needs on one list except to
expect everyone to be mature enough to put up with (and ignore) the stuff
that doesn't appeal or apply to them.
--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
i think the truth in most post are exactly what some of us need and that i
prefer. i would never get a honest no gloves kind of answer anywhere else.
you ladies are full of wonderful ideas newbies such as myself are looking
for, PLEASE don't change a thing. sometimes the truth hurts, but if you
didn't want to know you should not have asked.
thanks for the honesty!!!!
tina
prefer. i would never get a honest no gloves kind of answer anywhere else.
you ladies are full of wonderful ideas newbies such as myself are looking
for, PLEASE don't change a thing. sometimes the truth hurts, but if you
didn't want to know you should not have asked.
thanks for the honesty!!!!
tina