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In a message dated 10/7/99 5:22:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
talarr@... writes:

<< There's no such thing as an eternal condition of "being a spanking
parent". Spanking is an action that can stop at any time when you realize
that there are more effective ways to discipline your child and model for
them the dynamics you want them to learn to live regarding respect for other
people and other people's bodies. >>

I have to agree with this based upon personal experience. When my
oldest, now 15, was 4 and 5, I used spanking with him sometimes. When my
next sons (twins) were 3 or 4, I used it still sometimes, usually with the
one who was more aggressive and tended to hit his brother. I now shudder at
the thought. I realized that I was doing exactly what I told him not to do
and I even witnessed him hitting his brother a few times in a way that seemed
very similar to his being spanked, as if he were "disciplining" his brother.
I am so glad that I stopped this completely and made a decision that my kids
would never be spanked again.
I now feel like it is a violent thing and it bothers me when I see
friends hit their children. It seems like there are always more effective
ways of handling problems. I have noticed that children who are not hit seem
to be less aggressive and so I believe that parents may be inadvertently
aggravating the problems they wish to solve when they spank. I hope this
does not alienate those who feel differently.

Lucy

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In a message dated 10/7/99 6:09:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
LASaliger@... writes:

<< I have noticed that children who are not hit seem
to be less aggressive and so I believe that parents may be inadvertently
aggravating the problems they wish to solve when they spank. >>

I have seen both parents who don't spank with aggressive kids and parents who
spank with non-aggressive kids. There are so many extenuating circumstances.
I think this is an over generalization.
Both my sister and a friend once told me that they thought that their kids
were
good because they were such affective parents. ( I have had several difficult
children)
Then they each had a difficult child and realized it wasn't their parenting
as much as it was the fact that they had more compliant children. Well,
that's my 2 cents worth.

Laura
<Bonknit@...>

Joel Hawthorne

While this may be new territory for some people there is an absolutely
overwhelming body of evidence that corporal punishment has destructive
consequences. There is broad epidemiological evidence that corporal punishment
is a significant contributing factor to offending behaviours of all sorts. In
addition there is significant evidence that striking children on the buttocks
leads to a variety of sexual paraphilias in some of them. The buttocks are an
erogenous zone so this is not a mystery.

For me this topic is much like circumcision. The weight of the evidence is so
detailed and thorough that I have come to the conclusion that internal psychic
barriers, e.g. the need to defend one's own parents etc.play a significant part
of people's inability to see the evidence, understand it and change their
behaviour.

LASaliger@... wrote:

> From: LASaliger@...
>
> In a message dated 10/7/99 5:22:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> talarr@... writes:
>
> << There's no such thing as an eternal condition of "being a spanking
> parent". Spanking is an action that can stop at any time when you realize
> that there are more effective ways to discipline your child and model for
> them the dynamics you want them to learn to live regarding respect for other
> people and other people's bodies. >>
>
> I have to agree with this based upon personal experience. When my
> oldest, now 15, was 4 and 5, I used spanking with him sometimes. When my
> next sons (twins) were 3 or 4, I used it still sometimes, usually with the
> one who was more aggressive and tended to hit his brother. I now shudder at
> the thought. I realized that I was doing exactly what I told him not to do
> and I even witnessed him hitting his brother a few times in a way that seemed
> very similar to his being spanked, as if he were "disciplining" his brother.
> I am so glad that I stopped this completely and made a decision that my kids
> would never be spanked again.
> I now feel like it is a violent thing and it bothers me when I see
> friends hit their children. It seems like there are always more effective
> ways of handling problems. I have noticed that children who are not hit seem
> to be less aggressive and so I believe that parents may be inadvertently
> aggravating the problems they wish to solve when they spank. I hope this
> does not alienate those who feel differently.
>
> Lucy

best wishes
Joel

All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/

Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e. restorative
justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org

Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall

>Then they each had a difficult child and realized it wasn't their parenting
>as much as it was the fact that they had more compliant children. Well,
>that's my 2 cents worth.
>
>Laura

Often, when I am at playgroup or other social groups involving children the
ages of mine, I count my blessings that I have two "easy" kids. My eldest
is VERY active and enthusiastic and runs on rocket fuel. But he is gentle
and affectionate, and usually responds to discipline (time outs, revoking
of priveledges, etc) very well.

His younger brother (19 months) is even easier, being shy and sensative. I
don't even have to use a cross tone with him, as he is so sensative that he
will cry if i do. I say, "Alex, no-no, don't do that.." or whatever the
situation calls for, and he stops and says "Ooooohhh Kay!" most of the time.

And here I thought, what with Murphy's Law and all, that my second child
would be a "difficult" one because my first was relatively easy (except for
his allergies and medical conditions that is.)

Nanci K. in Idaho