breastfeeding
tamokey
I just wanted to comment about the breastfeeding issue.� It was always my intention to breastfeed, we did not buy any bottles, formula nothing.� My pregnancy
was high-risk, at 33 weeks I went to a perineonatogist (?), every week for a BPP-30 minutes of fetal heart monitoring and extensive sonogram until I
delivered.� That was in addition to my regular obstetrician visits.� This was my 5th pregnancy-no children.� Between 41- 42 weeks the decision was made to
induce me, even though I was in labor.� Eleven and a half hours later, our daughter was born.� Thirty-six hours later we went home.� Three days later my milk
came in.� Within in three more days, nursing produced much anguish and many tears from both of us.� Husband made the suggestion to give her a bottle.� I
refused.� I called La Leche League, my doctor, etc.� Nothing helped and I was in no state to "go to them" for help.� I started pumping into bottles, great
relief.� A few weeks later we switched to formula and the whole atmosphere changed.� Instead of a home that was full of stress and chaos, it was filled with
contentment and a baby who was satisfied and starting to sleep 5-6 hours at night.� Since then I have lost another pregnancy and have come to the conclusion
that I never will uncover the "joys" of breastfeeding.� That is fine by us.� Our family is perfect the way it is and we all know the benefits that nursing
have, but for some of us it is not the "best" thing for the family.
I am not trying to discourage breastfeeding, but there are those among us that can't, or choose not to and it is not wrong to choose what works well.� My
daughter is now almost six years old and she is hardly ever sick!� Three colds, three ear infections, chicken pox, croup and one mild case of pneumonia.� I
would say being ill 9 times in 6 years, is not that bad.� That is a lot less then her cousins who were all breastfed for a year or more!
I feel that there are breastfeeding advocates out there that are just as demeaning as anti homeschoolers.� It is once again about choices for your family, no
one elses.� What is right for you, is not what is right for others.� I do support the right to breastfeed in public, where ever because it is natural and it
is a choice.� But for those who tend to be overzealous, it is not for everyone.
BTW I do believe in attachment parenting and we have a family bed in this household!!
I know this is long.� Just a different viewpoint.
Andi
�
�
was high-risk, at 33 weeks I went to a perineonatogist (?), every week for a BPP-30 minutes of fetal heart monitoring and extensive sonogram until I
delivered.� That was in addition to my regular obstetrician visits.� This was my 5th pregnancy-no children.� Between 41- 42 weeks the decision was made to
induce me, even though I was in labor.� Eleven and a half hours later, our daughter was born.� Thirty-six hours later we went home.� Three days later my milk
came in.� Within in three more days, nursing produced much anguish and many tears from both of us.� Husband made the suggestion to give her a bottle.� I
refused.� I called La Leche League, my doctor, etc.� Nothing helped and I was in no state to "go to them" for help.� I started pumping into bottles, great
relief.� A few weeks later we switched to formula and the whole atmosphere changed.� Instead of a home that was full of stress and chaos, it was filled with
contentment and a baby who was satisfied and starting to sleep 5-6 hours at night.� Since then I have lost another pregnancy and have come to the conclusion
that I never will uncover the "joys" of breastfeeding.� That is fine by us.� Our family is perfect the way it is and we all know the benefits that nursing
have, but for some of us it is not the "best" thing for the family.
I am not trying to discourage breastfeeding, but there are those among us that can't, or choose not to and it is not wrong to choose what works well.� My
daughter is now almost six years old and she is hardly ever sick!� Three colds, three ear infections, chicken pox, croup and one mild case of pneumonia.� I
would say being ill 9 times in 6 years, is not that bad.� That is a lot less then her cousins who were all breastfed for a year or more!
I feel that there are breastfeeding advocates out there that are just as demeaning as anti homeschoolers.� It is once again about choices for your family, no
one elses.� What is right for you, is not what is right for others.� I do support the right to breastfeed in public, where ever because it is natural and it
is a choice.� But for those who tend to be overzealous, it is not for everyone.
BTW I do believe in attachment parenting and we have a family bed in this household!!
I know this is long.� Just a different viewpoint.
Andi
�
�
A. Yates
Andi, I remember vividly the pain of breastfeeding. It can be very painful, but with time gets better.
This is in my case it did, and this was with all three children. I nursed all of them for about a year and a half.
Ann
PS, I'm surprised La Leche couldn't send you someone to help.
This is in my case it did, and this was with all three children. I nursed all of them for about a year and a half.
Ann
PS, I'm surprised La Leche couldn't send you someone to help.
faith buckley
Andi,
I hope nothing I said made you think that I believe breastfeeding is the only healthy way to do it, because that is not how I feel. Sometimes it's hard for
others to understand what you mean over e-mail. I only nursed my son for 2 months and he is one of the healthiest kids I know. He rarely ever gets sick. He
has a health record about the same as your daughters, which I consider very good also, compared to other kids I know. Breastfeeding is the most natural way to
feed our babies but sometimes there are extinuating (sp?) circumstances that make it impossible. My pastor and his wife just had their 3rd girl and both the
first and the 3rd refused to nurse. They just wanted nothing to do with it. They had to start using formula, also. The oldest is now 5 and a healthy, adorable
little girl and the youngest is now 4 months and is very healthy as well. I agree that it has to be what works best for the family. Their youngest is very
content with daddy as well as mommy and friends, where mine knows where her food comes from and isn't so content with dad or others. I love having my daughter
with me wherever I go but sometimes I wish that my husband and I could go to dinner alone.
Now with attachment parenting did you go out every once in a while, just you and your husband, or was the baby always with you? Also, when baby fell asleep did
you put her in a crib or ... what did you do? I'm just curious. I know some of you have talked about keeping the baby in a sling on you, but I can't imagine
for the sake of my back. I don't have the greatest back as it is, and I would think that it would make it worse. I would love to hear what you, and anyone
else, have to say.
Living for Him,
Faith
I hope nothing I said made you think that I believe breastfeeding is the only healthy way to do it, because that is not how I feel. Sometimes it's hard for
others to understand what you mean over e-mail. I only nursed my son for 2 months and he is one of the healthiest kids I know. He rarely ever gets sick. He
has a health record about the same as your daughters, which I consider very good also, compared to other kids I know. Breastfeeding is the most natural way to
feed our babies but sometimes there are extinuating (sp?) circumstances that make it impossible. My pastor and his wife just had their 3rd girl and both the
first and the 3rd refused to nurse. They just wanted nothing to do with it. They had to start using formula, also. The oldest is now 5 and a healthy, adorable
little girl and the youngest is now 4 months and is very healthy as well. I agree that it has to be what works best for the family. Their youngest is very
content with daddy as well as mommy and friends, where mine knows where her food comes from and isn't so content with dad or others. I love having my daughter
with me wherever I go but sometimes I wish that my husband and I could go to dinner alone.
Now with attachment parenting did you go out every once in a while, just you and your husband, or was the baby always with you? Also, when baby fell asleep did
you put her in a crib or ... what did you do? I'm just curious. I know some of you have talked about keeping the baby in a sling on you, but I can't imagine
for the sake of my back. I don't have the greatest back as it is, and I would think that it would make it worse. I would love to hear what you, and anyone
else, have to say.
Living for Him,
Faith
Carolyn Talarr
Hi Andi,
Your story doesn't actually seem like a different viewpoint to me, just a
sad story of someone who really wanted to do something that's clearly best
for a baby but often extremely difficult, and didn't have the necessary
support. La Leche was totally necessary for me the first year; I'm so sorry
that you didn't get what you needed from them. I also called pretty much
every registered lactation consultant in Philadelphia. I'm probably on
their "insane women" list now...:)
Just because it's from our bodies doesn't mean it always comes naturally and
smoothly. As another example, I know that unmedicated, unintervened birth
is clearly best for babies, but Annie did not get one of those. I regret it
every day and think about it every day. And we probably won't have another,
so I won't get to experience the kinds of births I read about that other
women have. It hurts every time I read one, even though I'm happy for the
women. I relive the horrible beginning I gave Annie. The one birth I will
have experienced was horrible and almost tragically fatal. I ain't no earth
mother, even though I'm still nursing Annie at 25 mos.
Having things we wish had gone differently is probably totally par for the
course for parenting. We do the best we can, always reflecting and trying
to foresee whatever problems will arise and be as informed as we can and
*still*, fate disposes.
Carolyn
Your story doesn't actually seem like a different viewpoint to me, just a
sad story of someone who really wanted to do something that's clearly best
for a baby but often extremely difficult, and didn't have the necessary
support. La Leche was totally necessary for me the first year; I'm so sorry
that you didn't get what you needed from them. I also called pretty much
every registered lactation consultant in Philadelphia. I'm probably on
their "insane women" list now...:)
Just because it's from our bodies doesn't mean it always comes naturally and
smoothly. As another example, I know that unmedicated, unintervened birth
is clearly best for babies, but Annie did not get one of those. I regret it
every day and think about it every day. And we probably won't have another,
so I won't get to experience the kinds of births I read about that other
women have. It hurts every time I read one, even though I'm happy for the
women. I relive the horrible beginning I gave Annie. The one birth I will
have experienced was horrible and almost tragically fatal. I ain't no earth
mother, even though I'm still nursing Annie at 25 mos.
Having things we wish had gone differently is probably totally par for the
course for parenting. We do the best we can, always reflecting and trying
to foresee whatever problems will arise and be as informed as we can and
*still*, fate disposes.
Carolyn
Pam Hartley
----------
cracking and agony for three weeks because I wasn't positioning her right
(so said the helpful chirpy folks with more fortunate skin tones who never
had a moment's twinge of discomfort). I was incredibly stubborn, though (not
an ususual occurence <g>) and after a few weeks, I toughened up and things
went fine.
So with the second baby, I knew all about positioning. I positioned the heck
out of that tyke. Still three weeks of holding in yelps of agony at latch
on, cracked nipples, the works. But I knew it would get better, and it did,
and she's two tomorrow and still nursing up a storm.
It's not always an easy journey, and if I have one complaint about La Leche
et al (at least some members) it's that assumption that everyone can have a
nice easy time of it. Many can, some can't, and if it gets too hard or
people don't WANT to yelp for three weeks, it's not a grave sin against
babykind...
Hey, I'm back. <g> Been a busy few weeks here, I've been skimming and not
participating.
Pam
pamhartley@...
>From: "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>Yep -- I'm very fair and with the first baby, I figured I had all the nipple
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] breastfeeding
>Date: Thu, Oct 7, 1999, 8:28 AM
>
>I remember vividly the pain of breastfeeding. It can be very painful, but
>with time gets better.
cracking and agony for three weeks because I wasn't positioning her right
(so said the helpful chirpy folks with more fortunate skin tones who never
had a moment's twinge of discomfort). I was incredibly stubborn, though (not
an ususual occurence <g>) and after a few weeks, I toughened up and things
went fine.
So with the second baby, I knew all about positioning. I positioned the heck
out of that tyke. Still three weeks of holding in yelps of agony at latch
on, cracked nipples, the works. But I knew it would get better, and it did,
and she's two tomorrow and still nursing up a storm.
It's not always an easy journey, and if I have one complaint about La Leche
et al (at least some members) it's that assumption that everyone can have a
nice easy time of it. Many can, some can't, and if it gets too hard or
people don't WANT to yelp for three weeks, it's not a grave sin against
babykind...
Hey, I'm back. <g> Been a busy few weeks here, I've been skimming and not
participating.
Pam
pamhartley@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/7/99 2:58:34 PM EST, faithb@... writes:
<< Now with attachment parenting did you go out every once in a while, just
you and your husband, or was the baby always with you? Also, when baby fell
asleep did
you put her in a crib or ... what did you do? >>
Faith,
I don't fancy myself as an attachment parent, however, my oldest son is 10
1/2 and we have only ever left either son once with a baby-sitter in the same
hotel that we were in, just down stairs and lately, as they are older, we
have let them spend the night with friends, together, 4 times. My husband is
from Jamaica and they 1, let the kids sleep in the same bed with them for
however long it takes, 2, don't ever leave with baby-sitter, if the kids
aren't welcome, they don't go. Of course, in Ja, things are a lot different
then here in the US. Lots of things are better here economically, but not to
the benefit of families and kids. We are together 24/7 and I really don't
find that a problem. I nursed both boys till they were 12 months, at which
point, much to my disappointment, they weaned themselves. Every thing I have
ever done in my 50 years of life has been against the grain of whatever was
popular at the time. In all things you must do for yourself what is right
and fitting for you, not your best friend or your mom or dad. Life is to
short and children grow up and move out of our homes so quickly, love, enjoy
hold them close while you can.
Teresa
<< Now with attachment parenting did you go out every once in a while, just
you and your husband, or was the baby always with you? Also, when baby fell
asleep did
you put her in a crib or ... what did you do? >>
Faith,
I don't fancy myself as an attachment parent, however, my oldest son is 10
1/2 and we have only ever left either son once with a baby-sitter in the same
hotel that we were in, just down stairs and lately, as they are older, we
have let them spend the night with friends, together, 4 times. My husband is
from Jamaica and they 1, let the kids sleep in the same bed with them for
however long it takes, 2, don't ever leave with baby-sitter, if the kids
aren't welcome, they don't go. Of course, in Ja, things are a lot different
then here in the US. Lots of things are better here economically, but not to
the benefit of families and kids. We are together 24/7 and I really don't
find that a problem. I nursed both boys till they were 12 months, at which
point, much to my disappointment, they weaned themselves. Every thing I have
ever done in my 50 years of life has been against the grain of whatever was
popular at the time. In all things you must do for yourself what is right
and fitting for you, not your best friend or your mom or dad. Life is to
short and children grow up and move out of our homes so quickly, love, enjoy
hold them close while you can.
Teresa
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/7/99 10:20:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
tamokey@... writes:
<< I feel that there are breastfeeding advocates out there that are just as
demeaning as anti homeschoolers.� It is once again about choices for your
family, no
one elses.� What is right for you, is not what is right for others.� I do
support the right to breastfeed in public, where ever because it is natural
and it
is a choice.� But for those who tend to be overzealous, it is not for
everyone.
BTW I do believe in attachment parenting and we have a family bed in this
household!!
I know this is long.� Just a different viewpoint. >>
Andi,
I sure hope that I wasn't demeaning in any way when I talked of
breastfeeding.
As I have said, I did not nurse my first two children (I also had alot of
difficulties in trying to nurse my first one). However, I was finally able
to nurse my last two children. This has made me very excited about nursing,
but I do not look down on those women who do not nurse. Most of my friends
did not, as it was not as popular when we were having children. The health
difference that I pointed out was between my own four children. My first two
were sick alot with colds, allergies, ear infections etc. My last two were
not sick much at all. To me, that was a big blessing!! My oldest was sick
so often with ear infections, that he couldn't even hear or talk for the
first 4 years of his life. We were in the doctors office every time we
turned around. That is exhausting!!! I was thrilled when we didn't have to
go through that again!
I am sorry for all your problems with miscarriage. I also had
miscarriages after our fourth child, and I know how devastating that can be.
Blessings to you and your beautiful 6 yr. old daughter :-)
Tami
tamokey@... writes:
<< I feel that there are breastfeeding advocates out there that are just as
demeaning as anti homeschoolers.� It is once again about choices for your
family, no
one elses.� What is right for you, is not what is right for others.� I do
support the right to breastfeed in public, where ever because it is natural
and it
is a choice.� But for those who tend to be overzealous, it is not for
everyone.
BTW I do believe in attachment parenting and we have a family bed in this
household!!
I know this is long.� Just a different viewpoint. >>
Andi,
I sure hope that I wasn't demeaning in any way when I talked of
breastfeeding.
As I have said, I did not nurse my first two children (I also had alot of
difficulties in trying to nurse my first one). However, I was finally able
to nurse my last two children. This has made me very excited about nursing,
but I do not look down on those women who do not nurse. Most of my friends
did not, as it was not as popular when we were having children. The health
difference that I pointed out was between my own four children. My first two
were sick alot with colds, allergies, ear infections etc. My last two were
not sick much at all. To me, that was a big blessing!! My oldest was sick
so often with ear infections, that he couldn't even hear or talk for the
first 4 years of his life. We were in the doctors office every time we
turned around. That is exhausting!!! I was thrilled when we didn't have to
go through that again!
I am sorry for all your problems with miscarriage. I also had
miscarriages after our fourth child, and I know how devastating that can be.
Blessings to you and your beautiful 6 yr. old daughter :-)
Tami
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/7/99 2:58:23 PM Central Daylight Time, faithb@...
writes:
<< Also, when baby fell asleep did
you put her in a crib or ... what did you do? I'm just curious. I know
some of you have talked about keeping the baby in a sling on you, but I can't
imagine
for the sake of my back. I don't have the greatest back as it is, and I
would think that it would make it worse. >>
Faith,
My back isn't the greatest either. I had an old Cosco (I think that is
right) cloth back/front baby carrier. It was a pain strapping the baby in
(it took a few minutes to get everything hooked up right) but the straps
criss-crossed my back and had another strap around the small of my back. It
wasn't uncomfortable at all, unless I had been walking or standing for long
periods of time (in which case my back would hurt anyway*g*). Anyway, at a
LLL meeting, I heard about the sling, so I went right out and bought one.
Well that thing *Killed* my back <grrrrhhh>. I tried it on my hips and all
different positions. Finally the LLL leader said that everyone couldn't use
them, that some people liked other packpacks better. She still highly
encourage slings (for most people they are great), but for some people with
bad backs they don't work! I loves my other carrier though. I wore my
children nestled up against my chest and had both arms free to do dishes or
other jobs. (if only it was easier to get them strapped into the thing
*grin*.
Tami
writes:
<< Also, when baby fell asleep did
you put her in a crib or ... what did you do? I'm just curious. I know
some of you have talked about keeping the baby in a sling on you, but I can't
imagine
for the sake of my back. I don't have the greatest back as it is, and I
would think that it would make it worse. >>
Faith,
My back isn't the greatest either. I had an old Cosco (I think that is
right) cloth back/front baby carrier. It was a pain strapping the baby in
(it took a few minutes to get everything hooked up right) but the straps
criss-crossed my back and had another strap around the small of my back. It
wasn't uncomfortable at all, unless I had been walking or standing for long
periods of time (in which case my back would hurt anyway*g*). Anyway, at a
LLL meeting, I heard about the sling, so I went right out and bought one.
Well that thing *Killed* my back <grrrrhhh>. I tried it on my hips and all
different positions. Finally the LLL leader said that everyone couldn't use
them, that some people liked other packpacks better. She still highly
encourage slings (for most people they are great), but for some people with
bad backs they don't work! I loves my other carrier though. I wore my
children nestled up against my chest and had both arms free to do dishes or
other jobs. (if only it was easier to get them strapped into the thing
*grin*.
Tami
Joel Hawthorne
Teresa,
Sounds like attachment parenting to me and more power to you!
Hsmotgo@... wrote:
best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e. restorative
justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
Sounds like attachment parenting to me and more power to you!
Hsmotgo@... wrote:
> From: Hsmotgo@...--
>
> In a message dated 10/7/99 2:58:34 PM EST, faithb@... writes:
>
> << Now with attachment parenting did you go out every once in a while, just
> you and your husband, or was the baby always with you? Also, when baby fell
> asleep did
> you put her in a crib or ... what did you do? >>
> Faith,
> I don't fancy myself as an attachment parent, however, my oldest son is 10
> 1/2 and we have only ever left either son once with a baby-sitter in the same
> hotel that we were in, just down stairs and lately, as they are older, we
> have let them spend the night with friends, together, 4 times. My husband is
> from Jamaica and they 1, let the kids sleep in the same bed with them for
> however long it takes, 2, don't ever leave with baby-sitter, if the kids
> aren't welcome, they don't go. Of course, in Ja, things are a lot different
> then here in the US. Lots of things are better here economically, but not to
> the benefit of families and kids. We are together 24/7 and I really don't
> find that a problem. I nursed both boys till they were 12 months, at which
> point, much to my disappointment, they weaned themselves. Every thing I have
> ever done in my 50 years of life has been against the grain of whatever was
> popular at the time. In all things you must do for yourself what is right
> and fitting for you, not your best friend or your mom or dad. Life is to
> short and children grow up and move out of our homes so quickly, love, enjoy
> hold them close while you can.
> Teresa
>
> > Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com
best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e. restorative
justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
[email protected]
Andi, I am sorry that breastfeding did not work for you. If you did
everything you could do than you don't owe anyone an apology.
Congratulations on your precious daughter! I'm sure she means even more
to you for everything you went through.
Breastfeeding is an issue were "informed choice" stands out loud and
clear. The majority of people who don't breastfeed did not have adequate
support or did not have adequate information before making the choice.
I can't speak to your situation. I wasn't there and don't know all the
details. La Leche League Leaders are VOLUNTEERS and are not required to
make home visits. (Although some will, did you ask?) Because most LLL
Leaders have children at home, making home visits would require that they
find a babysitter or bring their children with them. Lactation
consultants are paid, and many of them will make home visits, for a fee.
When we talk about breastfeeding and health issues, its a numbers game.
Breastfed children can become ill. Artificial baby-milk fed children can
be quite healthy. But if you look at 1000's of children, those who were
breastfed are less likely to be seriously ill, less likely to be
hospitalized for illnesses, and have shorter durations of illness. In
some parts of the world, children not breastfed die everyday!
In spite of the small number of women who truly CAN'T breastfeed, it is
still the best choice for all the rest! We have no problem making
parents feel bad if they don't use car seats or vaccinate (debatable
isssue).
Mary Ellen
Books Fall Open, You Fall In
http://www.homestead.com/gateskate
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
everything you could do than you don't owe anyone an apology.
Congratulations on your precious daughter! I'm sure she means even more
to you for everything you went through.
Breastfeeding is an issue were "informed choice" stands out loud and
clear. The majority of people who don't breastfeed did not have adequate
support or did not have adequate information before making the choice.
I can't speak to your situation. I wasn't there and don't know all the
details. La Leche League Leaders are VOLUNTEERS and are not required to
make home visits. (Although some will, did you ask?) Because most LLL
Leaders have children at home, making home visits would require that they
find a babysitter or bring their children with them. Lactation
consultants are paid, and many of them will make home visits, for a fee.
When we talk about breastfeeding and health issues, its a numbers game.
Breastfed children can become ill. Artificial baby-milk fed children can
be quite healthy. But if you look at 1000's of children, those who were
breastfed are less likely to be seriously ill, less likely to be
hospitalized for illnesses, and have shorter durations of illness. In
some parts of the world, children not breastfed die everyday!
In spite of the small number of women who truly CAN'T breastfeed, it is
still the best choice for all the rest! We have no problem making
parents feel bad if they don't use car seats or vaccinate (debatable
isssue).
Mary Ellen
Books Fall Open, You Fall In
http://www.homestead.com/gateskate
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
[email protected]
Hi gang,
It sounds like another lively discussion is up and coming, since the subject
of breastfeeding has been brought up. I happily nursed son #1 until he
weaned himself. Son #2 was nursed for several months and then started
formula. I am now happily bottlefeeding my daughter. All three of the kids
have thrived on their food.
Please, please, let's not get started on Breast Vs. Bottle. That has got to
be the most flame-inducing topic I have ever run across on any board or list
I have ever been on. Everyone has their own reasons for choosing one or the
other. Also, if we could be sure to post this discussion under the subject
line of Breastfeeding then anyone who is not interested could skip over those
posts.
Thanks a million! : )
*** KiM ***
runs with scissors
It sounds like another lively discussion is up and coming, since the subject
of breastfeeding has been brought up. I happily nursed son #1 until he
weaned himself. Son #2 was nursed for several months and then started
formula. I am now happily bottlefeeding my daughter. All three of the kids
have thrived on their food.
Please, please, let's not get started on Breast Vs. Bottle. That has got to
be the most flame-inducing topic I have ever run across on any board or list
I have ever been on. Everyone has their own reasons for choosing one or the
other. Also, if we could be sure to post this discussion under the subject
line of Breastfeeding then anyone who is not interested could skip over those
posts.
Thanks a million! : )
*** KiM ***
runs with scissors
metta
on 4/4/00 9:39 AM, monkeycoop@... at monkeycoop@... wrote:
But anyway, this isn't just about breastfeeding. This is about the husband
"not letting" the mom do what she feels is best for her child. That's a
whole 'nother issue.
--
Thea
metta@...
> Please, please, let's not get started on Breast Vs. Bottle. That has got toAnd I thought circumcision was the most flame-inducing topic...
> be the most flame-inducing topic I have ever run across on any board or list
> I have ever been on. Everyone has their own reasons for choosing one or the
> other.
But anyway, this isn't just about breastfeeding. This is about the husband
"not letting" the mom do what she feels is best for her child. That's a
whole 'nother issue.
--
Thea
metta@...
[email protected]
This was sent to me from another list. -Amalia-
Why Nurse A Toddler?
by Dr. Jack Newman
More and more mothers are choosing to breastfeed their babies, but
unfortunately, many moms feel that they need to stop before one year. You
may ask, "But why would anyone want to nurse a toddler? How will he become
independent?" Dr. Jack Newman answers our concerns and reveals the often
overlooked benefits of nursing a toddler.
Breastfeed a Toddler - Why on Earth?
Because more and more women are now breastfeeding their babies, more and
more are also finding that they enjoy breastfeeding enough to want to
continue longer than the usual few months they initially thought they would
do it.
UNICEF has long encouraged breastfeeding for two years and longer, and the
American Academy of Pediatrics is now on record as encouraging mothers to
nurse at least one year and as long after as both mother and baby desire.
Breastfeeding to 3 and 4 years of age has been common in much of the world
until recently, and breastfeeding toddlers is still common in many societies.
Why should breastfeeding continue past six months?
Because mothers and babies often enjoy breastfeeding a lot. Why stop an
enjoyable relationship?
But it is said that breastmilk has no value after six months.
Perhaps this is said, but it is wrong. That anyone can say such a thing
only shows how ignorant so many people in our society are about
breastfeeding. Breastmilk is, after all, milk. Even after six months, it
still contains protein, fat, and other nutritionally important and
appropriate elements which babies and children need.
Breastmilk still contains immunologic factors which help protect the baby.
In fact, some immune factors in breastmilk which protect the baby against
infection are present in greater amounts in the second year of life than in
the first. This is, of course as it should be, since children older than a
year are generally exposed to more infection. Breastmilk still contains
factors which help the immune system to mature, and which help the brain,
gut, and other organs to develop and mature.
It has been well shown that children in daycare who are still breastfeeding
have far fewer and less severe infections than the children who are not
breastfeeding. The mother thus loses less work time if she continues
nursing her baby once she is back at her paid work.
It is interesting that formula company marketing pushes the use of formula
(a rather imperfect copy of the real thing) for a year, yet implies that
breastmilk (from which the imperfect copy is copied) is only worthwhile for
6 months. Too many health professionals have taken up the refrain.
I have heard that the immunologic factors prevent the baby from developing
his own immunity if I breastfeed past six months.
This is untrue; in fact, this is absurd. It is unbelievable how so many
people in our society twist around the advantages of breastfeeding and turn
them into disadvantages. We give babies immunizations so that they are able
to defend themselves against the real infection.
Breastmilk also allows the baby to be able to fight off infections. When
the baby fights off these infections, he becomes immune. Naturally.
But I want my baby to become independent.
And breastfeeding makes the toddler dependent? Don't believe it. The child
who breastfeeds until he weans himself (usually from 2 to 4 years), is
generally more independent, and, perhaps more importantly, more secure in
his independence. He has received comfort and security from the breast,
until he is ready to make the step himself to stop.
And when he makes that step himself, he knows he has achieved something, he
knows he has moved ahead. It is a milestone in his life. Often we push
children to become "independent" too quickly. To sleep alone too soon, to
wean from the breast too soon, to do without their parents too soon, to do
everything too soon. Don't push and the child will become independent soon
enough. What's the rush? Soon they will be leaving home. You want them to
leave home at 14?
Of course, breastfeeding can, in some situations, be used to foster an
over-dependent relationship. But so can food and toilet training. The
problem is not the breastfeeding. This is another issue.
What else?
Possibly the most important aspect of nursing a toddler is not the
nutritional or immunologic benefits, important as they are. I believe the
most important aspect of nursing a toddler is the special relationship
between child and mother.
Breastfeeding is a life affirming act of love. This continues when the baby
becomes a toddler. Anyone without prejudices, who has ever observed an
older baby or toddler nursing can testify that there is something almost
magical, something special, something far beyond food going on. A nursing
toddler will sometimes spontaneously break into laughter for no obvious
reason. His delight in the breast goes far beyond a source of food.
And if the mother allows herself, breastfeeding becomes a source of delight
for her as well, far beyond the pleasure of providing food. Of course, it's
not always great, but what is? But when it is, it makes it all so worthwhile.
And if the child does become ill or does get hurt (and they do as they meet
other children and become more daring), what easier way to comfort the
child than breastfeeding? I remember nights in the emergency department
when mothers would walk their ill, non nursing babies or toddlers up and
down the halls trying, often unsuccessfully, to console them, while the
nursing mothers were sitting quietly with their comforted, if not
necessarily happy, babies at the breast.
The mother comforts the sick child with breastfeeding, and the child
comforts the mother by breastfeeding.
Why Nurse A Toddler?
by Dr. Jack Newman
More and more mothers are choosing to breastfeed their babies, but
unfortunately, many moms feel that they need to stop before one year. You
may ask, "But why would anyone want to nurse a toddler? How will he become
independent?" Dr. Jack Newman answers our concerns and reveals the often
overlooked benefits of nursing a toddler.
Breastfeed a Toddler - Why on Earth?
Because more and more women are now breastfeeding their babies, more and
more are also finding that they enjoy breastfeeding enough to want to
continue longer than the usual few months they initially thought they would
do it.
UNICEF has long encouraged breastfeeding for two years and longer, and the
American Academy of Pediatrics is now on record as encouraging mothers to
nurse at least one year and as long after as both mother and baby desire.
Breastfeeding to 3 and 4 years of age has been common in much of the world
until recently, and breastfeeding toddlers is still common in many societies.
Why should breastfeeding continue past six months?
Because mothers and babies often enjoy breastfeeding a lot. Why stop an
enjoyable relationship?
But it is said that breastmilk has no value after six months.
Perhaps this is said, but it is wrong. That anyone can say such a thing
only shows how ignorant so many people in our society are about
breastfeeding. Breastmilk is, after all, milk. Even after six months, it
still contains protein, fat, and other nutritionally important and
appropriate elements which babies and children need.
Breastmilk still contains immunologic factors which help protect the baby.
In fact, some immune factors in breastmilk which protect the baby against
infection are present in greater amounts in the second year of life than in
the first. This is, of course as it should be, since children older than a
year are generally exposed to more infection. Breastmilk still contains
factors which help the immune system to mature, and which help the brain,
gut, and other organs to develop and mature.
It has been well shown that children in daycare who are still breastfeeding
have far fewer and less severe infections than the children who are not
breastfeeding. The mother thus loses less work time if she continues
nursing her baby once she is back at her paid work.
It is interesting that formula company marketing pushes the use of formula
(a rather imperfect copy of the real thing) for a year, yet implies that
breastmilk (from which the imperfect copy is copied) is only worthwhile for
6 months. Too many health professionals have taken up the refrain.
I have heard that the immunologic factors prevent the baby from developing
his own immunity if I breastfeed past six months.
This is untrue; in fact, this is absurd. It is unbelievable how so many
people in our society twist around the advantages of breastfeeding and turn
them into disadvantages. We give babies immunizations so that they are able
to defend themselves against the real infection.
Breastmilk also allows the baby to be able to fight off infections. When
the baby fights off these infections, he becomes immune. Naturally.
But I want my baby to become independent.
And breastfeeding makes the toddler dependent? Don't believe it. The child
who breastfeeds until he weans himself (usually from 2 to 4 years), is
generally more independent, and, perhaps more importantly, more secure in
his independence. He has received comfort and security from the breast,
until he is ready to make the step himself to stop.
And when he makes that step himself, he knows he has achieved something, he
knows he has moved ahead. It is a milestone in his life. Often we push
children to become "independent" too quickly. To sleep alone too soon, to
wean from the breast too soon, to do without their parents too soon, to do
everything too soon. Don't push and the child will become independent soon
enough. What's the rush? Soon they will be leaving home. You want them to
leave home at 14?
Of course, breastfeeding can, in some situations, be used to foster an
over-dependent relationship. But so can food and toilet training. The
problem is not the breastfeeding. This is another issue.
What else?
Possibly the most important aspect of nursing a toddler is not the
nutritional or immunologic benefits, important as they are. I believe the
most important aspect of nursing a toddler is the special relationship
between child and mother.
Breastfeeding is a life affirming act of love. This continues when the baby
becomes a toddler. Anyone without prejudices, who has ever observed an
older baby or toddler nursing can testify that there is something almost
magical, something special, something far beyond food going on. A nursing
toddler will sometimes spontaneously break into laughter for no obvious
reason. His delight in the breast goes far beyond a source of food.
And if the mother allows herself, breastfeeding becomes a source of delight
for her as well, far beyond the pleasure of providing food. Of course, it's
not always great, but what is? But when it is, it makes it all so worthwhile.
And if the child does become ill or does get hurt (and they do as they meet
other children and become more daring), what easier way to comfort the
child than breastfeeding? I remember nights in the emergency department
when mothers would walk their ill, non nursing babies or toddlers up and
down the halls trying, often unsuccessfully, to console them, while the
nursing mothers were sitting quietly with their comforted, if not
necessarily happy, babies at the breast.
The mother comforts the sick child with breastfeeding, and the child
comforts the mother by breastfeeding.
dawn
On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 adarl52357@... wrote:
week showing the benefits to the mother by reducing the incidence/rist of
breast cancer of nursing beyond infancy.
"But our findings in China are clear. The longer duration of lactation -
whether it is based on breastfeeding of a first child, or breastfeeding
over
a lifetime - leads to a significantly reduced risk of breast cancer."
***
The abstract of the study can be found at this URL:
http://aje.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/152/12/1129?maxtoshow=&HITS=
dawn h-s
> This was sent to me from another list. -Amalia-<snip Dr. Jack's article> some new research was just released this past
>
> Why Nurse A Toddler?
>
> by Dr. Jack Newman
>
week showing the benefits to the mother by reducing the incidence/rist of
breast cancer of nursing beyond infancy.
"But our findings in China are clear. The longer duration of lactation -
whether it is based on breastfeeding of a first child, or breastfeeding
over
a lifetime - leads to a significantly reduced risk of breast cancer."
***
The abstract of the study can be found at this URL:
http://aje.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/152/12/1129?maxtoshow=&HITS=
dawn h-s
Betty Polanco
Breastfeeding means healthier, more intelligent, happier. I has been breastfeeding non-stop for 10 years! I think that I will breastfeed my grantchildren as my granny did, she breastfed me!
We live in a pretty contaminated place: lot of smog from cars and some industries, we got sick a lot with allergies. I atribute breastfeeding that taking in account the contamination here at downtown, owr sons are very healthy on a proportion of : more time been breastfed=more healthier they are. Right now our 4y 3m son continues breastfed and his so lovable and healthy that I doubt weaning will come soon!
Betty
We live in a pretty contaminated place: lot of smog from cars and some industries, we got sick a lot with allergies. I atribute breastfeeding that taking in account the contamination here at downtown, owr sons are very healthy on a proportion of : more time been breastfed=more healthier they are. Right now our 4y 3m son continues breastfed and his so lovable and healthy that I doubt weaning will come soon!
Betty
----- Original Message -----
From: Rachel Ann
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: adult time
I'm breastfeeding my 3 year old...and have bf every child but one till age 4 because
it is healthier
I like it
they like it...
be well,
Rachel Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: Beth Ali
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: adult time
And I continue to breastfeed my 18 month daughter because it ALSO makes ME happy:)
Beth in Ga
----- Original Message -----
From: Pam Hartley
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:22 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: adult time
----------
>From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2487
>Date: Tue, Oct 15, 2002, 12:46 PM
>
> So many people breastfeed for the good effects that last throughout the
> child's lifetime
I breastfed because it made my babies happy.
Pam
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
I just read on the news where an Ohio woman was stopped while driving, I think on the turnpike while nursing her baby. Now I'm all out for be able to nurse anywhere, but this is just plain dangerous. Like it was just way to convenient to pull over?
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kris
<<I just read on the news where an Ohio woman was stopped while driving, I
think on the turnpike while nursing her baby. Now I'm all out for be able to
nurse anywhere, but this is just plain dangerous. Like it was just way to
convenient to pull over?
Mary B>>
I remember trying to get anywhere with a baby who screamed the entire time
she was in a car seat. I had dreams of inventing a "nursing seat belt" so
mothers could nurse and have both safely buckled at the same time.
Kris
think on the turnpike while nursing her baby. Now I'm all out for be able to
nurse anywhere, but this is just plain dangerous. Like it was just way to
convenient to pull over?
Mary B>>
I remember trying to get anywhere with a baby who screamed the entire time
she was in a car seat. I had dreams of inventing a "nursing seat belt" so
mothers could nurse and have both safely buckled at the same time.
Kris
Mary
From: "Kris" <louisa@...>
<<I remember trying to get anywhere with a baby who screamed the entire time
she was in a car seat. I had dreams of inventing a "nursing seat belt" so
mothers could nurse and have both safely buckled at the same time.>>
I'm going to put you in touch with my husband. (he's doable) I mentioned the
news article to him and well, he's always looking for a new idea to make
money on and instantly thought about devising some kind of funnel and hose
to attach to mom and then be able to hook it up to the baby!!!!!! Gotta love
him!
Mary B
<<I remember trying to get anywhere with a baby who screamed the entire time
she was in a car seat. I had dreams of inventing a "nursing seat belt" so
mothers could nurse and have both safely buckled at the same time.>>
I'm going to put you in touch with my husband. (he's doable) I mentioned the
news article to him and well, he's always looking for a new idea to make
money on and instantly thought about devising some kind of funnel and hose
to attach to mom and then be able to hook it up to the baby!!!!!! Gotta love
him!
Mary B
Joylyn
Yes, but do we blame it on breastfeeding or a stupid woman?
Joylyn
Mary wrote:
Joylyn
Mary wrote:
> I just read on the news where an Ohio woman was stopped while driving,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I think on the turnpike while nursing her baby. Now I'm all out for be
> able to nurse anywhere, but this is just plain dangerous. Like it was
> just way to convenient to pull over?
>
> Mary B
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
>
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> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
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> list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
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>
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
Joylyn
I have nursed my daughter in a car. A few times. I was NOT driving.
My daughter would be in her car seat, firmly and safely buckled. This
was when she was facing backwards, and I was facing forwards. I would
simply lean over the seat and let her nurse. It came in handy a few
times, but the woman in question was DRIVING herself, baby was not in a
car seat, but in her arms. This is downright dangerous. A year or so
ago a newborn was killed in a roll over crash. The mother also was
breastfeeding the baby, but mom was buckled in, baby was not, mom had
taken newborn (2 or so months old) out of the seat and was holding her.
Everyone survived, some were injured but all survived. Everyone else
was buckled in. I just don't get why the woman couldn't have stopped
and nursed on the side of the road (this mom was not driving).
The times I nursed janene in the car seat were times where stopping
wasn't safe, the one time I remember clearly was on the way to vegas, at
night, in the middle of no where.
Joylyn
Kris wrote:
My daughter would be in her car seat, firmly and safely buckled. This
was when she was facing backwards, and I was facing forwards. I would
simply lean over the seat and let her nurse. It came in handy a few
times, but the woman in question was DRIVING herself, baby was not in a
car seat, but in her arms. This is downright dangerous. A year or so
ago a newborn was killed in a roll over crash. The mother also was
breastfeeding the baby, but mom was buckled in, baby was not, mom had
taken newborn (2 or so months old) out of the seat and was holding her.
Everyone survived, some were injured but all survived. Everyone else
was buckled in. I just don't get why the woman couldn't have stopped
and nursed on the side of the road (this mom was not driving).
The times I nursed janene in the car seat were times where stopping
wasn't safe, the one time I remember clearly was on the way to vegas, at
night, in the middle of no where.
Joylyn
Kris wrote:
> <<I just read on the news where an Ohio woman was stopped while driving, I[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> think on the turnpike while nursing her baby. Now I'm all out for be
> able to
> nurse anywhere, but this is just plain dangerous. Like it was just way to
> convenient to pull over?
>
> Mary B>>
>
> I remember trying to get anywhere with a baby who screamed the entire time
> she was in a car seat. I had dreams of inventing a "nursing seat belt" so
> mothers could nurse and have both safely buckled at the same time.
>
> Kris
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
>
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>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the
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>
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> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
Mary
From: "Joylyn" <joylyn@...>
<<Yes, but do we blame it on breastfeeding or a stupid woman?>>
Blame what?? I just see the woman as a maroon. <BEG>
Mary B (who in all my years of watching Bugs Bunny doesn't remember that at
all)
<<Yes, but do we blame it on breastfeeding or a stupid woman?>>
Blame what?? I just see the woman as a maroon. <BEG>
Mary B (who in all my years of watching Bugs Bunny doesn't remember that at
all)
Joylyn
Mary wrote:
Joylyn
> From: "Joylyn" <joylyn@...>exactly.
>
>
>
> <<Yes, but do we blame it on breastfeeding or a stupid woman?>>
>
>
> Blame what?? I just see the woman as a maroon. <BEG>
Joylyn
unolist
I wanted to say thank you for all the breastfeeding dialogue, it has
been really helpful to me, if not too disruptive to the list. But i
agree that breastfeeding/child led weaning parallels unschooling in a
way. And all this discussion has given me an appreciation for the
nursing relationship I have had with my younger two, and missed out
on the older one (the one that was sent to school for years).
I can relate to the post about being busy nursing on vacation, we
went to myrtle beach when my youngest was 5 weeks old. The trip was
planned before the conception LOL. I am not a big vacation taker, and
i spent most of the time in the airconditioned suite being with my
baby boy, while everyone else ran around town.
And then there was the boat trip to Johnstown to collect shells,
Ashlyn was not even two, and was scared on the boat. We sat in the
back of the boat trying to keep a blanket from blowing off as I
tandem nursed for the only time in public. I am a very discreet
nurser, and that was a challenge. My sister took delight in taking
advantage and snapping a picture. LOL
My daughter who nursed until three was given a baby bottle of water
on a road trip when she was almost a year old, and she never would
take a pacifier. She would occasionally do the bottle of water. She
wouldn't wean when I was pregnant and completely dried up. SHe nursed
until her brother was a year old, and I tried for months distracting
her away from nursing. She was more "attached" in the sense that she
cried more, was in the sling constantly, even when I was first
pregnant with brother.
Now my 2yo son has never had any artificial nipple, so now my theory
that he is less attached/more independant and will wean sooner
probably will not play out. He was not in the sling that much at all,
very happy and independant, but shy and loves mommy and baby milk. He
has only been able to say Baby Milk for a few weeks, but he talks
about it in his sleep.
So, I am not going to push the weaning. I am going to continue the
don't offer/don't refuse, but man he nurses a lot as long as we are
home. I need to get out more. He also wakes up a lot in the night to
nurse, which I get tired of.
My dh, being more proactive, up and decided to get a tv and hook a
vcr in their room to get them both to sleep in there. I can't say it
is working. And BL(before this list), I was very much against tv's in
bedrooms. So, whatever. They both ended up with me the same night,
and he hit the couch. My almost 4yo sometimes likes to sleep in her
bed, but that night she had bad dreams about mommy and daddy getting
hurt. So screw the TV.
I guess I'll have plenty of time to sleep without kids when they are
growing up too fast, and I will lay awake wondering where the time
went and wishing for just a few more moments of cuddling with my
babies....
Ang
been really helpful to me, if not too disruptive to the list. But i
agree that breastfeeding/child led weaning parallels unschooling in a
way. And all this discussion has given me an appreciation for the
nursing relationship I have had with my younger two, and missed out
on the older one (the one that was sent to school for years).
I can relate to the post about being busy nursing on vacation, we
went to myrtle beach when my youngest was 5 weeks old. The trip was
planned before the conception LOL. I am not a big vacation taker, and
i spent most of the time in the airconditioned suite being with my
baby boy, while everyone else ran around town.
And then there was the boat trip to Johnstown to collect shells,
Ashlyn was not even two, and was scared on the boat. We sat in the
back of the boat trying to keep a blanket from blowing off as I
tandem nursed for the only time in public. I am a very discreet
nurser, and that was a challenge. My sister took delight in taking
advantage and snapping a picture. LOL
My daughter who nursed until three was given a baby bottle of water
on a road trip when she was almost a year old, and she never would
take a pacifier. She would occasionally do the bottle of water. She
wouldn't wean when I was pregnant and completely dried up. SHe nursed
until her brother was a year old, and I tried for months distracting
her away from nursing. She was more "attached" in the sense that she
cried more, was in the sling constantly, even when I was first
pregnant with brother.
Now my 2yo son has never had any artificial nipple, so now my theory
that he is less attached/more independant and will wean sooner
probably will not play out. He was not in the sling that much at all,
very happy and independant, but shy and loves mommy and baby milk. He
has only been able to say Baby Milk for a few weeks, but he talks
about it in his sleep.
So, I am not going to push the weaning. I am going to continue the
don't offer/don't refuse, but man he nurses a lot as long as we are
home. I need to get out more. He also wakes up a lot in the night to
nurse, which I get tired of.
My dh, being more proactive, up and decided to get a tv and hook a
vcr in their room to get them both to sleep in there. I can't say it
is working. And BL(before this list), I was very much against tv's in
bedrooms. So, whatever. They both ended up with me the same night,
and he hit the couch. My almost 4yo sometimes likes to sleep in her
bed, but that night she had bad dreams about mommy and daddy getting
hurt. So screw the TV.
I guess I'll have plenty of time to sleep without kids when they are
growing up too fast, and I will lay awake wondering where the time
went and wishing for just a few more moments of cuddling with my
babies....
Ang
Pamela Sorooshian
On Saturday, June 21, 2003, at 06:21 AM, unolist wrote:
going to get home and wishing they'd call, too.
Enjoy this time, get yourself enough sleep. Find ways to nap and do
other stuff when you can.
-pam
> I guess I'll have plenty of time to sleep without kids when they areYou'll probably spend some time laying awake wondering when they're
> growing up too fast, and I will lay awake wondering where the time
> went and wishing for just a few more moments of cuddling with my
> babies....
going to get home and wishing they'd call, too.
Enjoy this time, get yourself enough sleep. Find ways to nap and do
other stuff when you can.
-pam