either THIS or THAT (problem with logic)
[email protected]
<<
In simpler language, those are NOT the only two choices, and they're not even
two which sensibly divide the range of possibilities.
Sandra
> So either unschooling is only about education and is not a total<<<The either/or statement sets up a false dichotomy. >>>
> lifestyle OR unschooling is going to be different for those with
> special needs children.
In simpler language, those are NOT the only two choices, and they're not even
two which sensibly divide the range of possibilities.
Sandra
rumpleteasermom
Could you expand on that a bit?
Here is what I've gotten out of what I've read in the past here:
You can't unschool unless you relinguish ALL control over your
children's choices including when and how to do housework, sleep watch
TV, etc
Those who have said their children have special needs (like food
allergies, diabetes, mood disorders) say they are unschooling but that
it does not look like the unschoolers in the first statement.
And many here have said that you should put the control withthe child
even in cases like diabetes, because that is the only way to unschool.
I have said that I unschool my daughters and don't care what you want
to call what we do with Wyndham but I consider it unschooling. But it
sure does look a LOT different from what I do with the girls.
So I guess what I'm asking is - - Is unschooling supposed to be the
same for everyone including those with special needs? And if so, how
can that be?
Bridget
Here is what I've gotten out of what I've read in the past here:
You can't unschool unless you relinguish ALL control over your
children's choices including when and how to do housework, sleep watch
TV, etc
Those who have said their children have special needs (like food
allergies, diabetes, mood disorders) say they are unschooling but that
it does not look like the unschoolers in the first statement.
And many here have said that you should put the control withthe child
even in cases like diabetes, because that is the only way to unschool.
I have said that I unschool my daughters and don't care what you want
to call what we do with Wyndham but I consider it unschooling. But it
sure does look a LOT different from what I do with the girls.
So I guess what I'm asking is - - Is unschooling supposed to be the
same for everyone including those with special needs? And if so, how
can that be?
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> <<
> > So either unschooling is only about education and is not a total
> > lifestyle OR unschooling is going to be different for those with
> > special needs children.
>
> <<<The either/or statement sets up a false dichotomy. >>>
>
> In simpler language, those are NOT the only two choices, and they're
not even
> two which sensibly divide the range of possibilities.
>
> Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/26/2002 7:49:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rumpleteasermom@... writes:
unschooling means giving up SCHOOLISH stuff - stuff like textbooks, tests,
grades, assignments - and replacing those by seeing and appreciating and
facilitating the learning that comes by serendipity or by living in an
enriched environment or by supporting kids' interests.
In addition to that I've seen conversations about other things - such as
housework and sleep and tv - in which people have stated their opinions about
coercing or limiting or controlling in those areas as well. And people have
said that, to them, it makes sense that unschoolers would be less controlling
in those areas and I've seen posts (and written posts) pointing out the
benefits (imo, obviously) of BEING less controlling.
But I never saw ANYBODY say that you can't unschool without relinquishing all
control over children's choices. I think you've set up a straw man with this
statement. I do know that there are a few people who do believe in
relinquishing all "control." That would be the "Taking Children Seriously"
noncoercive parenting crowd. But many people unschool - do not "do school" in
any way, shape, or form - while still requiring chores, bedtimes, and/or
limiting television. They probably have all kinds of other ways they make
choices FOR their kids too. My kids must wear seat belts in the car. My kids
are not allowed to eat in the bedrooms. My kids have chores to do on a
regular basis. My kids have to share the computer with me <G>. They aren't
ordered around harshly - they help make the decisions, but there are times
that I have the final say. When we're running to catch an airplane and they
want to play just one more game on the PlayStation, I might say, "No, you
have to turn it off now we have to leave now." I might tell them, "Please
have the table cleared off before you leave today." None of this has
anything to do with our unschooling - it is just our parenting and the way
our family has evolved.
Unschoolers are being respectful and thoughtful and considerate of how
children really learn best and so they are LIKELY to be respectful and
thoughtful and considerate of their children in general and to TRUST their
kids much more than other parents do. So they are likely to be less
controlling and less limiting. I, personally, think they are less likely to
feel the NEED to be those things because the kids are not being shaped by
school.
of their diabetes to the child, as they get older. It would also be stupid to
make a 2 yo be fully in charge. Neither has anything to do with unschooling.
different than my youngest. So saying it is different isn't telling us
anything.
Do you give him assignments on material you've decided to teach him and grade
his work and test him on the stuff you've decided to teach him whether he
wanted to learn it or not? If so, it certainly isn't unschooling. If not,
then it probably is.
--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom@... writes:
> Could you expand on that a bit?What I've read here, repeatedly and I've written it myself - is that
> Here is what I've gotten out of what I've read in the past here:
> You can't unschool unless you relinguish ALL control over your
> children's choices including when and how to do housework, sleep watch
> TV, etc
unschooling means giving up SCHOOLISH stuff - stuff like textbooks, tests,
grades, assignments - and replacing those by seeing and appreciating and
facilitating the learning that comes by serendipity or by living in an
enriched environment or by supporting kids' interests.
In addition to that I've seen conversations about other things - such as
housework and sleep and tv - in which people have stated their opinions about
coercing or limiting or controlling in those areas as well. And people have
said that, to them, it makes sense that unschoolers would be less controlling
in those areas and I've seen posts (and written posts) pointing out the
benefits (imo, obviously) of BEING less controlling.
But I never saw ANYBODY say that you can't unschool without relinquishing all
control over children's choices. I think you've set up a straw man with this
statement. I do know that there are a few people who do believe in
relinquishing all "control." That would be the "Taking Children Seriously"
noncoercive parenting crowd. But many people unschool - do not "do school" in
any way, shape, or form - while still requiring chores, bedtimes, and/or
limiting television. They probably have all kinds of other ways they make
choices FOR their kids too. My kids must wear seat belts in the car. My kids
are not allowed to eat in the bedrooms. My kids have chores to do on a
regular basis. My kids have to share the computer with me <G>. They aren't
ordered around harshly - they help make the decisions, but there are times
that I have the final say. When we're running to catch an airplane and they
want to play just one more game on the PlayStation, I might say, "No, you
have to turn it off now we have to leave now." I might tell them, "Please
have the table cleared off before you leave today." None of this has
anything to do with our unschooling - it is just our parenting and the way
our family has evolved.
Unschoolers are being respectful and thoughtful and considerate of how
children really learn best and so they are LIKELY to be respectful and
thoughtful and considerate of their children in general and to TRUST their
kids much more than other parents do. So they are likely to be less
controlling and less limiting. I, personally, think they are less likely to
feel the NEED to be those things because the kids are not being shaped by
school.
> Those who have said their children have special needs (like foodI haven't seen anybody say that. It would be stupid NOT to hand over control
> allergies, diabetes, mood disorders) say they are unschooling but that
> it does not look like the unschoolers in the first statement.
> And many here have said that you should put the control withthe child
> even in cases like diabetes, because that is the only way to unschool.
>
of their diabetes to the child, as they get older. It would also be stupid to
make a 2 yo be fully in charge. Neither has anything to do with unschooling.
> I have said that I unschool my daughters and don't care what you wantWhat I do with my oldest looks really different than my middle looks really
> to call what we do with Wyndham but I consider it unschooling. But it
> sure does look a LOT different from what I do with the girls.
>
different than my youngest. So saying it is different isn't telling us
anything.
> So I guess what I'm asking is - - Is unschooling supposed to be theThere is no "supposed to." It'll be different for every parent/kid/time.
> same for everyone including those with special needs? And if so, how
> can that be?
Do you give him assignments on material you've decided to teach him and grade
his work and test him on the stuff you've decided to teach him whether he
wanted to learn it or not? If so, it certainly isn't unschooling. If not,
then it probably is.
--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 4/26/02 10:47 AM, rumpleteasermom at rumpleteasermom@... wrote:
What's been implied is that once you recognize that children can be trusted
to learn the "academic" things then it's hard not to question why kids can't
learn the rest of the things they'll need in life by living life.
If someone says "I need to do it this way," the natural question many
unschoolers who don't separate unschooling from life is "Why?"
For *some* people unschooling and all aspects of life are inextricable.
I think allowing children the freedom to decide what is right for them is
being confused with learning by trial and error. I wouldn't let my daughter
step off a cliff to learn that cliffs are dangerous. But if she got cranky
after playing Nintendo, I'd help her become more aware of her feelings and
how they might relate to other things (eating, playing Nintendo, sitting
still for several hours, and so forth). I'd help her understand herself
rather than saying letting her behavior dictate what I allowed her to do.
I believe the advice has been to help parents to stop seeing problems that
don't exist, *not* to tell parents to ignore problems that do exist.
in unschooling. How each unschooling child lives his or her life and how the
parents interact with him will be different because children are different.
living life. Part of living life for kids is having parents who care about
them and want to help them achieve what they're trying to achieve. Just as
some 2 yos will need help climbing the stairs and others won't, some people
will need help recognizing what their body's needs are. That doesn't mean
taking the control away from them. It means helping them gain their own
control.
Joyce
> Here is what I've gotten out of what I've read in the past here:Nope. Never said.
> You can't unschool unless you relinguish ALL control over your
> children's choices including when and how to do housework, sleep watch
> TV, etc
What's been implied is that once you recognize that children can be trusted
to learn the "academic" things then it's hard not to question why kids can't
learn the rest of the things they'll need in life by living life.
If someone says "I need to do it this way," the natural question many
unschoolers who don't separate unschooling from life is "Why?"
> And many here have said that you should put the control withthe childNope, it was never said.
> even in cases like diabetes, because that is the only way to unschool.
For *some* people unschooling and all aspects of life are inextricable.
I think allowing children the freedom to decide what is right for them is
being confused with learning by trial and error. I wouldn't let my daughter
step off a cliff to learn that cliffs are dangerous. But if she got cranky
after playing Nintendo, I'd help her become more aware of her feelings and
how they might relate to other things (eating, playing Nintendo, sitting
still for several hours, and so forth). I'd help her understand herself
rather than saying letting her behavior dictate what I allowed her to do.
I believe the advice has been to help parents to stop seeing problems that
don't exist, *not* to tell parents to ignore problems that do exist.
> But itThat what you do with your girls looks similar is coincidental not inherent
> sure does look a LOT different from what I do with the girls.
in unschooling. How each unschooling child lives his or her life and how the
parents interact with him will be different because children are different.
> Is unschooling supposed to be theThe philosophy is still the same: people will learn what they need from
> same for everyone including those with special needs? And if so, how
> can that be?
living life. Part of living life for kids is having parents who care about
them and want to help them achieve what they're trying to achieve. Just as
some 2 yos will need help climbing the stairs and others won't, some people
will need help recognizing what their body's needs are. That doesn't mean
taking the control away from them. It means helping them gain their own
control.
Joyce
zenmomma *
>>So I guess what I'm asking is - - Is unschooling supposed to be thesame for everyone including those with special needs? And if so, how
can that be?>>
Since no two lives can be *exactly* the same, I don't think any two
unschooling lives can be *exactly* the same. There will always be
differences in how any one person chooses to go about living and learning.
But I think it's the living and learning that remains the unschooling
constant.
For my two children, the differences come out in things like personality,
energy, interests and also some "special needs". The constant of
unschooling, though, is that they are still each free to pursue their own
interests in their own way. The constant of unschooling is in *my*
perception of their ability to learn. I'm absolutely certain that they will
do it, and that they do NOT need a schoolish scope and sequence guideline to
follow.
Some of the parenting differences that come up also have to do with my kids'
differences. Conor tends toward depression. So if I see that his interests
are leading him somewhere dark and potentially dangerous to his psyche, I'll
step in and try to suggest some equally appealing lighter alternatives.
That's just a part of caring and helping out someone you love. I hope that
my friends and family will do the same for me. :o)
For Casey, who tends towards the excitable end of things, I might help her
to find some calming things to do when I see that she's getting overwhelmed.
I might offer to read a story or make a craft. That's also just parenting to
help her learn to self-regulate.
A special-needs child who absolutely *needs* structure and routine (autism
comes to mind) shouldn't be denied those things. In fact, NO child should be
denied what they need. I think the unschooling constant though, is that we,
as parents, have come to understand that the routines and structures of
school are artificial and not really part of anyone's natural routine.
Therefore, we can help our own children find their structure, routine and
learning without using schoolish methods as the model.
Life is good.
~Mary
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Elizabeth Hill
**>>So I guess what I'm asking is - - Is unschooling supposed to be the
same for everyone including those with special needs? And if so, how
can that be?>>
Since no two lives can be *exactly* the same, I don't think any two
unschooling lives can be *exactly* the same. There will always be
differences in how any one person chooses to go about living and
learning.
But I think it's the living and learning that remains the unschooling
constant.**
(Uh-oh.... I feel a metaphor coming on. And it's a lame one...)
I think unschooling has a single "root", which is its philosophy, but it
has many leaves and flowers, which are its practice in people's
different lives.
Blunt, get-your-attention posts tend to be directed at getting to the
root of the unschooling philosophy. Many of us on this list don't
believe unschooling will work well, unless the parent "gets" the key
ideas.
No single post can tell a new questioner exactly how to unschooler one
or all of her children. What each child persues, when, how and with
whom is totally individual and unpredictable. People offer suggestions,
which come both from their lives and their philosophical beliefs. This
advice may be accepted or discarded. It certainly should be filtered,
adapted and customized, in my opinion. However, if the philosophy
doesn't fit, then it's really unlikely that the advice on this list
would ever fit. In that case, I would think finding a different list
would be more satisfactory.
Betsy
same for everyone including those with special needs? And if so, how
can that be?>>
Since no two lives can be *exactly* the same, I don't think any two
unschooling lives can be *exactly* the same. There will always be
differences in how any one person chooses to go about living and
learning.
But I think it's the living and learning that remains the unschooling
constant.**
(Uh-oh.... I feel a metaphor coming on. And it's a lame one...)
I think unschooling has a single "root", which is its philosophy, but it
has many leaves and flowers, which are its practice in people's
different lives.
Blunt, get-your-attention posts tend to be directed at getting to the
root of the unschooling philosophy. Many of us on this list don't
believe unschooling will work well, unless the parent "gets" the key
ideas.
No single post can tell a new questioner exactly how to unschooler one
or all of her children. What each child persues, when, how and with
whom is totally individual and unpredictable. People offer suggestions,
which come both from their lives and their philosophical beliefs. This
advice may be accepted or discarded. It certainly should be filtered,
adapted and customized, in my opinion. However, if the philosophy
doesn't fit, then it's really unlikely that the advice on this list
would ever fit. In that case, I would think finding a different list
would be more satisfactory.
Betsy
Camille Bauer
You can't unschool unless you relinguish ALL control over your
children's choices including when and how to do housework, sleep watch
TV, etc>>>
I wouldn't say you can't unschool. But I do question how one could say they "trust" children to learn and be in charge of education, when they can't even be in charge of watching Road Runner.
CamilleGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
children's choices including when and how to do housework, sleep watch
TV, etc>>>
I wouldn't say you can't unschool. But I do question how one could say they "trust" children to learn and be in charge of education, when they can't even be in charge of watching Road Runner.
CamilleGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
Nope, no assignments, no grades and he chooses the material. The only
two things that are mandatory for Wyndham with my mom are brushing his
teeth and taking a walk with her. Both of those are health issues.
Bridget
two things that are mandatory for Wyndham with my mom are brushing his
teeth and taking a walk with her. Both of those are health issues.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., PSoroosh@a... wrote:
> > So I guess what I'm asking is - - Is unschooling supposed to be
the
> > same for everyone including those with special needs? And if so,
how
> > can that be?
>
> There is no "supposed to." It'll be different for every
parent/kid/time.
>
> Do you give him assignments on material you've decided to teach him
and grade
> his work and test him on the stuff you've decided to teach him
whether he
> wanted to learn it or not? If so, it certainly isn't unschooling. If
not,
> then it probably is.
>
> --pamS
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Fetteroll <fetteroll@e...> wrote:
be for the child to have complete control over his entire life as soon
as possible And not be unhappy along the way.
The problem is that not all kids can reach that point in the same way
or at the same time. For example, I would have been perfectly happy
letting Rachel drive at 14 and she wanted to at that point.
Unfortunately our state law is 16. Rachel at 14 was strong
enough and independent enough that had life allowed, she could
have moved out and been completely on her own. Jenni, on the other
hand is nearly 15 now and has no desire to drive and is not ready to
be on her own. I want her learn how to drive just in case and I've
explained that to her. What she does in six more months is up to her.
But that isn't really a good example of what I mean. Maybe this is
better, Jenni is allergic to milk. I don't think I've mentioned her
diet to her since she was 5. Once she understood how milk made her
feel she took control of it. She accepted the responsibility if she
cheated and felt bad. Rachel, whose allergy is corn, was also given
complete control very early. But she was not as comfortable with it.
When she started taking out her bad reactions on the rest of the
family, she lost the priviledge to choose for a while. We
periodically let go several times and once she learned not to take it
out on us, she kept the control all to herself. Although, I can't
count how many times I've asked her how much corn she had when she has
a headache - not nagging, just a reminder to think about it.
Eventually, she will either grow out of the allergy or come to terms
with it and stop binging, I hope.
I guess I could have let her keep eating it when she was 9 and just
let her have daily temper tantrums and rages and headaches. But that
would have been damaging to the entire family.
Bridget
> The philosophy is still the same: people will learn what they needfrom
> living life. Part of living life for kids is having parents who careabout
> them and want to help them achieve what they're trying to achieve.Just as
> some 2 yos will need help climbing the stairs and others won't, somepeople
> will need help recognizing what their body's needs are. That doesn'tmean
> taking the control away from them. It means helping them gain theirown
> control.Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. The goal should
>
> Joyce
be for the child to have complete control over his entire life as soon
as possible And not be unhappy along the way.
The problem is that not all kids can reach that point in the same way
or at the same time. For example, I would have been perfectly happy
letting Rachel drive at 14 and she wanted to at that point.
Unfortunately our state law is 16. Rachel at 14 was strong
enough and independent enough that had life allowed, she could
have moved out and been completely on her own. Jenni, on the other
hand is nearly 15 now and has no desire to drive and is not ready to
be on her own. I want her learn how to drive just in case and I've
explained that to her. What she does in six more months is up to her.
But that isn't really a good example of what I mean. Maybe this is
better, Jenni is allergic to milk. I don't think I've mentioned her
diet to her since she was 5. Once she understood how milk made her
feel she took control of it. She accepted the responsibility if she
cheated and felt bad. Rachel, whose allergy is corn, was also given
complete control very early. But she was not as comfortable with it.
When she started taking out her bad reactions on the rest of the
family, she lost the priviledge to choose for a while. We
periodically let go several times and once she learned not to take it
out on us, she kept the control all to herself. Although, I can't
count how many times I've asked her how much corn she had when she has
a headache - not nagging, just a reminder to think about it.
Eventually, she will either grow out of the allergy or come to terms
with it and stop binging, I hope.
I guess I could have let her keep eating it when she was 9 and just
let her have daily temper tantrums and rages and headaches. But that
would have been damaging to the entire family.
Bridget
Fetteroll
on 4/27/02 5:06 AM, rumpleteasermom at rumpleteasermom@... wrote:
to make the right choice or take her right to choose away from her until she
could make the right choice.
How about asking her during or after a tantrum if she had corn? How about
asking her to have her tantrum elsewhere because it isn't fair for the whole
family to suffer for the choices she makes?
Others will probably have other ideas since I haven't had to stretch my
brain much in that area but it's a starting point.
But it's difficult to talk about a past problem. It's a whole lot more
meaningful to talk about a current problem since we can talk about what is
working and not working, not remembrances of what worked and didn't.
Joyce
> When she started taking out her bad reactions on the rest of theand
> family, she lost the priviledge to choose for a while.
> I guess I could have let her keep eating it when she was 9 and justWhat you seem to be saying with this is that you had two choices: allow her
> let her have daily temper tantrums and rages and headaches.
to make the right choice or take her right to choose away from her until she
could make the right choice.
How about asking her during or after a tantrum if she had corn? How about
asking her to have her tantrum elsewhere because it isn't fair for the whole
family to suffer for the choices she makes?
Others will probably have other ideas since I haven't had to stretch my
brain much in that area but it's a starting point.
But it's difficult to talk about a past problem. It's a whole lot more
meaningful to talk about a current problem since we can talk about what is
working and not working, not remembrances of what worked and didn't.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/27/02 2:46:43 AM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:
<< Nope, no assignments, no grades and he chooses the material. The only
two things that are mandatory for Wyndham with my mom are brushing his
teeth and taking a walk with her. Both of those are health issues. >>
Earlier you said that your mom tells you what books you need to get for him.
Sandra
<< Nope, no assignments, no grades and he chooses the material. The only
two things that are mandatory for Wyndham with my mom are brushing his
teeth and taking a walk with her. Both of those are health issues. >>
Earlier you said that your mom tells you what books you need to get for him.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/27/2002 10:23:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
asking for.
Kate Davis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> In a message dated 4/27/02 2:46:43 AM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:I was assuming that she meant that her mother told her what books he was
>
> << Nope, no assignments, no grades and he chooses the material. The only
> two things that are mandatory for Wyndham with my mom are brushing his
> teeth and taking a walk with her. Both of those are health issues. >>
>
> Earlier you said that your mom tells you what books you need to get for
> him.
>
> Sandra
>
asking for.
Kate Davis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/27/2002 1:46:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rumpleteasermom@... writes:
choose some sort of material?
Going to someone's house to "do school" does sound like the opposite of
unschooling, even if he is getting a lot of choice. My kids' school allowed
HUGE choice - they got to decide what they read, what they wrote, which
learning centers they would visit throughout the day. They had no tests or
grades. But it was still school. They went at a certain time and came home at
a certain time and there was a teacher and there was the expectation that
that was where they were doing their academic learning.
When my kids go hang out with Grandma at her house, we don't call it "doing
school." If there isn't "school" happening, why do you call it that? Seems
sort of an odd choice of words.
As part of figuring out what aspects of school are tossed out by unschoolers,
another one might be that learning occurs on schedule or in certain places at
certain times.
--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom@... writes:
> Nope, no assignments, no grades and he chooses the material.So - can he choose to not do anything that involves "material?" Or he has to
choose some sort of material?
Going to someone's house to "do school" does sound like the opposite of
unschooling, even if he is getting a lot of choice. My kids' school allowed
HUGE choice - they got to decide what they read, what they wrote, which
learning centers they would visit throughout the day. They had no tests or
grades. But it was still school. They went at a certain time and came home at
a certain time and there was a teacher and there was the expectation that
that was where they were doing their academic learning.
When my kids go hang out with Grandma at her house, we don't call it "doing
school." If there isn't "school" happening, why do you call it that? Seems
sort of an odd choice of words.
As part of figuring out what aspects of school are tossed out by unschoolers,
another one might be that learning occurs on schedule or in certain places at
certain times.
--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
The only thing my mom has told me about books for him, is that my dh
and I have to start doing some of the reading with him because she is
tired of learning about trains and trucks. Then after a bit of
discussion, we decided it would be best all around if dh did the bulk
of the reading with him, because dh can answer his questions. Mom and
I often can't and he is not yet patient enough to wait for us to find
them.
But I have said repeatedly that Wyndham chooses his own books. In
fact, in part of the reading thread earlier, I said it was difficult
for me to think of his taste in terms of books like I do with the
girls because HIS choice of books is so different from mine and so
much like my dh's taste.
Bridget
>for him.
> Earlier you said that your mom tells you what books you need to get
>No I didn't.
> Sandra
The only thing my mom has told me about books for him, is that my dh
and I have to start doing some of the reading with him because she is
tired of learning about trains and trucks. Then after a bit of
discussion, we decided it would be best all around if dh did the bulk
of the reading with him, because dh can answer his questions. Mom and
I often can't and he is not yet patient enough to wait for us to find
them.
But I have said repeatedly that Wyndham chooses his own books. In
fact, in part of the reading thread earlier, I said it was difficult
for me to think of his taste in terms of books like I do with the
girls because HIS choice of books is so different from mine and so
much like my dh's taste.
Bridget
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Fetteroll <fetteroll@e...> wrote:
get it under control herself or we would take control. She didn't get
control after what we all agreed was a reasonable amount of time, so
we took control. And the control rocked back and forth between us
sevearl times until she could get it for herself.
Oh yes, asking her to take her tantrum elsewhere was a sure way of
lengthening it's duration and increasing it's severity. BTDT.
occassionally but the difference is, now she understands it and just
talking aboutit is all it takes to get her back on track.
And my experience with her has a lot of impact on how I handle Wyndham
allergies. They are a lot alike. Right now, Wyndham is at the point
where he has no self-control about food. He is also working through
lots of other problems. Telling him he has to monitor his own food
would be cruel right now. That does not mean I am doing nothing about
the problem except monitoring his food. We talk about it and the
effects it has a lot.
And yes, when I was struggling to get my food sensitivities under
control, my dh DID take things away from me and I'm glad he did. He
helped me until I could get my own balance back and that is exactly
what I'm doing with my children.
Bridget
>allow her
> What you seem to be saying with this is that you had two choices:
> to make the right choice or take her right to choose away from heruntil she
> could make the right choice.about
>
> How about asking her during or after a tantrum if she had corn? How
> asking her to have her tantrum elsewhere because it isn't fair forthe whole
> family to suffer for the choices she makes?I never said we didn't talk about it. We did. We also told her to
get it under control herself or we would take control. She didn't get
control after what we all agreed was a reasonable amount of time, so
we took control. And the control rocked back and forth between us
sevearl times until she could get it for herself.
Oh yes, asking her to take her tantrum elsewhere was a sure way of
lengthening it's duration and increasing it's severity. BTDT.
>my
> Others will probably have other ideas since I haven't had to stretch
> brain much in that area but it's a starting point.more
>
> But it's difficult to talk about a past problem. It's a whole lot
> meaningful to talk about a current problem since we can talk aboutwhat is
> working and not working, not remembrances of what worked and didn't.It's not a past problem. It's an ongoing one. She still looses it
>
> Joyce
occassionally but the difference is, now she understands it and just
talking aboutit is all it takes to get her back on track.
And my experience with her has a lot of impact on how I handle Wyndham
allergies. They are a lot alike. Right now, Wyndham is at the point
where he has no self-control about food. He is also working through
lots of other problems. Telling him he has to monitor his own food
would be cruel right now. That does not mean I am doing nothing about
the problem except monitoring his food. We talk about it and the
effects it has a lot.
And yes, when I was struggling to get my food sensitivities under
control, my dh DID take things away from me and I'm glad he did. He
helped me until I could get my own balance back and that is exactly
what I'm doing with my children.
Bridget
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., PSoroosh@a... wrote:
OCD and anxiety disorder. He created this schedule himself. His whole
day is mapped out around when he goes to grandma's and when he watches
TV. And woe to us when we disrupt that schedule. Even when it is for
fun things like field trips and he can choose to go or not, it throws
him off balance enough that he gets crabby and irritable.
So yes, the learning goes on all the time. But for this child, the
schedule is very important right now.
Bridget
>"doing
> When my kids go hang out with Grandma at her house, we don't call it
> school." If there isn't "school" happening, why do you call it that?Seems
> sort of an odd choice of words.Because he does.
>unschoolers,
> As part of figuring out what aspects of school are tossed out by
> another one might be that learning occurs on schedule or in certainplaces at
> certain times.You have to remember that this is the child with lots of problems like
>
OCD and anxiety disorder. He created this schedule himself. His whole
day is mapped out around when he goes to grandma's and when he watches
TV. And woe to us when we disrupt that schedule. Even when it is for
fun things like field trips and he can choose to go or not, it throws
him off balance enough that he gets crabby and irritable.
So yes, the learning goes on all the time. But for this child, the
schedule is very important right now.
Bridget
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/28/2002 6:58:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rumpleteasermom@... writes:
not answer, but the next obvious question is "If there isn't anything
school-like happening, why does he call it school?"
--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom@... writes:
> > When my kids go hang out with Grandma at her house, we don't call itOkay - I feel like I'm dragging this out of you, and of course you can just
> "doing
> > school." If there isn't "school" happening, why do you call it that?
> Seems
> > sort of an odd choice of words.
>
> Because he does.
not answer, but the next obvious question is "If there isn't anything
school-like happening, why does he call it school?"
--pamS
Some of what is said here may challenge you, shock you, disturb you, or seem
harsh. But remember that people are offering it to be helpful and what feels
uncomfortable to you might be just what someone else needed to hear.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]