[Unschooling-dotcom] Vampires WAS Paperback boogies
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/25/2002 10:12:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rumpleteasermom@... writes:
writer, a ballerina, or a vampire.
Instead, I grew up to be an attorney (which, in some ways, is a combination
of all three!)
In any event, the subject of vampires and censorship (WAS that the subject)
inspired me to ask this question, as it is one that I grapple with daily:
For those of you who have deeply-held religious or philosophical beliefs, how
do you approach a situation in which your child expresses a desire to engage
in an activity that runs counter to those beliefs?
For example, Harry Potter. I know that this book caused a great hubbub in
one portion of the Christian population. (I will refrain, for purposes of
this question, from giving my personal opinion about that issue). However,
the question is, for those unschooling parents among us who would "frown" on
Harry Potter for religious reasons, how would you approach a situation in
which your son or daughter wanted to read that series?
Kate Davis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom@... writes:
> Does that mean Jenni is going to be a vampire?When I was four, I told my mother that when I grew up, I wanted to be a
>
writer, a ballerina, or a vampire.
Instead, I grew up to be an attorney (which, in some ways, is a combination
of all three!)
In any event, the subject of vampires and censorship (WAS that the subject)
inspired me to ask this question, as it is one that I grapple with daily:
For those of you who have deeply-held religious or philosophical beliefs, how
do you approach a situation in which your child expresses a desire to engage
in an activity that runs counter to those beliefs?
For example, Harry Potter. I know that this book caused a great hubbub in
one portion of the Christian population. (I will refrain, for purposes of
this question, from giving my personal opinion about that issue). However,
the question is, for those unschooling parents among us who would "frown" on
Harry Potter for religious reasons, how would you approach a situation in
which your son or daughter wanted to read that series?
Kate Davis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Camille Bauer
For those of you who have deeply-held religious or philosophical beliefs, how
do you approach a situation in which your child expresses a desire to engage
in an activity that runs counter to those beliefs?>>>
Great question, and one I think we all could examine :)
My beliefs are MY beliefs. My children & anyone else for that matter has the right to believe whatever they want. If they choose to read Harry Potter, great! If it goes against what I want, I don't have to read it. (Although I do, I love Harry Potter!)
CamilleGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
do you approach a situation in which your child expresses a desire to engage
in an activity that runs counter to those beliefs?>>>
Great question, and one I think we all could examine :)
My beliefs are MY beliefs. My children & anyone else for that matter has the right to believe whatever they want. If they choose to read Harry Potter, great! If it goes against what I want, I don't have to read it. (Although I do, I love Harry Potter!)
CamilleGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 4/25/02 1:58 PM, Katedavislawfirm@... at Katedavislawfirm@...
wrote:
inflame -- is not wanting kids to do something for religious reasons
different from not wanting them to do something for moral or health reasons?
Is a Christian not allowing her children to read Harry Potter different than
a vegetarian not allowing her children to eat meat?
Perhaps one difference is that the religious convictions are based on, and
not meaning this disrespectfully, thought exercises rather than the physical
world. For instance we can want our kids not to jump off cliffs because we
know with a great deal of certainty what will happen. But if we want our
kids not to read Harry Potter, it's based on a series of if this is true
(the Bible is unerring, God wants us to do this, or whatever) then this is
true so if that is true, then this must be true. (There's undoubtedly a word
for the difference between those two.)
The Bible doesn't come right out and say Thou shalt not read Harry Potter
;-) so the decision that it's wrong to do so is based on a series of logic
exercises that can't be tested empirically (I think that's the wor0) only
tested to see if they are logically consistent (and there's a word for that
too.)
I think part of the problem -- of trying to come to such a conclusion -- is
the feeling that if the Bible is unerring that everyone who *correctly*
interprets the Bible will come up with the exact same answer. So, since many
people come to a variety of conclusions, some must be right and some must be
wrong. You can't really use the Bible to come to your *own* conclusion. You
can only use it to come to the *right* conclusion. So, how do you know when
the conclusion you've come to is the "right" one? Can you tell by just
looking in your heart or do you need to ask others and compare answers and
hear their reasoning?
I think the big questions like whether it's right to kill someone or whether
loving God is a good thing or not are things that can be answered by looking
in your heart. Why should whether reading Harry Potter is right or wrong be
any different? I think the big difference the big answers are real and the
Harry Potter answer is based on going through contortions to extract an
answer from the Bible. Is God really that convoluted?
Joyce
wrote:
> For example, Harry Potter. I know that this book caused a great hubbub inObjectively speaking -- and this is a question to contemplate rather than
> one portion of the Christian population. (I will refrain, for purposes of
> this question, from giving my personal opinion about that issue). However,
> the question is, for those unschooling parents among us who would "frown" on
> Harry Potter for religious reasons, how would you approach a situation in
> which your son or daughter wanted to read that series?
inflame -- is not wanting kids to do something for religious reasons
different from not wanting them to do something for moral or health reasons?
Is a Christian not allowing her children to read Harry Potter different than
a vegetarian not allowing her children to eat meat?
Perhaps one difference is that the religious convictions are based on, and
not meaning this disrespectfully, thought exercises rather than the physical
world. For instance we can want our kids not to jump off cliffs because we
know with a great deal of certainty what will happen. But if we want our
kids not to read Harry Potter, it's based on a series of if this is true
(the Bible is unerring, God wants us to do this, or whatever) then this is
true so if that is true, then this must be true. (There's undoubtedly a word
for the difference between those two.)
The Bible doesn't come right out and say Thou shalt not read Harry Potter
;-) so the decision that it's wrong to do so is based on a series of logic
exercises that can't be tested empirically (I think that's the wor0) only
tested to see if they are logically consistent (and there's a word for that
too.)
I think part of the problem -- of trying to come to such a conclusion -- is
the feeling that if the Bible is unerring that everyone who *correctly*
interprets the Bible will come up with the exact same answer. So, since many
people come to a variety of conclusions, some must be right and some must be
wrong. You can't really use the Bible to come to your *own* conclusion. You
can only use it to come to the *right* conclusion. So, how do you know when
the conclusion you've come to is the "right" one? Can you tell by just
looking in your heart or do you need to ask others and compare answers and
hear their reasoning?
I think the big questions like whether it's right to kill someone or whether
loving God is a good thing or not are things that can be answered by looking
in your heart. Why should whether reading Harry Potter is right or wrong be
any different? I think the big difference the big answers are real and the
Harry Potter answer is based on going through contortions to extract an
answer from the Bible. Is God really that convoluted?
Joyce
Alan & Brenda Leonard
Joyce,
Please explain this more...I'm confused. I read it to my husband, and now
I've had a great lecture from him (my resident philosopher), but I'm not
sure what you are trying to say! I feel like there are more questions here
than conclusions. Is that the point? I *am* interested, just lost!
brenda
on 4/25/02 8:30 PM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
Please explain this more...I'm confused. I read it to my husband, and now
I've had a great lecture from him (my resident philosopher), but I'm not
sure what you are trying to say! I feel like there are more questions here
than conclusions. Is that the point? I *am* interested, just lost!
brenda
on 4/25/02 8:30 PM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
> Objectively speaking -- and this is a question to contemplate rather than
> inflame -- is not wanting kids to do something for religious reasons
> different from not wanting them to do something for moral or health reasons?
>
> Is a Christian not allowing her children to read Harry Potter different than
> a vegetarian not allowing her children to eat meat?
>
> Perhaps one difference is that the religious convictions are based on, and
> not meaning this disrespectfully, thought exercises rather than the physical
> world. For instance we can want our kids not to jump off cliffs because we
> know with a great deal of certainty what will happen. But if we want our
> kids not to read Harry Potter, it's based on a series of if this is true
> (the Bible is unerring, God wants us to do this, or whatever) then this is
> true so if that is true, then this must be true. (There's undoubtedly a word
> for the difference between those two.)
>
> The Bible doesn't come right out and say Thou shalt not read Harry Potter
> ;-) so the decision that it's wrong to do so is based on a series of logic
> exercises that can't be tested empirically (I think that's the wor0) only
> tested to see if they are logically consistent (and there's a word for that
> too.)
>
> I think part of the problem -- of trying to come to such a conclusion -- is
> the feeling that if the Bible is unerring that everyone who *correctly*
> interprets the Bible will come up with the exact same answer. So, since many
> people come to a variety of conclusions, some must be right and some must be
> wrong. You can't really use the Bible to come to your *own* conclusion. You
> can only use it to come to the *right* conclusion. So, how do you know when
> the conclusion you've come to is the "right" one? Can you tell by just
> looking in your heart or do you need to ask others and compare answers and
> hear their reasoning?
>
> I think the big questions like whether it's right to kill someone or whether
> loving God is a good thing or not are things that can be answered by looking
> in your heart. Why should whether reading Harry Potter is right or wrong be
> any different? I think the big difference the big answers are real and the
> Harry Potter answer is based on going through contortions to extract an
> answer from the Bible. Is God really that convoluted?
>
> Joyce
>
Fetteroll
Is anyone else experiencing email with the subject stripped off? Even couple
I know I changed the subject of have shown up with no subject. I'm wondering
if it's my email program or service provider or if it's Yahoo that's doing
this.
If it's just me and mine are going out without subjects, I apologize, but
apparently it's out of my control!
Joyce
I know I changed the subject of have shown up with no subject. I'm wondering
if it's my email program or service provider or if it's Yahoo that's doing
this.
If it's just me and mine are going out without subjects, I apologize, but
apparently it's out of my control!
Joyce
Fetteroll
on 4/25/02 11:31 PM, Alan & Brenda Leonard at abtleo@... wrote:
mindset to answer from.
How do you decide what is morally right and what is morally wrong?
Do you love God because it's morally right or because that's what God wants?
If you say both, is there ever a time when they aren't the same? Are there
times when what is morally right is not what God wants? Are some things
right without needing to be morally right?
I guess I'm asking for a Venn diagram ;-) Is what is morally right entirely
contained in what God wants? And is what God wants a larger set of things
that are neutral in the morally right/wrong category? Or is something
morally right *because* God wants it? Are there times when what God wants is
not what is morally right? (It could be morally neutral.)
(I think I'm answering my own questions just by asking them but I'll go
ahead and ask them anyway :-)
Is there a smaller set of Universal Rights that anyone can conclude without
access to Christianity? Eg, it's hard to conclude that it is right to accept
Jesus Christ as personal savior without access to Christianity, but many
people over time have concluded that killing and stealing and lying are
morally wrong.
Is the purpose (or one purpose) of the Bible to tell you what is right and
wrong or to help you decide what is right and wrong? The difference being
that what is morally right and wrong can't be determined from deep thought
and you must be told or can it be determined and the Bible just helps
someone clarify their thinking.
Do you believe the Bible is infallible?
(Are there non-Bible-literalists who ban Harry Potter for religious
reasons?)
Please feel free to expand on your answers if the questions are missing the
mark. Like I'm asking if a rock is a plant or an animal ;-)
Joyce
> Please explain this more...I'm confused. I read it to my husband, and nowI think maybe I need to ask some questions first to figure out the right
> I've had a great lecture from him (my resident philosopher), but I'm not
> sure what you are trying to say! I feel like there are more questions here
> than conclusions. Is that the point? I *am* interested, just lost!
mindset to answer from.
How do you decide what is morally right and what is morally wrong?
Do you love God because it's morally right or because that's what God wants?
If you say both, is there ever a time when they aren't the same? Are there
times when what is morally right is not what God wants? Are some things
right without needing to be morally right?
I guess I'm asking for a Venn diagram ;-) Is what is morally right entirely
contained in what God wants? And is what God wants a larger set of things
that are neutral in the morally right/wrong category? Or is something
morally right *because* God wants it? Are there times when what God wants is
not what is morally right? (It could be morally neutral.)
(I think I'm answering my own questions just by asking them but I'll go
ahead and ask them anyway :-)
Is there a smaller set of Universal Rights that anyone can conclude without
access to Christianity? Eg, it's hard to conclude that it is right to accept
Jesus Christ as personal savior without access to Christianity, but many
people over time have concluded that killing and stealing and lying are
morally wrong.
Is the purpose (or one purpose) of the Bible to tell you what is right and
wrong or to help you decide what is right and wrong? The difference being
that what is morally right and wrong can't be determined from deep thought
and you must be told or can it be determined and the Bible just helps
someone clarify their thinking.
Do you believe the Bible is infallible?
(Are there non-Bible-literalists who ban Harry Potter for religious
reasons?)
Please feel free to expand on your answers if the questions are missing the
mark. Like I'm asking if a rock is a plant or an animal ;-)
Joyce
rumpleteasermom
Joyce, one of my e-mail programs will drop to the next line if you hit
enter after you finish typing the subject, then the blank line goes
through instead of what you typed. Could that be what is happening to
you?
Bridget
enter after you finish typing the subject, then the blank line goes
through instead of what you typed. Could that be what is happening to
you?
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Fetteroll <fetteroll@e...> wrote:
> Is anyone else experiencing email with the subject stripped off?
Even couple
> I know I changed the subject of have shown up with no subject. I'm
wondering
> if it's my email program or service provider or if it's Yahoo that's
doing
> this.
>
> If it's just me and mine are going out without subjects, I
apologize, but
> apparently it's out of my control!
>
> Joyce
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Katedavislawfirm@a... wrote:
However,
> the question is, for those unschooling parents among us who would
"frown" on
> Harry Potter for religious reasons, how would you approach a
situation in
> which your son or daughter wanted to read that series?
>
> Kate Davis
Well, I guess my thing is consistency on Harry Potter issue. People
who allow Narnia and LOTR but not Harry have me baffled.
But I am a non-censorship parent in every regard with mine so I guess
I can't really answer what you are really asking!
Bridget
Fetteroll
on 4/26/02 10:27 AM, rumpleteasermom at rumpleteasermom@... wrote:
posts sent by others in threads I haven't even contaminated are coming in
subjectless.
But never mind. I just checked the webpage and all the posts have subjects,
even the ones that I'm sending out without subjects. So it's something
really screwy on my end.
When in doubt, restart the computer ;-)
Joyce
> Joyce, one of my e-mail programs will drop to the next line if you hitNo, I'm not doing anything different than I have for the past 2 years. And
> enter after you finish typing the subject, then the blank line goes
> through instead of what you typed. Could that be what is happening to
> you?
posts sent by others in threads I haven't even contaminated are coming in
subjectless.
But never mind. I just checked the webpage and all the posts have subjects,
even the ones that I'm sending out without subjects. So it's something
really screwy on my end.
When in doubt, restart the computer ;-)
Joyce
Tia Leschke
>Is anyone else experiencing email with the subject stripped off? Even coupleI'm seeing your subject headers.
>I know I changed the subject of have shown up with no subject. I'm wondering
>if it's my email program or service provider or if it's Yahoo that's doing
>this.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
<<For those of you who have deeply-held religious or philosophical
beliefs, how
do you approach a situation in which your child expresses a desire to
engage
in an activity that runs counter to those beliefs?>>
The first thing I do, especially if I'm not sure of what the activity
entails, is do some research. It's easier for people to hear your
objections when you've done your homework. If I still have misgivings I
tell my children so and then let them decide. This is modified with the
youngest, he is only 4 but even with him I explain why I need him to do
(or not) do something.
Usually, once I've explained my views they follow my lead. Lanora (11)
is very considerate of my feelings and trusts my instincts. There have
been rare occasions when she has gone ahead but admitted each time that I
was right. Of course, she also knows that there will be no "I told you
so" from me.
Lanora has already begun to give signals that she's questioning the
tenets of Christianity. I answer her questions when I can, honestly tell
her when I don't know and let her know that doubts are normal. I tell
her that even if God doesn't exist there are certain truths in life and
some activities carry a HIGH potential for harm. Ultimately her faith is
her own and if what I believe is real then it certainly can stand the
test of scrutiny.
Kris
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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beliefs, how
do you approach a situation in which your child expresses a desire to
engage
in an activity that runs counter to those beliefs?>>
The first thing I do, especially if I'm not sure of what the activity
entails, is do some research. It's easier for people to hear your
objections when you've done your homework. If I still have misgivings I
tell my children so and then let them decide. This is modified with the
youngest, he is only 4 but even with him I explain why I need him to do
(or not) do something.
Usually, once I've explained my views they follow my lead. Lanora (11)
is very considerate of my feelings and trusts my instincts. There have
been rare occasions when she has gone ahead but admitted each time that I
was right. Of course, she also knows that there will be no "I told you
so" from me.
Lanora has already begun to give signals that she's questioning the
tenets of Christianity. I answer her questions when I can, honestly tell
her when I don't know and let her know that doubts are normal. I tell
her that even if God doesn't exist there are certain truths in life and
some activities carry a HIGH potential for harm. Ultimately her faith is
her own and if what I believe is real then it certainly can stand the
test of scrutiny.
Kris
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.