I need help with Unschooling a 13 year old - quite long, sorry.
CopperScaleDragon
I am really concerned for my son's will to learn some things and to
accept challenges without being told.
Here is the situation. He is 13, and we started homeschooling in Feb.
of this year. He attended traditional public school until the 4th
grade, then moved to a charter school for the 5th and 6th grade. The
charter school was a good move in a lot of ways, but not without
problems. My son is a very visual learner and the school incorperated
art into the core subjects which gave him other ways to "see" the
information. The classes were 15 or less and thy always had an art
assistant assigned to help the instructor. It worked quite well for
him, but lack of funding and lack of discipline is killing this
school. It has become the county wide dumping ground for problem
students and has become quite rough because of it.
We decided to move to a location outside the metro Atlanta area this
past summer, which put Nick (my son) in a very large Jr. High school.
At the same time, he decided he wanted to join the football team,
which has been a dream of his for a while. We agreed, he tried out
and made the team. The understanding was that practice would be 4
nights a week for the first few weeks before school started and then
would go to 2 nights a week after. This did not happen, and we stayed
on a 4 night a week practice schedule (from 6:00 pm until 8:30 pm)
with a game on Saturday. I asked my son to quit as this was to much,
but he really wanted to keep going. This proved to be to much for
him, as I thought it would. Not only was he in a great deal of shock
from returning to "regular" classes, but he had no time for a life.
He ran home from school did homework, went to practice, then straight
to bed with barely time to eat or say hello to his friends or family.
By the time Sunday rolled around, he was so behind in his homework he
had to spend the day working on that and still had no free time.n He
started having trouble sleeping in September and again, I wanted him
to quit the team. He was insistant that he wanted to continue and my
husband reluctantly agreed. HIs grades were really bad, as would be
expected, but his teaching team agreed with him that removing him from
the team would not be good, since he wanted it so badly. He started
missing school because he was not feeling well most of the time.
In November he developed daily migrain type headaches and had to leave
the team. He started missing school 2 or 3 days a week and when he
was able to attend his headaches were so bad he could not participate
in class. We went to a total of 7 physicians and 1 psychologist
trying to determine the cause of the headaches. I will not even begin
to tell you what we all went through here, but school became a very
small priority to us. Football was out, and Nick did not even argue
about it. (thankfully) By the end of January my son, who has always
been an A/B student was failing the 7th grade and we were thinking of
homeschooling as an aletrnative. During this time, the school tested
my son for learning disabilities and discovered he has some reading
and language problems, not surprising to me, he was almost totally a
visual learner, and also that he was suffering a great deal from
stress. We all decided that homeschool would best serve his needs and
with the school's blessing, we took him out of school.
I have been considering homeschooling and have done a good deal of
reading because before we found the charter school, my son was
starting to have a good deal of trouble in school. I knew it was not
going to work for him to give him a lot of books to read and expect
him to learn, he can not do that very well at all. I started looking
in to several options, and decided to unschool, hoping he would take
this as an opportunity to do things his way. I have not pressured him
a great deal about it so far, but am concerned that he is not real
willing to do much more than play games. (computer and D&D type roll
play) This is all he talks about and all he wants to do. He has
always been very quick at math, but he will not look at math at the
moment. I asked him to figure a tip for me at a restaraunt Sunday and
he could not even do that. It is like he has forgotten all he knows
on the subject.
He will write, however, to some extent. He is playing in a game with
a friend's family and the kids get extra experience if the journal
their character's life outside the game. He has written one paper and
is working on the second. They are not extensive, but they are
something. Of course, they take him forever to accomplish due to his
problems.
Also, I have no idea of how to help him with his learning problems. I
am not really a good teacher, I lose patience and focus a lot and am
very disorganized. My husband would be great, but he is away from
home enough that he is really unable to participate.
I have been following this list for some time, but was waiting for all
the "discussion" to calm down before I approached you with questions.
I really did not want to fan the flames any further.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. How do you motivate a teen?
Thanks,
Jane
accept challenges without being told.
Here is the situation. He is 13, and we started homeschooling in Feb.
of this year. He attended traditional public school until the 4th
grade, then moved to a charter school for the 5th and 6th grade. The
charter school was a good move in a lot of ways, but not without
problems. My son is a very visual learner and the school incorperated
art into the core subjects which gave him other ways to "see" the
information. The classes were 15 or less and thy always had an art
assistant assigned to help the instructor. It worked quite well for
him, but lack of funding and lack of discipline is killing this
school. It has become the county wide dumping ground for problem
students and has become quite rough because of it.
We decided to move to a location outside the metro Atlanta area this
past summer, which put Nick (my son) in a very large Jr. High school.
At the same time, he decided he wanted to join the football team,
which has been a dream of his for a while. We agreed, he tried out
and made the team. The understanding was that practice would be 4
nights a week for the first few weeks before school started and then
would go to 2 nights a week after. This did not happen, and we stayed
on a 4 night a week practice schedule (from 6:00 pm until 8:30 pm)
with a game on Saturday. I asked my son to quit as this was to much,
but he really wanted to keep going. This proved to be to much for
him, as I thought it would. Not only was he in a great deal of shock
from returning to "regular" classes, but he had no time for a life.
He ran home from school did homework, went to practice, then straight
to bed with barely time to eat or say hello to his friends or family.
By the time Sunday rolled around, he was so behind in his homework he
had to spend the day working on that and still had no free time.n He
started having trouble sleeping in September and again, I wanted him
to quit the team. He was insistant that he wanted to continue and my
husband reluctantly agreed. HIs grades were really bad, as would be
expected, but his teaching team agreed with him that removing him from
the team would not be good, since he wanted it so badly. He started
missing school because he was not feeling well most of the time.
In November he developed daily migrain type headaches and had to leave
the team. He started missing school 2 or 3 days a week and when he
was able to attend his headaches were so bad he could not participate
in class. We went to a total of 7 physicians and 1 psychologist
trying to determine the cause of the headaches. I will not even begin
to tell you what we all went through here, but school became a very
small priority to us. Football was out, and Nick did not even argue
about it. (thankfully) By the end of January my son, who has always
been an A/B student was failing the 7th grade and we were thinking of
homeschooling as an aletrnative. During this time, the school tested
my son for learning disabilities and discovered he has some reading
and language problems, not surprising to me, he was almost totally a
visual learner, and also that he was suffering a great deal from
stress. We all decided that homeschool would best serve his needs and
with the school's blessing, we took him out of school.
I have been considering homeschooling and have done a good deal of
reading because before we found the charter school, my son was
starting to have a good deal of trouble in school. I knew it was not
going to work for him to give him a lot of books to read and expect
him to learn, he can not do that very well at all. I started looking
in to several options, and decided to unschool, hoping he would take
this as an opportunity to do things his way. I have not pressured him
a great deal about it so far, but am concerned that he is not real
willing to do much more than play games. (computer and D&D type roll
play) This is all he talks about and all he wants to do. He has
always been very quick at math, but he will not look at math at the
moment. I asked him to figure a tip for me at a restaraunt Sunday and
he could not even do that. It is like he has forgotten all he knows
on the subject.
He will write, however, to some extent. He is playing in a game with
a friend's family and the kids get extra experience if the journal
their character's life outside the game. He has written one paper and
is working on the second. They are not extensive, but they are
something. Of course, they take him forever to accomplish due to his
problems.
Also, I have no idea of how to help him with his learning problems. I
am not really a good teacher, I lose patience and focus a lot and am
very disorganized. My husband would be great, but he is away from
home enough that he is really unable to participate.
I have been following this list for some time, but was waiting for all
the "discussion" to calm down before I approached you with questions.
I really did not want to fan the flames any further.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. How do you motivate a teen?
Thanks,
Jane
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., CopperScaleDragon
<CopperScaleDragon@3...> wrote:
Well my first thought is to give him more time. He needs to just
decompress after an experience like that. With our exchange student,
I've found that sports has become a major pet peeve of mine about the
schooles. Vaidas was on the B-Ball team and quit because his grades
were falling. Now he's in Tennis and it's the same thing all over
again. Practice or matches every night. The only day off is Sunday.
It sucketh!
But back to your son, he really needs some time to unwind and allow
the headaches to become a distant memory.
worry about it right now. When he needs it he'll learn it. D&D has
also led my girls into a lot of stuff about medieval history
(mostly the weaponry) and folklore in general.
I'd have to know more about the learning problems to help with that,
but for the most part, I think a lot of the stuff the schools worry
about can be safely ignored IRL.
Other ideas for you:
Talk to him a lot. Ask him what kind of things he's interested in,
where he'd like to go. Then find things that match that you can do.
Find other unschoolers and homeschoolers in your area that he can
relate to. This may take some time and effort. I've been looking for
7 years and only just this year found exactly what we wanted. But the
search was worth it and was an adventure in and of itself. My girls
learned a lot obout individuality in the process and are quite content
with who they are.
Don't push the reading thing. My ds HATED reading, until he found out
he could read books about motors and trains and stuff. Now he loves
reading best of all. So explore that avenue a little, maybe get some
role playing game manuals and stuff like that for him to read. But
don't present them as reading material. Present them as an
extenuation of his interests.
Bridget
<CopperScaleDragon@3...> wrote:
> Any suggestions would be appreciated. How do you motivate a teen?Hi Jane,
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jane
Well my first thought is to give him more time. He needs to just
decompress after an experience like that. With our exchange student,
I've found that sports has become a major pet peeve of mine about the
schooles. Vaidas was on the B-Ball team and quit because his grades
were falling. Now he's in Tennis and it's the same thing all over
again. Practice or matches every night. The only day off is Sunday.
It sucketh!
But back to your son, he really needs some time to unwind and allow
the headaches to become a distant memory.
> but am concerned that he is not realIf he's playing D&D he's getting math. But beyond that, don't even
> willing to do much more than play games.
> (computer and D&D type roll
worry about it right now. When he needs it he'll learn it. D&D has
also led my girls into a lot of stuff about medieval history
(mostly the weaponry) and folklore in general.
I'd have to know more about the learning problems to help with that,
but for the most part, I think a lot of the stuff the schools worry
about can be safely ignored IRL.
Other ideas for you:
Talk to him a lot. Ask him what kind of things he's interested in,
where he'd like to go. Then find things that match that you can do.
Find other unschoolers and homeschoolers in your area that he can
relate to. This may take some time and effort. I've been looking for
7 years and only just this year found exactly what we wanted. But the
search was worth it and was an adventure in and of itself. My girls
learned a lot obout individuality in the process and are quite content
with who they are.
Don't push the reading thing. My ds HATED reading, until he found out
he could read books about motors and trains and stuff. Now he loves
reading best of all. So explore that avenue a little, maybe get some
role playing game manuals and stuff like that for him to read. But
don't present them as reading material. Present them as an
extenuation of his interests.
Bridget
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/23/02 7:11:02 AM, CopperScaleDragon@... writes:
<< (computer and D&D type roll
play) This is all he talks about and all he wants to do. He has
always been very quick at math, but he will not look at math at the
moment. >>
That IS math. D&D dice games involve a ton of math.
<<I asked him to figure a tip for me at a restaraunt Sunday and
he could not even do that. It is like he has forgotten all he knows
on the subject.>>
You tested him on 15%?
It would have been more productive for you to figure the tip aloud in front
of him. And I hope you didn't expect him to do a whole formulaic process to
get the tip, other than 10% plus half of that amount, if you DID press him
about 15%.
<<They are not extensive, but they are
something. Of course, they take him forever to accomplish due to his
problems. >>>
Try looking at what is instead of what isn't. He IS writing.
It doesn't take him "forever." "Always" and "never" and "forever" are
depressing words, and don't open a door for "now".
<<Any suggestions would be appreciated. How do you motivate a teen?>>
How do you motivate a mom? Motivating him to "study" shouldn't be the goal.
Learning with him, providing him opportunities for easy, visual learning and
companionship with you while it's happening will be your most valuable tool
while you (the mom) begin to really see how natural learning can work.
My recommendation is to watch at least one video a day, together if possible.
Let him watch it again all he wants, or none. Rewind if you miss a line.
Watch the best scenes twice. Don't "test" or do anything schoolish.
Every day, watch a video. Let one lead to another, by actor or subject, or
by time period or genre.
He's only been out two months. Deschooling is usually "prescribed" as one
month per year of school. Don't expect him to have recovered from school
until he's been doing something different for nine months.
But it will speed the process if you stop talking about school, stop talking
about "subject matter," stop measuring and poking and checking him every day
or two.
If a cake's going to be in the oven for 45 minutes, it does NO good (and in
fact does harm) to start opening the oven and sticking toothpicks in it at
five minutes, seven minutes, ten minutes, twelve minutes.
Leave him alone about school.
But enrich his life with thought-expanding input.
On the movies, they don't have to be classic stories, either. Maybe the 100
top movies of all time (a list that came out a few years back) would be a
starting place. Or maybe your video store has an Academy Award section.
But you could go for any kind of theme or experimental pattern. Holly's
liking musicals from the 1930s and has become a big Judy Garland fan. It's
fun to find "first of" things, like Willow had morphing (and the DVD has a
bit about how they did it). One of the Sinbad movies from the 70's had
claymation (or some figure-animation) interacting with the characters. You
could follow one actor, or focus on war movies for a while, or stuff about
Rome.
Don't treat it as a chore, treat it as a vacation!
Sandra
<< (computer and D&D type roll
play) This is all he talks about and all he wants to do. He has
always been very quick at math, but he will not look at math at the
moment. >>
That IS math. D&D dice games involve a ton of math.
<<I asked him to figure a tip for me at a restaraunt Sunday and
he could not even do that. It is like he has forgotten all he knows
on the subject.>>
You tested him on 15%?
It would have been more productive for you to figure the tip aloud in front
of him. And I hope you didn't expect him to do a whole formulaic process to
get the tip, other than 10% plus half of that amount, if you DID press him
about 15%.
<<They are not extensive, but they are
something. Of course, they take him forever to accomplish due to his
problems. >>>
Try looking at what is instead of what isn't. He IS writing.
It doesn't take him "forever." "Always" and "never" and "forever" are
depressing words, and don't open a door for "now".
<<Any suggestions would be appreciated. How do you motivate a teen?>>
How do you motivate a mom? Motivating him to "study" shouldn't be the goal.
Learning with him, providing him opportunities for easy, visual learning and
companionship with you while it's happening will be your most valuable tool
while you (the mom) begin to really see how natural learning can work.
My recommendation is to watch at least one video a day, together if possible.
Let him watch it again all he wants, or none. Rewind if you miss a line.
Watch the best scenes twice. Don't "test" or do anything schoolish.
Every day, watch a video. Let one lead to another, by actor or subject, or
by time period or genre.
He's only been out two months. Deschooling is usually "prescribed" as one
month per year of school. Don't expect him to have recovered from school
until he's been doing something different for nine months.
But it will speed the process if you stop talking about school, stop talking
about "subject matter," stop measuring and poking and checking him every day
or two.
If a cake's going to be in the oven for 45 minutes, it does NO good (and in
fact does harm) to start opening the oven and sticking toothpicks in it at
five minutes, seven minutes, ten minutes, twelve minutes.
Leave him alone about school.
But enrich his life with thought-expanding input.
On the movies, they don't have to be classic stories, either. Maybe the 100
top movies of all time (a list that came out a few years back) would be a
starting place. Or maybe your video store has an Academy Award section.
But you could go for any kind of theme or experimental pattern. Holly's
liking musicals from the 1930s and has become a big Judy Garland fan. It's
fun to find "first of" things, like Willow had morphing (and the DVD has a
bit about how they did it). One of the Sinbad movies from the 70's had
claymation (or some figure-animation) interacting with the characters. You
could follow one actor, or focus on war movies for a while, or stuff about
Rome.
Don't treat it as a chore, treat it as a vacation!
Sandra
Lynda
Jane, your son needs a period known as "deschooling." This is where you
learn to relax and not worry and he gets to get to know himself instead of
what some school official was telling him. He may do absolutely nothing at
first, he may veg in front of the tv or he may get lost in video games.
This WILL pass and he will become interesting in "things" and "stuff."
If he worries about "learning" things, tell him not to worry. Most people
learn more outside of school than all the stuff they have forgotten from
school!
Read some books about unschooling, Mary Griffith and John Holt are
excellent.
As to sports, Pop Warner football is an option instead of going to a ps to
play football.
Lynda
learn to relax and not worry and he gets to get to know himself instead of
what some school official was telling him. He may do absolutely nothing at
first, he may veg in front of the tv or he may get lost in video games.
This WILL pass and he will become interesting in "things" and "stuff."
If he worries about "learning" things, tell him not to worry. Most people
learn more outside of school than all the stuff they have forgotten from
school!
Read some books about unschooling, Mary Griffith and John Holt are
excellent.
As to sports, Pop Warner football is an option instead of going to a ps to
play football.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "CopperScaleDragon" <CopperScaleDragon@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:05 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] I need help with Unschooling a 13 year old -
quite long, sorry.
> I am really concerned for my son's will to learn some things and to
> accept challenges without being told.
>
> Here is the situation. He is 13, and we started homeschooling in Feb.
> of this year. He attended traditional public school until the 4th
> grade, then moved to a charter school for the 5th and 6th grade. The
> charter school was a good move in a lot of ways, but not without
> problems. My son is a very visual learner and the school incorperated
> art into the core subjects which gave him other ways to "see" the
> information. The classes were 15 or less and thy always had an art
> assistant assigned to help the instructor. It worked quite well for
> him, but lack of funding and lack of discipline is killing this
> school. It has become the county wide dumping ground for problem
> students and has become quite rough because of it.
>
> We decided to move to a location outside the metro Atlanta area this
> past summer, which put Nick (my son) in a very large Jr. High school.
> At the same time, he decided he wanted to join the football team,
> which has been a dream of his for a while. We agreed, he tried out
> and made the team. The understanding was that practice would be 4
> nights a week for the first few weeks before school started and then
> would go to 2 nights a week after. This did not happen, and we stayed
> on a 4 night a week practice schedule (from 6:00 pm until 8:30 pm)
> with a game on Saturday. I asked my son to quit as this was to much,
> but he really wanted to keep going. This proved to be to much for
> him, as I thought it would. Not only was he in a great deal of shock
> from returning to "regular" classes, but he had no time for a life.
> He ran home from school did homework, went to practice, then straight
> to bed with barely time to eat or say hello to his friends or family.
> By the time Sunday rolled around, he was so behind in his homework he
> had to spend the day working on that and still had no free time.n He
> started having trouble sleeping in September and again, I wanted him
> to quit the team. He was insistant that he wanted to continue and my
> husband reluctantly agreed. HIs grades were really bad, as would be
> expected, but his teaching team agreed with him that removing him from
> the team would not be good, since he wanted it so badly. He started
> missing school because he was not feeling well most of the time.
>
> In November he developed daily migrain type headaches and had to leave
> the team. He started missing school 2 or 3 days a week and when he
> was able to attend his headaches were so bad he could not participate
> in class. We went to a total of 7 physicians and 1 psychologist
> trying to determine the cause of the headaches. I will not even begin
> to tell you what we all went through here, but school became a very
> small priority to us. Football was out, and Nick did not even argue
> about it. (thankfully) By the end of January my son, who has always
> been an A/B student was failing the 7th grade and we were thinking of
> homeschooling as an aletrnative. During this time, the school tested
> my son for learning disabilities and discovered he has some reading
> and language problems, not surprising to me, he was almost totally a
> visual learner, and also that he was suffering a great deal from
> stress. We all decided that homeschool would best serve his needs and
> with the school's blessing, we took him out of school.
>
> I have been considering homeschooling and have done a good deal of
> reading because before we found the charter school, my son was
> starting to have a good deal of trouble in school. I knew it was not
> going to work for him to give him a lot of books to read and expect
> him to learn, he can not do that very well at all. I started looking
> in to several options, and decided to unschool, hoping he would take
> this as an opportunity to do things his way. I have not pressured him
> a great deal about it so far, but am concerned that he is not real
> willing to do much more than play games. (computer and D&D type roll
> play) This is all he talks about and all he wants to do. He has
> always been very quick at math, but he will not look at math at the
> moment. I asked him to figure a tip for me at a restaraunt Sunday and
> he could not even do that. It is like he has forgotten all he knows
> on the subject.
>
> He will write, however, to some extent. He is playing in a game with
> a friend's family and the kids get extra experience if the journal
> their character's life outside the game. He has written one paper and
> is working on the second. They are not extensive, but they are
> something. Of course, they take him forever to accomplish due to his
> problems.
>
> Also, I have no idea of how to help him with his learning problems. I
> am not really a good teacher, I lose patience and focus a lot and am
> very disorganized. My husband would be great, but he is away from
> home enough that he is really unable to participate.
>
> I have been following this list for some time, but was waiting for all
> the "discussion" to calm down before I approached you with questions.
> I really did not want to fan the flames any further.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated. How do you motivate a teen?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jane
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
Hi Jane
<<He is 13, and we started homeschooling in Feb.>>
It could take months for him to "deschool", to recover from school. The
more you understand unschooling the more you'll see how mind and spirit
numbing school is.
<<I have been considering homeschooling and have done a good deal of
reading because before we found the charter school, my son was
starting to have a good deal of trouble in school. I knew it was not
going to work for him to give him a lot of books to read and expect
him to learn, he can not do that very well at all. I started looking
in to several options, and decided to unschool, hoping he would take
this as an opportunity to do things his way.>>
The key element of successful unschooling is trusting your child. Trust
that they can and will learn. Learning is like breathing, can't be
stopped. My opinion is that a majority of the time spent "deschooling"
is the child testing the parents, "Are they REALLY gonna let me do this?"
Who can blame them for resenting and even fighting against being forced
and judged by the school system?
<<I have not pressured him
a great deal about it so far, but am concerned that he is not real
willing to do much more than play games. (computer and D&D type roll
play)>>
As long as we see books and lessons as learning we miss the value gained
in other activities. If you're able to truly see the value in what he IS
doing you'll be able to let go of the old ideas. Math, science,
language, etc. are all tools and to be used for our purpose.
I tell my daughter to follow her passions and use whatever tools she
needs to do so. One of her passions is Pokemon card game play and for
this she uses math, logic, strategy, language, reading and discipline.
Because she uses these tools in way they are allies and friendly thus she
is more confident in using them in other and new passions.
<<This is all he talks about and all he wants to do. He has
always been very quick at math, but he will not look at math at the
moment. I asked him to figure a tip for me at a restaurant Sunday and
he could not even do that. It is like he has forgotten all he knows
on the subject.>>
In school things like math become a chore, knowledge with no purpose
except but being regurgitated for testing. My daughter can do complex
calculations for her real life endeavors but if they were put on paper
and tested she would freeze up. It may take time for your son to see
math as a friendly tool.
Ultimately your son's learning problems belong to him and he will learn
how to find ways to compensate. A friend with dyslexia, after years of
struggling in the "school" way, finally taught himself to read and study
in his late teens and managed to graduate college with a master's degree.
Now I realize that most of us are capable of doing the same thing.
My place as parent is to give support and demonstrate my faith in them.
When kids are given the message that they can't be trusted to learn they
usually rise no further than that. My opinion is that this is the MAIN
problem with any school, kids are told when and how to learn and then
tested to make sure they are.
Kris
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<<He is 13, and we started homeschooling in Feb.>>
It could take months for him to "deschool", to recover from school. The
more you understand unschooling the more you'll see how mind and spirit
numbing school is.
<<I have been considering homeschooling and have done a good deal of
reading because before we found the charter school, my son was
starting to have a good deal of trouble in school. I knew it was not
going to work for him to give him a lot of books to read and expect
him to learn, he can not do that very well at all. I started looking
in to several options, and decided to unschool, hoping he would take
this as an opportunity to do things his way.>>
The key element of successful unschooling is trusting your child. Trust
that they can and will learn. Learning is like breathing, can't be
stopped. My opinion is that a majority of the time spent "deschooling"
is the child testing the parents, "Are they REALLY gonna let me do this?"
Who can blame them for resenting and even fighting against being forced
and judged by the school system?
<<I have not pressured him
a great deal about it so far, but am concerned that he is not real
willing to do much more than play games. (computer and D&D type roll
play)>>
As long as we see books and lessons as learning we miss the value gained
in other activities. If you're able to truly see the value in what he IS
doing you'll be able to let go of the old ideas. Math, science,
language, etc. are all tools and to be used for our purpose.
I tell my daughter to follow her passions and use whatever tools she
needs to do so. One of her passions is Pokemon card game play and for
this she uses math, logic, strategy, language, reading and discipline.
Because she uses these tools in way they are allies and friendly thus she
is more confident in using them in other and new passions.
<<This is all he talks about and all he wants to do. He has
always been very quick at math, but he will not look at math at the
moment. I asked him to figure a tip for me at a restaurant Sunday and
he could not even do that. It is like he has forgotten all he knows
on the subject.>>
In school things like math become a chore, knowledge with no purpose
except but being regurgitated for testing. My daughter can do complex
calculations for her real life endeavors but if they were put on paper
and tested she would freeze up. It may take time for your son to see
math as a friendly tool.
Ultimately your son's learning problems belong to him and he will learn
how to find ways to compensate. A friend with dyslexia, after years of
struggling in the "school" way, finally taught himself to read and study
in his late teens and managed to graduate college with a master's degree.
Now I realize that most of us are capable of doing the same thing.
My place as parent is to give support and demonstrate my faith in them.
When kids are given the message that they can't be trusted to learn they
usually rise no further than that. My opinion is that this is the MAIN
problem with any school, kids are told when and how to learn and then
tested to make sure they are.
Kris
________________________________________________________________
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zenmomma *
Hi Jane and welcome! It's great that you've decided to check out unschooling
for your family. :o)
After reading your post about your wonderful son and his painfully stressful
experiences, my first suggestion is to ::::::::breathe:::::::::: Take a
moment, a day, a week, a month....and just breathe, relax, and get used to
the idea of this new life WITHOUT school.
I remember very well what it was like to be on the school's timetable. I
remember thinking that if my son didn't learn it on *their* schedule, he was
behind, or disabled or just NOT going to be able to succeed, ever. The good
news is, though, that I have discovered how wrong my thinking was. :o)
A standard piece of homeschooling/unschooling advice is to take awhile to
"deschool" when your child first comes home. This is a time where you don't
think about school or subjects or required learning or learning disabilities
or anything of that sort. It's a time to reconnect with your son. Use it to
go to movies, read what you like and share it with your son, go to a cool
play, take a trip, browse online, play D&D together....anything that helps
you shake off the school stress and get to know each other without all that
baggage.
Unschooling isn't about teaching as much as it is about learning. You don't
need to teach your son what he wants to learn about. But you can help him
find his way to learn. There are mentors and classes and apprenticeships and
computer programs and museum docents and artists and all sorts of community
resources that are out there once you open yourself up to look for them. :o)
You are not alone and do not have to do it/know it all.
AHhhhh...big relief. And after a good healthy period of deschooling, your
son will start opening up more and following his own passions and interests
and goals. I think the things he is doing now sound great, and I wouldn't
worry that he's not learning. There's so much to learn at every corner and
your son is taking it all in. Right now. Just playing. Promise. I have seen
it happen in my own kids and lots of others.
learning to look like school.
Your son is lucky to have you looking out for him. :o)
Life is good.
~Mary (Mom of a formerly over-labelled and stressed son.)
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
for your family. :o)
After reading your post about your wonderful son and his painfully stressful
experiences, my first suggestion is to ::::::::breathe:::::::::: Take a
moment, a day, a week, a month....and just breathe, relax, and get used to
the idea of this new life WITHOUT school.
I remember very well what it was like to be on the school's timetable. I
remember thinking that if my son didn't learn it on *their* schedule, he was
behind, or disabled or just NOT going to be able to succeed, ever. The good
news is, though, that I have discovered how wrong my thinking was. :o)
A standard piece of homeschooling/unschooling advice is to take awhile to
"deschool" when your child first comes home. This is a time where you don't
think about school or subjects or required learning or learning disabilities
or anything of that sort. It's a time to reconnect with your son. Use it to
go to movies, read what you like and share it with your son, go to a cool
play, take a trip, browse online, play D&D together....anything that helps
you shake off the school stress and get to know each other without all that
baggage.
>>Also, I have no idea of how to help him with his learning problems. I amvery disorganized.>>
>>not really a good teacher, I lose patience and focus a lot and am
Unschooling isn't about teaching as much as it is about learning. You don't
need to teach your son what he wants to learn about. But you can help him
find his way to learn. There are mentors and classes and apprenticeships and
computer programs and museum docents and artists and all sorts of community
resources that are out there once you open yourself up to look for them. :o)
You are not alone and do not have to do it/know it all.
AHhhhh...big relief. And after a good healthy period of deschooling, your
son will start opening up more and following his own passions and interests
and goals. I think the things he is doing now sound great, and I wouldn't
worry that he's not learning. There's so much to learn at every corner and
your son is taking it all in. Right now. Just playing. Promise. I have seen
it happen in my own kids and lots of others.
>>How do you motivate a teen?>>Listen to him. Give him time to find his interests again. Don't expect his
learning to look like school.
Your son is lucky to have you looking out for him. :o)
Life is good.
~Mary (Mom of a formerly over-labelled and stressed son.)
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
CopperScaleDragon
On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:39:27 -0600, you wrote:
not "regular" school things. I have some computer games that I have
found that are great teaching tools, and I am letting him veg a bit.
I have, however, limited some of his TV viewing. I told him that
cartoons all day are not a good thing and that he should tune in the
Discover stations more. he enjoys them a lot, I think he just forgets
thay are there.
We are also reading together and playing "Diablo" in multi player mode
together a lot. He plays D&D regularly with firends, but we do not
have a big enough group yet to play here in the new neighborhood. We
will soon, though. Several of our home school group kids are
interested.
want him to become addicted to the games like a couple of his friends
have. It is all they think about and it is, IMHO, not a healthy thing
for a kid.
group. No one in this group unschools, though. They are all running
crazy trying to get "curriculum" together right now, in fact. They
think I am crazy for thinking about unschooling.
Jane
>After reading your post about your wonderful son and his painfully stressfulI have been trying to do this. I am giving him some things to do, but
>experiences, my first suggestion is to ::::::::breathe:::::::::: Take a
>moment, a day, a week, a month....and just breathe, relax, and get used to
>the idea of this new life WITHOUT school.
not "regular" school things. I have some computer games that I have
found that are great teaching tools, and I am letting him veg a bit.
I have, however, limited some of his TV viewing. I told him that
cartoons all day are not a good thing and that he should tune in the
Discover stations more. he enjoys them a lot, I think he just forgets
thay are there.
We are also reading together and playing "Diablo" in multi player mode
together a lot. He plays D&D regularly with firends, but we do not
have a big enough group yet to play here in the new neighborhood. We
will soon, though. Several of our home school group kids are
interested.
>I am really not concerned with their timetable at all. I just do not
>I remember very well what it was like to be on the school's timetable. I
>remember thinking that if my son didn't learn it on *their* schedule, he was
>behind, or disabled or just NOT going to be able to succeed, ever. The good
>news is, though, that I have discovered how wrong my thinking was. :o)
want him to become addicted to the games like a couple of his friends
have. It is all they think about and it is, IMHO, not a healthy thing
for a kid.
>A great suggestion, something I need to do more of.
>A standard piece of homeschooling/unschooling advice is to take awhile to
>"deschool" when your child first comes home. This is a time where you don't
>think about school or subjects or required learning or learning disabilities
>or anything of that sort. It's a time to reconnect with your son. Use it to
>go to movies, read what you like and share it with your son, go to a cool
>play, take a trip, browse online, play D&D together....anything that helps
>you shake off the school stress and get to know each other without all that
>baggage.
>Unschooling isn't about teaching as much as it is about learning. You don'tI am finding some things, and I have found a good teen homeschool
>need to teach your son what he wants to learn about. But you can help him
>find his way to learn. There are mentors and classes and apprenticeships and
>computer programs and museum docents and artists and all sorts of community
>resources that are out there once you open yourself up to look for them. :o)
>You are not alone and do not have to do it/know it all.
group. No one in this group unschools, though. They are all running
crazy trying to get "curriculum" together right now, in fact. They
think I am crazy for thinking about unschooling.
>Great advice.
>>>How do you motivate a teen?>>
>
>Listen to him. Give him time to find his interests again. Don't expect his
>learning to look like school.
>Thanks for all the suggestions. I will try to follow them.
>Your son is lucky to have you looking out for him. :o)
>
>Life is good.
>~Mary (Mom of a formerly over-labelled and stressed son.)
Jane
>
CopperScaleDragon
On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:05:39 EDT, you wrote:
was able to figure a tip for us on the fly last year with no problem
and now he seems to have forgotten how, even the simple things like
figuring ten percent. He has always been really great with math and
loved the subject. Math and Science, art photography and drame are
his favorite subjects. He just seems to have lost ground. Maybe it
is just decompressing from all the stress, but it is worrysome to me
and my husband.
correct it unless he asks me to. I leave him to do this as he wants
and to feel the joy in doing so. He is very proud of what he is
working on, and that is good. I just have personal concerns for
helping him learn to express himself better in a written form. He
wants to go to college and become an architect. He is going to need
to be able to write to do this.
game format for him. I have found an algebra game that he enjoys and
a friend has loande me "Zoombinis" stuff that we both love. I need to
find a copy of this we can keep!
people and he is interested in acting, so movies are great. We also
watch a lot of specials on Discover and TLC together. We discuss
them, and try to connect what we saw with other things we know from
other media, but I do not test him.
well.
Thanks to you and others who have taken the time to respond to me. I
am happy to have someone who is listning.
Jane
>Oh, I know that. I play myself. The thing I worry about is that he
>In a message dated 4/23/02 7:11:02 AM, CopperScaleDragon@... writes:
>
><< (computer and D&D type roll
>play) This is all he talks about and all he wants to do. He has
>always been very quick at math, but he will not look at math at the
>moment. >>
>
>That IS math. D&D dice games involve a ton of math.
was able to figure a tip for us on the fly last year with no problem
and now he seems to have forgotten how, even the simple things like
figuring ten percent. He has always been really great with math and
loved the subject. Math and Science, art photography and drame are
his favorite subjects. He just seems to have lost ground. Maybe it
is just decompressing from all the stress, but it is worrysome to me
and my husband.
>problems. >>>I am very happy that he is writing. I look at his work and do not
>
>Try looking at what is instead of what isn't. He IS writing.
>It doesn't take him "forever." "Always" and "never" and "forever" are
>depressing words, and don't open a door for "now".
correct it unless he asks me to. I leave him to do this as he wants
and to feel the joy in doing so. He is very proud of what he is
working on, and that is good. I just have personal concerns for
helping him learn to express himself better in a written form. He
wants to go to college and become an architect. He is going to need
to be able to write to do this.
>He loves the computer and games, so I am buying what I can find in
>
>How do you motivate a mom? Motivating him to "study" shouldn't be the goal.
>Learning with him, providing him opportunities for easy, visual learning and
>companionship with you while it's happening will be your most valuable tool
>while you (the mom) begin to really see how natural learning can work.
game format for him. I have found an algebra game that he enjoys and
a friend has loande me "Zoombinis" stuff that we both love. I need to
find a copy of this we can keep!
>We do a lot of this kind of thing already. He and I are both movie
>My recommendation is to watch at least one video a day, together if possible.
> Let him watch it again all he wants, or none. Rewind if you miss a line.
>Watch the best scenes twice. Don't "test" or do anything schoolish.
people and he is interested in acting, so movies are great. We also
watch a lot of specials on Discover and TLC together. We discuss
them, and try to connect what we saw with other things we know from
other media, but I do not test him.
>He's only been out two months. Deschooling is usually "prescribed" as oneMaybe by the fall......
>month per year of school. Don't expect him to have recovered from school
>until he's been doing something different for nine months.
>I hear that. I will try to follow and to get my husband to do so as
>But it will speed the process if you stop talking about school, stop talking
>about "subject matter," stop measuring and poking and checking him every day
>or two.
well.
Thanks to you and others who have taken the time to respond to me. I
am happy to have someone who is listning.
Jane
CopperScaleDragon
Sorry to take so long to respond to you. This has been a very busy
week!
society, IMHO.
looking at next fall and how to prepare.
with this in his life. I was happy that he loves it as much as I do.
not express himself in written form very well. Language stuff just
does not "click" for him. He has expressed a desire to go to college
many times and wants to be an archetect or possibly a psychologist.
for either profession he will need to read well and be able to write
clearly. I just do not want this to be a wall he cannot climb.
friends. I can't seem to get him interested in doing much of
anything. He does not like to read, so that is not a great way for
him to learn things either. He can not live his whole life in our
house in front of the computer or playing his games with friends.
Left to his own, this is what he will do, however. We have joined a
homeschool group and we are starting to plan field trips, so this will
help. He is willing to go to these as the others are going as well.
None of these families unschool, though. They are trying to talk me
out of the concept but I do not think that what they are doing would
be good for my son. I may as well put him back in school if I am
going to buy him mountains of books and expect him to learn from them.
The only problem with the group is the "normal" teen stuff is going
on. This one has a crush on that one, this that one has a crush on
someone else, and so on. The moms are stressing this like mad,
wanting to forbid boy-girl things within the group. I think that
although we do need to watch what is going on, we also need to stay
out of it. They need to learn to deal with each other. I also think
that by forbidding them to say they like this one or that one, we only
make it more attractive. It's not like they are doing any more than
talking. They are 12-15 years old. This is the way 12-15 year old
kids are. Of course, I have a boy.........
Thanks for all the suggestions. I wish I could find an unschooling
family near here.
Jane (in Acworth, GA)
week!
>I agree. Sports have become such a focus and it is not productive to
>Well my first thought is to give him more time. He needs to just
>decompress after an experience like that. With our exchange student,
>I've found that sports has become a major pet peeve of mine about the
>schooles. Vaidas was on the B-Ball team and quit because his grades
>were falling. Now he's in Tennis and it's the same thing all over
>again. Practice or matches every night. The only day off is Sunday.
> It sucketh!
society, IMHO.
>This much I do know, and I am willing to give him that. I am just
>But back to your son, he really needs some time to unwind and allow
>the headaches to become a distant memory.
looking at next fall and how to prepare.
>I love D&D and roll play. My husband and I play and my son grew up
>If he's playing D&D he's getting math. But beyond that, don't even
>worry about it right now. When he needs it he'll learn it. D&D has
>also led my girls into a lot of stuff about medieval history
>(mostly the weaponry) and folklore in general.
with this in his life. I was happy that he loves it as much as I do.
>He seems to have a problem processing information he reads and he can
>I'd have to know more about the learning problems to help with that,
>but for the most part, I think a lot of the stuff the schools worry
>about can be safely ignored IRL.
not express himself in written form very well. Language stuff just
does not "click" for him. He has expressed a desire to go to college
many times and wants to be an archetect or possibly a psychologist.
for either profession he will need to read well and be able to write
clearly. I just do not want this to be a wall he cannot climb.
>I do, he never wants to go out of the house unless it is to see his
>Other ideas for you:
>Talk to him a lot. Ask him what kind of things he's interested in,
>where he'd like to go. Then find things that match that you can do.
friends. I can't seem to get him interested in doing much of
anything. He does not like to read, so that is not a great way for
him to learn things either. He can not live his whole life in our
house in front of the computer or playing his games with friends.
Left to his own, this is what he will do, however. We have joined a
homeschool group and we are starting to plan field trips, so this will
help. He is willing to go to these as the others are going as well.
None of these families unschool, though. They are trying to talk me
out of the concept but I do not think that what they are doing would
be good for my son. I may as well put him back in school if I am
going to buy him mountains of books and expect him to learn from them.
The only problem with the group is the "normal" teen stuff is going
on. This one has a crush on that one, this that one has a crush on
someone else, and so on. The moms are stressing this like mad,
wanting to forbid boy-girl things within the group. I think that
although we do need to watch what is going on, we also need to stay
out of it. They need to learn to deal with each other. I also think
that by forbidding them to say they like this one or that one, we only
make it more attractive. It's not like they are doing any more than
talking. They are 12-15 years old. This is the way 12-15 year old
kids are. Of course, I have a boy.........
Thanks for all the suggestions. I wish I could find an unschooling
family near here.
Jane (in Acworth, GA)
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., CopperScaleDragon
problem? If he's interestedin archetecture, have looked at any
computer programs for that? I've seen some design programs that
looked pretty cool. Also, perhaps talk the homeschool group into an
architecture field trip? Got any famous building near you?
like. It turned them off teens in general. I am so glad this farm
bureau thing came up, because they are so much more happy with this
group of teens!
And I don't think you feel the way you do because yours is a boy.
Mine ar egirls and I think if parents stay the heck outof it more, sex
wouldn't be as much of a problem. But then I think a lotof the reason
my girls are not interestedis because they'vehad time to develope
their own personalities. When I was there age, i was still searching
because I was in school and I didn't fit in. In an effort to fit in,
I did lots of stuff that I think i would not have, had I been more
secure in who I was then.
Bridget
>can
> He seems to have a problem processing information he reads and he
> not express himself in written form very well. Language stuff justcollege
> does not "click" for him. He has expressed a desire to go to
> many times and wants to be an archetect or possibly a psychologist.Has he tried books on tape or do they present the same type of
> for either profession he will need to read well and be able to write
> clearly. I just do not want this to be a wall he cannot climb.
>
problem? If he's interestedin archetecture, have looked at any
computer programs for that? I've seen some design programs that
looked pretty cool. Also, perhaps talk the homeschool group into an
architecture field trip? Got any famous building near you?
> The only problem with the group is the "normal" teen stuff is goingonly
> on. This one has a crush on that one, this that one has a crush on
> someone else, and so on. The moms are stressing this like mad,
> wanting to forbid boy-girl things within the group. I think that
> although we do need to watch what is going on, we also need to stay
> out of it. They need to learn to deal with each other. I also think
> that by forbidding them to say they like this one or that one, we
> make it more attractive. It's not like they are doing any more thanI hear that one!!! My girls were taking a class with a group of teens
> talking. They are 12-15 years old. This is the way 12-15 year old
> kids are. Of course, I have a boy.........
like. It turned them off teens in general. I am so glad this farm
bureau thing came up, because they are so much more happy with this
group of teens!
And I don't think you feel the way you do because yours is a boy.
Mine ar egirls and I think if parents stay the heck outof it more, sex
wouldn't be as much of a problem. But then I think a lotof the reason
my girls are not interestedis because they'vehad time to develope
their own personalities. When I was there age, i was still searching
because I was in school and I didn't fit in. In an effort to fit in,
I did lots of stuff that I think i would not have, had I been more
secure in who I was then.
Bridget
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/25/02 9:41:07 AM, CopperScaleDragon@... writes:
<< Thanks for all the suggestions. I wish I could find an unschooling
family near here.
Jane (in Acworth, GA)
can find (or help build) some neighboring unschoolers there.
http://www.schoolsoutsupport.org/index.html
Sandra
<< Thanks for all the suggestions. I wish I could find an unschooling
family near here.
Jane (in Acworth, GA)
>>There's a conference of unschoolers in Columbia SC in October, and I bet you
can find (or help build) some neighboring unschoolers there.
http://www.schoolsoutsupport.org/index.html
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/25/02 9:57:19 AM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:
<< Also, perhaps talk the homeschool group into an
architecture field trip? Got any famous building near you? >>
You don't need a group to go and look at architecture.
But you don't even need to go to look.
There are thousands of things online--go to google.com and enter two or three
architectural terms and you'll find sites with links and pictures and
diagrams and photos and history and all KINDS of stuff.
Some books you can find used easily are the David Macaulay books called
Pyramid, Cathedral... (what are the others?). Not much text; MUCH
illustration. (AHA! I see there are videos...)
VRC: Videos: David Macaulay series
DAVID MACAULAY SERIES: CATHEDRAL, CASTLE, PYRAMID, ROMAN
CITY each about 60 minutes CATHEDRAL ...
www.fsu.edu/~arh/VRC/V/CCPR.html - 5k - Cached - Similar pages
BUILDING BIG: Show Credits
... and the acclaimed series of specials based on books by David Macaulay --
Castle,
Cathedral, Pyramid, and Roman City, which earned a Primetime Emmy Award in
1994 ...
www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/credits.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages
Macaulay bio
... with the way things work, David Macaulay P '96 has fashioned a ...
illustrator. Three
of his books, Cathedral, Castle and Pyramid, have been made into popular ...
www.wheatonma.edu/cr/96/MacauleyBio.html - 4k - Cached - Similar pages
Children's Books / Authors & Illustrators, AZ / ( M ) / Macaulay ...
... October 1982. 3. Pyramid David MacAulay / Houghton Mifflin Co (Juv) /
April 1982.
4. Cathedral : The Story of Its Construction David MacAulay / Houghton
Mifflin ...
hallkidsillustrators.com/M/10.shtml - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
Sandra
<< Also, perhaps talk the homeschool group into an
architecture field trip? Got any famous building near you? >>
You don't need a group to go and look at architecture.
But you don't even need to go to look.
There are thousands of things online--go to google.com and enter two or three
architectural terms and you'll find sites with links and pictures and
diagrams and photos and history and all KINDS of stuff.
Some books you can find used easily are the David Macaulay books called
Pyramid, Cathedral... (what are the others?). Not much text; MUCH
illustration. (AHA! I see there are videos...)
VRC: Videos: David Macaulay series
DAVID MACAULAY SERIES: CATHEDRAL, CASTLE, PYRAMID, ROMAN
CITY each about 60 minutes CATHEDRAL ...
www.fsu.edu/~arh/VRC/V/CCPR.html - 5k - Cached - Similar pages
BUILDING BIG: Show Credits
... and the acclaimed series of specials based on books by David Macaulay --
Castle,
Cathedral, Pyramid, and Roman City, which earned a Primetime Emmy Award in
1994 ...
www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/credits.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages
Macaulay bio
... with the way things work, David Macaulay P '96 has fashioned a ...
illustrator. Three
of his books, Cathedral, Castle and Pyramid, have been made into popular ...
www.wheatonma.edu/cr/96/MacauleyBio.html - 4k - Cached - Similar pages
Children's Books / Authors & Illustrators, AZ / ( M ) / Macaulay ...
... October 1982. 3. Pyramid David MacAulay / Houghton Mifflin Co (Juv) /
April 1982.
4. Cathedral : The Story of Its Construction David MacAulay / Houghton
Mifflin ...
hallkidsillustrators.com/M/10.shtml - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
Sandra
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
thing. She said he doesnt want go out unless the group has plans.
This would be one more field trip but would help kindle his interests
too.
Anoterh thought I just had, have you ever seen the Giant
Book of Cross-sections and other books in the series? They show
things cut into slices. Cool books.
Bridget
>The field trip suggestion was a kill two birds with one stone kind of
> In a message dated 4/25/02 9:57:19 AM, rumpleteasermom@j... writes:
>
> << Also, perhaps talk the homeschool group into an
> architecture field trip? Got any famous building near you? >>
>
> You don't need a group to go and look at architecture.
thing. She said he doesnt want go out unless the group has plans.
This would be one more field trip but would help kindle his interests
too.
Anoterh thought I just had, have you ever seen the Giant
Book of Cross-sections and other books in the series? They show
things cut into slices. Cool books.
Bridget