Re: Friends(?)/Family
Robin Stark
I had an experience this morning where my best friend, who lives in Los
Angeles to my Tacoma, WA, told me not to send her any information on
homeschooling or unschooling. She said she just didn't agree with me and
that she had her way and I had my way and that was the way it was. She said
she didn't want to argue about it, so we just couldn't talk about it. (We
haven't argued about it. In fact, we've hardly talked about it. )
But before she told me this, in a previous email she said, "I guess the
main thing I'm concerned about is that they're going to miss out on social
things at school and that they won't have a varied curriculum. Also, how
do they get a diploma or credits for going to college? I don't know
anything about these things. What about proms, football games, etc.,
things that I really loved in school. Tell me."
So I tried to tell her. I sent her one article from the free emails from
the Home Ed Magazine. ONE article. I was going to try to spoonfeed her. She
couldn't even read that. She knows absolutely NOTHING about the subject,
but she has already formed her opinion. I'm telling you, I 'bout crapped my
drawers. I have know this woman longer than I've known my husband (16
years), and I never knew she was so narrow-minded. I'm at a loss for what
to do because it's going to be hard for me to get over her closed mind.
What she is saying is that her opinion, which is based on NOTHING -- she
has already admitted the knows nothing about the subject -- is more valid
than my opinion, which is based on a lot of time and research and the love
of my children. Boy, the more I think about it, the madder I get.
Robin Stark
Robin Stark
Angeles to my Tacoma, WA, told me not to send her any information on
homeschooling or unschooling. She said she just didn't agree with me and
that she had her way and I had my way and that was the way it was. She said
she didn't want to argue about it, so we just couldn't talk about it. (We
haven't argued about it. In fact, we've hardly talked about it. )
But before she told me this, in a previous email she said, "I guess the
main thing I'm concerned about is that they're going to miss out on social
things at school and that they won't have a varied curriculum. Also, how
do they get a diploma or credits for going to college? I don't know
anything about these things. What about proms, football games, etc.,
things that I really loved in school. Tell me."
So I tried to tell her. I sent her one article from the free emails from
the Home Ed Magazine. ONE article. I was going to try to spoonfeed her. She
couldn't even read that. She knows absolutely NOTHING about the subject,
but she has already formed her opinion. I'm telling you, I 'bout crapped my
drawers. I have know this woman longer than I've known my husband (16
years), and I never knew she was so narrow-minded. I'm at a loss for what
to do because it's going to be hard for me to get over her closed mind.
What she is saying is that her opinion, which is based on NOTHING -- she
has already admitted the knows nothing about the subject -- is more valid
than my opinion, which is based on a lot of time and research and the love
of my children. Boy, the more I think about it, the madder I get.
Robin Stark
>- - - - - - - -
>Ann,
> Unfortunately, we have done so in a way. We don't see my parents even a
>third as much as we used to, and our relationship is very strained now. I
>hate to see it happen like that, but whenever I bend just a little and
>apologize, they seem to think that I am admitting that I am wrong, and they
>come in and try to take charge again. With my husbands help, I am firmly
>standing my ground, but my parents are not happy with that effect, and they
>have pulled away because of it.
>Tami in In
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Congratulations to 'Voice-Diary,' our latest ONElist of the Week.
>http://www.onelist.com
>Visit our homepage and share with us how ONElist is changing YOUR life!
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
Robin Stark
Tea Lover Denise
<Robin said: "I had an experience this morning where my best friend, who
lives in Los Angeles to my Tacoma, WA, told me not to send her any
information on homeschooling or unschooling. She said she just didn't
agree with me and that she had her way and I had my way and that was the
way it was. She said she didn't want to argue about it, so we just
couldn't talk about it. (We haven't argued about it. In fact, we've
hardly talked about it.) But before she told me this, in a previous
email she said, "I guess the main thing I'm concerned about is that
they're going to miss out on social things at school and that they won't
have a varied curriculum. Also, how do they get a diploma or credits
for going to college? I don't know anything about these things. What
about proms, football games, etc., things that I really loved in
school. Tell me." So I tried to tell her. I sent her one article from
the free emails from the Home Ed Magazine. ONE article. I was going to
try to spoonfeed her. She couldn't even read that. She knows absolutely
NOTHING about the subject, but she has already formed her opinion. I'm
telling you, I 'bout crapped my drawers. I have know this woman longer
than I've known my husband (16 years), and I never knew she was so
narrow-minded. I'm at a loss for what to do because it's going to be
hard for me to get over her closed mind. What she is saying is that her
opinion, which is based on NOTHING -- she has already admitted the knows
nothing about the subject -- is more valid than my opinion, which is
based on a lot of time and research and the love of my children. Boy,
the more I think about it, the madder I get.>
Robin ~
I know exactly how you feel. My friends, too, have severely questioned
my unschooling choice. When they are just asking me general questions
about it, I can sense their disapproval. I've learned to say as little
as possible, but I think that the unschooling website section about how
to explain it to other people is going to be helpful with regard to
certain "buzz words" which might prove beneficial.
IMHO, the reason many people (like your friend) are so angered at our
unschooling decision is because deep inside, they are jealous at seeing
someone else take control, charge, and power over their life. Think
about it: most women we know are on the fast track and life, in essence,
is controlling them. When they see another woman who is taking charge of
her life and (probably) doing so at some level of sacrifice, it forces
them to look truthfully at their own life. At least, that's what I see
happening with a couple of my girlfriends. I even hear them make
comments like, "Maybe I should have homeschooled my kids," but then they
go right back to questioning my choice.
I think trying to "convince" others that unschooling is the right thing
to do is like trying to convince someone to change their religion or
something like that, just because we think they should. In my case,
unschooling was a discovery I had to make for myself, just like my being
born again was a discovery I had to make for myself. Embracing
unschooling was a process for me; a journey. How do you "explain" that
to someone else? Why should we be required to? We don't have to explain
to them why we go to the church we do, or why we shop at the grocery
store we do, etc., etc.
I also think that most people truly believe that public school education
in this country is in big trouble, but they are not willing to do
anything about it. And those of us who ARE willing to do something about
it, are threatening to them.
My two cents...
Denise, a tea lover in South Carolina
Stop by for a cup of tea ~ http://www.angelfire.com/sc/tealover
lives in Los Angeles to my Tacoma, WA, told me not to send her any
information on homeschooling or unschooling. She said she just didn't
agree with me and that she had her way and I had my way and that was the
way it was. She said she didn't want to argue about it, so we just
couldn't talk about it. (We haven't argued about it. In fact, we've
hardly talked about it.) But before she told me this, in a previous
email she said, "I guess the main thing I'm concerned about is that
they're going to miss out on social things at school and that they won't
have a varied curriculum. Also, how do they get a diploma or credits
for going to college? I don't know anything about these things. What
about proms, football games, etc., things that I really loved in
school. Tell me." So I tried to tell her. I sent her one article from
the free emails from the Home Ed Magazine. ONE article. I was going to
try to spoonfeed her. She couldn't even read that. She knows absolutely
NOTHING about the subject, but she has already formed her opinion. I'm
telling you, I 'bout crapped my drawers. I have know this woman longer
than I've known my husband (16 years), and I never knew she was so
narrow-minded. I'm at a loss for what to do because it's going to be
hard for me to get over her closed mind. What she is saying is that her
opinion, which is based on NOTHING -- she has already admitted the knows
nothing about the subject -- is more valid than my opinion, which is
based on a lot of time and research and the love of my children. Boy,
the more I think about it, the madder I get.>
Robin ~
I know exactly how you feel. My friends, too, have severely questioned
my unschooling choice. When they are just asking me general questions
about it, I can sense their disapproval. I've learned to say as little
as possible, but I think that the unschooling website section about how
to explain it to other people is going to be helpful with regard to
certain "buzz words" which might prove beneficial.
IMHO, the reason many people (like your friend) are so angered at our
unschooling decision is because deep inside, they are jealous at seeing
someone else take control, charge, and power over their life. Think
about it: most women we know are on the fast track and life, in essence,
is controlling them. When they see another woman who is taking charge of
her life and (probably) doing so at some level of sacrifice, it forces
them to look truthfully at their own life. At least, that's what I see
happening with a couple of my girlfriends. I even hear them make
comments like, "Maybe I should have homeschooled my kids," but then they
go right back to questioning my choice.
I think trying to "convince" others that unschooling is the right thing
to do is like trying to convince someone to change their religion or
something like that, just because we think they should. In my case,
unschooling was a discovery I had to make for myself, just like my being
born again was a discovery I had to make for myself. Embracing
unschooling was a process for me; a journey. How do you "explain" that
to someone else? Why should we be required to? We don't have to explain
to them why we go to the church we do, or why we shop at the grocery
store we do, etc., etc.
I also think that most people truly believe that public school education
in this country is in big trouble, but they are not willing to do
anything about it. And those of us who ARE willing to do something about
it, are threatening to them.
My two cents...
Denise, a tea lover in South Carolina
Stop by for a cup of tea ~ http://www.angelfire.com/sc/tealover
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/4/99 12:31:50 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
robinstark@... writes:
<<
What she is saying is that her opinion, which is based on NOTHING -- she
has already admitted the knows nothing about the subject -- is more valid
than my opinion, which is based on a lot of time and research and the love
of my children. Boy, the more I think about it, the madder I get.
she has made her choice and you have made yours. I'm sure she just wants the
best for her children too. If both of you can keep from being negative about
the other ones choices (which sounds hard because of course you will each
want to talk about your kids), it would seem a shame to sour such a long
friendship when everyone is just trying to do their best.
Good luck.
Nance
robinstark@... writes:
<<
What she is saying is that her opinion, which is based on NOTHING -- she
has already admitted the knows nothing about the subject -- is more valid
than my opinion, which is based on a lot of time and research and the love
of my children. Boy, the more I think about it, the madder I get.
>>I hope you have had a chance to relax after all that! It seems to me that
she has made her choice and you have made yours. I'm sure she just wants the
best for her children too. If both of you can keep from being negative about
the other ones choices (which sounds hard because of course you will each
want to talk about your kids), it would seem a shame to sour such a long
friendship when everyone is just trying to do their best.
Good luck.
Nance
[email protected]
Denise wrote:
<<I also think that most people truly believe that public school
education in this country is in big trouble, but they are not willing to
do anything about it. And those of us who ARE willing to do something
about it, are threatening to them.>>
I believe this so much and thought it was so well put, that I wanted
everyone to read it again!
Mary in FL
<<I also think that most people truly believe that public school
education in this country is in big trouble, but they are not willing to
do anything about it. And those of us who ARE willing to do something
about it, are threatening to them.>>
I believe this so much and thought it was so well put, that I wanted
everyone to read it again!
Mary in FL
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/3/99 4:31:55 PM PST, robinstark@... writes:
<< But before she told me this, in a previous email she said, "I guess the
main thing I'm concerned about is that they're going to miss out on social
things at school and that they won't have a varied curriculum. Also, how
do they get a diploma or credits for going to college? I don't know
anything about these things. What about proms, football games, etc.,
things that I really loved in school. Tell me." >>
Robin,
Even though she asked for explanations, it sounds like (unfortunantly) she
had her mind made up already. Its to bad.
Christina
<< But before she told me this, in a previous email she said, "I guess the
main thing I'm concerned about is that they're going to miss out on social
things at school and that they won't have a varied curriculum. Also, how
do they get a diploma or credits for going to college? I don't know
anything about these things. What about proms, football games, etc.,
things that I really loved in school. Tell me." >>
Robin,
Even though she asked for explanations, it sounds like (unfortunantly) she
had her mind made up already. Its to bad.
Christina
Robin Stark
> I'm sure she just wants theNance,
>best for her children too. If both of you can keep from being negative about
>the other ones choices (which sounds hard because of course you will each
>want to talk about your kids), it would seem a shame to sour such a long
>friendship when everyone is just trying to do their best.
I must have left out a puzzle piece here. My friend's only child is 32
years old, just got married. We are only talking about MY children, who are
her godchildren. So she has a vested interest in them (7 and 2 years). But
it doesn't sound like it because she's not even willing to learn one tidbit
of info regarding home/unschooling. She loves them, I know, so I would have
thought she would have taken an interest in this -- even if she disagreed.
I would have thought she would want to know more so she could THEN form her
opinion.
-----
>We don't have to explainDenise,
>to them why we go to the church we do, or why we shop at the grocery
>store we do, etc., etc.
>
>I also think that most people truly believe that public school education
>in this country is in big trouble, but they are not willing to do
>anything about it. And those of us who ARE willing to do something about
>it, are threatening to them.
I think you hit several nails on the head. I shouldn't be trying to
explain. I'm going to force myself to stop that right away. And yes, I
think people are scared or threatened when we show we CAN do something
different than the norm. My friend is from the school of "Well, we've
always done it this way, so we will continue to do it this way." That
doesn't make it right, though. I sound confident, don't I? I'm not. But I
will work on that, too.
-----
>I am so sorry cus i know it must hurt.Andi,
You are right here. I guess I'm not so much mad as hurt. Although, I think
that's a fine line. Yes, she hurt my feelings when she showed me she didn't
give a crap for my opinion. All this time I thought we were on equal
footing, ond now I guess she's always been too smart for me, or so she
apparently thinks (has thought). I know we will have to speak on the phone
to work this out, but I don't feel like it now. I need some time with my
thoughts.
- - - - - - - -
Robin Stark
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/3/99 4:32:02 PM PST, robinstark@... writes:
<<
So I tried to tell her. I sent her one article from the free emails from
the Home Ed Magazine. ONE article. I was going to try to spoonfeed her. She
couldn't even read that. She knows absolutely NOTHING about the subject,
but she has already formed her opinion. I'm telling you, I 'bout crapped my
drawers. I have know this woman longer than I've known my husband (16
years), and I never knew she was so narrow-minded. I'm at a loss for what
to do because it's going to be hard for me to get over her closed mind.
What she is saying is that her opinion, which is based on NOTHING -- she
has already admitted the knows nothing about the subject -- is more valid
than my opinion, which is based on a lot of time and research and the love
of my children. Boy, the more I think about it, the madder I get.
Robin Stark
homeschooling until she has read at LEAST as many books and articles on the
subject as you have. An informed, negative opinion is one thing. Choosing
ignorance is another. Shut the door on her opinions now and save yourself
some grief.
Mary
<<
So I tried to tell her. I sent her one article from the free emails from
the Home Ed Magazine. ONE article. I was going to try to spoonfeed her. She
couldn't even read that. She knows absolutely NOTHING about the subject,
but she has already formed her opinion. I'm telling you, I 'bout crapped my
drawers. I have know this woman longer than I've known my husband (16
years), and I never knew she was so narrow-minded. I'm at a loss for what
to do because it's going to be hard for me to get over her closed mind.
What she is saying is that her opinion, which is based on NOTHING -- she
has already admitted the knows nothing about the subject -- is more valid
than my opinion, which is based on a lot of time and research and the love
of my children. Boy, the more I think about it, the madder I get.
Robin Stark
>>Robink, you need to tell her that she can NOT offer HER opinions on
homeschooling until she has read at LEAST as many books and articles on the
subject as you have. An informed, negative opinion is one thing. Choosing
ignorance is another. Shut the door on her opinions now and save yourself
some grief.
Mary
Diana Asberry
Denise:
You are RIGHT ON! I've been mainly lurking, but had to express my thoughts
on your statements.
(I'm feeling the need to qualify myself, since I haven't introduced myself,
yet: I come from a psychology back-ground & as a matter of fact, my MIL is
a psychologist-who has been quite supportive of our parenting/educating
decisions...)
Anyway
YES, these people see our choices as a threat to them. They will not be
convinced. Don't even bother trying. They have been in denial of their
abilities to choose options outside of their realm. They are threated that
we may feel superior, like they're being judged--so they get defensive and
judge us. (...the best defense is a good offense...someone once said)
They are more comfortable with feeling helpless, not questioning authority,
and acting like they can't be part of the solution to what ails this
society. (the "boys will be boys" mentality when their child bullies
someone...)
They take comfort in their denial that the horrible acts among this
country's high schools, will never happen to them.... (today, maybe...)
Diana Asberry
someone else take control, charge, and power over their life...... it forces
them to look truthfully at their own life.
I think trying to "convince" others that unschooling is the right thing
to do is like trying to convince someone to change their religion or
something like that, just because we think they should. .......Embracing
unschooling was a process for me; a journey. How do you "explain" that
to someone else? Why should we be required to? We don't have to explain
to them why we go to the church we do, or why we shop at the grocery
store we do, etc., etc.
I also think that most people truly believe that public school education
in this country is in big trouble, but they are not willing to do
anything about it. And those of us who ARE willing to do something about
it, are threatening to them.
My two cents...
Denise, a tea lover in South Carolina
Stop by for a cup of tea ~ http://www.angelfire.com/sc/tealover
----------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
You are RIGHT ON! I've been mainly lurking, but had to express my thoughts
on your statements.
(I'm feeling the need to qualify myself, since I haven't introduced myself,
yet: I come from a psychology back-ground & as a matter of fact, my MIL is
a psychologist-who has been quite supportive of our parenting/educating
decisions...)
Anyway
YES, these people see our choices as a threat to them. They will not be
convinced. Don't even bother trying. They have been in denial of their
abilities to choose options outside of their realm. They are threated that
we may feel superior, like they're being judged--so they get defensive and
judge us. (...the best defense is a good offense...someone once said)
They are more comfortable with feeling helpless, not questioning authority,
and acting like they can't be part of the solution to what ails this
society. (the "boys will be boys" mentality when their child bullies
someone...)
They take comfort in their denial that the horrible acts among this
country's high schools, will never happen to them.... (today, maybe...)
Diana Asberry
>>>IMHO, the reason many people (like your friend) are so angered at ourunschooling decision is because deep inside, they are jealous at seeing
someone else take control, charge, and power over their life...... it forces
them to look truthfully at their own life.
I think trying to "convince" others that unschooling is the right thing
to do is like trying to convince someone to change their religion or
something like that, just because we think they should. .......Embracing
unschooling was a process for me; a journey. How do you "explain" that
to someone else? Why should we be required to? We don't have to explain
to them why we go to the church we do, or why we shop at the grocery
store we do, etc., etc.
I also think that most people truly believe that public school education
in this country is in big trouble, but they are not willing to do
anything about it. And those of us who ARE willing to do something about
it, are threatening to them.
My two cents...
Denise, a tea lover in South Carolina
Stop by for a cup of tea ~ http://www.angelfire.com/sc/tealover
----------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 05:32 PM 6/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
I hear you. I have a very small group of friends here, consisting of the
other mothers in my playgroup. I don't make friends easily owing to some
shyness and my fear of judgement or rejection, although I am (I believe) a
fairly articulate and intelligent person, and I know I am a loyal and
thoughtful friend. It took me a long time to get to know these women, and
we are still mostly more acquaintances than friends. Today I shared my
excitement with them about unschooling and all the information I was
discovering on the internet. They told me they thought the "lack of
accountability" for Idaho homeschoolers was "awful" and that many people
would probably not teach their children the basic necessities. They went
on to say "How are you going to socialize you kids when there are not many
other homeschoolers around here?" I tried to explain that there are other,
non-homeschool related social outlets (like this playgroup!!) scouts, youth
groups, 4H, on and on. They nodded, but seemed dissatisfied.
I dropped the subject after a few more unsuccessful minutes of trying to
help them see the positives of unschooling. I tried to tell them that I
believe that many children have been failed by the ps system. They told me
that was "not true", even though I, myself, am a case in point and I know a
number of other adults, and kids now in ps who are similarly affected.
Like my next door neighbors, and my niece and nephew to name just a few.
I am really disappointed! I don't get to go out much and talk to other
Mothers or have any social outlets because my children are so little and
can't keep up with a very large outing and their nap and feeding schedules
often vary depending on a number of factors. Also it's hard to do anything
when both hands are occupied with one toddler who runs away laughing at
every opportunity and one who is still very unsteady on his feet and must
usually be carried. The other moms in the playgroup take their children to
kinder-gym and kinder-music and stuff like that. But I don't see a need
for that, and we have plenty of fun right here at home, or in the local
playground. I am desperate to meet someone around here with similar age
kids and similar interests in homeschooling/unschooling. We are not
religiously affiliated, and the in the large Mormon and fundamental
Chirstian population here it is hard to find friends who won't judge you or
try to convert you.
:( feeling blue! (Not Aquatinted, Marti.)
Nanci in Idaho
>From: Robin Stark <robinstark@...>valid
>
>I had an experience this morning where my best friend, I'm at a loss for what
>to do because it's going to be hard for me to get over her closed mind.
>
>What she is saying is that her opinion, which is based on NOTHING is more
>than my opinion, which is based on a lot of time and research and the loveRobin,
>of my children.
>Robin Stark
I hear you. I have a very small group of friends here, consisting of the
other mothers in my playgroup. I don't make friends easily owing to some
shyness and my fear of judgement or rejection, although I am (I believe) a
fairly articulate and intelligent person, and I know I am a loyal and
thoughtful friend. It took me a long time to get to know these women, and
we are still mostly more acquaintances than friends. Today I shared my
excitement with them about unschooling and all the information I was
discovering on the internet. They told me they thought the "lack of
accountability" for Idaho homeschoolers was "awful" and that many people
would probably not teach their children the basic necessities. They went
on to say "How are you going to socialize you kids when there are not many
other homeschoolers around here?" I tried to explain that there are other,
non-homeschool related social outlets (like this playgroup!!) scouts, youth
groups, 4H, on and on. They nodded, but seemed dissatisfied.
I dropped the subject after a few more unsuccessful minutes of trying to
help them see the positives of unschooling. I tried to tell them that I
believe that many children have been failed by the ps system. They told me
that was "not true", even though I, myself, am a case in point and I know a
number of other adults, and kids now in ps who are similarly affected.
Like my next door neighbors, and my niece and nephew to name just a few.
I am really disappointed! I don't get to go out much and talk to other
Mothers or have any social outlets because my children are so little and
can't keep up with a very large outing and their nap and feeding schedules
often vary depending on a number of factors. Also it's hard to do anything
when both hands are occupied with one toddler who runs away laughing at
every opportunity and one who is still very unsteady on his feet and must
usually be carried. The other moms in the playgroup take their children to
kinder-gym and kinder-music and stuff like that. But I don't see a need
for that, and we have plenty of fun right here at home, or in the local
playground. I am desperate to meet someone around here with similar age
kids and similar interests in homeschooling/unschooling. We are not
religiously affiliated, and the in the large Mormon and fundamental
Chirstian population here it is hard to find friends who won't judge you or
try to convert you.
:( feeling blue! (Not Aquatinted, Marti.)
Nanci in Idaho
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/3/1999 8:56:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
tn-k4of5@... writes:
<< :( feeling blue! (Not Aquatinted, Marti.)
I am going over to the AOL homeschool forum and see if I can find someone for
you to play with in TF. There MUST be others out there!!! I know that in
Boise we had a couple of different unschooling/nonmorman groups to choose
from. I will let you know what I find out.....
Marti in Wa
tn-k4of5@... writes:
<< :( feeling blue! (Not Aquatinted, Marti.)
>>I am just NOT going to live that one down am I? :o)
I am going over to the AOL homeschool forum and see if I can find someone for
you to play with in TF. There MUST be others out there!!! I know that in
Boise we had a couple of different unschooling/nonmorman groups to choose
from. I will let you know what I find out.....
Marti in Wa
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
Gee thanks Marti!
I am curious about anyone here who chats using AOL online or ICQ. I use
both, and always have them on when I am online, so I can be contacted. It
helps me deal with my 'emotional isolation' if I can blow off steam
chatting with folks in the evening. I find it really helpful for dealing
with adoption issues when my adoption aqaintances are online and I am sure
I would fine it the same for unschooling friends.
It would be nice to have some folks to call friends again. It has been a
long time, with lots of moving, getting married and having babies, and all
the friends I used to have things in common with don't have time for me
now, in their professional lives. I really miss having folks over for a
relaxing evening of adult conversation and good food. I grow weary of
conversations about monsters, dragons, A Bug's Life, hockey, soccer, etc
from a two year old's perspective! I feel like I am regressing!
Nanci K. in Idaho
I am curious about anyone here who chats using AOL online or ICQ. I use
both, and always have them on when I am online, so I can be contacted. It
helps me deal with my 'emotional isolation' if I can blow off steam
chatting with folks in the evening. I find it really helpful for dealing
with adoption issues when my adoption aqaintances are online and I am sure
I would fine it the same for unschooling friends.
It would be nice to have some folks to call friends again. It has been a
long time, with lots of moving, getting married and having babies, and all
the friends I used to have things in common with don't have time for me
now, in their professional lives. I really miss having folks over for a
relaxing evening of adult conversation and good food. I grow weary of
conversations about monsters, dragons, A Bug's Life, hockey, soccer, etc
from a two year old's perspective! I feel like I am regressing!
Nanci K. in Idaho
julie1264
Robin, Nanci and Others:
Would it help either of you to know in a sense that your are the better person? I always try to think that way when I run into opposition like this.
I came to this situation when we were having our kids. Why didn't I have an ultrasound or a couple of them?? What childbirth with no epidural?? No epitsomy(sp?)??? Breastfeeding??? Breastfeeding past six weeks?? Not going back to work??? What about your great job?? No babysitters??? How can you stand the kids all day??? Homeschool??? The list goes on...
I am sure these are all things all of you have heard in the past. I have gotten past the point of defending myself and almost shrug my shoulders and walk away. My dh and I have come to the conclusion the WE GET IT!!! We have to grow and nuture our kids, not give birth, start them in early school programs not necessairly for the benefit of learning but just to get them out of our hair. We have to be involved in everything they do.
I have had my dd in a kid's music class since she was 3 months(she is now 2) which she just loves. The other parents were discussing, pre-preschool and why didn't the park district have more classes for kids that weren't parent involved? My mouth dropped. They are only 2!! How can you not be involved?? One mom was saying that she was trying to figure a way to get her ds in prescool early just to have more time to herself.
Quite frankly. the thought of preschool sort of made me sad. I have seen my daughter progress so much over the first two years of her life, could I let someone else have the privlege of seeing her draw picture of her family, and etc. I guess that is why the idea of homeschooling came so naturally to us. God gave us these children to grow, not manufactor like a pair of shoes and hope the person who gets them treats them well.
I think that is the country's biggest problem right now, kids are manufactored not grown. Be confident in knowing that you are growing good children who are going to be responsible active particpants of future society. It is the other peoples' children you have to worry about.
Hope this helps...
I will get off of my soap box now!!!
Julie G.
Would it help either of you to know in a sense that your are the better person? I always try to think that way when I run into opposition like this.
I came to this situation when we were having our kids. Why didn't I have an ultrasound or a couple of them?? What childbirth with no epidural?? No epitsomy(sp?)??? Breastfeeding??? Breastfeeding past six weeks?? Not going back to work??? What about your great job?? No babysitters??? How can you stand the kids all day??? Homeschool??? The list goes on...
I am sure these are all things all of you have heard in the past. I have gotten past the point of defending myself and almost shrug my shoulders and walk away. My dh and I have come to the conclusion the WE GET IT!!! We have to grow and nuture our kids, not give birth, start them in early school programs not necessairly for the benefit of learning but just to get them out of our hair. We have to be involved in everything they do.
I have had my dd in a kid's music class since she was 3 months(she is now 2) which she just loves. The other parents were discussing, pre-preschool and why didn't the park district have more classes for kids that weren't parent involved? My mouth dropped. They are only 2!! How can you not be involved?? One mom was saying that she was trying to figure a way to get her ds in prescool early just to have more time to herself.
Quite frankly. the thought of preschool sort of made me sad. I have seen my daughter progress so much over the first two years of her life, could I let someone else have the privlege of seeing her draw picture of her family, and etc. I guess that is why the idea of homeschooling came so naturally to us. God gave us these children to grow, not manufactor like a pair of shoes and hope the person who gets them treats them well.
I think that is the country's biggest problem right now, kids are manufactored not grown. Be confident in knowing that you are growing good children who are going to be responsible active particpants of future society. It is the other peoples' children you have to worry about.
Hope this helps...
I will get off of my soap box now!!!
Julie G.
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 07:12 AM 6/4/99 PDT, you wrote:
Thanks for the sympathy. However, I find it difficult to manage all my
stress relief, shoulder crying and comiserating, as well as all my
comraderie and sharing of mutual excitement and ideas, over the internet.
I don't know anyone in person who is 'like minded.'
I like to get together for tea with girlfriends while my kids are sleeping
(not happening) or go out to lunch together at a little cafe (not
happening) or have couples and single friends over for dinner and
conversation (not happening.) I am also a very physically affectionate
person and I enjoy being tactile with people. I like to hug my friends and
be close to them when we are talking and sharing. But I don't have any
good friends here like that. We moved too recently and I am too shy and
cautious with strangers in person. The ladies in the Playgroup seem to be
maintaining their emotional comfort distance, and my husband is always
nagging me to make some better friends, as he knows I need them.
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: Diana Asberry <diasberry@...>I've learned only to share my excitement with like minded/open
>minded friends (who won't feel intimidated).Diana (I love your name, by the way!)
Thanks for the sympathy. However, I find it difficult to manage all my
stress relief, shoulder crying and comiserating, as well as all my
comraderie and sharing of mutual excitement and ideas, over the internet.
I don't know anyone in person who is 'like minded.'
I like to get together for tea with girlfriends while my kids are sleeping
(not happening) or go out to lunch together at a little cafe (not
happening) or have couples and single friends over for dinner and
conversation (not happening.) I am also a very physically affectionate
person and I enjoy being tactile with people. I like to hug my friends and
be close to them when we are talking and sharing. But I don't have any
good friends here like that. We moved too recently and I am too shy and
cautious with strangers in person. The ladies in the Playgroup seem to be
maintaining their emotional comfort distance, and my husband is always
nagging me to make some better friends, as he knows I need them.
Nanci K. in Idaho
Olivia
Hello to all:
I am new to this list so I guess I should just jump in and introduce
myself. My name is Olivia and I live in Mass. We will "officially" be
homeschooling/unschooling one 6yo at the end of kindergarten this June. In
reality, we will simply be going back to the kinds of fun things we had
time to do before the intrusion of school schedules. I am a little nervous
about mentioning to people that my son will not be going to first grade in
the fall; I hate having to explain our reasons over and over again to that
puzzled or disapproving look on people's faces. Also, I worry about my
only-child son not having many non-adult playmates available once public
school resumes in September. We are working on finding similarly-minded
families in the area.
I wasn't going to post just yet, but Julie's comments about "manufactured"
children struck a chord with me. While sitting on the sidelines of my son's
sporting events and on a recent school field trip, I had the chance to hear
lots of conversations about how "busy" kids are: that is, how they are
shuttled from one place to another while parents work. Some kids never see
a parent from 7AM to 7PM. A very large number of my son's kindergarten
classmates this year went right to day-care from school. (This makes it
hard to have friends outside of school if you don't go to daycare.)
I am a stay-at-home mom (a rarity around here), and people always ask when
I will be going back to work, or say they couldn't stand to be at home all
day with their kids. I began to feel like something was wrong with me
because I wanted to have my son close to home and felt like something was
not right about turning over my little boy to an anonymous school system
that is not welcoming to parents in the classroom. I am sure that other
parents must feel isolated from their children once they go to school, but
they are told by society that they have to learn to "let go". I thank a
friend of mine for suggesting the idea of homeschooling last fall. Like a
lot of people here, I started by searching the internet and read my first
Holt book "How Children Learn" and it was a breath of fresh air. I know, in
my heart, that there is nothing wrong with wanting to be home with my son,
even if other people try to convince me otherwise, especially if that is
what he wants too. I am glad to be able to give him the option of learning
outside of school. I wonder how many kids who say they like school do so
only to please parents, or because school is better than the alternative of
all-day day-care or being home alone.
OK, thanks for sharing the soap-box! LOL
(Next time I'll try for not so long and rambling!)
Olivia
I am new to this list so I guess I should just jump in and introduce
myself. My name is Olivia and I live in Mass. We will "officially" be
homeschooling/unschooling one 6yo at the end of kindergarten this June. In
reality, we will simply be going back to the kinds of fun things we had
time to do before the intrusion of school schedules. I am a little nervous
about mentioning to people that my son will not be going to first grade in
the fall; I hate having to explain our reasons over and over again to that
puzzled or disapproving look on people's faces. Also, I worry about my
only-child son not having many non-adult playmates available once public
school resumes in September. We are working on finding similarly-minded
families in the area.
I wasn't going to post just yet, but Julie's comments about "manufactured"
children struck a chord with me. While sitting on the sidelines of my son's
sporting events and on a recent school field trip, I had the chance to hear
lots of conversations about how "busy" kids are: that is, how they are
shuttled from one place to another while parents work. Some kids never see
a parent from 7AM to 7PM. A very large number of my son's kindergarten
classmates this year went right to day-care from school. (This makes it
hard to have friends outside of school if you don't go to daycare.)
I am a stay-at-home mom (a rarity around here), and people always ask when
I will be going back to work, or say they couldn't stand to be at home all
day with their kids. I began to feel like something was wrong with me
because I wanted to have my son close to home and felt like something was
not right about turning over my little boy to an anonymous school system
that is not welcoming to parents in the classroom. I am sure that other
parents must feel isolated from their children once they go to school, but
they are told by society that they have to learn to "let go". I thank a
friend of mine for suggesting the idea of homeschooling last fall. Like a
lot of people here, I started by searching the internet and read my first
Holt book "How Children Learn" and it was a breath of fresh air. I know, in
my heart, that there is nothing wrong with wanting to be home with my son,
even if other people try to convince me otherwise, especially if that is
what he wants too. I am glad to be able to give him the option of learning
outside of school. I wonder how many kids who say they like school do so
only to please parents, or because school is better than the alternative of
all-day day-care or being home alone.
OK, thanks for sharing the soap-box! LOL
(Next time I'll try for not so long and rambling!)
Olivia
claudia partick
Nanci K.
I am on icq and would love to talk to other unschooler one on one. my email
address is pinintree@... email me directly and we can exchange
icq #s.
claudia in kansas
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Friends(?)/Family
I am on icq and would love to talk to other unschooler one on one. my email
address is pinintree@... email me directly and we can exchange
icq #s.
claudia in kansas
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Friends(?)/Family
>From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
>
>Gee thanks Marti!
>I am curious about anyone here who chats using AOL online or ICQ. I use
>both, and always have them on when I am online, so I can be contacted. It
>helps me deal with my 'emotional isolation' if I can blow off steam
>chatting with folks in the evening. I find it really helpful for dealing
>with adoption issues when my adoption aqaintances are online and I am sure
>I would fine it the same for unschooling friends.
>
>It would be nice to have some folks to call friends again. It has been a
>long time, with lots of moving, getting married and having babies, and all
>the friends I used to have things in common with don't have time for me
>now, in their professional lives. I really miss having folks over for a
>relaxing evening of adult conversation and good food. I grow weary of
>conversations about monsters, dragons, A Bug's Life, hockey, soccer, etc
>from a two year old's perspective! I feel like I am regressing!
>
>Nanci K. in Idaho
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>How has ONElist changed your life?
>Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/4/99 8:59:02 AM PST, liv2learn@... writes:
<< I know, in my heart, that there is nothing wrong with wanting to be home
with my son, even if other people try to convince me otherwise, especially if
that is
what he wants too. I am glad to be able to give him the option of learning
outside of school. >>
I agree.
Most of my friends, are Stay At Home moms.....so I have lots of support. But
a lot of my husbands family don't understand. I exspecially hate it when
they ask "well what do you do all day?". Like I am sitting on couch,
watching soaps, eating bon-bons. (okay I admit to watching soaps when I
can......<g>).
Anyway, after many years of being home I am finally am a position where I can
state that this is the ONLY place I want to be and its best for MY kids.
Christina
<< I know, in my heart, that there is nothing wrong with wanting to be home
with my son, even if other people try to convince me otherwise, especially if
that is
what he wants too. I am glad to be able to give him the option of learning
outside of school. >>
I agree.
Most of my friends, are Stay At Home moms.....so I have lots of support. But
a lot of my husbands family don't understand. I exspecially hate it when
they ask "well what do you do all day?". Like I am sitting on couch,
watching soaps, eating bon-bons. (okay I admit to watching soaps when I
can......<g>).
Anyway, after many years of being home I am finally am a position where I can
state that this is the ONLY place I want to be and its best for MY kids.
Christina
Diana Asberry
Hi Olivia! Where in Mass.? We live on the Seacoast of NH.
Diana Asberry
diasberry@...
----Original Message Follows----
From: Olivia <liv2learn@...>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Friends(?)/Family
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 12:57:00 -0400
From: Olivia <liv2learn@...>
Hello to all:
I am new to this list so I guess I should just jump in and introduce
myself. My name is Olivia and I live in Mass. We will "officially" be
homeschooling/unschooling one 6yo at the end of kindergarten this June. In
reality, we will simply be going back to the kinds of fun things we had
time to do before the intrusion of school schedules. I am a little nervous
about mentioning to people that my son will not be going to first grade in
the fall; I hate having to explain our reasons over and over again to that
puzzled or disapproving look on people's faces. Also, I worry about my
only-child son not having many non-adult playmates available once public
school resumes in September. We are working on finding similarly-minded
families in the area.
I wasn't going to post just yet, but Julie's comments about "manufactured"
children struck a chord with me. While sitting on the sidelines of my son's
sporting events and on a recent school field trip, I had the chance to hear
lots of conversations about how "busy" kids are: that is, how they are
shuttled from one place to another while parents work. Some kids never see
a parent from 7AM to 7PM. A very large number of my son's kindergarten
classmates this year went right to day-care from school. (This makes it
hard to have friends outside of school if you don't go to daycare.)
I am a stay-at-home mom (a rarity around here), and people always ask when
I will be going back to work, or say they couldn't stand to be at home all
day with their kids. I began to feel like something was wrong with me
because I wanted to have my son close to home and felt like something was
not right about turning over my little boy to an anonymous school system
that is not welcoming to parents in the classroom. I am sure that other
parents must feel isolated from their children once they go to school, but
they are told by society that they have to learn to "let go". I thank a
friend of mine for suggesting the idea of homeschooling last fall. Like a
lot of people here, I started by searching the internet and read my first
Holt book "How Children Learn" and it was a breath of fresh air. I know, in
my heart, that there is nothing wrong with wanting to be home with my son,
even if other people try to convince me otherwise, especially if that is
what he wants too. I am glad to be able to give him the option of learning
outside of school. I wonder how many kids who say they like school do so
only to please parents, or because school is better than the alternative of
all-day day-care or being home alone.
OK, thanks for sharing the soap-box! LOL
(Next time I'll try for not so long and rambling!)
Olivia
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend?
http://www.onelist.com
Come join one of nearly 160,000 e-mail communities at ONElist!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check it out!
http://www.unschooling.com
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Diana Asberry
diasberry@...
----Original Message Follows----
From: Olivia <liv2learn@...>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Friends(?)/Family
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 12:57:00 -0400
From: Olivia <liv2learn@...>
Hello to all:
I am new to this list so I guess I should just jump in and introduce
myself. My name is Olivia and I live in Mass. We will "officially" be
homeschooling/unschooling one 6yo at the end of kindergarten this June. In
reality, we will simply be going back to the kinds of fun things we had
time to do before the intrusion of school schedules. I am a little nervous
about mentioning to people that my son will not be going to first grade in
the fall; I hate having to explain our reasons over and over again to that
puzzled or disapproving look on people's faces. Also, I worry about my
only-child son not having many non-adult playmates available once public
school resumes in September. We are working on finding similarly-minded
families in the area.
I wasn't going to post just yet, but Julie's comments about "manufactured"
children struck a chord with me. While sitting on the sidelines of my son's
sporting events and on a recent school field trip, I had the chance to hear
lots of conversations about how "busy" kids are: that is, how they are
shuttled from one place to another while parents work. Some kids never see
a parent from 7AM to 7PM. A very large number of my son's kindergarten
classmates this year went right to day-care from school. (This makes it
hard to have friends outside of school if you don't go to daycare.)
I am a stay-at-home mom (a rarity around here), and people always ask when
I will be going back to work, or say they couldn't stand to be at home all
day with their kids. I began to feel like something was wrong with me
because I wanted to have my son close to home and felt like something was
not right about turning over my little boy to an anonymous school system
that is not welcoming to parents in the classroom. I am sure that other
parents must feel isolated from their children once they go to school, but
they are told by society that they have to learn to "let go". I thank a
friend of mine for suggesting the idea of homeschooling last fall. Like a
lot of people here, I started by searching the internet and read my first
Holt book "How Children Learn" and it was a breath of fresh air. I know, in
my heart, that there is nothing wrong with wanting to be home with my son,
even if other people try to convince me otherwise, especially if that is
what he wants too. I am glad to be able to give him the option of learning
outside of school. I wonder how many kids who say they like school do so
only to please parents, or because school is better than the alternative of
all-day day-care or being home alone.
OK, thanks for sharing the soap-box! LOL
(Next time I'll try for not so long and rambling!)
Olivia
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend?
http://www.onelist.com
Come join one of nearly 160,000 e-mail communities at ONElist!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check it out!
http://www.unschooling.com
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
[email protected]
Nanci,
I am a great one for chatting on aol. Love parent soup chat rooms. Course,
since this list has been up, I haven't had time to chat!! But hey, put me on
your buddy list and give me a holler!
Teresa
I am a great one for chatting on aol. Love parent soup chat rooms. Course,
since this list has been up, I haven't had time to chat!! But hey, put me on
your buddy list and give me a holler!
Teresa
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/4/99 11:58:55 AM EST, liv2learn@... writes:
<< . I know, in
my heart, that there is nothing wrong with wanting to be home with my son,
even if other people try to convince me otherwise, especially if that is
what he wants too >>
Olivia,
Hi and welcome! You are so right about not letting anyone convince you
otherwise! Do what is right for you and your family. I have never had to
defend myself about home schooling, everyone I meet wants to know about it
and how they can get started. But, I know some people that do and I really
feel sorry that that has to happen. I know people that can't wait for school
to start to "get rid" of their kids . Can you imagine how their kids must
feel to hear their parents say that, or see them type that in the chat
rooms? It really makes me sad. I am so thankful that I have a husband that
is supportive, as I am sure all of us are!
Anyway, hang in there
Teresa
<< . I know, in
my heart, that there is nothing wrong with wanting to be home with my son,
even if other people try to convince me otherwise, especially if that is
what he wants too >>
Olivia,
Hi and welcome! You are so right about not letting anyone convince you
otherwise! Do what is right for you and your family. I have never had to
defend myself about home schooling, everyone I meet wants to know about it
and how they can get started. But, I know some people that do and I really
feel sorry that that has to happen. I know people that can't wait for school
to start to "get rid" of their kids . Can you imagine how their kids must
feel to hear their parents say that, or see them type that in the chat
rooms? It really makes me sad. I am so thankful that I have a husband that
is supportive, as I am sure all of us are!
Anyway, hang in there
Teresa
Olivia
Christina:
I do hate that "what do you do all day" question, as if home maintenance
and raising a child haven't any value. At least by staying home we have the
opportunity to know what our child is doing all day. That is important to me.
(And I can honestly say I haven't eaten a single bon-bon! LOL)
Olivia
I do hate that "what do you do all day" question, as if home maintenance
and raising a child haven't any value. At least by staying home we have the
opportunity to know what our child is doing all day. That is important to me.
(And I can honestly say I haven't eaten a single bon-bon! LOL)
Olivia
>Most of my friends, are Stay At Home moms.....so I have lots of support. But
>a lot of my husbands family don't understand. I exspecially hate it when
>they ask "well what do you do all day?". Like I am sitting on couch,
>watching soaps, eating bon-bons. (okay I admit to watching soaps when I
>can......<g>).
>
>Anyway, after many years of being home I am finally am a position where I can
>state that this is the ONLY place I want to be and its best for MY kids.
>Christina
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Looking to expand your world?
>http://www.onelist.com
>ONElist has nearly 160,000 e-mail communities from which to chose!
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
Olivia
>Diana:I am about 30 minutes south of Framingham. Near Hopkinton where the Boston
Marathon starts. How has your homeschooling experience been in NH? It's
nice to meet another New Englander here on this list!
Olivia
>From: Diana Asberry <diasberry@...>-
>
>Hi Olivia! Where in Mass.? We live on the Seacoast of NH.
>Diana Asberry
>diasberry@...
>
>
Olivia
Teresa:
Thanks for the welcome. I find it so much more relaxing to spend time with
people who "get it"...that is, can understand my feelings without too much
explanation. Unfortunately, there will always be times, like when we run
into a neighbor or someone from a former school, when I'll have to explain
why my son isn't going to school anymore. I should just print up a sheet of
questions and answers ahead of time and pass them out at the beginning of a
conversation. LOL Yes, I feel badly for kids whose parents talk about them
in such negative ways, especially while the kids are present. Adults don't
think that kids are listening, but then you hear those comments repeated
later by the kids: obviously they were tuning in quite clearly.
Olivia
Thanks for the welcome. I find it so much more relaxing to spend time with
people who "get it"...that is, can understand my feelings without too much
explanation. Unfortunately, there will always be times, like when we run
into a neighbor or someone from a former school, when I'll have to explain
why my son isn't going to school anymore. I should just print up a sheet of
questions and answers ahead of time and pass them out at the beginning of a
conversation. LOL Yes, I feel badly for kids whose parents talk about them
in such negative ways, especially while the kids are present. Adults don't
think that kids are listening, but then you hear those comments repeated
later by the kids: obviously they were tuning in quite clearly.
Olivia
>Olivia,
>Hi and welcome! You are so right about not letting anyone convince you
>otherwise! Do what is right for you and your family. I have never had to
>defend myself about home schooling, everyone I meet wants to know about it
>and how they can get started. But, I know some people that do and I really
>feel sorry that that has to happen. I know people that can't wait for school
>to start to "get rid" of their kids . Can you imagine how their kids must
>feel to hear their parents say that, or see them type that in the chat
>rooms? It really makes me sad. I am so thankful that I have a husband that
>is supportive, as I am sure all of us are!
>Anyway, hang in there
>Teresa
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Congratulations to 'Voice-Diary,' our latest ONElist of the Week.
>http://www.onelist.com
>Visit our homepage and share with us how ONElist is changing YOUR life!
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/4/99 10:39:05 PM EST, liv2learn@... writes:
<< Thanks for the welcome. I find it so much more relaxing to spend time with
people who "get it"...that is, can understand my feelings without too much
explanation >>
O ; > I Know!!!
Teresa
<< Thanks for the welcome. I find it so much more relaxing to spend time with
people who "get it"...that is, can understand my feelings without too much
explanation >>
O ; > I Know!!!
Teresa
Olivia
Teresa:
About being with people who "get it" philosophically:
A friend who homeschools her 4 children called today to say how
uncomfortable she is finding it to attend events with pre-homeschool
playgroups and friends who have just found out she is homeschooling. She
said she feels like a circus curiosity! People always turn the conversation
towards the HS subject and away from general chit-chat. Some people have
treated her homeschooling like a situation from which she needs to be
rescued. They talk about getting her help and getting her son back to
school as if "why would she want to be with her kids all day!" Also, they
discuss all this in front of her very perceptive kids, who later ask what
that person was talking about. She feels that people put her oldest son
(almost 6yo) in a very uncomfortable position when they ask about school,
what grade he is in (he said "I don't know" - they don't follow grades),
or ask him why he doesn't want to go to school. Do we really need to find a
whole new set of acquaintances when homeschooling? Hopefully not, but it
would make it so much easier to start from scratch!
Olivia
About being with people who "get it" philosophically:
A friend who homeschools her 4 children called today to say how
uncomfortable she is finding it to attend events with pre-homeschool
playgroups and friends who have just found out she is homeschooling. She
said she feels like a circus curiosity! People always turn the conversation
towards the HS subject and away from general chit-chat. Some people have
treated her homeschooling like a situation from which she needs to be
rescued. They talk about getting her help and getting her son back to
school as if "why would she want to be with her kids all day!" Also, they
discuss all this in front of her very perceptive kids, who later ask what
that person was talking about. She feels that people put her oldest son
(almost 6yo) in a very uncomfortable position when they ask about school,
what grade he is in (he said "I don't know" - they don't follow grades),
or ask him why he doesn't want to go to school. Do we really need to find a
whole new set of acquaintances when homeschooling? Hopefully not, but it
would make it so much easier to start from scratch!
Olivia
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/4/99 11:49:37 PM EST, liv2learn@... writes:
<< A friend who homeschools her 4 children called today to say how
uncomfortable she is finding it to attend events with pre-homeschool
playgroups and friends who have just found out she is homeschooling. She
said she feels like a circus curiosity! People always turn the conversation
towards the HS subject and away from general chit-chat >>
Olivia,
wow, I was just about to go to bed, but reading your note got me!
I guess it all depends on how you look at things. I find that I love it when
people want to talk to me about homeschooling. I guess I am a teacher at
heart, but I love to help newbies. No one ever helped me, I just sorta had
to fend for myself, guess that is why I am not much into joining groups.
Even new people to chat rooms on AOL. I like to help, someone did take the
time to help me learn how to download and play wavs, and new people never
know how. Anyway, my point, I would find this a great teaching experience
instead of feeling weird. I so enjoy what I do that I can't resist talking
about it. So....., no, I don't think we need to get new friends, just look
at the situation in a different light. If it still bothers you, or rather
your friend, then you might want to get new friends!!
Am I ratteling here? It is late, I am dead, I apologize!
nite,
Teresa ; >
<< A friend who homeschools her 4 children called today to say how
uncomfortable she is finding it to attend events with pre-homeschool
playgroups and friends who have just found out she is homeschooling. She
said she feels like a circus curiosity! People always turn the conversation
towards the HS subject and away from general chit-chat >>
Olivia,
wow, I was just about to go to bed, but reading your note got me!
I guess it all depends on how you look at things. I find that I love it when
people want to talk to me about homeschooling. I guess I am a teacher at
heart, but I love to help newbies. No one ever helped me, I just sorta had
to fend for myself, guess that is why I am not much into joining groups.
Even new people to chat rooms on AOL. I like to help, someone did take the
time to help me learn how to download and play wavs, and new people never
know how. Anyway, my point, I would find this a great teaching experience
instead of feeling weird. I so enjoy what I do that I can't resist talking
about it. So....., no, I don't think we need to get new friends, just look
at the situation in a different light. If it still bothers you, or rather
your friend, then you might want to get new friends!!
Am I ratteling here? It is late, I am dead, I apologize!
nite,
Teresa ; >
Olivia
Teresa:
Of course I had to check my mail before I went to bed! I think my friend
is not having people ask about homeschooling in a pleasant,
information-seeking way, but rather it's putting her in a defensive
position. She doesn't want to have to spend all of her visit, every visit,
explaining that they are really doing ok, that the kids are happy, and this
is truly the best option for their family. Sometimes it's nice just to have
friendly conversation. I guess she's been having some negative responses
from friends, and in front of her kids. We love to talk about homeschooling
to interested parties, but always defending oneself can be draining. ( I
do appreciate all the help people have given me during my homeschooling
research, and, maybe someday (I hope) when I have more experience, I can
share that help too.) Right now we need to build our confidence first.
Sorry, I really didn't mean to agitate you just before bedtime! Thanks for
your perspective!
Olivia
Of course I had to check my mail before I went to bed! I think my friend
is not having people ask about homeschooling in a pleasant,
information-seeking way, but rather it's putting her in a defensive
position. She doesn't want to have to spend all of her visit, every visit,
explaining that they are really doing ok, that the kids are happy, and this
is truly the best option for their family. Sometimes it's nice just to have
friendly conversation. I guess she's been having some negative responses
from friends, and in front of her kids. We love to talk about homeschooling
to interested parties, but always defending oneself can be draining. ( I
do appreciate all the help people have given me during my homeschooling
research, and, maybe someday (I hope) when I have more experience, I can
share that help too.) Right now we need to build our confidence first.
Sorry, I really didn't mean to agitate you just before bedtime! Thanks for
your perspective!
Olivia
>wow, I was just about to go to bed, but reading your note got me!
>I guess it all depends on how you look at things. I find that I love it when
>people want to talk to me about homeschooling. I guess I am a teacher at
>heart, but I love to help newbies. No one ever helped me, I just sorta had
>to fend for myself, guess that is why I am not much into joining groups.
>Even new people to chat rooms on AOL. I like to help, someone did take the
>time to help me learn how to download and play wavs, and new people never
>know how. Anyway, my point, I would find this a great teaching experience
>instead of feeling weird. I so enjoy what I do that I can't resist talking
>about it. So....., no, I don't think we need to get new friends, just look
>at the situation in a different light. If it still bothers you, or rather
>your friend, then you might want to get new friends!!
>
[email protected]
Robin,
Perhaps you touched a nerve with you friend and it was a sensitive one at
that. Some people are uncomfortable with being challenged to look at
something differently. She may have felt threatened by the information.
Maybe she didn't like thinking that she wasn't doing the best thing for her
kids and that made her feel bad. I don't discuss this with my sister at all.
She sends her kids to preschool which is really an all day daycare center
under the guise of a school and the older one goes to school. If I told her
about the reasons why I homeschool, she would definitely think I was
criticizing here and saying that she was a bad mother.
Cindy
Perhaps you touched a nerve with you friend and it was a sensitive one at
that. Some people are uncomfortable with being challenged to look at
something differently. She may have felt threatened by the information.
Maybe she didn't like thinking that she wasn't doing the best thing for her
kids and that made her feel bad. I don't discuss this with my sister at all.
She sends her kids to preschool which is really an all day daycare center
under the guise of a school and the older one goes to school. If I told her
about the reasons why I homeschool, she would definitely think I was
criticizing here and saying that she was a bad mother.
Cindy
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/1999 8:14:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Pinderscmb@... writes:
<< Perhaps you touched a nerve with you friend and it was a sensitive one at
that. Some people are uncomfortable with being challenged to look at
something differently. She may have felt threatened by the information.
Maybe she didn't like thinking that she wasn't doing the best thing for her
kids and that made her feel bad. >>
I had a friend like that a few years ago. She was constantly belittling our
choice to homeschool and making me feel rotten (I am NOT a person who likes
to argue). I finally figured out that she was angry with me because I was
trying to be different and she can't understand that concept. She has to have
the cars, house, clothes ect that everyone else has, and that I stepped out
of her comfort zone was scary for her. I try very hard NOT to discuss our
homeschooling life simply because I don't want to make others feel like I'm
putting them down for their educational choices. So while my friends rant and
rave about the school system, I just keep my mouth shut and smile.
Marti In Wa
Pinderscmb@... writes:
<< Perhaps you touched a nerve with you friend and it was a sensitive one at
that. Some people are uncomfortable with being challenged to look at
something differently. She may have felt threatened by the information.
Maybe she didn't like thinking that she wasn't doing the best thing for her
kids and that made her feel bad. >>
I had a friend like that a few years ago. She was constantly belittling our
choice to homeschool and making me feel rotten (I am NOT a person who likes
to argue). I finally figured out that she was angry with me because I was
trying to be different and she can't understand that concept. She has to have
the cars, house, clothes ect that everyone else has, and that I stepped out
of her comfort zone was scary for her. I try very hard NOT to discuss our
homeschooling life simply because I don't want to make others feel like I'm
putting them down for their educational choices. So while my friends rant and
rave about the school system, I just keep my mouth shut and smile.
Marti In Wa
Lois Hoover
>From: Olivia <liv2learn@...>Hi Olivia,
>>
>I am new to this list so I guess I should just jump in and introduce
>myself. My name is Olivia and I live in Mass. We will "officially" be
>homeschooling/unschooling one 6yo at the end of kindergarten this June. In
>reality, we will simply be going back to the kinds of fun things we had
>time to do before the intrusion of school schedules.
How I wish that I had been smart enough to search out options when mine
were that age. I watched my first born climb onto that huge bus on the
first of many morning with a gut feeling that this was wrong. My children
had attended a wonderful daycare in the center of my college, and that
seemed okay. I had scheduled my classes so as not to have to be there all
day or even every day. The boys felt like they were living a part of my
life at the same time. That may sound strange, but by the time that I
graduated they knew things about the university that I hadn't known until
they told me, they visited the planetarium, the biology museum, the library
and more. But ps that was different. I wasn't there to stop in between
classes and take them out with me, we couldn't walk over the bridge now and
tell the story of the three trolls like we'd done. Where the day care
allowed us to remain a family unit still, ps took my son away from me. I
was now only supposed to show up if invited which bothered me. The things
my son came home with were horrible, and he began to wet himself out of
fear almost everyday. I knew it was wrong but didn't know I had an option.
Each day seemed to get worse, until at the end of his 6th grade, he left
and has slowly become a wonderful teen with a great deal of self esteem and
self respect finally.
I am a little nervous
>about mentioning to people that my son will not be going to first grade inMaybe you don't have to. Not many around us even think about it. And some
>the fall; I hate having to explain our reasons over and over again to that
>puzzled or disapproving look on people's faces.
who do are so supportive, many with smaller children will ask questions and
remark how they have decided to keep their children home also. To those who
have questioned, I have different approaches. To the cashier at the grocery
store or something who asks why? I simply remark "because we love it" and
keep on with my business at hand. Friends I've answered more indepth when
they are serious and not just trying to show me the errors of my ways. But
I've walked away from friendships which had lasted up til then almost 15
years because I wouldn't take being treated disrespectfully for our
decisions. Family, well, after telling them why, if they didn't accept it I
simply said that they had the chance to make the decisions they felt were
appropriate for their families and now it was our chance to make our
decisions. I also told them I wouldn't tolerate disrespect from them for
our decisions over education. That worked and now even my grandparents who
in the beginning were very against it are thrilled by the way my children
have blossomed in the two years we've been home together.
Also, I worry about my
>only-child son not having many non-adult playmates available once publicI wouldn't worry about that too much IMO, I find that the younger the
>school resumes in September. We are working on finding similarly-minded
>families in the area.
>
child, the less they seem to need others in the same age group around. As
they mature, they tend to find one or two close friends within a couple
year age span and keep those friends for most of their lives. Even in
school, I didn't have many friends and those I did, didn't even go to my
school.
>I wasn't going to post just yet, but Julie's comments about "manufactured"This is true it seems everywhere (at least in the US) While my boys played
>children struck a chord with me. While sitting on the sidelines of my son's
>sporting events and on a recent school field trip, I had the chance to hear
>lots of conversations about how "busy" kids are: that is, how they are
>shuttled from one place to another while parents work.
local soccer for years, parents would ask us if they played baseball at the
same time, I'd say no we chose one sport for summer, they'd ask which
soccer traveling league we were on, I'd say none that the costs and time
took too much from other activities that we wanted. I was told that it's a
parents responsiblity to provide all this, it was as if becoming a slave
with a vehicle was what turned out good children. I didn't agree and found
that while the season for soccer seemed too short at times, my children
didn't desire/want the hectic schedule that these families believed they
had to have.
> I wonder how many kids who say they like school do soIsn't it amazing how many say they love school. I have a friend who's
>only to please parents, or because school is better than the alternative of
>all-day day-care or being home alone.
>
children still go to school. her daughter (10) tells us how much she likes
school, then she will ask my 11 yo son what he did today. He will tell her
and she will remark with "Not fair!". I don't think many know they have an
option or because school starts at such an early age, they can't imagine a
life outside of school. When my boys were in school, they came home to
want to veg out in front of the tv, summer vacations became boring, and
they really didn't have many interests. But once the decision was made to
hs and they had their time to deschool they came up with several hobbies
and found ways that were enjoyable to fill their time. Now they can't
imagine sitting in a classroom all day anymore.
>OK, thanks for sharing the soap-box! LOLDon't do that, I enjoyed your ramble.
>(Next time I'll try for not so long and rambling!)
>
Lois
Olivia
Hi Lois:
Thanks for your thoughtful response. Your family's college experience
sounds wonderful; your children had the benefit of varied resources and a
wide range of contacts while there with you. Yes, public school is very
divisive to the family unit, separating siblings and children and parents.
I hated that feeling that something was not quite right when my son went on
that schoolbus.
I have to say that my parents have gradually tried to understand my
motivations for wanting to try homeschooling, although they still question
"how will he (my son) learn everything he has to know?" And "how are you
going to make him to learn about subjects that he doesn't like?" I try to
explain my feelings: I don't think because a state school board decides
what children should know that this is the definitive book of knowledge.
And no, I am not going to force him to "study" a subject that is of no
interest to him right now; that would only push him further away from it.
We saw that happen in school this year. The school instituted a mandatory
reading program complete with a competition and prizes. My son had learned
by himself to read at about age 4, and had always enjoyed reading with me
at bedtime. But now, because he was forced to do it, he didn't want to read
anymore, especially at the end of the program. He is gradually coming back
to reading, but only the books he likes, not the ones recommended in school.
I wish I had had the option to learn at home when I was a child. I was very
shy and terrified of tests and failing, even though I was a "model"
student. I would have preferred to stay home and read and draw and make
things with my mom. But if you had asked me then, I would probably have
said I liked school because I thought I should like it. Our culture
revolves around "education" (not learning) as a rite of passage. Too bad it
is a rite that is a trial-by-fire.
I look forward to hearing more of your comments!
Olivia
Thanks for your thoughtful response. Your family's college experience
sounds wonderful; your children had the benefit of varied resources and a
wide range of contacts while there with you. Yes, public school is very
divisive to the family unit, separating siblings and children and parents.
I hated that feeling that something was not quite right when my son went on
that schoolbus.
I have to say that my parents have gradually tried to understand my
motivations for wanting to try homeschooling, although they still question
"how will he (my son) learn everything he has to know?" And "how are you
going to make him to learn about subjects that he doesn't like?" I try to
explain my feelings: I don't think because a state school board decides
what children should know that this is the definitive book of knowledge.
And no, I am not going to force him to "study" a subject that is of no
interest to him right now; that would only push him further away from it.
We saw that happen in school this year. The school instituted a mandatory
reading program complete with a competition and prizes. My son had learned
by himself to read at about age 4, and had always enjoyed reading with me
at bedtime. But now, because he was forced to do it, he didn't want to read
anymore, especially at the end of the program. He is gradually coming back
to reading, but only the books he likes, not the ones recommended in school.
I wish I had had the option to learn at home when I was a child. I was very
shy and terrified of tests and failing, even though I was a "model"
student. I would have preferred to stay home and read and draw and make
things with my mom. But if you had asked me then, I would probably have
said I liked school because I thought I should like it. Our culture
revolves around "education" (not learning) as a rite of passage. Too bad it
is a rite that is a trial-by-fire.
I look forward to hearing more of your comments!
Olivia