Billy or Nancy

I remember reading this article a couple of years ago, but could never
remember where I had originally seen it when I tried to tell other people
about it. It is now available on-line (originally was in BusinessWeek) and
somebody recently posted the URL on our message board, so I thought I would
share it. It is an excellent example of unschooling and how curiosity can
motivate surprising learning. I especially like the quote "I contend that by
the time we are 16, we are taught to want teachers, taught that we cannot
learn anything without teachers." You can read the article for yourself at:

http://www.greenstar.org/butterflies/Hole-in-the-Wall.htm

Billy
www.unschooling.org
www.FUN-Books.com

pagan_dar

HI--

I am new to the list but not to unschooling. We live in Mass, and my
husband and I have 3 kids who have never been to school. Dd 16, dd 14
and a ds 10.

I have a legalities question, and if this is not a good forum for
this question, please let me know. Has anyone had exp with reporting
difficulties in Mass? Superintendents being hard to get along with,
asking for testing, truancy issues, etc? I know Mass is one of the
strictest states in the US to homeschool in, never mind unschool,
with our free flowing, real life exps type curriculum.

Has anyone needed help from a lawyer? Did the Homeschool Legal
Defense Assoc ever step in and advocate for anyone? If so, did anyone
find a good Mass lawyer that could advise on legalities, penalties,
etc?

I've been looking through the archives and see that most of the posts
seem to be on philosophy of unschooling. So I don't know if this
question is within the usual bounds of this list, but just thought I
would try. if there is a better place to get answers, please advise!

Thanks in advance---Daryl

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/19/02 8:51:13 AM, pagan_dar@... writes:

<< Has anyone needed help from a lawyer? Did the Homeschool Legal
Defense Assoc ever step in and advocate for anyone? >>

They won't for a pagan or an unschooler.

Sandra, not in Massachusetts

Fetteroll

on 4/19/02 10:28 AM, pagan_dar at pagan_dar@... wrote:

> I have a legalities question, and if this is not a good forum for
> this question, please let me know. Has anyone had exp with reporting
> difficulties in Mass? Superintendents being hard to get along with,
> asking for testing, truancy issues, etc? I know Mass is one of the
> strictest states in the US to homeschool in, never mind unschool,
> with our free flowing, real life exps type curriculum.

Mass is actually relatively easy *if* the rather vague case law is
interpretted properly! ;-)

The best place to get your Mass questions answered is the Massachusetts Home
Learners Association website and email lists. They have a good discussion of
the law on the website and good people to answer questions on the email
list.

http://www.mhla.org
[email protected]
[email protected]

(One is more for legal discussion and one for more general homeschooling
discussion and I forget which is which. But you can ask any question on
either -- or go to the website and read the descriptions of the lists!)

I use Carol Narigon's letter, which Sandra Dodd helpfully makes available at
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html

As for HSLDA, the general feeling outside fundamentalist Christian
school-at-home circles is that they are more harmful than helpful. You can
read more about them at More Inforation on HSLDA
(http://expage.com/page/folchslda).

I *think* there was a lawyer or two listed at the MHLA website, but if not,
the MHLA list might be a good place to ask. But you shouldn't need one. If
you send in your letter of intent and a plan that they can't prove to be
ineffective and you can come to some agreement on assessment (it says the
form of assessment must be approved by the parents) then there's no reason
to have problems. If a superintendent is asking for more than allowed, it
helps to quote relevant passages from the case laws in your reply to them.
(Generally they are speaking from their assumption of how laws should work
or are counting on your ignorance.) There's also a "For Superintendent's"
page at HMLA's website that you can send to him.

Joyce

pagan_dar

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/19/02 8:51:13 AM, pagan_dar@y... writes:
>
> << Has anyone needed help from a lawyer? Did the Homeschool Legal
> Defense Assoc ever step in and advocate for anyone? >>
>
> They won't for a pagan or an unschooler.
>
> Sandra, not in Massachusetts


LOL!!!! Point taken and thanks for the laugh. I didn't really realize
before now that the HSLDA was a Christian organization.

Much thanks to Joyce for the webpages for info and to Kris for the
personal exp! I feel much relieved and will look into it!

In case you wondered why i wrote my intro and questions twice, I
found the first one didn't post for several days, so I sent another,
and then of course, saw the first one finally sent. Good ol' Yahoo!

Best---Daryl

Jon and Rue Kream

Daryl - I'm in MA. Our super wanted us to do standardized tests. We
refused, and haven't heard from them since. Are you having a problem, or
just wondering? ~Rue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Camille Bauer

<< Has anyone needed help from a lawyer? Did the Homeschool Legal
Defense Assoc ever step in and advocate for anyone? >>

They won't for a pagan or an unschooler.>>

HSLDA won't accept pagans? Are they a christian group?

CamilleGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 4/20/02 11:29 AM, Camille Bauer at goddessofwisdom2@... wrote:

> HSLDA won't accept pagans? Are they a christian group?

Way Christian. As in Fundamentalist Christian. As in some of the people
running it running around with the Reconstructionists who would like America
to be the theocracy it was supposedly intended to be.

Joyce

Lynda

3Rs -- Radical Religious Right. Helen has a bunch of stuff on H$LDA at HEM,
I think.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Camille Bauer" <goddessofwisdom2@...>
To: "Unschooling_dotcom" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Intro and a question about reporting and
the law--


> << Has anyone needed help from a lawyer? Did the Homeschool Legal
> Defense Assoc ever step in and advocate for anyone? >>
>
> They won't for a pagan or an unschooler.>>
>
> HSLDA won't accept pagans? Are they a christian group?
>
> CamilleGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Fetteroll

on 4/20/02 3:41 PM, Lynda at lurine@... wrote:

> 3Rs -- Radical Religious Right. Helen has a bunch of stuff on H$LDA at HEM,
> I think.

And if she doesn't, there's a huge amount of stuff at
http://expage.com/page/folchslda

Joyce

[email protected]

-=-HSLDA won't accept pagans? Are they a christian group?-=-

They might accept your money, but they won't defend you if they don't want to.

From the left sidebar, main page of their website (http://www.hslda.org/):


Prayer & Praise
- April 20 -
Pray that the Lord will use home schooling seminars and conferences across
the country to bless participants and strengthen the home schooling movement.

me School Heartbeat
This Week's Programs
M
O
N
Biblical Philosophy of Education — Deut. 6

T
U
E
Biblical Philosophy of Education — Matt. 28

W
E
D
Biblical Philosophy of Education — Prov. 2:6

T
H
U
Biblical Philosophy of Education — Rom. 1

F
R
I
Biblical Philosophy of Education — Prov. 1:8; Eph. 6:5

susan marie

Hi Joyce,

Could you explain the term "reconstructionist" and what you mean by the
phrase "America to be the theocracy it was supposedly intended to be".

Maybe point towards somewhere to read more about this?

Thanks,
Susan

On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 11:57 AM, Fetteroll wrote:

> on 4/20/02 11:29 AM, Camille Bauer at goddessofwisdom2@...
> wrote:
>
> > HSLDA won't accept pagans? Are they a christian group?
>
> Way Christian. As in Fundamentalist Christian. As in some of the people
> running it running around with the Reconstructionists who would like
> America
> to be the theocracy it was supposedly intended to be.
>
> Joyce
>
>

>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Peace,
Susan

There is nothing so secular that it cannot be sacred, and that is one of
the deepest messages of the Incarnation. -- Madeleine L'Engle





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 4/28/02 8:44 AM, susan marie at scribblers2@... wrote:

> Hi Joyce,
>
> Could you explain the term "reconstructionist" and what you mean by the
> phrase "America to be the theocracy it was supposedly intended to be".
>
> Maybe point towards somewhere to read more about this?

Try:

Reconstruction Theology in Home Education - Mary McCarthy
http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Atlantis/8616/reconstructionists.html

She's not a reconstructionist, so that needs to be kept in mind when
processing her ideas of what their thinking is, but she mentions a lot of
names (Rushdoony for example) and terms you can use to do a search with
Google.

Joyce

[email protected]

<< Could you explain the term "reconstructionist" and what you mean by the
phrase "America to be the theocracy it was supposedly intended to be".

<<Maybe point towards somewhere to read more about this >>

Go to www.google.com and put those main words in and read tons of scary stuff!

susan marie

I did.. just skimmed it.

and yes -- incredibly scary!

thanks,
s.

On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 09:38 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:

>
> << Could you explain the term "reconstructionist" and what you mean by
> the
> phrase "America to be the theocracy it was supposedly intended to be".
>
> <<Maybe point towards somewhere to read more about this >>
>
> Go to www.google.com and put those main words in and read tons of scary
> stuff!
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Peace,
Susan

There is nothing so secular that it cannot be sacred, and that is one of
the deepest messages of the Incarnation. -- Madeleine L'Engle





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]