Math experiences
Julie Stauffer
I had always thought I was dumb in math....I just didn't get it. I remember
8th grade math (converting to the metric system) and I would stay up all
night with my dad trying to help me and just bawling because I was soooo
tired and soooo frustrated. In every other subject, I never even studied
until I was in graduate school, but math kicked my butt. Soooo......I
learned how to be friends with math teachers and that got me through school.
As an adult, I was taking flying lessons but couldn't pass the exam because
of the math. Again, I just didn't get it.
Then with the kids one day, I just happened to be watching "Bill Nye" talk
about "powerful forces" and it blew me away. Suddenly I realized that
physics is just a different language for what every kid already knows
(riding the "twister" at the fair pulls you to the outside seat, the harder
you swing a bat the farther the ball goes). It was like lights going on all
over my brain. I suddenly understood math, I could break down the formulas
and see how and why they worked. I was so angry that I had felt stupid for
so long.
Now I teach karate classes and we talk about how all it is is physics with
attitude. We talk about Newton's laws of motion, about how much of a
takedown is simply providing an axis for the motion taking place....it has
been cool.
Julie
8th grade math (converting to the metric system) and I would stay up all
night with my dad trying to help me and just bawling because I was soooo
tired and soooo frustrated. In every other subject, I never even studied
until I was in graduate school, but math kicked my butt. Soooo......I
learned how to be friends with math teachers and that got me through school.
As an adult, I was taking flying lessons but couldn't pass the exam because
of the math. Again, I just didn't get it.
Then with the kids one day, I just happened to be watching "Bill Nye" talk
about "powerful forces" and it blew me away. Suddenly I realized that
physics is just a different language for what every kid already knows
(riding the "twister" at the fair pulls you to the outside seat, the harder
you swing a bat the farther the ball goes). It was like lights going on all
over my brain. I suddenly understood math, I could break down the formulas
and see how and why they worked. I was so angry that I had felt stupid for
so long.
Now I teach karate classes and we talk about how all it is is physics with
attitude. We talk about Newton's laws of motion, about how much of a
takedown is simply providing an axis for the motion taking place....it has
been cool.
Julie
Lynda
IF, a major IF children are going to be "taught" math, they should all have
clones of the algebra teacher I had in junior high. We may have looked in
the book once a week but that was only to see written form of what he was
"showing" us from real life.
I don't remember how he did it but he made the classroom into one of those
old punch card computers with the students being what the punched parts on
the cards represented. He also made the students into a slide rule and then
we were one of those chinese counting things.
He only tested quarterly and his tests were NOT cream puffs, yet everyone
passed because he completely anihilated math phobia AND kids who had never
gotten better than a D in math were getting As and Bs!
He is my idol <g> and who I try to pattern my answering math questions the
kidlets might have.
Lynda
clones of the algebra teacher I had in junior high. We may have looked in
the book once a week but that was only to see written form of what he was
"showing" us from real life.
I don't remember how he did it but he made the classroom into one of those
old punch card computers with the students being what the punched parts on
the cards represented. He also made the students into a slide rule and then
we were one of those chinese counting things.
He only tested quarterly and his tests were NOT cream puffs, yet everyone
passed because he completely anihilated math phobia AND kids who had never
gotten better than a D in math were getting As and Bs!
He is my idol <g> and who I try to pattern my answering math questions the
kidlets might have.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:31 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Math experiences
> I had always thought I was dumb in math....I just didn't get it. I
remember
> 8th grade math (converting to the metric system) and I would stay up all
> night with my dad trying to help me and just bawling because I was soooo
> tired and soooo frustrated. In every other subject, I never even studied
> until I was in graduate school, but math kicked my butt. Soooo......I
> learned how to be friends with math teachers and that got me through
school.
>
> As an adult, I was taking flying lessons but couldn't pass the exam
because
> of the math. Again, I just didn't get it.
>
> Then with the kids one day, I just happened to be watching "Bill Nye" talk
> about "powerful forces" and it blew me away. Suddenly I realized that
> physics is just a different language for what every kid already knows
> (riding the "twister" at the fair pulls you to the outside seat, the
harder
> you swing a bat the farther the ball goes). It was like lights going on
all
> over my brain. I suddenly understood math, I could break down the
formulas
> and see how and why they worked. I was so angry that I had felt stupid
for
> so long.
>
> Now I teach karate classes and we talk about how all it is is physics with
> attitude. We talk about Newton's laws of motion, about how much of a
> takedown is simply providing an axis for the motion taking place....it has
> been cool.
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
sharon childs
Math was certainly never made enjoyable like that for me. I don't remember
a single pleasant math experience.
This is the subject that I am the most insecure about being able to help
Chaelene learn.
How do you help someone else learn something that you are not very good at?
Do you trade with somebody? I hope not, I have nobody to *trade* with. I
am not even personal friends with anybody doing this,,,only you people. The
people I know are still having trouble comprehending HOMEschooling.
Major breakthroughs in reading are occurring now but this math thingy still
has me on pretty shakey ground.
Sharon
a single pleasant math experience.
This is the subject that I am the most insecure about being able to help
Chaelene learn.
How do you help someone else learn something that you are not very good at?
Do you trade with somebody? I hope not, I have nobody to *trade* with. I
am not even personal friends with anybody doing this,,,only you people. The
people I know are still having trouble comprehending HOMEschooling.
Major breakthroughs in reading are occurring now but this math thingy still
has me on pretty shakey ground.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Math experiences
> IF, a major IF children are going to be "taught" math, they should all
have
> clones of the algebra teacher I had in junior high. We may have looked in
> the book once a week but that was only to see written form of what he was
> "showing" us from real life.
>
> I don't remember how he did it but he made the classroom into one of those
> old punch card computers with the students being what the punched parts on
> the cards represented. He also made the students into a slide rule and
then
> we were one of those chinese counting things.
>
> He only tested quarterly and his tests were NOT cream puffs, yet everyone
> passed because he completely anihilated math phobia AND kids who had never
> gotten better than a D in math were getting As and Bs!
>
> He is my idol <g> and who I try to pattern my answering math questions the
> kidlets might have.
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:31 AM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Math experiences
>
>
> > I had always thought I was dumb in math....I just didn't get it. I
> remember
> > 8th grade math (converting to the metric system) and I would stay up all
> > night with my dad trying to help me and just bawling because I was soooo
> > tired and soooo frustrated. In every other subject, I never even
studied
> > until I was in graduate school, but math kicked my butt. Soooo......I
> > learned how to be friends with math teachers and that got me through
> school.
> >
> > As an adult, I was taking flying lessons but couldn't pass the exam
> because
> > of the math. Again, I just didn't get it.
> >
> > Then with the kids one day, I just happened to be watching "Bill Nye"
talk
> > about "powerful forces" and it blew me away. Suddenly I realized that
> > physics is just a different language for what every kid already knows
> > (riding the "twister" at the fair pulls you to the outside seat, the
> harder
> > you swing a bat the farther the ball goes). It was like lights going on
> all
> > over my brain. I suddenly understood math, I could break down the
> formulas
> > and see how and why they worked. I was so angry that I had felt stupid
> for
> > so long.
> >
> > Now I teach karate classes and we talk about how all it is is physics
with
> > attitude. We talk about Newton's laws of motion, about how much of a
> > takedown is simply providing an axis for the motion taking place....it
has
> > been cool.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Ann Yates
I just thank my lucky stars that I have a husband that is good at math and very good at explaining it in a way even opens some windows for me. LOL
Ann
How do you help someone else learn something that you are not very good at?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ann
How do you help someone else learn something that you are not very good at?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
I wouldn't worry about math. Math happens. It is only when it is forced,
and in ps it is usually by someone who was math phobic to begin with so the
math phobia goes on and on and on.
there are tons of fun computer programs out there that incorporate math,
some specific for math, board games, video games, cooking, spending money,
checking prices at the grocery store, saving money, building things (using
tape measure, etc.). Math is everywhere and one just relaxes, it isn't all
that hard.
IF she wants to learn the school type stuff later when she is older, there
are lots of good computer programs. I know a woman who was totally math
phobic and yet learned algebra and geometry right along with her daughter
because it was fun and not "required."
Lynda
and in ps it is usually by someone who was math phobic to begin with so the
math phobia goes on and on and on.
there are tons of fun computer programs out there that incorporate math,
some specific for math, board games, video games, cooking, spending money,
checking prices at the grocery store, saving money, building things (using
tape measure, etc.). Math is everywhere and one just relaxes, it isn't all
that hard.
IF she wants to learn the school type stuff later when she is older, there
are lots of good computer programs. I know a woman who was totally math
phobic and yet learned algebra and geometry right along with her daughter
because it was fun and not "required."
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "sharon childs" <sugarcrafter@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Math experiences
> Math was certainly never made enjoyable like that for me. I don't
remember
> a single pleasant math experience.
>
> This is the subject that I am the most insecure about being able to help
> Chaelene learn.
>
> How do you help someone else learn something that you are not very good
at?
> Do you trade with somebody? I hope not, I have nobody to *trade* with. I
> am not even personal friends with anybody doing this,,,only you people.
The
> people I know are still having trouble comprehending HOMEschooling.
>
> Major breakthroughs in reading are occurring now but this math thingy
still
> has me on pretty shakey ground.
>
> Sharon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 12:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Math experiences
>
>
> > IF, a major IF children are going to be "taught" math, they should all
> have
> > clones of the algebra teacher I had in junior high. We may have looked
in
> > the book once a week but that was only to see written form of what he
was
> > "showing" us from real life.
> >
> > I don't remember how he did it but he made the classroom into one of
those
> > old punch card computers with the students being what the punched parts
on
> > the cards represented. He also made the students into a slide rule and
> then
> > we were one of those chinese counting things.
> >
> > He only tested quarterly and his tests were NOT cream puffs, yet
everyone
> > passed because he completely anihilated math phobia AND kids who had
never
> > gotten better than a D in math were getting As and Bs!
> >
> > He is my idol <g> and who I try to pattern my answering math questions
the
> > kidlets might have.
> >
> > Lynda
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:31 AM
> > Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Math experiences
> >
> >
> > > I had always thought I was dumb in math....I just didn't get it. I
> > remember
> > > 8th grade math (converting to the metric system) and I would stay up
all
> > > night with my dad trying to help me and just bawling because I was
soooo
> > > tired and soooo frustrated. In every other subject, I never even
> studied
> > > until I was in graduate school, but math kicked my butt.
Soooo......I
> > > learned how to be friends with math teachers and that got me through
> > school.
> > >
> > > As an adult, I was taking flying lessons but couldn't pass the exam
> > because
> > > of the math. Again, I just didn't get it.
> > >
> > > Then with the kids one day, I just happened to be watching "Bill Nye"
> talk
> > > about "powerful forces" and it blew me away. Suddenly I realized that
> > > physics is just a different language for what every kid already knows
> > > (riding the "twister" at the fair pulls you to the outside seat, the
> > harder
> > > you swing a bat the farther the ball goes). It was like lights going
on
> > all
> > > over my brain. I suddenly understood math, I could break down the
> > formulas
> > > and see how and why they worked. I was so angry that I had felt
stupid
> > for
> > > so long.
> > >
> > > Now I teach karate classes and we talk about how all it is is physics
> with
> > > attitude. We talk about Newton's laws of motion, about how much of a
> > > takedown is simply providing an axis for the motion taking place....it
> has
> > > been cool.
> > >
> > > Julie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line!
~~~
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > [email protected]
> > >
> > > Visit the Unschooling website:
> > > http://www.unschooling.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
Don't ask me how I managed to escape unscathed from my high school
math experiences. I never had trouble with numbers, but did pretty
poorly in algebra and geometry (which played hell with my grade point
average as I was honor roll everything else). I never had a complex
about it, I just thought "this doesn't make sense and is useless to
me". I knew how to play the game and get through. My high school
math teachers took pity on me and made sure I passed. How I have
no idea. I really did not understand most of the work. My husband
and I run a successful business, in fact I am the Chief Financial
Officer of our corporation. Its not just a title either, but a real job LOL!
Don't know if this is what you were looking for Pam. I don't ever say
I am not good at math, because I am good at what I do. So far
there hasn't been a real need, but as we add on to our home I
am sure I will be learning some things, and figuring out some things
that I never learned before.
Kathy
math experiences. I never had trouble with numbers, but did pretty
poorly in algebra and geometry (which played hell with my grade point
average as I was honor roll everything else). I never had a complex
about it, I just thought "this doesn't make sense and is useless to
me". I knew how to play the game and get through. My high school
math teachers took pity on me and made sure I passed. How I have
no idea. I really did not understand most of the work. My husband
and I run a successful business, in fact I am the Chief Financial
Officer of our corporation. Its not just a title either, but a real job LOL!
Don't know if this is what you were looking for Pam. I don't ever say
I am not good at math, because I am good at what I do. So far
there hasn't been a real need, but as we add on to our home I
am sure I will be learning some things, and figuring out some things
that I never learned before.
Kathy
Valerie Cifuentes
Kathy,
You brought up something I believe in very deeply.
I could take 6 years to teach a concept to one of my children, yet if I
had waited they could learn it in a matter of minutes! I feel that's how
math works!
Honestly, folks should ask themselves, "WHAT did I really get out of
grade school?" Little or nothing should be the answer, or, I don't
remember. "Nothing I didn't do at home."
Einstein and Newton didn't go to school. Look at what they did when let
loose of demanding curriculums!
I believe that we learn detailed things better as ADULTS than any other
time in our lives. When we set our hearts to getting something done we
get it done. Like you being the Chief Financial Officer of your
corporation. The math classes that you near failed at are nothing but a
distant memory. It didn't REALLY matter did it?
I want my children to not be lazy. I believe that if I give them the
room to do things that they are interested in they will have
self-motivation.
Too much manipulated structure creates laziness.
You sound very motivated in your work. Maybe it was a blessing that the
teachers didn't give you a hard time and found a heart to "pass" you, it
took the pressure off and kept you motivated, maybe?
We do use Saxon math around here. I pick and choose what to use
according to my children's bent.
Sometimes the book just sits there. There is no pressure to do the work
anymore. I found that when I required a lesson a day my 14 yr. old was
miserable and didn't have the motivation to do anything else. The
lessons literally ruined her day.
I shoved the book across the table and told her, "Do it when you feel
you can."
She loves working in her math book at night, She prefers to do only 15
problems a day. She went from getting 15 out of 30 wrong to 2 out of 15
wrong and she's able to find her own mistakes. She has even begun to
reference back in her book all by herself! I remember when she was
working on a problem and I asked her what her first thought was and she
took the book and began searching back a few chapters! I almost fell on
the floor! This is a child that would well up in tears at the sight of
her math book. Her heart has totally changed!
She likes to do it now, but on HER terms. Not mine. And you know what?
If she slid it under the bed and didn't touch it again, that's okay with
me. She'll be alright, I know she will. AND she isn't lazy. She knows
where to find the information she needs.
Thanks for letting share! Sorry so long too! This is a great place to
relate. Not many homeschoolers understand someone that isn't tied to the
curriculum. I'm glad I found ya'll!
Going camping .be back Monday!
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
.· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Valerie Cifuentes
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*
I CAN NO LONGER ACCEPT FORWARDS, CHAIN LETTERS AND PETITIONS. THEY ARE
FILLING UP MY BOX AND TAKING UP MY TIME. THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING!
http://nolen.home.texas.net/valerie/Cifuentes.html
I'm A Navy Brat & Wife of HM2 Cifuentes; Active Duty Navy, & Mother of
Three Young Navy Brats!
*~*PLEASE HAVE PATIENCE AS I CHECK EMAIL ONCE IN THE MORNING & EVENING
AFTER 3:00PM AND NOT ON SUNDAY (THE LORD'S DAY.)*~*
-----Original Message-----
From: Natrlmama@... [mailto:Natrlmama@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 2:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Math experiences
Don't ask me how I managed to escape unscathed from my high school
math experiences. I never had trouble with numbers, but did pretty
poorly in algebra and geometry (which played hell with my grade point
average as I was honor roll everything else). I never had a complex
about it, I just thought "this doesn't make sense and is useless to
me". I knew how to play the game and get through. My high school
math teachers took pity on me and made sure I passed. How I have
no idea. I really did not understand most of the work. My husband
and I run a successful business, in fact I am the Chief Financial
Officer of our corporation. Its not just a title either, but a real job
LOL!
Don't know if this is what you were looking for Pam. I don't ever say
I am not good at math, because I am good at what I do. So far
there hasn't been a real need, but as we add on to our home I
am sure I will be learning some things, and figuring out some things
that I never learned before.
Kathy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You brought up something I believe in very deeply.
I could take 6 years to teach a concept to one of my children, yet if I
had waited they could learn it in a matter of minutes! I feel that's how
math works!
Honestly, folks should ask themselves, "WHAT did I really get out of
grade school?" Little or nothing should be the answer, or, I don't
remember. "Nothing I didn't do at home."
Einstein and Newton didn't go to school. Look at what they did when let
loose of demanding curriculums!
I believe that we learn detailed things better as ADULTS than any other
time in our lives. When we set our hearts to getting something done we
get it done. Like you being the Chief Financial Officer of your
corporation. The math classes that you near failed at are nothing but a
distant memory. It didn't REALLY matter did it?
I want my children to not be lazy. I believe that if I give them the
room to do things that they are interested in they will have
self-motivation.
Too much manipulated structure creates laziness.
You sound very motivated in your work. Maybe it was a blessing that the
teachers didn't give you a hard time and found a heart to "pass" you, it
took the pressure off and kept you motivated, maybe?
We do use Saxon math around here. I pick and choose what to use
according to my children's bent.
Sometimes the book just sits there. There is no pressure to do the work
anymore. I found that when I required a lesson a day my 14 yr. old was
miserable and didn't have the motivation to do anything else. The
lessons literally ruined her day.
I shoved the book across the table and told her, "Do it when you feel
you can."
She loves working in her math book at night, She prefers to do only 15
problems a day. She went from getting 15 out of 30 wrong to 2 out of 15
wrong and she's able to find her own mistakes. She has even begun to
reference back in her book all by herself! I remember when she was
working on a problem and I asked her what her first thought was and she
took the book and began searching back a few chapters! I almost fell on
the floor! This is a child that would well up in tears at the sight of
her math book. Her heart has totally changed!
She likes to do it now, but on HER terms. Not mine. And you know what?
If she slid it under the bed and didn't touch it again, that's okay with
me. She'll be alright, I know she will. AND she isn't lazy. She knows
where to find the information she needs.
Thanks for letting share! Sorry so long too! This is a great place to
relate. Not many homeschoolers understand someone that isn't tied to the
curriculum. I'm glad I found ya'll!
Going camping .be back Monday!
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
.· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Valerie Cifuentes
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*
I CAN NO LONGER ACCEPT FORWARDS, CHAIN LETTERS AND PETITIONS. THEY ARE
FILLING UP MY BOX AND TAKING UP MY TIME. THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING!
http://nolen.home.texas.net/valerie/Cifuentes.html
I'm A Navy Brat & Wife of HM2 Cifuentes; Active Duty Navy, & Mother of
Three Young Navy Brats!
*~*PLEASE HAVE PATIENCE AS I CHECK EMAIL ONCE IN THE MORNING & EVENING
AFTER 3:00PM AND NOT ON SUNDAY (THE LORD'S DAY.)*~*
-----Original Message-----
From: Natrlmama@... [mailto:Natrlmama@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 2:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Math experiences
Don't ask me how I managed to escape unscathed from my high school
math experiences. I never had trouble with numbers, but did pretty
poorly in algebra and geometry (which played hell with my grade point
average as I was honor roll everything else). I never had a complex
about it, I just thought "this doesn't make sense and is useless to
me". I knew how to play the game and get through. My high school
math teachers took pity on me and made sure I passed. How I have
no idea. I really did not understand most of the work. My husband
and I run a successful business, in fact I am the Chief Financial
Officer of our corporation. Its not just a title either, but a real job
LOL!
Don't know if this is what you were looking for Pam. I don't ever say
I am not good at math, because I am good at what I do. So far
there hasn't been a real need, but as we add on to our home I
am sure I will be learning some things, and figuring out some things
that I never learned before.
Kathy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sharon childs
<<<I could take 6 years to teach a concept to one of my children, yet if I
had waited they could learn it in a matter of minutes! I feel that's how
math works!>>>
I feel that's how potty training works too!
Only reason I brought this up is because when I saw this it reminded me that
this is the point I was making with my son about unschooling vs. schooling.
When they are ready they learn it and until then your wasting your time and
there's cause they could be doing something else.
He got the point and it won all kinds of points for me for unschooling.
Sharon
had waited they could learn it in a matter of minutes! I feel that's how
math works!>>>
I feel that's how potty training works too!
Only reason I brought this up is because when I saw this it reminded me that
this is the point I was making with my son about unschooling vs. schooling.
When they are ready they learn it and until then your wasting your time and
there's cause they could be doing something else.
He got the point and it won all kinds of points for me for unschooling.
Sharon
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/20/02 10:49:25 AM, homeschool@... writes:
<< Honestly, folks should ask themselves, "WHAT did I really get out of
grade school?" Little or nothing should be the answer, or, I don't
remember. "Nothing I didn't do at home." >>
When I was seven, my grandfather (papaw on mom's side) taught me to add two-
and three-column numbers, or as he said he "larned me to carry." So when
they "taught" me in school how to carry into the next column, I already knew
how because of having asked and gotten help from someone who only went to
second grade in a one-room schoolhouse in West Texas in 1905 or so.
Not a professional math teacher in any way!
AND...
I bet he didn't learn it in school either.
Sandra
<< Honestly, folks should ask themselves, "WHAT did I really get out of
grade school?" Little or nothing should be the answer, or, I don't
remember. "Nothing I didn't do at home." >>
When I was seven, my grandfather (papaw on mom's side) taught me to add two-
and three-column numbers, or as he said he "larned me to carry." So when
they "taught" me in school how to carry into the next column, I already knew
how because of having asked and gotten help from someone who only went to
second grade in a one-room schoolhouse in West Texas in 1905 or so.
Not a professional math teacher in any way!
AND...
I bet he didn't learn it in school either.
Sandra
[email protected]
I loved grade school, and got a lot out of it.
Or so I think.
When I really reflect on the issue, it is clear to me that I got a lot out of
grade school because every day when I returned home my mother was there, and
THAT was what I liked about grade school.
My mother stopped being a "stay-at-home-mom" when I was nine.
School went downhill from there.
Kate Davis
In a message dated 4/20/2002 7:24:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Or so I think.
When I really reflect on the issue, it is clear to me that I got a lot out of
grade school because every day when I returned home my mother was there, and
THAT was what I liked about grade school.
My mother stopped being a "stay-at-home-mom" when I was nine.
School went downhill from there.
Kate Davis
In a message dated 4/20/2002 7:24:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> In a message dated 4/20/02 10:49:25 AM, homeschool@... writes:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> << Honestly, folks should ask themselves, "WHAT did I really get out of
>
> grade school?" Little or nothing should be the answer, or, I don't
>
> remember. "Nothing I didn't do at home." >>
>
> When I was seven, my grandfather (papaw on mom's side) taught me to add
> two-
> and three-column numbers, or as he said he "larned me to carry." So when
> they "taught" me in school how to carry into the next column, I already
> knew
> how because of having asked and gotten help from someone who only went to
> second grade in a one-room schoolhouse in West Texas in 1905 or so.
>
> Not a professional math teacher in any way!
>
> AND...
> I bet he didn't learn it in school either.
>
> Sandra
>
sharon childs
I hear that! When I was young and came home from school if my mother was
working (usually she did not, that was back in the 50s, ya know, the Happy
Days, Leave it to Beaver time) I could not stand the lonely feeling in the
house. Eventhough I did not understand what it was I was feeling I just
felt so lost. I would dread coming home from school just because the house
seemed so empty and lonely.
I loved elementary school. Always got straight A's. always popular with all
the kids and staff and usually involved in everything. School was very
different back then than it has become these days though. Now it is not
even a safe place to me.
That is one of the things I like best about unschooling is the fact that she
is here with me where I know she is safe and know exactly what is going on
with her.
Sharon
working (usually she did not, that was back in the 50s, ya know, the Happy
Days, Leave it to Beaver time) I could not stand the lonely feeling in the
house. Eventhough I did not understand what it was I was feeling I just
felt so lost. I would dread coming home from school just because the house
seemed so empty and lonely.
I loved elementary school. Always got straight A's. always popular with all
the kids and staff and usually involved in everything. School was very
different back then than it has become these days though. Now it is not
even a safe place to me.
That is one of the things I like best about unschooling is the fact that she
is here with me where I know she is safe and know exactly what is going on
with her.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: <Katedavislawfirm@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] NEW TOPIC: WHEN LEARNING COUNTS
> I loved grade school, and got a lot out of it.
>
> Or so I think.
>
> When I really reflect on the issue, it is clear to me that I got a lot out
of
> grade school because every day when I returned home my mother was there,
and
> THAT was what I liked about grade school.
>
> My mother stopped being a "stay-at-home-mom" when I was nine.
>
> School went downhill from there.
>
> Kate Davis
>
> In a message dated 4/20/2002 7:24:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> SandraDodd@... writes:
>
>
> > In a message dated 4/20/02 10:49:25 AM, homeschool@... writes:
> >
> > << Honestly, folks should ask themselves, "WHAT did I really get out of
> >
> > grade school?" Little or nothing should be the answer, or, I don't
> >
> > remember. "Nothing I didn't do at home." >>
> >
> > When I was seven, my grandfather (papaw on mom's side) taught me to add
> > two-
> > and three-column numbers, or as he said he "larned me to carry." So
when
> > they "taught" me in school how to carry into the next column, I already
> > knew
> > how because of having asked and gotten help from someone who only went
to
> > second grade in a one-room schoolhouse in West Texas in 1905 or so.
> >
> > Not a professional math teacher in any way!
> >
> > AND...
> > I bet he didn't learn it in school either.
> >
> > Sandra
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Fetteroll
on 4/19/02 9:22 PM, sharon childs at sugarcrafter@... wrote:
leads us to believe that it's all about the rote learning of arcane formulas
to manipulate numbers and the only way to learn them is by precise teaching
and hours of practice.
That's necessary to get *school* math but not real math. There are loads of
kids who can muddle through the percentage problems in the percentage
chapterofthe math book but haven't a clue on how to figure out 5% sales tax
or what 20% off means.
Which doesn't mean schools need to teach more. It means they need to teach
less and help kids explore how numbers work in their lives more. Teaching
math the way schools do without giving kids the opportunity to be immersed
in math that's personally meaningful is like trying to teach Spanish by
teaching grammar and vocabulary without ever hearing it or using it for
personally meaningful reasons. It's the difference between learning English
as a side effect of using it versus learning a foreign language step by
tedious step.
The problem is that if schools allow kids to absorb math the way they
absorbed English the schools run up against their biggest road block which
providing feedback to parents and administrators and the state that the kids
are learning. Unfortunately the best methods that allow schools to provide
the best feedback are also the methods that are the most difficult for kids
to learn through.
I think learning to "speak" math can't be emphasized enough. That means talk
through the process you're going through to solve a problem in your head.
Avoid pencil and paper. If the problem seems to unweildy, break it up into
easier problems that you can solve in your head. That way kids can see --
even if they aren't "getting it" or paying close attention -- how numbers
work.
Pencil and paper math is something entirely different. Some kids love it,
like puzzles. But they (and those who are forced to do it) won't necessarily
learn how numbers work because the numbers on paper are fixed. The numbers
can't be altered and manipulated and pushed and pulled to make them tell you
the answer.
A child who has manipulated how much allowance she has to figure out how
much more she needs to buy something, and figured out the scores in games --
and has heard her parents do these things so she's comfortable with the
process -- can "get" what borrowing and carrying means (say before she takes
the SATs ;-) because she's done that without realizing it. Whereas it can
take hours and hours to teach it to a child whose major experience with
numbers is problems in a book.
People tend to think of the addition and multiplication tables as synonymous
with being able to do addition and multiplication. But they only mean a
child can do the problems faster not that they have a clue what the process
means. In fact a child counting on her fingers is showing she knows what
addition means.
Joyce
> Major breakthroughs in reading are occurring now but this math thingy stillIt took me a looong time to get unschooling math. I think because school
> has me on pretty shakey ground.
leads us to believe that it's all about the rote learning of arcane formulas
to manipulate numbers and the only way to learn them is by precise teaching
and hours of practice.
That's necessary to get *school* math but not real math. There are loads of
kids who can muddle through the percentage problems in the percentage
chapterofthe math book but haven't a clue on how to figure out 5% sales tax
or what 20% off means.
Which doesn't mean schools need to teach more. It means they need to teach
less and help kids explore how numbers work in their lives more. Teaching
math the way schools do without giving kids the opportunity to be immersed
in math that's personally meaningful is like trying to teach Spanish by
teaching grammar and vocabulary without ever hearing it or using it for
personally meaningful reasons. It's the difference between learning English
as a side effect of using it versus learning a foreign language step by
tedious step.
The problem is that if schools allow kids to absorb math the way they
absorbed English the schools run up against their biggest road block which
providing feedback to parents and administrators and the state that the kids
are learning. Unfortunately the best methods that allow schools to provide
the best feedback are also the methods that are the most difficult for kids
to learn through.
I think learning to "speak" math can't be emphasized enough. That means talk
through the process you're going through to solve a problem in your head.
Avoid pencil and paper. If the problem seems to unweildy, break it up into
easier problems that you can solve in your head. That way kids can see --
even if they aren't "getting it" or paying close attention -- how numbers
work.
Pencil and paper math is something entirely different. Some kids love it,
like puzzles. But they (and those who are forced to do it) won't necessarily
learn how numbers work because the numbers on paper are fixed. The numbers
can't be altered and manipulated and pushed and pulled to make them tell you
the answer.
A child who has manipulated how much allowance she has to figure out how
much more she needs to buy something, and figured out the scores in games --
and has heard her parents do these things so she's comfortable with the
process -- can "get" what borrowing and carrying means (say before she takes
the SATs ;-) because she's done that without realizing it. Whereas it can
take hours and hours to teach it to a child whose major experience with
numbers is problems in a book.
People tend to think of the addition and multiplication tables as synonymous
with being able to do addition and multiplication. But they only mean a
child can do the problems faster not that they have a clue what the process
means. In fact a child counting on her fingers is showing she knows what
addition means.
Joyce
Fetteroll
on 4/20/02 10:10 AM, starsuncloud@... at starsuncloud@... wrote:
Acorns. Hot wheels! ;-) Anything specifically designed for sorting and
counting has built in ways the kids are "supposed" to sort. They are
deliberately limited so as not to be "confusing". That way when kids come up
with the built in right answer teachers can check off that they've
demonstrated an understanding of the concept.
Real things allow kids the freedom to explore surprising similarities that
may not be obvious. Learning to observe is a much more useful skill to a
real scientist or mathemetician (or cook or automotive mechanic or ...) than
being able to notice what everyone else has already noticed!
Joyce
> By providing opportunity and fun materials. By fun materials in math, I meanEven better than plastic counters are *real* things! :-) Leaves. Rocks.
> things like Tangrams, an abacus, a hand counter (those little clicky things),
> magnetic marbles, plastic frogs for sorting and counting, plastic magnetic
> numbers, books, puzzles, chess game
Acorns. Hot wheels! ;-) Anything specifically designed for sorting and
counting has built in ways the kids are "supposed" to sort. They are
deliberately limited so as not to be "confusing". That way when kids come up
with the built in right answer teachers can check off that they've
demonstrated an understanding of the concept.
Real things allow kids the freedom to explore surprising similarities that
may not be obvious. Learning to observe is a much more useful skill to a
real scientist or mathemetician (or cook or automotive mechanic or ...) than
being able to notice what everyone else has already noticed!
Joyce
Liza Sabater
Hi everybody,
I started homeschooling my 4 year old on Sept 10 of last year. I can say that
I have been homeschooling and especially unschooling way before I knew
the terms. I thought of it as parenting.
We live here in NYC. Our first field trip was to be to the top of the
WTC. After
the 11th, my husband and I became even more resolved to have our kids enjoy
life without the pressures of conforming to a 9-5 lifestyle that we do not live
as artists. So life has become our school.
It was more a matter of pride that enjoyment. I WANTED that summa cum
laude. It did not mean I wanted to learn math. I just wanted that piece of
paper that said I was on top.
I love shopping for clothes and have always loved to since as far as I can
remember. My parents did not talk about allowances. We had budgets
and had to manage out money for whatever we needed. Needless to say,
I became an excellent bargain shopper and that is a skill that involves
accounting, appraising and logistics.
the mundaneness
of life. For good baking to happen, measures have to be exact.
Although US cookbooks
use spoons and cups, there are a few (live Levi-Beranbaum's Cake Bible and
Pie & Pastry Bible) that use weight measures. Cups and spoons are great for
fractions and multiplications. The pans for cupcakes and cakes are
great for showing
ratios and weights are a wonderful way of seeing the difference
between "analog"
and digital measures. Then, of course, there is the added bonus of having the
opportunity to go over physics, chemistry, biology and physiology
(especially if there
are food allergies involved).
Math can be as easy as the reward of a home-baked cupcake ;-)
--
Liza Sabater-Napier
ESPAÑOL PARA TODOS
Mamá de Evan y Aidan Napier
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I started homeschooling my 4 year old on Sept 10 of last year. I can say that
I have been homeschooling and especially unschooling way before I knew
the terms. I thought of it as parenting.
We live here in NYC. Our first field trip was to be to the top of the
WTC. After
the 11th, my husband and I became even more resolved to have our kids enjoy
life without the pressures of conforming to a 9-5 lifestyle that we do not live
as artists. So life has become our school.
>A child who has manipulated how much allowance she has to figure out howThis is absolutely right. At school I had to struggle to keep my grades up.
>much more she needs to buy something, and figured out the scores in games --
>and has heard her parents do these things so she's comfortable with the
>process -- can "get" what borrowing and carrying means (say before she takes
>the SATs ;-) because she's done that without realizing it. Whereas it can
>take hours and hours to teach it to a child whose major experience with
>numbers is problems in a book.
It was more a matter of pride that enjoyment. I WANTED that summa cum
laude. It did not mean I wanted to learn math. I just wanted that piece of
paper that said I was on top.
I love shopping for clothes and have always loved to since as far as I can
remember. My parents did not talk about allowances. We had budgets
and had to manage out money for whatever we needed. Needless to say,
I became an excellent bargain shopper and that is a skill that involves
accounting, appraising and logistics.
>People tend to think of the addition and multiplication tables as synonymousBAKING is probably one of the best ways of incorporating math into
>with being able to do addition and multiplication. But they only mean a
>child can do the problems faster not that they have a clue what the process
>means. In fact a child counting on her fingers is showing she knows what
>addition means.
>
the mundaneness
of life. For good baking to happen, measures have to be exact.
Although US cookbooks
use spoons and cups, there are a few (live Levi-Beranbaum's Cake Bible and
Pie & Pastry Bible) that use weight measures. Cups and spoons are great for
fractions and multiplications. The pans for cupcakes and cakes are
great for showing
ratios and weights are a wonderful way of seeing the difference
between "analog"
and digital measures. Then, of course, there is the added bonus of having the
opportunity to go over physics, chemistry, biology and physiology
(especially if there
are food allergies involved).
Math can be as easy as the reward of a home-baked cupcake ;-)
--
Liza Sabater-Napier
ESPAÑOL PARA TODOS
Mamá de Evan y Aidan Napier
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/21/02 6:03:12 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< People tend to think of the addition and multiplication tables as
synonymous
with being able to do addition and multiplication. But they only mean a
child can do the problems faster >>
MEMORIZING them might mean a child can do the problems faster.
But the tables (which people seem rarely to consider) are literally just a
grid. A graph, showing one set of numbers along the bottom, another across
the top, and "the answers" (depending on what function is being shown) in the
corresponding (x,y) spot.
"Doing a times table" means making one of those up and filling it in. It
doesn't mean shouting the answer in response to seeing a 7x8=____ flashcard.
Estimating is a great tool, too. Lots of people who have memorized the
answer to 7x8 would hestitate if asked "Would 7x8 be more or less than 70?"
They would probably take 70 and hold their memorized 56 up to it and see if
it was greater or lesser, instead of thinking that 7x10 is 70, so 7x8 is less
than that.
In other words, one doesn't have to have any idea what 7x8 equals to know it
is less than 70. If they look at the situation and they understand what math
is for, they would know that $8 a week allowance isn't going to buy a $70
pair of skates in seven weeks' time.
And rather than try to TEACH them any of what's above, it's better for the
parent to learn to trust that they will learn it from playing dice games and
cards and spending money and goofing with Lego or maybe knitting or laying
tile or other "pattern games."
Sandra
<< People tend to think of the addition and multiplication tables as
synonymous
with being able to do addition and multiplication. But they only mean a
child can do the problems faster >>
MEMORIZING them might mean a child can do the problems faster.
But the tables (which people seem rarely to consider) are literally just a
grid. A graph, showing one set of numbers along the bottom, another across
the top, and "the answers" (depending on what function is being shown) in the
corresponding (x,y) spot.
"Doing a times table" means making one of those up and filling it in. It
doesn't mean shouting the answer in response to seeing a 7x8=____ flashcard.
Estimating is a great tool, too. Lots of people who have memorized the
answer to 7x8 would hestitate if asked "Would 7x8 be more or less than 70?"
They would probably take 70 and hold their memorized 56 up to it and see if
it was greater or lesser, instead of thinking that 7x10 is 70, so 7x8 is less
than that.
In other words, one doesn't have to have any idea what 7x8 equals to know it
is less than 70. If they look at the situation and they understand what math
is for, they would know that $8 a week allowance isn't going to buy a $70
pair of skates in seven weeks' time.
And rather than try to TEACH them any of what's above, it's better for the
parent to learn to trust that they will learn it from playing dice games and
cards and spending money and goofing with Lego or maybe knitting or laying
tile or other "pattern games."
Sandra
[email protected]
**Even better than plastic counters are *real* things! :-) Leaves. Rocks.
Acorns. Hot wheels! ;-) Anything specifically designed for sorting and
counting has built in ways the kids are "supposed" to sort. They are
deliberately limited so as not to be "confusing". That way when kids come up
with the built in right answer teachers can check off that they've
demonstrated an understanding of the concept.**
My personal favorite collection is my coins. A medium large tub full of
foreign coins and "almost coins" (a phone token from Italy, a laundromat
token from Belgium, a Chicago Transit Authority subway token, a game room
token...). I'm lucky to have relatives who've traveled and saved their pocket
change for us, and friends who've traded with me. Mostly my kids use them for
playing poker with their grandparents, but they've also at various times
pulled the bin out to sort and ponder and look through the coins. Often
they'll join me if I happen to be looking through them myself.
There's math and history and geography and culture and metalurgy and who
knows how many other conversations in that bin. They can be sorted by
country, by metal, by shape, by pictorial subject... And they feel good in
your fingers. :)
I was so happy when my dad brought us some Euros in March. Another little bit
of the world in our hands. :)
Deborah in IL
Acorns. Hot wheels! ;-) Anything specifically designed for sorting and
counting has built in ways the kids are "supposed" to sort. They are
deliberately limited so as not to be "confusing". That way when kids come up
with the built in right answer teachers can check off that they've
demonstrated an understanding of the concept.**
My personal favorite collection is my coins. A medium large tub full of
foreign coins and "almost coins" (a phone token from Italy, a laundromat
token from Belgium, a Chicago Transit Authority subway token, a game room
token...). I'm lucky to have relatives who've traveled and saved their pocket
change for us, and friends who've traded with me. Mostly my kids use them for
playing poker with their grandparents, but they've also at various times
pulled the bin out to sort and ponder and look through the coins. Often
they'll join me if I happen to be looking through them myself.
There's math and history and geography and culture and metalurgy and who
knows how many other conversations in that bin. They can be sorted by
country, by metal, by shape, by pictorial subject... And they feel good in
your fingers. :)
I was so happy when my dad brought us some Euros in March. Another little bit
of the world in our hands. :)
Deborah in IL