tamokey

Compromise Christianity?� I don't intend to offend anyone hear, but I think there are Christians out there who do a fine job of redefining Christianity to suit there own purposes.� And yes I do believe the tree comes from the holiday Winter Solstice.� It is where people would leave fruits, berries, etc. on the bare trees outside for the animals to eat.� The Winter Solstice is the shortest day and the longest night of the year, December 21, I think.� Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

> It was supposed to make it easier to convert folks but what it really did was compromise Christianity and clutter it up with a bunch of pagan ritual. I don't know as much about this as I would like and as it stands now we still hold to some of the basic Christmas traditions such as a tree (which came from some pagan tradition or another, I can't recall which) and we decorate with stockings and stuff like that. We give a few gifts (mil gives too many gifts) and sing carols (ever notice, 'Deck the Halls' is not a Christmas song but a Yule song?) and we talk more about the birth of Christ.

For those of us who do not do the birth of Christ on Christmas, that could be the equal of Christians not doing the Santa thing.� But isn't it about the spirit of kindness and giving in the time of year where traditionally was the hard and difficult time of the year to survive of the land.

> We do not do Santa (or that bunny or fairy either) just cause it is like lying. We talk about it and the kids pretend and have plenty of fun with it that way, but we don't insist (as my mil would like us to do) that Santa brought presents. We focus
> the holiday on God's gift of His son and on Jesus gift of His life.� This is the theme of our life year round, no matter when Christ was born.� I am actually starting to have an interest in the Jewish holidays and traditions (this is the culture our Lord lived in).� I believe that in the future we may drastically alter how we view this holiday in light of the knowledge we are gaining of the origins of many of the traditions.
> �

Since when is consumerism non Christian?

> (non Christian, consumerism).
> Mary in Idaho (Christian is counter culture)

I'm not trying to offend you, Mary, just really interested in your viewpoint.Speaking from a Pagan perspective, I always appreciate it when those of varying religions, particularly Christians, are educated and open minded enough to acknowledge the roots of this holiday, and the fact that many popular traditions in modern America stem from those original roots.

> The tradition of bringing an evergreen tree indoors stems from a number of European traditions, but it's meaning is clear enough.� It is the representation of Life within the season of the "little death" or winter.� Christmas (or Yule) is the celebration of the Winter Solstice, which is the longest night and shortest day of the year.� As such it is the clebration of the birth/rebirth of the Sun god in many many cultures around the world, because the days grow longer from the Winter Solstice on until the Wheel of the Year turns at the Summer Solstice.� The word Yule is believed to come from the old Norse word "Iul" which means: Wheel.
>
> It was naturally logical for the Christains to choose the time of so many other religions' Sun God birth as the time for the Birth of the Son of God.� The Christian church adopted midwinter and the Winter Solstice as the birth of Christ in 273 AD, for the reasons Mary mentioned (conversion) but also for another reason.� As St Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople a century later explained:� "The Nativity of the 'Sun of Righteousness' had been so fixed in order that while the heathen were busied with their profane rights, the Christians might perform their holy ones without disturbance."
>
> Well, I think of Santa as the embodiment of the spirit of giving.� A jolly elf who represents the joy of sharing.� When the children outgrow the belief of Santa as a reality, they become part of the tradition of playing Santa.� We all do stockings here, including adults, and have a lot of fun with it.� Santa is part of the magic of the season, which is a celebration of life and loved ones, and a reaffirmation that spring will come again, bringing the warmth of the Sun with it.
>
> Nanci K. in Idaho

Very well said Nanci!

> I understand your beliefs, and I respect them, but I ahve a question on this one--what about letting children learn to love the mysteries of life?� I know my paretns told me stories of faries and elves, santa and the easter bunny, knomes and angels, and today I am a Christian.� I wouldnt have beena ble to become a believer of something so abstract as the bible (a book not written by anyone I know) and in Jesus (someone I technically have never met) without understanding that there are many mysteries in life.� Just something to think about--
> and Santa isnt lying, if you make him out to be the spirit of giving, which we have with our childrne.
>
> Rachael

Exactly Rachael.

> My experience is the opposite.� When children realize that adults have been lying to them about the easter bunny and Santa Claus,� they inevitably wonder what else they have been lied to about.� Some become cynical -- which is harder to undo than is creating a sense of the miraculous.� (I'd be quite willing to bet -- if Quakers didn't have a testimony against gambling -- that more Christians have been unmade that
> way than made.) We choose to celebrate the mysterious (the writing of the Mozart Requiem or the painting the Sistine Chapel) or the miraculous (the original creation of life from inorganic matter)
>
> The bigger challenge for me has always been making sure children are in charge of their own fantasy play -- in our culture, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are just one step removed from Barbie and G.I. Joe.� We know that our kids can do better, A LOT better, than this if we just give them the opportunity.
>
> David Albert

How many of us were brought up believing in Santa, etc.� I'd say close to all?� Maybe I'm way off base but others would say that the bible is a work of fiction.� I do not think believing in the abstract is lying or damaging.� It is all in how you handle it.� Just a thought.

> LOL, my kids still believe in Santa, and they are in their 20's...
>
> Charlotte

Hey, I still keep on looking for my Santa gifts and I am in my 30's.

> My family doesn't do Halloween either.� Everything that is done on Halloween, from bobbing for apples to wearing costumes, stems from pagan rituals.� Even making a jack-o-lantern.� Our church holds a Hallelujah Night which gives the families in our church an alternative.My kids love it.� No costumes, but lots of
> games, singing, and FOOD!
>
> And about the santa thing.� I have a friend of mine who honestly doesn't let anything into his family's house that has anything to do with santa.� He thinks it's a little peculiar that the letters from Santa also spell satan. :-)� Anyway, we aren't that strict but we don't do santa, fairies or bunnies either.
> I believe my kids need to center their lives around the true meanings behind the holidays.� Not fairy tale myths or falsehoods.� Like you said it's just like lying.
>
> But that is the way my family is, not everyone celebrates that way and that's cool.� Everyone has their own view points. Mine just happens to be right!� Just kidding!� I'm trying to put a joke in here or there!!� Just to lighten things up a little.
>
> Bless you!
> Living for Him,
> Faith

I agree with celebrating and creating traditions that fit with your values.� I know many churches that have kind of taken a different approach.� But I do not really agree with the churches that say it is a satanic holiday and then have the kids come in costumes and get treats from other church members and play games.� To the kids it is Halloween at church instead of trick or treating and/or going to parties.� Our neighbor tried that approach and it did not work.� The child said he went trick or treating at church!

> Nanci, you said this so well, I just want to repeat and reaffirm it.
>
> Betsy

> Hi there!� Don't y'all go tryin' to ruin Christmas for me... I'm in my 30's and I choose to still believe in Santa Claus.� One of my 3 sons doesn't, and that's fine.� Neither does my husband, and that's fine, too.� Doesn't bother me a bit... but, for me, Santa.. or at least the idea of Santa.. is still very much alive and real.
>
> Driving past Santa's house today...
> Monica

> Betsy,� thanks for reposting it.. I missed it the first time around... and Nanci, what you wrote is just what I think and feel, too!
>
> Happy Holidays!
> Monica

> I'm with you Monica!� I collect Santas and treasure them.� They
> remind be that it's more blessed to give than to receive.� My parents taught me that Santa was the spirit of giving and I have passed that on to my own children.� My daughter was a little miffed when she discovered that we were behind the gifts that she received,� but she's 19 now and has no objection to the fact that Santa still finds her.

My dd was born on Dec 3rd, too.� We start our Christmas tradition with her birthday, we try to get the tree up on her birthday or the weekend of.

> Nanci,
> I could highlight and copy your whole post and say "well said"!
> I don't think it really matters when Christ was born, it is the one specific time that the world can come to a something close to peace.� I love Santa, it is fun, but hey, I was raised in a time when we had a haunted house in the basement of our church.� Halloween was a time of fun and joy for the kids,
> and people weren't lecturing us that it was the celebration of Satan,� maybe in other countries it was, but it was never that intent here and as a child we had such fun, dressing up and getting free candy, and roaming for hours outside, at night! by ourselves!� Can't do that today.� Wow, how did I get to Halloween from Christmas? LOL,� To get back to the point, Christmas for us is a beautiful time, your family makes it what it is, and you do what you want.
> I love the hustle and bustle, the carols and everything that goes with it.� Heck, my boys were born, Dec 3 and Dec 24.� We have a joint birthday party the second weekend of Dec.� We have friends and family, at our home, the kids play all day inside, outside, where ever.� The parents then have their party
> in the evening, and I usually end up with about 7or 8 little boys spending the night and half the next day.� We just hang out, cook burgers on the grill, order pizza the next day.� It is a fun time for all the families.
> Sorry, seems I am replying to everybody's posts on holidays and bday parties!
> Teresa

I know this is very long and I included a lot of others posts here but this is a very interesting and varied subject among us.� Just wanted to give another viewpoint and agree/disagree with others opinions.� I'm not trying to light the fires for bashing, just trying to learn others beliefs.

Andi on digest