TV is bad
Julie Stauffer
Everyone pretty much agrees that television and movies are more violent and
sexually oriented than in the past. Everyone pretty much agrees that
television and movies permeate our culture. So if viewing television and
movies makes a person more likely to commit violent acts.....why are crime
rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime?
Julie
sexually oriented than in the past. Everyone pretty much agrees that
television and movies permeate our culture. So if viewing television and
movies makes a person more likely to commit violent acts.....why are crime
rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime?
Julie
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/02 11:43:18 AM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< Everyone pretty much agrees that television and movies are more violent and
sexually oriented than in the past. Everyone pretty much agrees that
television and movies permeate our culture. >>
There are more porn books than in the past too, but my kids aren't reading
them.
I don't limit books because there's some trash being published.
<<So if viewing television and
movies makes a person more likely to commit violent acts.....why are crime
rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime?
<heee hehehe>
What causes violent crime anyway? I was just thinking about this.
If violent crime has such factors as frustration, feelings of powerlessness,
revenge, general resentment, perceived failure (one of school's special gifts
to over half of their 'customers'), low self-esteem or the habit of being
easily swayed by peer groups, then it seems to me that unschoolers aren't at
much risk of becoming violent and even if Clockwork-Orange style we exposed
them to every Arnold Schwartzenegger movie without sleep or food, they would
probably take the toothpicks out and ask questions about special effects and
Austrian accents.
Sandra, whose kids aren't violent, whose kids laugh a lot, and watch all the
TV they want, which usually isn't much.
<< Everyone pretty much agrees that television and movies are more violent and
sexually oriented than in the past. Everyone pretty much agrees that
television and movies permeate our culture. >>
There are more porn books than in the past too, but my kids aren't reading
them.
I don't limit books because there's some trash being published.
<<So if viewing television and
movies makes a person more likely to commit violent acts.....why are crime
rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime?
>>PBS??
<heee hehehe>
What causes violent crime anyway? I was just thinking about this.
If violent crime has such factors as frustration, feelings of powerlessness,
revenge, general resentment, perceived failure (one of school's special gifts
to over half of their 'customers'), low self-esteem or the habit of being
easily swayed by peer groups, then it seems to me that unschoolers aren't at
much risk of becoming violent and even if Clockwork-Orange style we exposed
them to every Arnold Schwartzenegger movie without sleep or food, they would
probably take the toothpicks out and ask questions about special effects and
Austrian accents.
Sandra, whose kids aren't violent, whose kids laugh a lot, and watch all the
TV they want, which usually isn't much.
Judith Barish
At 12:01 PM -0500 4/15/02, Julie Stauffer wrote:
think anyone claims that TV and movies are the only factor causing
crime. (The quick answer for why crime rates are down is that the
size of the criminal age-group is down. Most crimes are committed by
men between the ages of 15 and 30. This cohort has been declining for
several years and will keep dropping for several more. Another factor
is change in the laws which has led to many criminals being locked up
longer, but whether that makes much difference in crime rates is
harder to say.)
Judith
--
>Everyone pretty much agrees that television and movies are more violent andWell, because TV-viewing is not the sole cause of violence. I don't
>sexually oriented than in the past. Everyone pretty much agrees that
>television and movies permeate our culture. So if viewing television and
>movies makes a person more likely to commit violent acts.....why are crime
>rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime?
>
think anyone claims that TV and movies are the only factor causing
crime. (The quick answer for why crime rates are down is that the
size of the criminal age-group is down. Most crimes are committed by
men between the ages of 15 and 30. This cohort has been declining for
several years and will keep dropping for several more. Another factor
is change in the laws which has led to many criminals being locked up
longer, but whether that makes much difference in crime rates is
harder to say.)
Judith
--
sharon childs
Since when are crime rates down?? Maybe because of 9-11 or maybe in your
area, but certainly they are not down around Las Vegas, Nevada
Just for the record everybody, this t.v. conversation good versus bad has
been going on forever. The first time I ever saw a television set was 1950
( I remember trying to figure out how they could have gotten all those
people to fit in there!). Within ten years I was hearing the controversy,
we got it from our teachers, grandparents, etc. You will probably never
convince each other to come around to your way of thinking but I am enjoying
the debate tremendously.
Sharon
area, but certainly they are not down around Las Vegas, Nevada
Just for the record everybody, this t.v. conversation good versus bad has
been going on forever. The first time I ever saw a television set was 1950
( I remember trying to figure out how they could have gotten all those
people to fit in there!). Within ten years I was hearing the controversy,
we got it from our teachers, grandparents, etc. You will probably never
convince each other to come around to your way of thinking but I am enjoying
the debate tremendously.
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:01 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] TV is bad
> Everyone pretty much agrees that television and movies are more violent
and
> sexually oriented than in the past. Everyone pretty much agrees that
> television and movies permeate our culture. So if viewing television and
> movies makes a person more likely to commit violent acts.....why are crime
> rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime?
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Lynda
Oh, I know the answer to that one and it is that they aren't! However, the
way of reporting them has changed.
I worked for a mid-sized city and went along to a police chiefs convention.
They discussed ways to improve the public image and one of those ways was
how police reports were handled.
For example, unexplained deaths in the past were placed in the unsolved
homicides column, now they aren't. If your house is burglarized, not all
police agencies will send someone out to take a report. They will advise
the homeowner to come in and fill out a form. Lots of people won't do that,
they just let it slide. If an officer is called out on a dv and all he does
is arrest one of the parties on a drunk in public, it doesn't go down in the
record as a dv.
Just a couple of years ago, where we live now, this was brought to the
attention of the police force at the convention that was held at the local
university. Our crime stats are astrinomical because absolutely everything
was being reported and an officer was sent out on absolutely every call
dispatch received. Also, if dispatch received a call as dv, even if no
police action was taken.
Lynda
way of reporting them has changed.
I worked for a mid-sized city and went along to a police chiefs convention.
They discussed ways to improve the public image and one of those ways was
how police reports were handled.
For example, unexplained deaths in the past were placed in the unsolved
homicides column, now they aren't. If your house is burglarized, not all
police agencies will send someone out to take a report. They will advise
the homeowner to come in and fill out a form. Lots of people won't do that,
they just let it slide. If an officer is called out on a dv and all he does
is arrest one of the parties on a drunk in public, it doesn't go down in the
record as a dv.
Just a couple of years ago, where we live now, this was brought to the
attention of the police force at the convention that was held at the local
university. Our crime stats are astrinomical because absolutely everything
was being reported and an officer was sent out on absolutely every call
dispatch received. Also, if dispatch received a call as dv, even if no
police action was taken.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:01 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] TV is bad
> Everyone pretty much agrees that television and movies are more violent
and
> sexually oriented than in the past. Everyone pretty much agrees that
> television and movies permeate our culture. So if viewing television and
> movies makes a person more likely to commit violent acts.....why are crime
> rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime?
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/2002 11:40:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
sugarcrafter@... writes:
down almost everywhere.
From the Las Vegas Review-Journal, Monday, January 1, 2001
In 1996, there were 168 homicide cases, a record high. By the close of 2000,
the number of homicide cases had dropped to 95 for the year.
The police department -- which serves Las Vegas and about 7,400 square miles
of unincorporated areas of Clark County -- recorded a 16 percent dip in
homicides for 2000, compared with 1999.
Urban areas throughout the nation have recorded similar decreases in their
homicide and violent crime rates in recent years.
It is the fourth consecutive year that homicides have declined by double
digits, and the tally for 2000 represents another benchmark in Las Vegas
history.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sugarcrafter@... writes:
> Since when are crime rates down?? Maybe because of 9-11 or maybe in yourPeople feel like violence is up - but, in fact, the violent crime rate is
> area, but certainly they are not down around Las Vegas, Nevada
down almost everywhere.
From the Las Vegas Review-Journal, Monday, January 1, 2001
In 1996, there were 168 homicide cases, a record high. By the close of 2000,
the number of homicide cases had dropped to 95 for the year.
The police department -- which serves Las Vegas and about 7,400 square miles
of unincorporated areas of Clark County -- recorded a 16 percent dip in
homicides for 2000, compared with 1999.
Urban areas throughout the nation have recorded similar decreases in their
homicide and violent crime rates in recent years.
It is the fourth consecutive year that homicides have declined by double
digits, and the tally for 2000 represents another benchmark in Las Vegas
history.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/2002 11:56:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jbarish@... writes:
dealt with more often before it results in violent crime.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jbarish@... writes:
> (The quick answer for why crime rates are down is that theAnother reason is that domestic violence is being taken more seriously and
> size of the criminal age-group is down. Most crimes are committed by
> men between the ages of 15 and 30. This cohort has been declining for
> several years and will keep dropping for several more. Another factor
> is change in the laws which has led to many criminals being locked up
> longer, but whether that makes much difference in crime rates is
> harder to say.)
dealt with more often before it results in violent crime.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/02 12:56:15 PM, jbarish@... writes:
<< Well, because TV-viewing is not the sole cause of violence. I don't
think anyone claims that TV and movies are the only factor causing
crime. >>
If that were true there would have been no crime before 1950!
Do you think before then they blamed listening to the radio?
And what before radio? Reading newspapers and becoming desensitized to
stories of outlaws shooting lawmen?
Before the printing press? Why might there have been crime in the 1300's?
It's spurious to blame TV. People want a magical sacrifice. They want
things to DO to save their children, like forbidding TV, limiting sodas,
having a set bedtime, and by performing those magical sacrifices, they hope
to ensure an outcome impressive to the neighbors and grandparents.
Sandra
<< Well, because TV-viewing is not the sole cause of violence. I don't
think anyone claims that TV and movies are the only factor causing
crime. >>
If that were true there would have been no crime before 1950!
Do you think before then they blamed listening to the radio?
And what before radio? Reading newspapers and becoming desensitized to
stories of outlaws shooting lawmen?
Before the printing press? Why might there have been crime in the 1300's?
It's spurious to blame TV. People want a magical sacrifice. They want
things to DO to save their children, like forbidding TV, limiting sodas,
having a set bedtime, and by performing those magical sacrifices, they hope
to ensure an outcome impressive to the neighbors and grandparents.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/2002 1:43:20 PM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< .why are crime
rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime? >>
I've not seen these stats. Do you have a reference I could read? Kimme
<< .why are crime
rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime? >>
I've not seen these stats. Do you have a reference I could read? Kimme
[email protected]
**And what before radio? Reading newspapers and becoming desensitized to
stories of outlaws shooting lawmen?**
No, the Penny Dreadfuls! :) (I just LOVE that term)
http://www.chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk/pennydread.htm
I just went looking and found this site, which compares the current blaming
of violence on movies with the nineteeth century blaming of violence on the
dime novels/penny dreadfuls. A short excerpt:
"Similar concern over violence presented as entertainment was felt a century
earlier. Rising juvenile crime rates from the mid to late nineteenth century
coincided with an increase in working-class literacy and the growing
availability of 'penny dreadfuls', which were widely read by adolescent boys.
Usually sold in penny instalments (hence the title) these publications gave
the juvenile reader a weekly diet of murder, mystery and mayhem with a
smattering of piracy and highway robbery thrown in for good measure. They
were one of the earliest forms of literature to target children directly inste
ad of via their parents, catering for adolescent boys' tastes at a price they
could easily afford. Parents could not be sure their children did not read
penny dreadfuls any more than modern parents can be sure their children do
not watch violent videos. From the mid-nineteenth century onwards penny
dreadfuls provided an easy scapegoat for virtually all male juvenile crime.
Much of the concern came from clergymen, journalists and magistrates (18),
who seem to have assumed that the penny dreadful readership was almost
entirely young, working-class and male, exactly the audience that
twentieth-century commentators consider most at risk from the 'bad influence'
of video nasties."
:) The more things change ...
Oh, if anyone is interested in reading a "penny dreadful" or two, Standford
has put the text of several of them online, out of their enormous collection.
http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/dp/pennies/texts/dimes_toc.html
Deborah in IL
stories of outlaws shooting lawmen?**
No, the Penny Dreadfuls! :) (I just LOVE that term)
http://www.chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk/pennydread.htm
I just went looking and found this site, which compares the current blaming
of violence on movies with the nineteeth century blaming of violence on the
dime novels/penny dreadfuls. A short excerpt:
"Similar concern over violence presented as entertainment was felt a century
earlier. Rising juvenile crime rates from the mid to late nineteenth century
coincided with an increase in working-class literacy and the growing
availability of 'penny dreadfuls', which were widely read by adolescent boys.
Usually sold in penny instalments (hence the title) these publications gave
the juvenile reader a weekly diet of murder, mystery and mayhem with a
smattering of piracy and highway robbery thrown in for good measure. They
were one of the earliest forms of literature to target children directly inste
ad of via their parents, catering for adolescent boys' tastes at a price they
could easily afford. Parents could not be sure their children did not read
penny dreadfuls any more than modern parents can be sure their children do
not watch violent videos. From the mid-nineteenth century onwards penny
dreadfuls provided an easy scapegoat for virtually all male juvenile crime.
Much of the concern came from clergymen, journalists and magistrates (18),
who seem to have assumed that the penny dreadful readership was almost
entirely young, working-class and male, exactly the audience that
twentieth-century commentators consider most at risk from the 'bad influence'
of video nasties."
:) The more things change ...
Oh, if anyone is interested in reading a "penny dreadful" or two, Standford
has put the text of several of them online, out of their enormous collection.
http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/dp/pennies/texts/dimes_toc.html
Deborah in IL
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/2002 8:48:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
squeaksoup@... writes:
If you page down to the bottom - there is a table of FBI crime statistics for
a variety of different crimes, per 100,000 population, for the years 1960 to
2000.
Violent crime has been falling. Murders, for example, fell from a high of
10.2 in 1980 to 5.5 in 2000. The last time the murder rate was that low was
in 1964.
Rape was at its highest in 1992 at 42.8 and fell to 32.0 by 2000. The last
time the rape rate was that low was in 1978.
Robber was at its highest in 1991 at 272.7 and fell to 144.9 by 2000. The
last time the robber rate was that low was in 1968.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
squeaksoup@... writes:
> << .why are crimehttp://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
> rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime? >>
>
> I've not seen these stats. Do you have a reference I could read? Kimme
If you page down to the bottom - there is a table of FBI crime statistics for
a variety of different crimes, per 100,000 population, for the years 1960 to
2000.
Violent crime has been falling. Murders, for example, fell from a high of
10.2 in 1980 to 5.5 in 2000. The last time the murder rate was that low was
in 1964.
Rape was at its highest in 1992 at 42.8 and fell to 32.0 by 2000. The last
time the rape rate was that low was in 1978.
Robber was at its highest in 1991 at 272.7 and fell to 144.9 by 2000. The
last time the robber rate was that low was in 1968.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
So *reported* crime is down. That does not mean unreported crime
isn't climbing.
One thing I've noticed is an apparent increase in truly bizarre
crimes and happenings. Things like the guy in Ireland who killed a
woman by gluing her mouth shut.
Bridget
isn't climbing.
One thing I've noticed is an apparent increase in truly bizarre
crimes and happenings. Things like the guy in Ireland who killed a
woman by gluing her mouth shut.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., PSoroosh@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 4/15/2002 8:48:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> squeaksoup@a... writes:
>
>
> > << .why are crime
> > rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime? >>
> >
> > I've not seen these stats. Do you have a reference I could read?
Kimme
>
> http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
>
> If you page down to the bottom - there is a table of FBI crime
statistics for
> a variety of different crimes, per 100,000 population, for the years
1960 to
> 2000.
>
> Violent crime has been falling. Murders, for example, fell from a
high of
> 10.2 in 1980 to 5.5 in 2000. The last time the murder rate was that
low was
> in 1964.
>
> Rape was at its highest in 1992 at 42.8 and fell to 32.0 by 2000.
The last
> time the rape rate was that low was in 1978.
>
> Robber was at its highest in 1991 at 272.7 and fell to 144.9 by
2000. The
> last time the robber rate was that low was in 1968.
>
> --pamS
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Stauffer
<<I don't trust what the news says and I don't trust what the law
enforcement agencies say.....and I don't trust what the government says>>
Then you probably should trust a study that says tv causes violence either
...which is where this discussion started.
Julie
enforcement agencies say.....and I don't trust what the government says>>
Then you probably should trust a study that says tv causes violence either
...which is where this discussion started.
Julie
Tia Leschke
>So *reported* crime is down. That does not mean unreported crimeAre you sure it's actually an increase? Maybe the media is just bringing
>isn't climbing.
>
>One thing I've noticed is an apparent increase in truly bizarre
>crimes and happenings. Things like the guy in Ireland who killed a
>woman by gluing her mouth shut.
things to our attention now. I know it seems like there's a lot more
sexual abuse of children going on nowadays, but it was happening in the
early 1900s when my mother was little. You just never heard about it.
Also, how would a murder go unreported? If there's a body, or even when
someone goes missing, it gets reported and investigated. I can see
something like rape going unreported, because women are afraid of how
they'll be treated by the courts, etc. I can even see how B & Es might go
unreported, if people think nothing will be done. But I can't see violent
crimes other than rape going unreported.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
sharon childs
Since the crime discussion is still going on I would just like to say one
thing that proves violent crime is only getting worse. . . . .
September 11, 2002
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*·. .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
thing that proves violent crime is only getting worse. . . . .
September 11, 2002
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*·. .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
----- Original Message -----
From: "rumpleteasermom" <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 8:44 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
> So *reported* crime is down. That does not mean unreported crime
> isn't climbing.
>
> One thing I've noticed is an apparent increase in truly bizarre
> crimes and happenings. Things like the guy in Ireland who killed a
> woman by gluing her mouth shut.
>
> Bridget
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., PSoroosh@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 4/15/2002 8:48:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > squeaksoup@a... writes:
> >
> >
> > > << .why are crime
> > > rates down and continuing to drop, particularly violent crime? >>
> > >
> > > I've not seen these stats. Do you have a reference I could read?
> Kimme
> >
> > http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
> >
> > If you page down to the bottom - there is a table of FBI crime
> statistics for
> > a variety of different crimes, per 100,000 population, for the years
> 1960 to
> > 2000.
> >
> > Violent crime has been falling. Murders, for example, fell from a
> high of
> > 10.2 in 1980 to 5.5 in 2000. The last time the murder rate was that
> low was
> > in 1964.
> >
> > Rape was at its highest in 1992 at 42.8 and fell to 32.0 by 2000.
> The last
> > time the rape rate was that low was in 1978.
> >
> > Robber was at its highest in 1991 at 272.7 and fell to 144.9 by
> 2000. The
> > last time the robber rate was that low was in 1968.
> >
> > --pamS
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Tia Leschke
>Since the crime discussion is still going on I would just like to say oneI think that's comparing apples and oranges. September 11 happened for a
>thing that proves violent crime is only getting worse. . . . .
>
>September 11, 2002
lot of reasons, but not because violent crime is or isn't going up in North
America.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
sharon childs
Every crime that is commited is commited for lots of reasons. Have you
talked to many convicts or ex felons? Everybody has an agenda.
This was a crime that took place in North America.
It is YOUR opinion that it is comparing apples and oranges, not MY opinion.
Do you think nobody that was living here had anything to do with it. Or was
EVERYBODY involved a foreigner and you think that crimes commited in this
country by foreigners don't count? That certainly would lower the crime
rate.
Let's see how many illegal aliens are in this country? And they don't
commit crimes or it doesn't count?
See that is one of the differences here. I think all crimes count and you
want to be selective.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*·. .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
talked to many convicts or ex felons? Everybody has an agenda.
This was a crime that took place in North America.
It is YOUR opinion that it is comparing apples and oranges, not MY opinion.
Do you think nobody that was living here had anything to do with it. Or was
EVERYBODY involved a foreigner and you think that crimes commited in this
country by foreigners don't count? That certainly would lower the crime
rate.
Let's see how many illegal aliens are in this country? And they don't
commit crimes or it doesn't count?
See that is one of the differences here. I think all crimes count and you
want to be selective.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*·. .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tia Leschke" <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
>
> >Since the crime discussion is still going on I would just like to say one
> >thing that proves violent crime is only getting worse. . . . .
> >
> >September 11, 2002
>
> I think that's comparing apples and oranges. September 11 happened for a
> lot of reasons, but not because violent crime is or isn't going up in
North
> America.
> Tia
>
> No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
> Eleanor Roosevelt
> *********************************************
> Tia Leschke
> leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Lynda
Over half of all "missing" folks can be figured as dead and not by natural
causes. They are NOT reported as homicides. They are reported as
"missing."
"Missing" children are reported as "missing," not as kidnapped, murdered or
sexually abused unless they actually find a corpse. They stay in the
"missing" column, not in the violent crimes report.
They find lots of corpses where they can't prove a violent death. They know
it was violent but they can't prove it, so it goes in the "unexplained"
column.
And, reported doesn't equal investigated.
Domestic violence isn't "reported" unless they make an arrest. Frequently
they don't.
Lynda
causes. They are NOT reported as homicides. They are reported as
"missing."
"Missing" children are reported as "missing," not as kidnapped, murdered or
sexually abused unless they actually find a corpse. They stay in the
"missing" column, not in the violent crimes report.
They find lots of corpses where they can't prove a violent death. They know
it was violent but they can't prove it, so it goes in the "unexplained"
column.
And, reported doesn't equal investigated.
Domestic violence isn't "reported" unless they make an arrest. Frequently
they don't.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tia Leschke" <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
>
> >So *reported* crime is down. That does not mean unreported crime
> >isn't climbing.
> >
> >One thing I've noticed is an apparent increase in truly bizarre
> >crimes and happenings. Things like the guy in Ireland who killed a
> >woman by gluing her mouth shut.
>
> Are you sure it's actually an increase? Maybe the media is just bringing
> things to our attention now. I know it seems like there's a lot more
> sexual abuse of children going on nowadays, but it was happening in the
> early 1900s when my mother was little. You just never heard about it.
>
> Also, how would a murder go unreported? If there's a body, or even when
> someone goes missing, it gets reported and investigated. I can see
> something like rape going unreported, because women are afraid of how
> they'll be treated by the courts, etc. I can even see how B & Es might go
> unreported, if people think nothing will be done. But I can't see violent
> crimes other than rape going unreported.
> Tia
>
> No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
> Eleanor Roosevelt
> *********************************************
> Tia Leschke
> leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Tia Leschke <leschke@i...> wrote:
bizarre-ness is increasing more than just crime.
check here:
http://www.artbell.com/
for a taste of what I mean.
isn't found it isn't always listed as murder. Other times that it
might go unreported - made to look like suicide, made to look
accidental, etc. I can't say how much this happens but I believe it
does.
ways, violent crime against someone who is breaking drug or
prostitution laws, violence that happens in the public school system.
I do believe that the stats are not an accurate picture of society. I
think violence is up overall. BUT - I don't think we live in such a
dangerous world that we all have to turn our homes into arsenals and
castles and I'm not afraid to walk through a dark parking lot (unless
I know it's a bad area to begin with).
Bridget
>bringing
> >So *reported* crime is down. That does not mean unreported crime
> >isn't climbing.
> >
> >One thing I've noticed is an apparent increase in truly bizarre
> >crimes and happenings. Things like the guy in Ireland who killed a
> >woman by gluing her mouth shut.
>
> Are you sure it's actually an increase? Maybe the media is just
> things to our attention now. II think it is a little of both actually, but I do think the
bizarre-ness is increasing more than just crime.
check here:
http://www.artbell.com/
for a taste of what I mean.
>when
> Also, how would a murder go unreported? If there's a body, or even
> someone goes missing, it gets reported and investigated.But many missing persons are not listed as murdered. If the body
isn't found it isn't always listed as murder. Other times that it
might go unreported - made to look like suicide, made to look
accidental, etc. I can't say how much this happens but I believe it
does.
> I can seehow
> something like rape going unreported, because women are afraid of
> they'll be treated by the courts, etc. I can even see how B & Esmight go
> unreported, if people think nothing will be done. But I can't seeviolent
> crimes other than rape going unreported.Other violent crimes that might go unreported - fighting that went two
> Tia
ways, violent crime against someone who is breaking drug or
prostitution laws, violence that happens in the public school system.
I do believe that the stats are not an accurate picture of society. I
think violence is up overall. BUT - I don't think we live in such a
dangerous world that we all have to turn our homes into arsenals and
castles and I'm not afraid to walk through a dark parking lot (unless
I know it's a bad area to begin with).
Bridget
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "sharon childs" <sugarcrafter@u...>
wrote:
violent is no longer a crime but rather an act of war.
But, I've been thinking a lot about suicide bombers lately and I have
to wonder what happens to make them willing to do that? How desperate
do their lives have to be? How much have they lost hope that things
can improve?
Bridget
wrote:
> Every crime that is commited is commited for lots of reasons.Sharon, mostly, I agree. There is no definite line that says somethig
violent is no longer a crime but rather an act of war.
But, I've been thinking a lot about suicide bombers lately and I have
to wonder what happens to make them willing to do that? How desperate
do their lives have to be? How much have they lost hope that things
can improve?
Bridget
Tia Leschke
>I thought Dubya said it was an act of war.
>This was a crime that took place in North America.
>It is YOUR opinion that it is comparing apples and oranges, not MY opinion.Of course it's my opinion. Whatever I write is my opinion, not necessarily
someone else's.
>Do you think nobody that was living here had anything to do with it. Or wasOf course not.
>EVERYBODY involved a foreigner and you think that crimes commited in this
>country by foreigners don't count? That certainly would lower the crime
>rate.
> Let's see how many illegal aliens are in this country? And they don'tOf course their crimes count. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
>commit crimes or it doesn't count?
>See that is one of the differences here. I think all crimes count and youNo, I'm just saying that 9-11 was an act of war. The fact that the
>want to be selective.
perpetrators were temporarily living in the U.S. has nothing to do with
it. If your truth is that crime is going up, then so be it. Makes no
difference to me.
Tia
What you think of me is none of my business.
*********************************************************
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Camille Bauer
I would just like to say one
thing that proves violent crime is only getting worse. . . . .
September 11, 2002>>
That just proves that the government is getting worse :(
CamilleGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
thing that proves violent crime is only getting worse. . . . .
September 11, 2002>>
That just proves that the government is getting worse :(
CamilleGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Tia Leschke <leschke@i...> wrote:
more and more of Viet Nam. Congress has not declared us in a state of
war. As for acts that are criminal, how about bombing the Red Cross,
multiple times no less!
Bridget
>He did, but that doesn't make it one. This situation is reminding me
> >
> >This was a crime that took place in North America.
>
> I thought Dubya said it was an act of war.
>
>
more and more of Viet Nam. Congress has not declared us in a state of
war. As for acts that are criminal, how about bombing the Red Cross,
multiple times no less!
Bridget
[email protected]
Could we either not get into suicide bombers at the moment? OR at the least,
can we clearly label the thread? This is a very very touchy topic for me and
maybe others, at this time.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
can we clearly label the thread? This is a very very touchy topic for me and
maybe others, at this time.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
sharon childs
I hear ya loud and clear Lynda and I am gladd that I am not the only one that isn't buying this.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
> Over half of all "missing" folks can be figured as dead and not by natural
> causes. They are NOT reported as homicides. They are reported as
> "missing."
>
> "Missing" children are reported as "missing," not as kidnapped, murdered or
> sexually abused unless they actually find a corpse. They stay in the
> "missing" column, not in the violent crimes report.
>
> They find lots of corpses where they can't prove a violent death. They know
> it was violent but they can't prove it, so it goes in the "unexplained"
> column.
>
> And, reported doesn't equal investigated.
>
> Domestic violence isn't "reported" unless they make an arrest. Frequently
> they don't.
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tia Leschke" <leschke@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
>
>
> >
> > >So *reported* crime is down. That does not mean unreported crime
> > >isn't climbing.
> > >
> > >One thing I've noticed is an apparent increase in truly bizarre
> > >crimes and happenings. Things like the guy in Ireland who killed a
> > >woman by gluing her mouth shut.
> >
> > Are you sure it's actually an increase? Maybe the media is just bringing
> > things to our attention now. I know it seems like there's a lot more
> > sexual abuse of children going on nowadays, but it was happening in the
> > early 1900s when my mother was little. You just never heard about it.
> >
> > Also, how would a murder go unreported? If there's a body, or even when
> > someone goes missing, it gets reported and investigated. I can see
> > something like rape going unreported, because women are afraid of how
> > they'll be treated by the courts, etc. I can even see how B & Es might go
> > unreported, if people think nothing will be done. But I can't see violent
> > crimes other than rape going unreported.
> > Tia
> >
> > No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
> > Eleanor Roosevelt
> > *********************************************
> > Tia Leschke
> > leschke@...
> > On Vancouver Island
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sharon childs
I have put a lot lot lot of thought into that also and I really can not come
up with anything. Are they doing this from loyalty, from fear of some kind
of personal threat (maybe against their families or something), are they
brainwashed, are they mind controlled by maybe drugs and other things?
Nothing has ever made any sense to me regarding this. It is totally beyond
my comprehension.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
up with anything. Are they doing this from loyalty, from fear of some kind
of personal threat (maybe against their families or something), are they
brainwashed, are they mind controlled by maybe drugs and other things?
Nothing has ever made any sense to me regarding this. It is totally beyond
my comprehension.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
----- Original Message -----
From: "rumpleteasermom" <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:59 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "sharon childs" <sugarcrafter@u...>
> wrote:
> > Every crime that is commited is commited for lots of reasons.
>
>
> Sharon, mostly, I agree. There is no definite line that says somethig
> violent is no longer a crime but rather an act of war.
>
> But, I've been thinking a lot about suicide bombers lately and I have
> to wonder what happens to make them willing to do that? How desperate
> do their lives have to be? How much have they lost hope that things
> can improve?
>
> Bridget
>
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Lynda
Dumbya talks out both ends. He calls it an act of war unless he is talking
about the prisoners who have certain rights if it is war and then it is an
act of terrorism.
Lynda
about the prisoners who have certain rights if it is war and then it is an
act of terrorism.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tia Leschke" <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
>
> >
> >This was a crime that took place in North America.
>
> I thought Dubya said it was an act of war.
>
>
> >It is YOUR opinion that it is comparing apples and oranges, not MY
opinion.
>
> Of course it's my opinion. Whatever I write is my opinion, not
necessarily
> someone else's.
>
> >Do you think nobody that was living here had anything to do with it. Or
was
> >EVERYBODY involved a foreigner and you think that crimes commited in this
> >country by foreigners don't count? That certainly would lower the crime
> >rate.
>
> Of course not.
>
>
> > Let's see how many illegal aliens are in this country? And they don't
> >commit crimes or it doesn't count?
>
> Of course their crimes count. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
>
>
> >See that is one of the differences here. I think all crimes count and
you
> >want to be selective.
>
> No, I'm just saying that 9-11 was an act of war. The fact that the
> perpetrators were temporarily living in the U.S. has nothing to do with
> it. If your truth is that crime is going up, then so be it. Makes no
> difference to me.
> Tia
>
> What you think of me is none of my business.
> *********************************************************
> Tia Leschke leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
sharon childs
Now that is a good point too. You will never catch me arguing that.
My brother is in the secret service and hardly speaks to me because of
my"bad attitude" about the government.
Don't get me wrong though, I love this country and wouldn't want to live
anywhere else.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
My brother is in the secret service and hardly speaks to me because of
my"bad attitude" about the government.
Don't get me wrong though, I love this country and wouldn't want to live
anywhere else.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
----- Original Message -----
From: "Camille Bauer" <goddessofwisdom2@...>
To: "Unschooling_dotcom" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
> I would just like to say one
> thing that proves violent crime is only getting worse. . . . .
>
> September 11, 2002>>
>
> That just proves that the government is getting worse :(
>
> CamilleGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Valerie Cifuentes
Hi! I'm Valerie
We are new to unschooling but have been homeschooling for 7 years. One
year I lost my head and taught at a private school for tuition so my
children could attend. Anyway, I won't go into that.
We live in Camp LeJeune, NC. My DH is a Navy man of 14 years.
I have 3 kids, dd 14, dd 11, ds 9.
I have always tried to get around NOT doing some of our workbooks and I
never felt good about going over the same material over and over again.
Anyway, I know you have heard the same thing from others. I'm sure I'm
quite typical.
I have been lurking for most of the day.
I have a little opinion on the TV issue. Well, there are many rabbit
trails on here about them. :O)
I just wanted to introduce myself before I jumped in! :O)
desperate, bad or lacking in any way. They find that the Western culture
with all of it's modernization and frills is very evil, as well as any
modernization on that side of the world.
Starvation is considered the norm and violence is a part of their
religion.
They kill themselves because they are taught that this life has no value
whatsoever and paradise awaits them when they discard their earthly
flesh. When they murder innocent people they believe that they are being
merciful to those people by ending their corrupted lives. These bombers
are taught from their earliest youth that the only reason they are alive
is to die in "Holy Jihad" and to be with Allah very soon.
Notice that the bombers are very young, most not even in their 30's. I
think that their government has intensified it's teachings of Holy Jihad
in the last couple of decades.
The Navy is serving the Detainees and POW's in Camp X-Ray. My husband is
attached to the fleet hospital down there. He didn't have to go as he
was with Division at the time the hospital moved down there and he was
"left behind" (though he stands a 50/50 right now of having to deploy in
September for the change over.) The docs that come back are telling us
how young the detainees are. The average age is 15. Their lives were so
rugged that they can't believe the excellent treatment they are getting
in Camp X-ray!
They have never known what medical care really is! Needless to say,
quite a few claim to defect. But I don't believe it. They are so
brainwashed into the Jihad thing, it will take a lot to turn around that
powerfully evil teaching.
Anyway, don't want to get off on a tangent. :O) But this is an
interesting subject and my children and I have been following since
Sept. 11 as closely as possible.
Thanks for letting me share.
.· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Valerie Cifuentes
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*
I CAN NO LONGER ACCEPT FORWARDS, CHAIN LETTERS AND PETITIONS. THEY ARE
FILLING UP MY BOX AND TAKING UP MY TIME. THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING!
http://nolen.home.texas.net/valerie/Cifuentes.html
I'm A Navy Brat & Wife of HM2 Cifuentes; Active Duty Navy, & Mother of
Three Young Navy Brats!
*~*PLEASE HAVE PATIENCE AS I CHECK EMAIL ONCE IN THE MORNING & EVENING
AFTER 3:00PM AND NOT ON SUNDAY (THE LORD'S DAY.)*~*
-----Original Message-----
From: sharon childs [mailto:sugarcrafter@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
I have put a lot lot lot of thought into that also and I really can not
come
up with anything. Are they doing this from loyalty, from fear of some
kind
of personal threat (maybe against their families or something), are they
brainwashed, are they mind controlled by maybe drugs and other things?
Nothing has ever made any sense to me regarding this. It is totally
beyond
my comprehension.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
We are new to unschooling but have been homeschooling for 7 years. One
year I lost my head and taught at a private school for tuition so my
children could attend. Anyway, I won't go into that.
We live in Camp LeJeune, NC. My DH is a Navy man of 14 years.
I have 3 kids, dd 14, dd 11, ds 9.
I have always tried to get around NOT doing some of our workbooks and I
never felt good about going over the same material over and over again.
Anyway, I know you have heard the same thing from others. I'm sure I'm
quite typical.
I have been lurking for most of the day.
I have a little opinion on the TV issue. Well, there are many rabbit
trails on here about them. :O)
I just wanted to introduce myself before I jumped in! :O)
>>>>>But, I've been thinking a lot about suicide bombers lately and Ihave
> to wonder what happens to make them willing to do that? How desperateFrom what we have learned the bombers don't believe that their lives are
> do their lives have to be? How much have they lost hope that things
> can improve?<<<<
desperate, bad or lacking in any way. They find that the Western culture
with all of it's modernization and frills is very evil, as well as any
modernization on that side of the world.
Starvation is considered the norm and violence is a part of their
religion.
They kill themselves because they are taught that this life has no value
whatsoever and paradise awaits them when they discard their earthly
flesh. When they murder innocent people they believe that they are being
merciful to those people by ending their corrupted lives. These bombers
are taught from their earliest youth that the only reason they are alive
is to die in "Holy Jihad" and to be with Allah very soon.
Notice that the bombers are very young, most not even in their 30's. I
think that their government has intensified it's teachings of Holy Jihad
in the last couple of decades.
The Navy is serving the Detainees and POW's in Camp X-Ray. My husband is
attached to the fleet hospital down there. He didn't have to go as he
was with Division at the time the hospital moved down there and he was
"left behind" (though he stands a 50/50 right now of having to deploy in
September for the change over.) The docs that come back are telling us
how young the detainees are. The average age is 15. Their lives were so
rugged that they can't believe the excellent treatment they are getting
in Camp X-ray!
They have never known what medical care really is! Needless to say,
quite a few claim to defect. But I don't believe it. They are so
brainwashed into the Jihad thing, it will take a lot to turn around that
powerfully evil teaching.
Anyway, don't want to get off on a tangent. :O) But this is an
interesting subject and my children and I have been following since
Sept. 11 as closely as possible.
Thanks for letting me share.
>*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
.· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Valerie Cifuentes
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*
I CAN NO LONGER ACCEPT FORWARDS, CHAIN LETTERS AND PETITIONS. THEY ARE
FILLING UP MY BOX AND TAKING UP MY TIME. THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING!
http://nolen.home.texas.net/valerie/Cifuentes.html
I'm A Navy Brat & Wife of HM2 Cifuentes; Active Duty Navy, & Mother of
Three Young Navy Brats!
*~*PLEASE HAVE PATIENCE AS I CHECK EMAIL ONCE IN THE MORNING & EVENING
AFTER 3:00PM AND NOT ON SUNDAY (THE LORD'S DAY.)*~*
-----Original Message-----
From: sharon childs [mailto:sugarcrafter@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
I have put a lot lot lot of thought into that also and I really can not
come
up with anything. Are they doing this from loyalty, from fear of some
kind
of personal threat (maybe against their families or something), are they
brainwashed, are they mind controlled by maybe drugs and other things?
Nothing has ever made any sense to me regarding this. It is totally
beyond
my comprehension.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
----- Original Message -----
From: "rumpleteasermom" <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:59 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "sharon childs" <sugarcrafter@u...>
> wrote:
> > Every crime that is commited is commited for lots of reasons.
>
>
> Sharon, mostly, I agree. There is no definite line that says somethig
> violent is no longer a crime but rather an act of war.
>
> But, I've been thinking a lot about suicide bombers lately and I have
> to wonder what happens to make them willing to do that? How desperate
> do their lives have to be? How much have they lost hope that things
> can improve?
>
> Bridget
>
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line!
~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
081972:HM/A=1042587/R=0/*http:/service.bfast.com/bfast/click?bfmid=29150
849&siteid=39282504&bfpage=account>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egrou
pmail/S=1705081972:HM/A=1042587/rand=516918974>
~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sharon childs
Valerie welcome to the group and thank you for that information. It
certainly explains something I have tried so long to understand. How
terribly sad!
Sharon
certainly explains something I have tried so long to understand. How
terribly sad!
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valerie Cifuentes" <homeschool@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:41 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Hi! I'm new
Hi! I'm Valerie
We are new to unschooling but have been homeschooling for 7 years. One
year I lost my head and taught at a private school for tuition so my
children could attend. Anyway, I won't go into that.
We live in Camp LeJeune, NC. My DH is a Navy man of 14 years.
I have 3 kids, dd 14, dd 11, ds 9.
I have always tried to get around NOT doing some of our workbooks and I
never felt good about going over the same material over and over again.
Anyway, I know you have heard the same thing from others. I'm sure I'm
quite typical.
I have been lurking for most of the day.
I have a little opinion on the TV issue. Well, there are many rabbit
trails on here about them. :O)
I just wanted to introduce myself before I jumped in! :O)
>>>>>But, I've been thinking a lot about suicide bombers lately and I
have
> to wonder what happens to make them willing to do that? How desperate
> do their lives have to be? How much have they lost hope that things
> can improve?<<<<
From what we have learned the bombers don't believe that their lives are
desperate, bad or lacking in any way. They find that the Western culture
with all of it's modernization and frills is very evil, as well as any
modernization on that side of the world.
Starvation is considered the norm and violence is a part of their
religion.
They kill themselves because they are taught that this life has no value
whatsoever and paradise awaits them when they discard their earthly
flesh. When they murder innocent people they believe that they are being
merciful to those people by ending their corrupted lives. These bombers
are taught from their earliest youth that the only reason they are alive
is to die in "Holy Jihad" and to be with Allah very soon.
Notice that the bombers are very young, most not even in their 30's. I
think that their government has intensified it's teachings of Holy Jihad
in the last couple of decades.
The Navy is serving the Detainees and POW's in Camp X-Ray. My husband is
attached to the fleet hospital down there. He didn't have to go as he
was with Division at the time the hospital moved down there and he was
"left behind" (though he stands a 50/50 right now of having to deploy in
September for the change over.) The docs that come back are telling us
how young the detainees are. The average age is 15. Their lives were so
rugged that they can't believe the excellent treatment they are getting
in Camp X-ray!
They have never known what medical care really is! Needless to say,
quite a few claim to defect. But I don't believe it. They are so
brainwashed into the Jihad thing, it will take a lot to turn around that
powerfully evil teaching.
Anyway, don't want to get off on a tangent. :O) But this is an
interesting subject and my children and I have been following since
Sept. 11 as closely as possible.
Thanks for letting me share.
>
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
.· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Valerie Cifuentes
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*
I CAN NO LONGER ACCEPT FORWARDS, CHAIN LETTERS AND PETITIONS. THEY ARE
FILLING UP MY BOX AND TAKING UP MY TIME. THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING!
http://nolen.home.texas.net/valerie/Cifuentes.html
I'm A Navy Brat & Wife of HM2 Cifuentes; Active Duty Navy, & Mother of
Three Young Navy Brats!
*~*PLEASE HAVE PATIENCE AS I CHECK EMAIL ONCE IN THE MORNING & EVENING
AFTER 3:00PM AND NOT ON SUNDAY (THE LORD'S DAY.)*~*
-----Original Message-----
From: sharon childs [mailto:sugarcrafter@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
I have put a lot lot lot of thought into that also and I really can not
come
up with anything. Are they doing this from loyalty, from fear of some
kind
of personal threat (maybe against their families or something), are they
brainwashed, are they mind controlled by maybe drugs and other things?
Nothing has ever made any sense to me regarding this. It is totally
beyond
my comprehension.
.·:*´¨`*:·..·:*´¨`*:·.
*.* Sharon *.*
*· .·*
`*·-:¦:-*´
³´`*:»§«:*´`³
----- Original Message -----
From: "rumpleteasermom" <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:59 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV is bad
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "sharon childs" <sugarcrafter@u...>
> wrote:
> > Every crime that is commited is commited for lots of reasons.
>
>
> Sharon, mostly, I agree. There is no definite line that says somethig
> violent is no longer a crime but rather an act of war.
>
> But, I've been thinking a lot about suicide bombers lately and I have
> to wonder what happens to make them willing to do that? How desperate
> do their lives have to be? How much have they lost hope that things
> can improve?
>
> Bridget
>
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line!
~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
081972:HM/A=1042587/R=0/*http:/service.bfast.com/bfast/click?bfmid=29150
849&siteid=39282504&bfpage=account>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egrou
pmail/S=1705081972:HM/A=1042587/rand=516918974>
~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website:
http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/