Re: Santa
[email protected]
shantinik@... writes:
<< My experience is the opposite. When children realize that adults have
been lying to them about the easter bunny and Santa Claus, they
inevitably wonder what else they have been lied to about. >>
I have never seen this happen.
When I found out that my mom was Santa, I distinctly remember thinking
"Wow...She's been doing all of that behind the scenes!"
I felt incredible love for her at that moment, and it adds an element of joy
and wonder to my Santa-ing that I can't even express! : )
Not to get overly religious on a non-religious message board, but I think of
Heaven that way too. There's quite a bit going on that we don't understand
fully. One day we'll *get it.* It's ok with me. <G>
Steph
<< My experience is the opposite. When children realize that adults have
been lying to them about the easter bunny and Santa Claus, they
inevitably wonder what else they have been lied to about. >>
I have never seen this happen.
When I found out that my mom was Santa, I distinctly remember thinking
"Wow...She's been doing all of that behind the scenes!"
I felt incredible love for her at that moment, and it adds an element of joy
and wonder to my Santa-ing that I can't even express! : )
Not to get overly religious on a non-religious message board, but I think of
Heaven that way too. There's quite a bit going on that we don't understand
fully. One day we'll *get it.* It's ok with me. <G>
Steph
[email protected]
nicole
Believing in santa *IS* christmas. Once you dont belive any more the
excitment of christmas is much less (until you have children in the
house again)
But I do know where you are coming from. I hated the thought of
lying to my children - so I always said that Santa only came to those
who believed in him.......This was not a lie!!!
Marianne
Believing in santa *IS* christmas. Once you dont belive any more the
excitment of christmas is much less (until you have children in the
house again)
But I do know where you are coming from. I hated the thought of
lying to my children - so I always said that Santa only came to those
who believed in him.......This was not a lie!!!
Marianne
[email protected]
I have smart kids. When the oldest one started asking if Santa was real, we
asked what he thought. For about 2 more years he still declared his belief
in Santa. We noticed that he still enjoyed the Santa ritual even after he
knew the truth. It seemed reassuring to him to know that the adults in his
life loved him enough to play along. Also helped make us more accessible to
him because we were operating on a child level. That child is 22 now.
Next kidlet still won't admit anything less than Santa is real. Does not
want to deal with his loss. He's 12 this year. He's savvy enough that he
literally tells me he doesn't want to talk about it.
OTOH, same kid will go out of his way to be Santa for someone else. He
knows. But he loves the fun of anonymous gift giving which is attributed to
Santa. You never know who really took the time to find the 'whatever' you
got from Santa. Could be anyone around you. Nice to know there are people
who love you. I think Santa gives the older child or adult the opportunity
to count their blessings.
FWIW
Eiraul
asked what he thought. For about 2 more years he still declared his belief
in Santa. We noticed that he still enjoyed the Santa ritual even after he
knew the truth. It seemed reassuring to him to know that the adults in his
life loved him enough to play along. Also helped make us more accessible to
him because we were operating on a child level. That child is 22 now.
Next kidlet still won't admit anything less than Santa is real. Does not
want to deal with his loss. He's 12 this year. He's savvy enough that he
literally tells me he doesn't want to talk about it.
OTOH, same kid will go out of his way to be Santa for someone else. He
knows. But he loves the fun of anonymous gift giving which is attributed to
Santa. You never know who really took the time to find the 'whatever' you
got from Santa. Could be anyone around you. Nice to know there are people
who love you. I think Santa gives the older child or adult the opportunity
to count their blessings.
FWIW
Eiraul
Michelle Harper
When I was growing up, and found out my parents had
lied to me, and the whole adult world had lied to me, I was devistated. I
believe that stories that have good meaning should be told just like that as
stories. We have always told our son that Christmas was a time when the
people who loved you & who you loved shared gifts to symbolize the love we
have. That there is no Santa, and that Santa is a story about giving ,
without selfishness or the want of return, just out of pure Love , to show
someone you care. I do not think it is right to lie to my child, that
something exists or occurs that does not,a nd doing so would take away from the
real meaning of what we do when we send a gift far across the country to
Grandma or Grandpa, or another family member. GIving itself, and Loving
others itself, is magickal enough not to be distorted by truth & lies.
I know it was all intended in good fun, but the stories originated by an actual
person who used to walk through the streets giving gifts to people. I like
to emphasize the "Giving", in the "WInter" when times were sometimes harder, it
meant more to have a meal with family. ANd there are so many magickal ,
wonderous things going on around us every day..the change of the seasons, the
birth of a small cuddly animal, the returning of dead Poppy stalk to the earth
to nourish the seeds that have fallen in the patch..WHy dull these truly
Magickal occurences. What more do we truly need to add to enhance
life? I believe it is all in the finding of what is fascinating &
magickal in the everyday world that is important.
Michelle, Dana & Zain Harper
The Great NorthWest Washington
Legendary Tree & Landscape
The Great NorthWest Washington
Legendary Tree & Landscape
The White's
In Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll, the Unicorn tells Alice: "If
you believe in me, I'll believe in you. Is that a bargain?"
I think it's the same of Santa. Or anything else that requires faith. It
also encourages faith in oneself, which is the greatest gift.
Cindy, who still believes
you believe in me, I'll believe in you. Is that a bargain?"
I think it's the same of Santa. Or anything else that requires faith. It
also encourages faith in oneself, which is the greatest gift.
Cindy, who still believes
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
>When I was growing up, and found out my parents had lied to me, and >the whole adult world had lied to me, I was devistated.Life is full of mysteries, things we do not understand or cannot explain. I do not think that sharing the tradition of Santa Claus with a child is a destructive thing. It depends upon how it is shared, and how the child learns the true nature of Santa when they are old enough to grasp the abstract concept of the spirit of giving. Is a it a secret deception that the child "finds out" and feels betrayed about? Or is it a special sharing between parent and child that reinforces the message behind the fantasy and brings the child lovingly into the circle of giver, as well as reciever? It only becomes a lie if you believe you are lying.
>.......I do not think it is right to lie to my child, that something >exists or occurs that does not, .......I know it was all intended in >good fun,
>Michelle, Dana & Zain Harper
If you believe everything that you tell your child about it, you are not lying. It is believeing in intangibles, in the energy created by the belief of so many people around the world that makes a thing real. If I tell my child "I believe in Santa" that is true. I don't tell my children that Santa lives in the North Pole, but if I say that "Santa can be everywhere that he is believed in" that is true and what I believe, and also "Santa comes to the homes of everyone who believes in him, everywhere, during the holidays" because Santa is in all our hearts as an embodiment of our holiday spirit, and comes into our homes as he comes into our hearts. None of these are lies. I don't lie to my children, ever.
Nanci K.
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Nanci,
as usual, great job!
as usual, great job!
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
>Nanci,Thanks, I was beginning to wonder if the messages I sent ever went through to the group at all, since there was no comment on them.
>as usual, great job!
Nanci K.
------------------------------------------------------------
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Sign up at http://www.idahopagan.com/
[email protected]
We do Santa. Seemed impossible to avoid, and I was not totally comfortable
with excluding ds (now 4 yo) from that bit of our culture. When he has asked
if Santa is real I say something like, He isn't real like you and me, but he is
a spirit of giving and we can be part of Santa when we give. We're planning
to give someone something "in secret" this Christmas so we can be "part of
Santa." So I am just gradually broadening out the Santa image to be a
personification of the spirit of giving. I think I got this idea from "Living Joyfully
with Children" by Win and Bill Sweet. Ds seems to get this very well and then
any "deceptions" I have already practiced are just me being part of Santa.
Which makes sense to me anyway.
BTW, ds attributes quite a lot to Santa. We were talking about whether
parents choose their children or children choose their parents (i.e. before birth).
Ds didn't think so. When I asked him how the choice gets made, then, his
immediately response was that Santa decides!
Andrea
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with excluding ds (now 4 yo) from that bit of our culture. When he has asked
if Santa is real I say something like, He isn't real like you and me, but he is
a spirit of giving and we can be part of Santa when we give. We're planning
to give someone something "in secret" this Christmas so we can be "part of
Santa." So I am just gradually broadening out the Santa image to be a
personification of the spirit of giving. I think I got this idea from "Living Joyfully
with Children" by Win and Bill Sweet. Ds seems to get this very well and then
any "deceptions" I have already practiced are just me being part of Santa.
Which makes sense to me anyway.
BTW, ds attributes quite a lot to Santa. We were talking about whether
parents choose their children or children choose their parents (i.e. before birth).
Ds didn't think so. When I asked him how the choice gets made, then, his
immediately response was that Santa decides!
Andrea
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dawn Adams
Thanks for all the replies on Santa. I'm already backing off my no-Santa position. I'm a big waffler so I expect I'll swing back and forth quite a bit before I reach any real decision (the trick is not to act until then). I'm still not hot on Santa but It was for the wrong reasons I think, mainly my own guilt about lying. And there was a good point about trusting my kids to know when they don't want Santa in their life anymore. I forgot that they're a part of that fantasy as well and have a say in it.
I'll be thinking about this for awhile, thanks all,
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'll be thinking about this for awhile, thanks all,
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
catherine aceto
Well, just to muddy the waters, then. I'll throw in the opposite view. We don't treat Santa as a real/magical being and never have (kids are 6.5 and 1.5). Neither my husband nor I were comfortable doing what *we* would experience as lying to our children. We have always talked about Santa as a great pretend activity that happens around Christmas.
Lydia still has a great imagination and a great fantasy life and I can't see that it has hurt her in any way. So I'd say, if you enjoy Santa do it, but I don't think you should feel that you have to or that your children will be short-changed if you don't.
-Cat
Lydia still has a great imagination and a great fantasy life and I can't see that it has hurt her in any way. So I'd say, if you enjoy Santa do it, but I don't think you should feel that you have to or that your children will be short-changed if you don't.
-Cat
----- Original Message -----
From: Dawn Adams
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Santa
Thanks for all the replies on Santa. I'm already backing off my no-Santa position. I'm a big waffler so I expect I'll swing back and forth quite a bit before I reach any real decision (the trick is not to act until then). I'm still not hot on Santa but It was for the wrong reasons I think, mainly my own guilt about lying.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heather Hall
My dh and I had a hard time with this. He *really* was against Santa. I
loved Santa as a kid and pretended I believed for quite sometime after I
knew the reality. We ended up just not making a big deal out of it
ourselves and the Grandmas have sent presents from Santa. Last year I got
him to agree to do one each for the kids and I was like - 'Look! these are
from Santa!' and Harriet was looking at me like, 'yeah, and?'
Sigh.
Heather, mom to
Harriet 12.15.99
Crispin 01.25.02
heatherette@...
loved Santa as a kid and pretended I believed for quite sometime after I
knew the reality. We ended up just not making a big deal out of it
ourselves and the Grandmas have sent presents from Santa. Last year I got
him to agree to do one each for the kids and I was like - 'Look! these are
from Santa!' and Harriet was looking at me like, 'yeah, and?'
Sigh.
> That's what I've been thinking lately. Of course this comes after I already--
> had my daughter believing in Santa Claus. She loves fantasy and is always to
> blur the boundaries between reality and fantasy but she likes to know the
> boundaries first. I'm feeling pretty guilty that I've constructed this false
> character for my daughter. It doesn't mesh with the honesty and trust that are
> part
> of unschooling for me.
> So a question...I would like the Santa thing to end with Cahterine and not
> have Harry believing it as well. Has anyone else dug themselves out of the
> Santa
> mess after their child already believed?
> I know this will confirm with my relatives that I'm a hippie freak and with
> my in-laws that I'm out to spoil all the fun but I'm finally getting to the
> point where their opinions don't mean diddly where it runs counter to my
> daughter's interests.
>
> ********************************
> Well, we love Santa, and Julian believed, at least a little, until he was 11.
> He'd certainly been exposed to questions, but he let go when he wanted to. I
> consider that one of the greatest gifts we've had with unschooling... no
> pressure to let go before he wanted to.
>
> It's fantasy, and play, and magic.
> Kathryn
Heather, mom to
Harriet 12.15.99
Crispin 01.25.02
heatherette@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/22/2004 8:51:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
aceto3@... writes:
Well, just to muddy the waters, then. I'll throw in the opposite view. We
don't treat Santa as a real/magical being and never have (kids are 6.5 and
1.5). Neither my husband nor I were comfortable doing what *we* would
experience as lying to our children. We have always talked about Santa as a great
pretend activity that happens around Christmas.
Lydia still has a great imagination and a great fantasy life and I can't see
that it has hurt her in any way. So I'd say, if you enjoy Santa do it, but
I don't think you should feel that you have to or that your children will be
short-changed if you don't.
<<<<
This seems to be the "norm" among unschoolers. I was surprised that so many
chimed in in FAVOR of Santa! <g>
We really do up the Santa thang. I have a friend that dresses up and visits
the hospitals and children's homes. He comes here too. We "find" elves
whenever we trim the tree. We have leprechauns that wreak havoc on March 17th. That
pesky tooth fairy sprinkles fairy dust *everywhere*. And the Easter Bunny
leaves bunny poop and bunny dust all over the house, along with all those eggs.
We've kept canisters of "Monster-Be-Gone" in the cupboard and once outfitted
Cameron's room to keep the vampires away ("holy" water, crosses, garlic).
We also play up National Pie Day and Elephant Day and a bunch of other
"holidays". We love the fantasy of it all. It's all done in fun with no malice
intended, so the fun overshadows the "lies"----but none of us consider it lying.
It's fantasy---no different than living in Harry Potter-land or Hobbit-world
or Metropolis/Gotham City. It doesn't last long, so we enjoy it while we can.
They grow up so fast.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aceto3@... writes:
Well, just to muddy the waters, then. I'll throw in the opposite view. We
don't treat Santa as a real/magical being and never have (kids are 6.5 and
1.5). Neither my husband nor I were comfortable doing what *we* would
experience as lying to our children. We have always talked about Santa as a great
pretend activity that happens around Christmas.
Lydia still has a great imagination and a great fantasy life and I can't see
that it has hurt her in any way. So I'd say, if you enjoy Santa do it, but
I don't think you should feel that you have to or that your children will be
short-changed if you don't.
<<<<
This seems to be the "norm" among unschoolers. I was surprised that so many
chimed in in FAVOR of Santa! <g>
We really do up the Santa thang. I have a friend that dresses up and visits
the hospitals and children's homes. He comes here too. We "find" elves
whenever we trim the tree. We have leprechauns that wreak havoc on March 17th. That
pesky tooth fairy sprinkles fairy dust *everywhere*. And the Easter Bunny
leaves bunny poop and bunny dust all over the house, along with all those eggs.
We've kept canisters of "Monster-Be-Gone" in the cupboard and once outfitted
Cameron's room to keep the vampires away ("holy" water, crosses, garlic).
We also play up National Pie Day and Elephant Day and a bunch of other
"holidays". We love the fantasy of it all. It's all done in fun with no malice
intended, so the fun overshadows the "lies"----but none of us consider it lying.
It's fantasy---no different than living in Harry Potter-land or Hobbit-world
or Metropolis/Gotham City. It doesn't last long, so we enjoy it while we can.
They grow up so fast.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela
I'm conflicted about the whole Santa thing.
When the kids were very small I never considered not playing out the Santa
fantasy. I love Santa! I still remember when I found out he was fantasy.
I was in third grade and the kids went around the table asking if you
believed in Santa. No one said yes, and I didn't either. But that was the
first time I questioned it. I asked my mother and she said that if I didn't
believe, he wouldn't come. I've believed ever since. ;0) I didn't feel
betrayed by my mother at all, though.
Then one day I was talking with a cousin who also homeschools her children
and she said she told her kids from the start that Santa wasn't real. At
first I thought it was awful for her to ruin the fantasy part of Christmas
but after giving it some thought I started to feel bad that I had lied to my
children about this, but been very honest with them in all other regards.
The reason she told her kids from the start that Santa was fantasy is
because she felt like she was the last one to learn the truth and she felt
her mother had lied to her. She lived next to the school and one day in 5th
grade all the kids were saying that Santa wasn't real. She went home and
asked her mother and her mother didn't tell her the truth and she went back
to school and argued it with the kids. In the end she ended up feeling
stupid and lied to. (If my kids asked, I would either tell them the truth,
though.)
Over the years it has seemed like I've had to keep lying and changing the
lies to keep it under wraps. (or sometimes I just say I don't know...this
is what happened when I was little.) Over the last few years I've tried not
to lie outright about Santa but put it a little differently......"we'd
better get to bed, *they say* Santa only comes when you are fast asleep."
(kind of like Sandra mentioned.)
From the time the kids were small we had gifts from Santa and gifts from us.
Santa fills the stockings and leaves a few small gifts and the rest is from
us. I can't really change that now but it has always been confusing for me
because I can never remember what gifts were from Santa and what were from
us, after the fact. So two months later when a mom asks me where we got
something, I'm likely to say enthusiastically, oh, I got that on ebay for
only $5, to which my children pipe up..."no you didn't, we got that from
Santa!" Agh!!! I've done that more times than I care to mention. I am
getting better at saying "we got it for Christmas, (and tell the details
later) but I still forget in my enthusiasm to share a good idea or good
deal.) My kids have always asked why we need to give to charities at
Christmas time. Doesn't Santa give presents to everyone? Having gifts
from both Santa and us made it easier to answer that question...Santa only
fills stocking and brings a few small gifts, but the kids seem to think
they'd be perfectly happy with just the Santa gifts, so why isn't everyone
else?
But as my oldest gets older (she's almost 10) I have begun to worry more
about her learning the truth and feeling betrayed. Obviously, she doesn't
go to school so she won't be questioned there. She has one very close
friend who also believes. She also plays with cousins somewhat regularly
but I am not sure if they would talk about that. Will she ever learn the
truth or will I have to sneak into her house when she is grown up to deliver
presents to her kids? LOL! She is very analytical so part of me wonders if
she didn't figure it out years ago and just wants to believe so badly that
she's willing to overlook the inconsistencies. If she asks for the truth I
will certainly tell her but until both my girls know I think I will feel a
little unease somewhere in the back of my mind about it. I wish I'd been a
little more mysterious about it instead of seeming like I had the facts when
they were smaller. I did tell them that the santas in stores are not the
real Santa....but that feels like a lie too, for goodness sakes. (it
indicates that there is a *real* Santa.)
I love z"Yes Virginia, There is a Santa Claus" and I've always thought I'd
read that to the kids when they question me. Sometimes thing happen off the
cuff here though and I forget what I've planned. We'll see, I guess.
Angela ~ the conflicted
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When the kids were very small I never considered not playing out the Santa
fantasy. I love Santa! I still remember when I found out he was fantasy.
I was in third grade and the kids went around the table asking if you
believed in Santa. No one said yes, and I didn't either. But that was the
first time I questioned it. I asked my mother and she said that if I didn't
believe, he wouldn't come. I've believed ever since. ;0) I didn't feel
betrayed by my mother at all, though.
Then one day I was talking with a cousin who also homeschools her children
and she said she told her kids from the start that Santa wasn't real. At
first I thought it was awful for her to ruin the fantasy part of Christmas
but after giving it some thought I started to feel bad that I had lied to my
children about this, but been very honest with them in all other regards.
The reason she told her kids from the start that Santa was fantasy is
because she felt like she was the last one to learn the truth and she felt
her mother had lied to her. She lived next to the school and one day in 5th
grade all the kids were saying that Santa wasn't real. She went home and
asked her mother and her mother didn't tell her the truth and she went back
to school and argued it with the kids. In the end she ended up feeling
stupid and lied to. (If my kids asked, I would either tell them the truth,
though.)
Over the years it has seemed like I've had to keep lying and changing the
lies to keep it under wraps. (or sometimes I just say I don't know...this
is what happened when I was little.) Over the last few years I've tried not
to lie outright about Santa but put it a little differently......"we'd
better get to bed, *they say* Santa only comes when you are fast asleep."
(kind of like Sandra mentioned.)
From the time the kids were small we had gifts from Santa and gifts from us.
Santa fills the stockings and leaves a few small gifts and the rest is from
us. I can't really change that now but it has always been confusing for me
because I can never remember what gifts were from Santa and what were from
us, after the fact. So two months later when a mom asks me where we got
something, I'm likely to say enthusiastically, oh, I got that on ebay for
only $5, to which my children pipe up..."no you didn't, we got that from
Santa!" Agh!!! I've done that more times than I care to mention. I am
getting better at saying "we got it for Christmas, (and tell the details
later) but I still forget in my enthusiasm to share a good idea or good
deal.) My kids have always asked why we need to give to charities at
Christmas time. Doesn't Santa give presents to everyone? Having gifts
from both Santa and us made it easier to answer that question...Santa only
fills stocking and brings a few small gifts, but the kids seem to think
they'd be perfectly happy with just the Santa gifts, so why isn't everyone
else?
But as my oldest gets older (she's almost 10) I have begun to worry more
about her learning the truth and feeling betrayed. Obviously, she doesn't
go to school so she won't be questioned there. She has one very close
friend who also believes. She also plays with cousins somewhat regularly
but I am not sure if they would talk about that. Will she ever learn the
truth or will I have to sneak into her house when she is grown up to deliver
presents to her kids? LOL! She is very analytical so part of me wonders if
she didn't figure it out years ago and just wants to believe so badly that
she's willing to overlook the inconsistencies. If she asks for the truth I
will certainly tell her but until both my girls know I think I will feel a
little unease somewhere in the back of my mind about it. I wish I'd been a
little more mysterious about it instead of seeming like I had the facts when
they were smaller. I did tell them that the santas in stores are not the
real Santa....but that feels like a lie too, for goodness sakes. (it
indicates that there is a *real* Santa.)
I love z"Yes Virginia, There is a Santa Claus" and I've always thought I'd
read that to the kids when they question me. Sometimes thing happen off the
cuff here though and I forget what I've planned. We'll see, I guess.
Angela ~ the conflicted
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Interesting that nobody has even mentioned the Santa-as-behavior-control
aspect.
I think that means that the tradition has changed!
The threat of a stocking full of sticks and coal has been considered too
cruel for a long time. Good.
I did hear of one incident (brother of a friend, long ago, nothing at all
current) of a kid getting a stocking full of sticks, and crying his eyes out for
hours, and the parents justifying it. POOR GUY.
Sandra
aspect.
I think that means that the tradition has changed!
The threat of a stocking full of sticks and coal has been considered too
cruel for a long time. Good.
I did hear of one incident (brother of a friend, long ago, nothing at all
current) of a kid getting a stocking full of sticks, and crying his eyes out for
hours, and the parents justifying it. POOR GUY.
Sandra
Dawn Adams
Sandra writes:
Interesting that nobody has even mentioned the Santa-as-behavior-control
aspect.
I think that means that the tradition has changed!
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Interesting that nobody has even mentioned the Santa-as-behavior-control
aspect.
I think that means that the tradition has changed!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>That's never been a part of our Santa tradition. Occasionally someone in the family pipes up that Santa might not come if my daughter keeps something up but I give them the evil eye. Catherine is firm in her belief that Santa loves all kids and would not do something so cruel as to leave coal or sticks.
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Pickell
I remember when I was young, there was a family we knew consisting of a
single mom and 3 boys. She wasn't a very nice woman and every
Christmas didn't get the kids any gifts. She told the kids that Santa
didn't bring them any toys because they were bad boys! I just remember
feeling so bad for them, because they weren't bad kids. They were just
your typical energetic boys.
Faith
single mom and 3 boys. She wasn't a very nice woman and every
Christmas didn't get the kids any gifts. She told the kids that Santa
didn't bring them any toys because they were bad boys! I just remember
feeling so bad for them, because they weren't bad kids. They were just
your typical energetic boys.
Faith
On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:33 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
> Interesting that nobody has even mentioned the
> Santa-as-behavior-control
> aspect.
> I think that means that the tradition has changed!
>
> The threat of a stocking full of sticks and coal has been considered
> too
> cruel for a long time. Good.
>
> I did hear of one incident (brother of a friend, long ago, nothing at
> all
> current) of a kid getting a stocking full of sticks, and crying his
> eyes out for
> hours, and the parents justifying it. POOR GUY.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
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>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/22/2004 10:23:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
game-enthusiast@... writes:
From the time the kids were small we had gifts from Santa and gifts from us.
Santa fills the stockings and leaves a few small gifts and the rest is from
us. I can't really change that now but it has always been confusing for me
because I can never remember what gifts were from Santa and what were from
us, after the fact. So two months later when a mom asks me where we got
something, I'm likely to say enthusiastically, oh, I got that on ebay for
only $5, to which my children pipe up..."no you didn't, we got that from
Santa!" Agh!!! I've done that more times than I care to mention. I am
getting better at saying "we got it for Christmas, (and tell the details
later) but I still forget in my enthusiasm to share a good idea or good
deal.) My kids have always asked why we need to give to charities at
Christmas time. Doesn't Santa give presents to everyone? Having gifts
from both Santa and us made it easier to answer that question...Santa only
fills stocking and brings a few small gifts, but the kids seem to think
they'd be perfectly happy with just the Santa gifts, so why isn't everyone
else?
<<<<
To keep things straight Christmas morning, I've wrapped everything from
Santa in "Santa paper"---and each person has a different wrapping paper---easier
to tell whose is whose. Santa's gifts have factory-made sticky bows. I wrap
all gifts from our family in plainer paper---either red or white or brown with
huge handmade bows. Most of our family gifts are books, clothes, and handmade
items. Santa gives stockings, toys, techno-gifts, and big things---like
bikes or trampolines (no books or clothes). Again, easier to decipher.
When they start figuring that all other kids *should* get presents from
Santa---well, to me, that's the natural time that they figure the whole thing
out. Other kids start talking and they start questioning. It's easy for them to
connect the dots.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
game-enthusiast@... writes:
From the time the kids were small we had gifts from Santa and gifts from us.
Santa fills the stockings and leaves a few small gifts and the rest is from
us. I can't really change that now but it has always been confusing for me
because I can never remember what gifts were from Santa and what were from
us, after the fact. So two months later when a mom asks me where we got
something, I'm likely to say enthusiastically, oh, I got that on ebay for
only $5, to which my children pipe up..."no you didn't, we got that from
Santa!" Agh!!! I've done that more times than I care to mention. I am
getting better at saying "we got it for Christmas, (and tell the details
later) but I still forget in my enthusiasm to share a good idea or good
deal.) My kids have always asked why we need to give to charities at
Christmas time. Doesn't Santa give presents to everyone? Having gifts
from both Santa and us made it easier to answer that question...Santa only
fills stocking and brings a few small gifts, but the kids seem to think
they'd be perfectly happy with just the Santa gifts, so why isn't everyone
else?
<<<<
To keep things straight Christmas morning, I've wrapped everything from
Santa in "Santa paper"---and each person has a different wrapping paper---easier
to tell whose is whose. Santa's gifts have factory-made sticky bows. I wrap
all gifts from our family in plainer paper---either red or white or brown with
huge handmade bows. Most of our family gifts are books, clothes, and handmade
items. Santa gives stockings, toys, techno-gifts, and big things---like
bikes or trampolines (no books or clothes). Again, easier to decipher.
When they start figuring that all other kids *should* get presents from
Santa---well, to me, that's the natural time that they figure the whole thing
out. Other kids start talking and they start questioning. It's easy for them to
connect the dots.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/22/2004 10:23:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
game-enthusiast@... writes:
Will she ever learn the
truth or will I have to sneak into her house when she is grown up to deliver
presents to her kids? LOL! <<<<
My father STILL does that! <G> He LOVES playing Santa---and it's a good
thing: otherwise, how would *our* Santa afford all that stuff? <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
game-enthusiast@... writes:
Will she ever learn the
truth or will I have to sneak into her house when she is grown up to deliver
presents to her kids? LOL! <<<<
My father STILL does that! <G> He LOVES playing Santa---and it's a good
thing: otherwise, how would *our* Santa afford all that stuff? <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Aimee
<<The threat of a stocking full of sticks and coal has
been considered
too
cruel for a long time. Good.>>
One of my son's favorite stocking gifts was a bag of
'coal', i.e. chewing gum. He thought it was
hilarious. I wish I could find it again.
~Aimee
been considered
too
cruel for a long time. Good.>>
One of my son's favorite stocking gifts was a bag of
'coal', i.e. chewing gum. He thought it was
hilarious. I wish I could find it again.
~Aimee
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/22/2004 10:36:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
The threat of a stocking full of sticks and coal has been considered too
cruel for a long time. Good.<<<<
In Germany (where Cameron was born) they celebrate St Nicholaus Day on Dec
6th. The children leave their shoes out, and St Nicholaus comes by and fills
the shoes with fruit, nuts, and chocolate. His sidekick, Schwarze Peter, leaves
coal and switches. So we celebrate St Nicholaus Day here too----just extends
Christmas! I make tiny bundles of licorice, wrapped in ribbon, to
symbolize switches. We also cut and trim our tree on the 6th.
I have tiny pieces of coal wrapped in red tissue that Santa slips into the
stockings---just for all the folks that ask whether they got coal and switches.
The boys can say, "YES! I got a lump of coal!" Most people freak out---and
the boys love the reactions. They always look inside for their coal.
current) of a kid getting a stocking full of sticks, and crying his eyes out
for
hours, and the parents justifying it. POOR GUY.<<<<
Creepy, creepy, creepy. Also happened to a friend of mine. Hard to believe
he turned out to be such a nice guy. Shitty parents.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
The threat of a stocking full of sticks and coal has been considered too
cruel for a long time. Good.<<<<
In Germany (where Cameron was born) they celebrate St Nicholaus Day on Dec
6th. The children leave their shoes out, and St Nicholaus comes by and fills
the shoes with fruit, nuts, and chocolate. His sidekick, Schwarze Peter, leaves
coal and switches. So we celebrate St Nicholaus Day here too----just extends
Christmas! I make tiny bundles of licorice, wrapped in ribbon, to
symbolize switches. We also cut and trim our tree on the 6th.
I have tiny pieces of coal wrapped in red tissue that Santa slips into the
stockings---just for all the folks that ask whether they got coal and switches.
The boys can say, "YES! I got a lump of coal!" Most people freak out---and
the boys love the reactions. They always look inside for their coal.
>>>>I did hear of one incident (brother of a friend, long ago, nothing atall
current) of a kid getting a stocking full of sticks, and crying his eyes out
for
hours, and the parents justifying it. POOR GUY.<<<<
Creepy, creepy, creepy. Also happened to a friend of mine. Hard to believe
he turned out to be such a nice guy. Shitty parents.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamaaj2000
Goggle 'candy coal' and you'll find similar things like this:
http://www.candywarehouse.com/coalcan7lbbo.html
A couple people tried to tell Mikey last year that he'd better be
good...and of course, there's a song about it! I assured him he was
in no danger a couple times...
--- In [email protected], Aimee <aimeel73@s...>
wrote:
http://www.candywarehouse.com/coalcan7lbbo.html
A couple people tried to tell Mikey last year that he'd better be
good...and of course, there's a song about it! I assured him he was
in no danger a couple times...
--- In [email protected], Aimee <aimeel73@s...>
wrote:
> <<The threat of a stocking full of sticks and coal has
> been considered
> too
> cruel for a long time. Good.>>
>
> One of my son's favorite stocking gifts was a bag of
> 'coal', i.e. chewing gum. He thought it was
> hilarious. I wish I could find it again.
>
> ~Aimee
Mary
I had the whole Santa thing going on when I was a little kid. Don't really remember when or how I found out he didn't really come. My dad even had a friend dress up and come to our house and my mom woke me up and we even got a picture of "Santa." Years later, after all grown up, whenever I saw that guy, I called him Santa! Never remember me finding out the truth as being something negative.
So naturally when my first was born, we did the whole Santa thing too. Of course she was so different than I was and questioned everything. So at the time, the only thing I knew to do was answer her questions while still keeping the magic of the man. Well her questions were incredible and I made up elaborate stories to cover. It wasn't until Tara was almost 13 that we all realized she still thought there was a Santa. She wasn't mad at me or anything but still remembers how she felt when she found out. It really was an accident as we all just thought she knew the truth by that time.
So when second child came along, I was adamant about not lying and doing the whole Santa thing. My husband wasn't happy but I insisted. We didn't say there wasn't a Santa, just never said there was. Somewhere along the way when Joseph was about 4, he started the whole Santa thing himself. Of course his year younger sister went along with whatever he believed. By that time I was smarter and asked them what they thought. I let them figure out what they wanted to believe.
So now at almost 10, 9 and 4, the 3 little ones believe there is a Santa. Not to the extent where it consumes them like it did my first child though. Any questions are answered by them once we talk about it.
Santa fills stockings for them and brings one gift for each left under the tree not wrapped. He also brings one thing for all 3 younger children to share. Like last year it was the Toss Across game. Santa doesn't do adults which means not our oldest then either. Kids just kind of said he only does little ones.
So even though I tried to not do Santa, the kids seem to want to believe in a certain degree of him. At the same time, they also know people dress up like Santa just to play fun. I figure with them, they will eventually come up with other answers on their own. This way it's much more comfortable for me than the first go around and I think it's healthier for my kids too.
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
So naturally when my first was born, we did the whole Santa thing too. Of course she was so different than I was and questioned everything. So at the time, the only thing I knew to do was answer her questions while still keeping the magic of the man. Well her questions were incredible and I made up elaborate stories to cover. It wasn't until Tara was almost 13 that we all realized she still thought there was a Santa. She wasn't mad at me or anything but still remembers how she felt when she found out. It really was an accident as we all just thought she knew the truth by that time.
So when second child came along, I was adamant about not lying and doing the whole Santa thing. My husband wasn't happy but I insisted. We didn't say there wasn't a Santa, just never said there was. Somewhere along the way when Joseph was about 4, he started the whole Santa thing himself. Of course his year younger sister went along with whatever he believed. By that time I was smarter and asked them what they thought. I let them figure out what they wanted to believe.
So now at almost 10, 9 and 4, the 3 little ones believe there is a Santa. Not to the extent where it consumes them like it did my first child though. Any questions are answered by them once we talk about it.
Santa fills stockings for them and brings one gift for each left under the tree not wrapped. He also brings one thing for all 3 younger children to share. Like last year it was the Toss Across game. Santa doesn't do adults which means not our oldest then either. Kids just kind of said he only does little ones.
So even though I tried to not do Santa, the kids seem to want to believe in a certain degree of him. At the same time, they also know people dress up like Santa just to play fun. I figure with them, they will eventually come up with other answers on their own. This way it's much more comfortable for me than the first go around and I think it's healthier for my kids too.
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley
> It's fantasy---no different than living in Harry Potter-land orHobbit-world or Metropolis/Gotham
> City. It doesn't last long, so we enjoy it while we can.This reminds me of the book that I just read for a book club. "Alice, I
think" by Susan Juby. It is from the perspective of a 15 yo
homeschooled girl. When she was in kindergarten, she dressed up as a
hobbit and the ridicule is one of the reasons that her parents took her
out of school. I didn't like a lot of the book, but the whole dressing
up as a hobbit thing and thinking it a reality is really cute.
-Lisa in AZ
AM Brown
>Interesting that nobody has even mentioned the Santa-as-behavior-controlI think that is just because this is an unschooling group! I see this all the time and even strangers will ask my dds if they've been "good".
>aspect.
>I think that means that the tradition has changed!
>The threat of a stocking full of sticks and coal has been considered tooThis happened to someone I know when they were growing up. I had never even heard of it, I guess my parents didn't include that in their christmas tradition - thank goodness. How horrible.
>cruel for a long time. Good.
Anna
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/22/2004 12:03:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
The kids love it cuz it turns their mouths and teeth pitch black and they
love sticking out their tongues and showing it off :o) I think it's called a
"Lump of Coal" candy. Not real easy to find but it goes a long way and sure is
fun. I can't stand the taste of black licorice but it's worth it for the day.
And for switches we use "pixie sticks" and roll them once with brown paper
and tape or glue them and then they look like sticks.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
> They always look inside for their coal.Do you use the "real coal" they have that is licorice flavored? We use that.
>
The kids love it cuz it turns their mouths and teeth pitch black and they
love sticking out their tongues and showing it off :o) I think it's called a
"Lump of Coal" candy. Not real easy to find but it goes a long way and sure is
fun. I can't stand the taste of black licorice but it's worth it for the day.
And for switches we use "pixie sticks" and roll them once with brown paper
and tape or glue them and then they look like sticks.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/22/2004 12:45:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aimeel73@... writes:
they may sell it individually.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aimeel73@... writes:
> One of my son's favorite stocking gifts was a bag ofCandyfavorites.com, it's called Santa's Coal (Bubble Gum)-it is bulk but
> 'coal', i.e. chewing gum. He thought it was
> hilarious. I wish I could find it again.
>
they may sell it individually.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Jul 22, 2004, at 5:49 AM, catherine aceto wrote:
do enjoy celebrating with friends and family, though. So my kids never
had Santa coming to our house bringing gifts - and never thought he was
real. They say it is very strange to them that other kids might
actually believe that some strange man might come in their house during
the night and leave presents. They think that is creepy. They never
spoiled the idea of Santa for other kids - they got it that this was
something the kids WANTED to believe in and they didn't mess it up for
them.
And while I was typing this Fox news just showed a clip from the World
Santa Claus convention going on in Denmark. Weird.
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> So I'd say, if you enjoy Santa do it, but I don't think you shouldWe don't celebrate Christmas at our house - not one of our holidays. We
> feel that you have to or that your children will be short-changed if
> you don't.
do enjoy celebrating with friends and family, though. So my kids never
had Santa coming to our house bringing gifts - and never thought he was
real. They say it is very strange to them that other kids might
actually believe that some strange man might come in their house during
the night and leave presents. They think that is creepy. They never
spoiled the idea of Santa for other kids - they got it that this was
something the kids WANTED to believe in and they didn't mess it up for
them.
And while I was typing this Fox news just showed a clip from the World
Santa Claus convention going on in Denmark. Weird.
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Julie
In Germany (where Cameron was born) they celebrate St Nicholaus Day on Dec
6th. The children leave their shoes out, and St Nicholaus comes by and fills
the shoes with fruit, nuts, and chocolate. His sidekick, Schwarze Peter,
leaves coal and switches. So we celebrate St Nicholaus Day here
too----just extends Christmas! I make tiny bundles of licorice, wrapped
in ribbon, to symbolize switches. We also cut and trim our tree on the
6th.
I have tiny pieces of coal wrapped in red tissue that Santa slips into the
stockings---just for all the folks that ask whether they got coal and
switches. The boys can say, "YES! I got a lump of coal!" Most people freak
out---and the boys love the reactions. They always look inside for their
coal.
~Kelly
We celebrate St Nicholas Day too but I haven't ever given the kids coal.
I'll add some to their bags of goodies this year, they will think that's
hilarious!!
Our kids have never believed in Santa but I haven't noticed that their
enjoyment of Christmas is any less than that of kids who do believe.
Julie
6th. The children leave their shoes out, and St Nicholaus comes by and fills
the shoes with fruit, nuts, and chocolate. His sidekick, Schwarze Peter,
leaves coal and switches. So we celebrate St Nicholaus Day here
too----just extends Christmas! I make tiny bundles of licorice, wrapped
in ribbon, to symbolize switches. We also cut and trim our tree on the
6th.
I have tiny pieces of coal wrapped in red tissue that Santa slips into the
stockings---just for all the folks that ask whether they got coal and
switches. The boys can say, "YES! I got a lump of coal!" Most people freak
out---and the boys love the reactions. They always look inside for their
coal.
~Kelly
We celebrate St Nicholas Day too but I haven't ever given the kids coal.
I'll add some to their bags of goodies this year, they will think that's
hilarious!!
Our kids have never believed in Santa but I haven't noticed that their
enjoyment of Christmas is any less than that of kids who do believe.
Julie
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/22/2004 1:34:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
To keep things straight Christmas morning, I've wrapped everything from
Santa in "Santa paper"---and each person has a different wrapping
paper---easier
to tell whose is whose. Santa's gifts have factory-made sticky bows. I wrap
all gifts from our family in plainer paper---either red or white or brown
with
huge handmade bows. Most of our family gifts are books, clothes, and
handmade
items. Santa gives stockings, toys, techno-gifts, and big things---like
bikes or trampolines (no books or clothes). Again, easier to decipher.
When they start figuring that all other kids *should* get presents from
Santa---well, to me, that's the natural time that they figure the whole
thing
out. Other kids start talking and they start questioning. It's easy for them
to
connect the dots.
*****************************
Well, my kid was oblivious...never noticed whether the paper was different or
slips on the parts of parents....
He was committed to believing.
He never wanted to visit the store Santas, though. He recognized the whole
Santa's Helper thing, and just said he didn't want to sit on some strange man's
lap. Hard to argue with that, however much I'd have liked the pictures. LOL
Kathryn
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody, MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
To keep things straight Christmas morning, I've wrapped everything from
Santa in "Santa paper"---and each person has a different wrapping
paper---easier
to tell whose is whose. Santa's gifts have factory-made sticky bows. I wrap
all gifts from our family in plainer paper---either red or white or brown
with
huge handmade bows. Most of our family gifts are books, clothes, and
handmade
items. Santa gives stockings, toys, techno-gifts, and big things---like
bikes or trampolines (no books or clothes). Again, easier to decipher.
When they start figuring that all other kids *should* get presents from
Santa---well, to me, that's the natural time that they figure the whole
thing
out. Other kids start talking and they start questioning. It's easy for them
to
connect the dots.
*****************************
Well, my kid was oblivious...never noticed whether the paper was different or
slips on the parts of parents....
He was committed to believing.
He never wanted to visit the store Santas, though. He recognized the whole
Santa's Helper thing, and just said he didn't want to sit on some strange man's
lap. Hard to argue with that, however much I'd have liked the pictures. LOL
Kathryn
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody, MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]