alaurashome

My daughter was just watching me logon and noticed that this group
has 666 members. Could that be why there is so much trouble here?
<grin>

Sorry, but it was just too good not to pass on to y'all.

Alaura
(the sweet and innocent angel who never causes any trouble anywhere)

Katy Clark

Actually it will now only have 665 members. I am unsubscribing. As a newbie, I feel that you all really don't welcome new people and their individual ideas unless they fit neatly into your round holes. I specifically resented Sandra's ascertion that those of us who are just beginning to homeschool or haven't even started yet do not have any valid opinions and that we should all be quiet. I realize that Sandra "owns" the list and can say whatever she wants, but as a "respected voice" in the unschooling movement I would hope that she would have more of a welcoming spirit.
Katy C.
alaurashome <alaurashome@...> wrote: My daughter was just watching me logon and noticed that this group
has 666 members. Could that be why there is so much trouble here?
<grin>

Sorry, but it was just too good not to pass on to y'all.

Alaura
(the sweet and innocent angel who never causes any trouble anywhere)


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Katy, Sandra doesn't own this list. HEM/Helen Hegener/Unschooling.com "owns
the list"
Why don't you just delete her posts if you don't like her opinions?
I am very very sorry I didn't extend a welcome to you.
Welcome!
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein

Bonnie

Hi Katy- I am new where as well. Joined 2 days ago
because I like the theory of unschooling, agree with
the philosophy, but not yet confident enough I guess
to apply it. I wanted to learn more from the
"experts". Especially concerning the paperwork aspect.
I haven't quite dared to jump in to ask questions or
introduce myself though. I agree, from what I have
read in past day and a half, it does sound like a
"closed" list, not at all open to newcomers.
Rethinking my magazine subscribtion as well. Maybe I
will check into one of the other lists we were
rerouted to on here. There were a few here who
actually did discuss unschooling, but for the most
part it seems the center of discussion is about
exclusion. Maybe we will be more welcome somewhere
else, as was suggested here earlier.
--- Katy Clark <katyclark1969@...> wrote:
>
> Actually it will now only have 665 members. I am
> unsubscribing. As a newbie, I feel that you all
> really don't welcome new people and their individual
> ideas unless they fit neatly into your round holes.
> I specifically resented Sandra's ascertion that
> those of us who are just beginning to homeschool or
> haven't even started yet do not have any valid
> opinions and that we should all be quiet. I realize
> that Sandra "owns" the list and can say whatever she
> wants, but as a "respected voice" in the unschooling
> movement I would hope that she would have more of a
> welcoming spirit.
> Katy C.
> alaurashome <alaurashome@...> wrote: My
> daughter was just watching me logon and noticed that
> this group
> has 666 members. Could that be why there is so much
> trouble here?
> <grin>
>
> Sorry, but it was just too good not to pass on to
> y'all.
>
> Alaura
> (the sweet and innocent angel who never causes any
> trouble anywhere)
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter
> and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education
> Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
> Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
>
> It's already tomorrow in Australia. --- Charles
> Schultz
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards�
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter
> and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education
> Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards�
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Alan Tait

It's funny but it seems to be that 90% of e-lists are run in a
tyrannical style.

Never understood why but it does seem the case

There are exceptions of course

The advantages of not having one person imposing a 'my way or the
highway' rule is you actually get 50% plus of the list members actively
posting rather than the less the 20% you get on most lists, the 10% why
adorate the list owner and the 10% who are not intimidated and have time
to waste on fighting

JMHO

Alan




> Actually it will now only have 665 members. I am unsubscribing. As
a
> newbie, I feel that you all really don't welcome new people and their
> individual ideas unless they fit neatly into your round holes. I
> specifically resented Sandra's ascertion that those of us who are just
> beginning to homeschool or haven't even started yet do not have any
valid
> opinions and that we should all be quiet. I realize that Sandra
"owns"
> the list and can say whatever she wants, but as a "respected voice" in
the
> unschooling movement I would hope that she would have more of a
welcoming
> spirit.
> Katy C.

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/23/02 10:19:18 AM, katyclark1969@... writes:

<< I specifically resented Sandra's ascertion that those of us who are just
beginning to homeschool or haven't even started yet do not have any valid
opinions and that we should all be quiet.>>

I didn't say that, and I don't own the list. I resent being misrepresented
for trying to help.

I'm sure you'll find free unschooling help somewhere else. Try to appreciate
it.

<<I realize that Sandra "owns" the list and can say whatever she wants, but
as a "respected voice" in the unschooling movement I would hope that she
would have more of a welcoming spirit. >>

If you don't find other unschooling help you consider sufficiently welcoming,
there are lots of articles in the library at www.unschooling.com and at
sandradodd.com/articles.

Sandra

Cindy

ElissaJC@... wrote:
>
> Katy, Sandra doesn't own this list. HEM/Helen Hegener/Unschooling.com "owns
> the list"
> Why don't you just delete her posts if you don't like her opinions?
> I am very very sorry I didn't extend a welcome to you.
> Welcome!
>
She's gone - she unsubbed once she finished that post.

--

Cindy Ferguson
crma@...

Helen Hegener

Dear friends and listmembers,

I wish there was a quick, easy and convenient way to let you all know
what I'm thinking and feeling this morning. Unfortunately, this email
mode of communication doesn't really do much more than give us a way
to exchange writings. For me, that becomes even more limiting because
I've had trouble with carpal tunnel syndrome for the last few years
and so I try to limit the time I spend on keyboards these days. What
I might have at one time spent many paragraphs trying to explain will
now need to be presented much more concisely than I'd normally
prefer. Also, because we're in deadline for our May/June issue of
HEM, I need to spend more time on non-list related projects, so I
*really* can't write as much as I'd like to on this whole topic. And
if that's not enough, our oldest son and his family are here visiting
from Alaska for only a few days, and I'd much rather be spending time
with them than sorting out the mess on this list. Anyway, all of that
to say this:

It's a major disappointment to see this list fall back into the same
kind of downward spiral we experienced a few weeks (or was it
months?) ago. I needed to be gone unexpectedly for a couple of days,
so I stayed up last night long after everyone here had gone to bed,
reading and trying to make sense of what was going on with this list.
I finally fell asleep, got back up early this morning and started
reading again, missed breakfast with the family in trying to sort
this out... and have finally caught up with the posts. Now I sit here
wondering why I spent all that time reading and trying to make some
sense of all the accusations, defenses, proclamations, and so on and
so forth. It was truly discouraging to see the disparaging remarks
about our magazine in the middle of this discussion - even a threat
to reconsider an HEM subscription - because as far as I'm concerned
this list has absolutely nothing to do with the publication we
produce for homeschoolers. To see our magazine called into question
because of what someone who happens to write for us does on this list
was probably the final straw for me.

We - the publishers of Home Education Magazine - "sponsor" this list,
and many others, because we feel it's important for homeschoolers to
discuss issues with each other, to offer support and encouragement,
to have places for communication and networking. I think once upon a
time that might have been a valid approach, but, unfortunately, after
what I've read here, I think lists like this one are more of a
liability to our publication than an asset.

I'll be blunt. I do not have the time nor the interest in being
involved with the kinds of dynamics I've read here in the last few
hours. I'm not even interested in longwinded discussions any more. I
just need to do my job as Managing Editor of HEM, and this list has
become a major impediment to that. For that reason, I am removing all
references to HEM from this list, turning this list over to the
moderators, unsubscribing, and getting on with what needs doing in my
life. I wish you all the best in finding appropriate resolutions.

Helen

Fetteroll

on 3/23/02 2:58 PM, Helen Hegener at HEM-Editor@... wrote:

> For that reason, I am removing all
> references to HEM from this list, turning this list over to the
> moderators, unsubscribing, and getting on with what needs doing in my
> life. I wish you all the best in finding appropriate resolutions.

Well that's disappointing.

And I'm not talking about what Helen felt she needed to do.

Joyce

Lynda

I think that was her point.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <ElissaJC@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] 666


> Katy, Sandra doesn't own this list. HEM/Helen Hegener/Unschooling.com
"owns
> the list"
> Why don't you just delete her posts if you don't like her opinions?
> I am very very sorry I didn't extend a welcome to you.
> Welcome!
> ~Elissa Cleaveland
> "It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
> have
> not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Tia Leschke

Was this what you were looking for, Sarah?
Tia

>Dear friends and listmembers,
>
>I wish there was a quick, easy and convenient way to let you all know
>what I'm thinking and feeling this morning. Unfortunately, this email
>mode of communication doesn't really do much more than give us a way
>to exchange writings. For me, that becomes even more limiting because
>I've had trouble with carpal tunnel syndrome for the last few years
>and so I try to limit the time I spend on keyboards these days. What
>I might have at one time spent many paragraphs trying to explain will
>now need to be presented much more concisely than I'd normally
>prefer. Also, because we're in deadline for our May/June issue of
>HEM, I need to spend more time on non-list related projects, so I
>*really* can't write as much as I'd like to on this whole topic. And
>if that's not enough, our oldest son and his family are here visiting
>from Alaska for only a few days, and I'd much rather be spending time
>with them than sorting out the mess on this list. Anyway, all of that
>to say this:
>
>It's a major disappointment to see this list fall back into the same
>kind of downward spiral we experienced a few weeks (or was it
>months?) ago. I needed to be gone unexpectedly for a couple of days,
>so I stayed up last night long after everyone here had gone to bed,
>reading and trying to make sense of what was going on with this list.
>I finally fell asleep, got back up early this morning and started
>reading again, missed breakfast with the family in trying to sort
>this out... and have finally caught up with the posts. Now I sit here
>wondering why I spent all that time reading and trying to make some
>sense of all the accusations, defenses, proclamations, and so on and
>so forth. It was truly discouraging to see the disparaging remarks
>about our magazine in the middle of this discussion - even a threat
>to reconsider an HEM subscription - because as far as I'm concerned
>this list has absolutely nothing to do with the publication we
>produce for homeschoolers. To see our magazine called into question
>because of what someone who happens to write for us does on this list
>was probably the final straw for me.
>
>We - the publishers of Home Education Magazine - "sponsor" this list,
>and many others, because we feel it's important for homeschoolers to
>discuss issues with each other, to offer support and encouragement,
>to have places for communication and networking. I think once upon a
>time that might have been a valid approach, but, unfortunately, after
>what I've read here, I think lists like this one are more of a
>liability to our publication than an asset.
>
>I'll be blunt. I do not have the time nor the interest in being
>involved with the kinds of dynamics I've read here in the last few
>hours. I'm not even interested in longwinded discussions any more. I
>just need to do my job as Managing Editor of HEM, and this list has
>become a major impediment to that. For that reason, I am removing all
>references to HEM from this list, turning this list over to the
>moderators, unsubscribing, and getting on with what needs doing in my
>life. I wish you all the best in finding appropriate resolutions.
>
>Helen
>
>
>
>
>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
>http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Cindy

Helen Hegener wrote:
>
> I'll be blunt. I do not have the time nor the interest in being
> involved with the kinds of dynamics I've read here in the last few
> hours. I'm not even interested in longwinded discussions any more. I
> just need to do my job as Managing Editor of HEM, and this list has
> become a major impediment to that. For that reason, I am removing all
> references to HEM from this list, turning this list over to the
> moderators, unsubscribing, and getting on with what needs doing in my
> life. I wish you all the best in finding appropriate resolutions.
>
Well as one of the people who had the list turned over to her, I'm
stunned; I'm sad. I was on-line when Helen wrote this and I've
been thinking a lot about what this means. Mary is off-line with
family activities for another day or so. We will definitely be
talking a lot when she is back!!


--

Cindy Ferguson
crma@...

Cleopatra Rojas

Hi all, Jacli here :)
I've been relatively quiet for quite a while. Going
through too
much physical turmoil to get embroiled on the stuff on the
list too.
But Helen's message struck me. I didn't appreciate her
method
but I understood her madness.

The plain fact is that we seem to have cycles on this list.
The good, the bad and oh yes, the ugly.

We have moments when we shine. When we all come together
to help one another question and answer our collective
approaches
to schooling, unschooling and parenting in general. These
are the
moments when we -each of us- contribute just a little
something, a
little bit of our own flavor and when taken in create a
masterpiece.

Then we have moments when we get a little thoughtless or
insensitive.
Perhaps too sensitive is what I should say. Moments when
for just
a New York minute we let the bad in and become JUDGEMENTAL.

That's okay. This list is full of moms, dads, teachers,
leaders
and since we're all human on this list, the occasional
screw-ups.
But we acknowledge, apologize and move on. And thank
goodness
for the occasional screw up. They remind us to think
before we speak,
to consider and reconsider the way we treat or mistreat
others, such
consideration is probably a big asset for a group of folks
attempting to guide
their young-ins and deschool themselves at the same time.

The problem is when the Ugly sneaks it's ugly face in.
Ahh, the moments
when we tear down instead of buildup. Then we go back in
and do it again.
The long, long debates on whether so and so said what they
said they said and so
forth. Usually followed by people upset about all the
people saying what was or
was not said and then the comments about how people should
go and say things
somewhere else.

This is not new for us. But it is shameful. Because when
we are good, we are
AWESOME! When we shine it is because, as a group we
encourage, support
and unite.

I do not care for the way Helen responded to the UGLY. But
I do think it came
from an emotional place of frustration and disappointment
that it had come back
again. And let's face it, when folks start telling other
folks to get on other lists,
UGLY has come back in a big way.

Shame on us. Do you know what I do when the ugly comes?
When the first
whiff of ugly has come I try to ignore it by becoming real
friendly with my delete
button. But at times like this, times when UGLY has come
back all the way
and brought friends, I leave. That's right. I've been off
this list several times and I'm
about to do it again. And that's okay too. Because the
true feeling of this list is
strong enough to survive even the ugly and the
disappearance of one or two faces.
Ugly is like a fire and if we all just stop feeding the
flames IT WILL GO AWAY.

Sooner or later The Good will come back and when it does I
and the others who have
already quietly slipped away for a bit will come back. I
just hope in the meantime that
we haven't already permanently alienated some of the
wonderful people on this list who
maybe don't understand our ups and downs. The list will
survive, but it could come back
and bloom and thrive if only we would all work just a
little harder to stop feeding the ugly
and start working The Good.

Well, just my two cents, bye all, Jacli :)

>Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:58:57 -0800
> From: Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...>
>Subject: Checking in/checking out
>
>Dear friends and listmembers,
>
>It's a major disappointment to see this list fall back
into the same
>kind of downward spiral we experienced a few weeks (or was
it
>months?) ago.
>... It was truly discouraging to see the disparaging
remarks
>about our magazine in the middle of this discussion ...
> To see our magazine called into question
>because of what someone who happens to write for us does
on this list
>was probably the final straw for me.
>I'll be blunt. I do not have the time nor the interest in
being
>involved with the kinds of dynamics I've read here in the
last few
>hours....
> For that reason, I am removing all
>references to HEM from this list, turning this list over
to the
>moderators, unsubscribing, and getting on with what needs
doing in my
>life. I wish you all the best in finding appropriate
resolutions.
>
>Helen
____________________________________________________________
_
Get a Taste of Religion:
~LICK A WITCH~