[email protected]

In a message dated 3/21/02 4:45:44 PM, lurine@... writes:

<< As to getting caught in a system, he made the choose to have more children
against the advise of doctors. >>

They had the right to have more children. They had the right for her to be
medicated and helped. The 'system' did not give that to her. Nobody should
have their right to have more children taken away because they need help.
They need to get help and then be a healthy person again to live life to the
fullest. I disagree with you. She needed help and got lost in the system of
doctors and hospitals and insurance companies who did not help her.

Mary

Tia Leschke

>
>
><< As to getting caught in a system, he made the choose to have more children
>against the advise of doctors. >>
>
>They had the right to have more children.

Sure they had the *right*, but was it responsible to exercise that
right? Especially when it apparently was the healthy one pressuring the
unhealthy one to have another child.

I was just reading today that Andrea won't be allowed any visitors for
quite some time and will be in solitary for *years*! Where is that
at? Stick her away somewhere and forget about her?
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

[email protected]

when it apparently was the healthy one pressuring the
unhealthy one to have another child.

Look to the quote on your own letter, shown below, to answer that one.


<< No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt >>

Mary

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/21/02 11:12:46 PM, leschke@... writes:

<< I was just reading today that Andrea won't be allowed any visitors for
quite some time and will be in solitary for *years*! Where is that
at? Stick her away somewhere and forget about her? >>

I don't know about women's prisons, but I have heard that in men's prisons
some men are in special danger from the other prisoners, especially if
they've abused children.

Oh! And the woman who ran her car into the water a few years back--I think
others at the prison were especially mean to her at first?

So maybe it's for her own defense.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

> when it apparently was the healthy one pressuring the
>unhealthy one to have another child.
>
>Look to the quote on your own letter, shown below, to answer that one.
>
>
><< No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
>Eleanor Roosevelt >>

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I wasn't claiming that Andrea felt
inferior.
Tia

What you think of me is none of my business.
*********************************************************
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Tia Leschke

>
>I don't know about women's prisons, but I have heard that in men's prisons
>some men are in special danger from the other prisoners, especially if
>they've abused children.
>
>Oh! And the woman who ran her car into the water a few years back--I think
>others at the prison were especially mean to her at first?
>
>So maybe it's for her own defense.

I can buy that . . . but no visitors? That seems pretty cruel.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Lynda

She did NOT want more children. They were advised not to have more
children. He didn't care because his church told him to go have more
children.

If you choose to drink and drive and kill someone, don't try to blame it on
the state who didn't stop you or the alcohol distributor who sold you the
booze.

They made a choice and yes somethings failed them but the ultimate
responsibility lies with the person who made a conscious choice to go
against medical advise. That would be the father.

And she had to take some of those medications while pregnant and that also
endangered the future child.

This case is no different than a couple with HIV playing Russian roulette
with the lives of possible children by deciding to have children.

In the end, all the children died because of a religious zealot!

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <Unschoolingmommy@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Andrea Yates-sytstem


>
> In a message dated 3/21/02 4:45:44 PM, lurine@... writes:
>
> << As to getting caught in a system, he made the choose to have more
children
> against the advise of doctors. >>
>
> They had the right to have more children. They had the right for her to
be
> medicated and helped. The 'system' did not give that to her. Nobody
should
> have their right to have more children taken away because they need help.
> They need to get help and then be a healthy person again to live life to
the
> fullest. I disagree with you. She needed help and got lost in the system
of
> doctors and hospitals and insurance companies who did not help her.
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Lynda

The quote should read, to be accurate, No one can make a "mentally healthy"
person feel inferior without their consent."

Besides, he didn't make her feel inferior, he made her feel she would be
punished by God and austricized by her community.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <Unschoolingmommy@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Andrea Yates-sytstem


> when it apparently was the healthy one pressuring the
> unhealthy one to have another child.
>
> Look to the quote on your own letter, shown below, to answer that one.
>
>
> << No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
> Eleanor Roosevelt >>
>
> Mary
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Lynda

In Texas they go out of their way to hand out multiple layers of punishment.
The guards will make sure that her life is a living hell as will the (talk
about an oxymoron) criminal justice system!

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tia Leschke" <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Andrea Yates-sytstem


>
> >
> >I don't know about women's prisons, but I have heard that in men's
prisons
> >some men are in special danger from the other prisoners, especially if
> >they've abused children.
> >
> >Oh! And the woman who ran her car into the water a few years back--I
think
> >others at the prison were especially mean to her at first?
> >
> >So maybe it's for her own defense.
>
> I can buy that . . . but no visitors? That seems pretty cruel.
> Tia
>
> No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
> Eleanor Roosevelt
> *********************************************
> Tia Leschke
> leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[email protected]

<<>So maybe it's for her own defense.

I can buy that . . . but no visitors? That seems pretty cruel.
Tia>>

My first thought when I read that she was to have no visitors is that a
doctor may be trying to protect her from her own family and church
members. Perhaps this is the kindest thing they can do for her at the
moment.

Kris

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Lynda

I don't remember the name of the person who was their religious leader but I
will find it. He has several books out and IS a cult leader! I can see how
they might want to protect her from him!

Lynda


----- Original Message -----
From: <louisam1@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Andrea Yates-sytstem


> <<>So maybe it's for her own defense.
>
> I can buy that . . . but no visitors? That seems pretty cruel.
> Tia>>
>
> My first thought when I read that she was to have no visitors is that a
> doctor may be trying to protect her from her own family and church
> members. Perhaps this is the kindest thing they can do for her at the
> moment.
>
> Kris
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Joseph Fuerst

> My first thought when I read that she was to have no visitors is that a
> doctor may be trying to protect her from her own family and church
> members. Perhaps this is the kindest thing they can do for her at the
> moment.
>
> Kris
I think that's a good point. I have begun to get this gut-hunch
....wondering whether the children could have been sexually abused. What
was Andrea trying to 'save' them from? Many psychotic ideations have some
basis in *reality*.
The hunch is based on a family in a parent group I volunteered
with...similar profile....4-5 boys, and a baby girl, thin scraggly looking
mommy - usually dazed, somewhat out-there look. Dad that tried to maintain
an image of intelligence. We couldn't put our finger on our 'funny'
feeling about the family.....they showed up for every session,
participated in discussions.
About a year later, the oldest was able to articulate it (the abuse( to)
some professional. Turns out all the boys were being sexually abused by
their dad.
So maybe the hunch is just the outside similarities.....but it sure
wouldn't surprise me. It'd be interesting to delve into Russell's Andrea's
family history to see if that kind of thing happened.
Susan.....wierd musings fro a Tuesday morn ;-p

Lynda

Well, take a look at her wedding picture. Amazing what 8 short years did to
her!

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Andrea Yates-sytstem


> > My first thought when I read that she was to have no visitors is that a
> > doctor may be trying to protect her from her own family and church
> > members. Perhaps this is the kindest thing they can do for her at the
> > moment.
> >
> > Kris
> I think that's a good point. I have begun to get this gut-hunch
> ....wondering whether the children could have been sexually abused. What
> was Andrea trying to 'save' them from? Many psychotic ideations have
some
> basis in *reality*.
> The hunch is based on a family in a parent group I volunteered
> with...similar profile....4-5 boys, and a baby girl, thin scraggly
looking
> mommy - usually dazed, somewhat out-there look. Dad that tried to
maintain
> an image of intelligence. We couldn't put our finger on our 'funny'
> feeling about the family.....they showed up for every session,
> participated in discussions.
> About a year later, the oldest was able to articulate it (the abuse( to)
> some professional. Turns out all the boys were being sexually abused by
> their dad.
> So maybe the hunch is just the outside similarities.....but it sure
> wouldn't surprise me. It'd be interesting to delve into Russell's
Andrea's
> family history to see if that kind of thing happened.
> Susan.....wierd musings fro a Tuesday morn ;-p
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]