Bonni Sollars

Bridget, when my dad died, I objected to the open casket. My mom said,
"Well, they say it is the only way for some to really accept that a
person is dead." I said, "That's stupid! I know he's dead." A month
after he died, I had a dream he was in the living room and we were
talking, and when I woke up I thought, "He's alive! He's alive! I have
to tell everyone." But before I leaped out of bed to make the
announcement, the image of his body in the casket flashed in my mind.
"Oh, he is dead. It must have been a dream."
However, my sister, who was six, saw my dad in the casket and started
screaming "Daddy, Daddy!" My step-mom had to pry her hands off the
casket since pulling her didn't work.
I told my family I just want a memorial service, and for my body to be
donated to science. They pay for your burial that way. Besides, I don't
like for people to look at me when I'm sick, much less when I'm dead.
Bonni

Joseph Fuerst

>>My mom said,
> "Well, they say it is the only way for some to really accept that a
> person is dead." I said, "That's stupid! I know he's dead." <<

Well, I say people handle grief in very personal and complex ways. And
it's too bad you felt the need to invalidate your mom's feelings.....maybe
it stemmed from your own grief reaction.

I can see that some would 'need' open casket....or some ritual with the
body. Dare we remove death even further from our ordinary lives by
discontinuing 'wakes'?
Susan

rumpleteasermom

I don't think we should ignore it. But I really don't understand open
caskets. My uncle looked nothing like himself and my father was even
worse when he died.

The best memorial thingy I've ever been to was a very unusual one. It
was in a small meeting room and everyone got up and talked about how
the man who died had touched their lives. It was very powerful and
very moving.

Bridget


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@f...> wrote:
>
> I can see that some would 'need' open casket....or some ritual with
the
> body. Dare we remove death even further from our ordinary lives
by
> discontinuing 'wakes'?
> Susan

Bonni Sollars

Susan, I'm not sure what you mean by me invalidating my mother's
feelings. She didn't express any. We were on the airplane to my dad's
funeral when I was sixteen years old, and she was concerned that I wasn't
showing any grief. I actually had said nothing about his death to her,
and hadn't cried in her presence. The first thing I said in response was
to object to the open casket. I just thought it made no sense since my
dad wasn't in that body anymore. I don't know why it bothered me, maybe
I was just not wanting to accept he was dead by looking at the body? Or
maybe I had a distant memory of being only 3 or 4 and going to funerals
with an elderly lady who took care of me when I was young, seeing a lot
of dead bodies of strangers. Or maybe I was avoiding the issue of
showing grief. The point was, my mom's words were proven right later
when I had that dream. The experience of seeing my dad's body was
traumatic for my younger six-year-old sister, however. I thought my dad
looked handsome in his horse-showing clothes, boots, hat, buckle and all.
Except he looked darker...he was a dark skinned man.
Oh, it just occurred to me that you thought my mom chose the open casket.
No, I think my uncle did. Or maybe my step-mom. No one asked me, of
course.
Bonni

Fetteroll

on 3/22/02 7:28 PM, rumpleteasermom at rumpleteasermom@... wrote:

> I don't think we should ignore it. But I really don't understand open
> caskets. My uncle looked nothing like himself and my father was even
> worse when he died.

Perhaps that has more to do with the skill of the funeral people than the
open casket, and the quality of the photos they have. Most older people
haven't had a good picture taken of them for years. And those who make the
arrangements generally assume the deceased should be dressed up and looking
his best, which isn't necessarily the way they usually looked.

> The best memorial thingy I've ever been to was a very unusual one. It
> was in a small meeting room and everyone got up and talked about how
> the man who died had touched their lives. It was very powerful and
> very moving.

I think that type of thing is much more meaningful than a priest who may not
have even known the person or any of the people there reading supposedly
comforting passages from the Bible.

But some people are visual rather than verbal so what was meaningful to you
wouldn't have as much meaning to them. Some people even need to touch the
body for it to seem real. It would be a shame to deny them what they need.

There's a small movement towards dying at home and having funerals at home
sometimes with the family preparing the body. Some people are feeling our
society is too far removed from death as it is and that it causes problems
in the grieving process.

I typed in "family-directed funeral" into Google which brought up some sites
and other phrases to use if anyone's curious.

Joyce

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Fetteroll <fetteroll@e...> wrote:

>
> Perhaps that has more to do with the skill of the funeral people
than the
> open casket, and the quality of the photos they have.

The funeral dorector is a friend of the family and knows what they
looked like. The problem comes in trying to make them look like they
did before they were sick I think. My dad had brain surgery and he
had gotten very bloated toward the end from the tube feedings that
were forced on my mom. (I wish I had know then what I know now, I
would have made her refuse them more vehemantly.) Anyway, some things
you can't fix with make-up.

> There's a small movement towards dying at home and having funerals
at home
> sometimes with the family preparing the body. Some people are
feeling our
> society is too far removed from death as it is and that it causes
problems
> in the grieving process.

This actually strikes me as a much more natural thing to do than the
way we handle funerals now.

Bridget

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/23/02 8:16:25 AM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:

<< Anyway, some things
you can't fix with make-up. >>

Bullet holes to the forehead. I've seen two, in open-casket funerals. The
makeup did a good job, but not perfect. A little indentation, like a bruise.

Ninth and tenth grade. Charles Montoya in 9th. Alice Law in 10th. Some
combination of school and parents and other kids just too much for them.
Charles had been my 8th grade boyfriend; his dad was our art teacher; we
played clarinet together. Alice was in band too (trumpet), and also was in
my Sunday School class.

That helps remind me that homeschooling is NOT for nothing, and that school
is NOT always "just" a necessary character-building experience.

Sandra

Joseph Fuerst

> Oh, it just occurred to me that you thought my mom chose the open casket.
> No, I think my uncle did. Or maybe my step-mom. No one asked me, of
> course.
> Bonni
>
I think I did assume that. And you had commented that the open casket was
'stipid' or some phrase that (to me) indicated your strong feelings against
it, while your other comments seemed to indicate her wanting/needing the
open casket.

And for you and your 6 yr ols sis, I did turn out to be
"difficult"/challenging.....instead of peaceful and healing. It's just not
always (or even often, ie ever) possible to know ahead of time which grief
rituals will be healing and which will not.

Also, those who have died are often said to appear to others....especially
those with a psychic gift. That may be frightening whether or not one has
seen the body.
Susan

[email protected]

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:01:22 -0500 "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
writes:
> Also, those who have died are often said to appear to
> others....especially
> those with a psychic gift. That may be frightening whether or not
> one has seen the body

This happened to Cacie, not sure if I mentioned it here. We were all
sitting in the living room right after we got the phone call that my mom
had died, and Cacie saw her sitting on the couch where she always sits.
She worried about it for a couple of days and then brought it up to me,
saying she'd had some hallucinations. That was in December, so she was 8,
but savvy enough to worry that she was becoming mentally ill. I told her
that those were a special kind of hallucinations, and I asked her she
felt when she saw her grandma. She said she felt good, comforted. I told
her that some people believed that the person who had died would visit to
try to comfort her loved ones, and that children were often best at
seeing them... and also that some people believed that when a person had
someone special in their life die, that person's own mind might create
visions of the person who had died, as a way of dealing with it and
making the person feel better. I told her she was free to believe either
explanation, or both, or neither, but that was pretty sure she wasn't
mentally ill.

Dar

Joseph Fuerst

Dar,
You are amazing!! This is just eaxactly how I hope to handle a situation
like this.....should it happen to one of my children.
When I was a child I saw my grandpa. He had 'appeared' after a
frightening 'dream'....and I always felt that he was watching over me.
Susan

>
> This happened to Cacie, not sure if I mentioned it here. We were all
> sitting in the living room right after we got the phone call that my mom
> had died, and Cacie saw her sitting on the couch where she always sits.
> She worried about it for a couple of days and then brought it up to me,
> saying she'd had some hallucinations. That was in December, so she was 8,
> but savvy enough to worry that she was becoming mentally ill. I told her
> that those were a special kind of hallucinations, and I asked her she
> felt when she saw her grandma. She said she felt good, comforted. I told
> her that some people believed that the person who had died would visit to
> try to comfort her loved ones, and that children were often best at
> seeing them... and also that some people believed that when a person had
> someone special in their life die, that person's own mind might create
> visions of the person who had died, as a way of dealing with it and
> making the person feel better. I told her she was free to believe either
> explanation, or both, or neither, but that was pretty sure she wasn't
> mentally ill.
>
> Dar
>
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