Kolleen

>And morphing into another topic, can anyone tell me why we still have
>open casket viewing of dead bodies? I mean, I understand that
>originally a wake was to make certain they were really dead, so why do
>we still do it? I've already told my kids that if they do that to me
>I WILL come back and haunt them!
>Bridget


I dont' know why people do that. I don't know why people are so hung up
over death. Tragic accidents are shocking. I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about the whole death thing. The reticense to discuss wills,
not wanting children to know about it, or understand it. The whole
graveyard thing, the funeral. I mean major hang-ups!!!

There's a law againt being buried at sea, unless you are Navy and only
under certain circumstances.. that is a hang-up! Companys can dump tons
of garbage in the ocean but someone can't tie a rock around a carcass and
throw it overboard out in deep sea so the fishes can eat.. I mean
really.. whats the big deal!

/rant off

kolleen



"People take different roads seeking
fulfillment and happiness. Just
because they're not on your road
doesn't mean they've gotten lost."
-H. Jackson Brown, Jr.

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Kolleen <Kolleen@m...> wrote:
.. I mean
> really.. whats the big deal!
>
> /rant off
>
> kolleen
>

Kolleen,

Are you sure we aren't twins who were separated at birth? I've made
very similar rants about our hangups over death. I mean, my uncle was
83 years old and in pain for god's sake. He's better off now than he
was five days ago! Of course showing our usual family stubbornness -
he waited until St. Paddy's day to die 'cuz that's when he wanted to
go out. The docs gave him 4 to 6 months about 11 months ago!

Bridget

Honored Babies

Kolleen,

>I dont' know why people do that. I don't know why people are so hung up
>over death. Tragic accidents are shocking. I'm not talking about that.
>
>I'm talking about the whole death thing. The reticense to discuss wills,
>not wanting children to know about it, or understand it. The whole
>graveyard thing, the funeral. I mean major hang-ups!!!

I agree. First, people were shocked that I "allowed" my then newborn to
almost 1 year old daughter be around her very sick grandfather who was
dying. Every day we went to his home to visit him. She and he had an
incredible relationship, and I am so glad that I didn't think his dying was
a reason to keep her away from him. My daughter was the only person he
would wake up out of his morphine stupor for - he asked for her kisses...

I held my grandfather-in-law's hand when he died. Me holding one hand and
my husband holding the other. Beautiful... so glad we were with him.

My son died inside of me during labor. I held him for 24 hours - while he
was dead. Many people were *appalled* that I did so... "How could she hold
that *dead* baby?" Why? Because he is my son.

I held both of my dogs when we chose to have them euthenized. I was
literally minutes short of being with my grandmother when she died, and to
this day, regret that I wasn't holding her.

I believe that people not being able to talk about death (before or after
it happens), not being able to be with those who are dying or who are dead,
etc. is the reason so many who are grieving are left - abandoned, isolated,
and lonely - very difficult to bare *on top* of grief.

Also, I have been berated because Alexandria knew (and knows) so much about
her brother's death. Well, berated, too, because she was going to be at his
birth. Then again, just about everything we do is crazy to most people...
::: sigh :::

I could go on for hours about this subject...

~Paula

Bonni Sollars

My dad died while I was away on vacation. Seven years later an uncle
died in a woodcutting accident out in the woods hundreds of miles from
home, but his daughter was with him when he died. What she described
seemed like a horrifying experience, yet I envied her.
Bonni

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Honored Babies <paula@h...> wrote:

>
> I believe that people not being able to talk about death (before or
after
> it happens), not being able to be with those who are dying or who
are dead,
> etc. is the reason so many who are grieving are left - abandoned,
isolated,
> and lonely - very difficult to bare *on top* of grief.

I don't mind being with them when they are dying. I was the last
person to see my dad alive and my only regret is that I couldn't have
stayed longer that night. It's this three days later looking at a
made up corpse that does not even look like the person, that seems so
strange to me.

Bridget

Tia Leschke

>
>
>I don't mind being with them when they are dying. I was the last
>person to see my dad alive and my only regret is that I couldn't have
>stayed longer that night. It's this three days later looking at a
>made up corpse that does not even look like the person, that seems so
>strange to me.

That was what weirded me out when I went to my uncle's funeral when I was
12. It just *wasn't* him. He was all made up and wearing the captain's
uniform I'd never ever seen him wear. My uncle wasn't there. It was like
he was a maniken. (sp)
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

[email protected]

<< There's a law againt being buried at sea, unless you are Navy and only
under certain circumstances.. >>

Whose law? An international law?

JFK Jr. was buried at sea just lately.

TheQueen

<Whose law? An international law?

JFK Jr. was buried at sea just lately.>

I can’t tell you if it’s international or US law but it’s true. The Kennedy
clan had to request an exception to this law… and GOT it (obviously)! :-)


Sarah Carothers
puddles@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/21/02 10:41:45 PM, puddles@... writes:

<< I can’t tell you if it’s international or US law but it’s true. The
Kennedy

clan had to request an exception to this law… and GOT it (obviously)! :-) >>

To WHAT law please? Who has the authority to say that no bodies are allowed
to be put into the sea? It's not an unreasonable question, is it? "It's
true" isn't reference or documentation, and the claim was it was a law.

Sandra

TheQueen

<To WHAT law please? Who has the authority to say that no bodies are
allowed
to be put into the sea? It's not an unreasonable question, is it? "It's
true" isn't reference or documentation, and the claim was it was a law.

Sandra>

I don’t have time to go looking up a law for you. I saw it on the news at
the time of his death. That was good enough for me. If you need more proof,
I suggest you go find it.

Sarah Carothers
puddles@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<To WHAT law please? Who has the authority to say that no bodies are
allowed
to be put into the sea? It's not an unreasonable question, is it? "It's
true" isn't reference or documentation, and the claim was it was a law.
Sandra>
I don’t have time to go looking up a law for you. I saw it on the news at
the time of his death. That was good enough for me. If you need more proof,
I suggest you go find it.
Sarah Carothers

I was interested too. Guess I'll have to find it myself since the original
source can't help.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein

Joan Wilson

Paula wrote:
I agree. First, people were shocked that I "allowed" my then newborn to
almost 1 year old daughter be around her very sick grandfather who was
dying. Every day we went to his home to visit him. She and he had an
incredible relationship, and I am so glad that I didn't think his dying was
a reason to keep her away from him. My daughter was the only person he
would wake up out of his morphine stupor for - he asked for her kisses...

I held my grandfather-in-law's hand when he died. Me holding one hand and
my husband holding the other. Beautiful... so glad we were with him.>

I agree too! My 1st born son and I lived with my mother and I helped my
father take care of her when she was dying. My son was 3yrs old at the time
and we had lived with them about 2 yrs. before she died ... so he went
through the whole process. And I have always been so happy that I was there
for my parents and she was able to keep her dignity and be surrounded by
loving, caring family and not strangers.

> My son died inside of me during labor. I held him for 24 hours - while he
was dead. Many people were *appalled* that I did so... "How could she hold
that *dead* baby?" Why? Because he is my son. <

[Joan Wilson] I am so sorry to hear this. I would have done the same thing.
Yes, he is your son. Mine had the cord around he neck and was very blue,
but was revived (thank you).


> I believe that people not being able to talk about death (before or after
it happens), not being able to be with those who are dying or who are dead,
etc. is the reason so many who are grieving are left - abandoned, isolated,
and lonely - very difficult to bare *on top* of grief.

Also, I have been berated because Alexandria knew (and knows) so much about
her brother's death. Well, berated, too, because she was going to be at his
birth. Then again, just about everything we do is crazy to most people...
::: sigh :::

I could go on for hours about this subject...

~Paula <

Me too.

To me death is part of life, loving and learning. It is nothing that is to
be ashamed of ... we all must go through it someday it is as much a part of
life as birth, growing and living. It is the last thing we will do in this
lifetime. It is a bridge to be crossed with pride and a full heart.

Joan







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Honored Babies

Joan,

>To me death is part of life, loving and learning. It is nothing that is to
>be ashamed of ... we all must go through it someday it is as much a part of
>life as birth, growing and living. It is the last thing we will do in this
>lifetime. It is a bridge to be crossed with pride and a full heart.

You really couldn't have said this better. I have noticed, however, that
many people do not embrace birth, growing, and living either, so I guess I
shouldn't expect them to embrace death.

I am, too, so glad to hear your son was revived after birth!

Hugs,
~Paula